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Blitzer
02-17-2009, 20:12
Deployments Scrubbed from AF Promotions

(http://www.military.com/news/article/February-2009/deployments-scrubbed-from-af-promotions.html?ESRC=airforce.nl) http://images.military.com/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheadername1=Content-Type&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=image%2Fjpeg&blobheadervalue2=inline%3Bfilename%3Dlead_090211_Scrubbed.jpg&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1209979254055&ssbinary=true

February 11, 2009


Military.com|by Bryan Mitchell

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Imagine leading perilous convoys across Iraq's deadly streets for nearly a year and learning it won't mean squat when it comes time to compete for the senior master sergeant promotion board.

Or how about providing vital close-air support in Afghanistan and discovering it won't be included when a board decides whether to promote you to lieutenant colonel.

That's the reality scores of Air Force officers and senior NCOs are facing now that the Air Force, in a move sure to cause confusion -- if not outrage -- will be deleting deployment history from duty qualification briefs for officer selection and pre-selection, and from senior NCO evaluation briefs. The new policy will apply to all active-duty members as well as Reserve and National Guard Airmen.

"These changes will impact management level reviews, as well as officer and enlisted central selection boards," Air Force Lt. Col. John Giles, chief of Promotions and Evaluations at the Pentagon, said in a Feb. 4 Air Force release.

And the change is coming soon.

The deployment data will be scrubbed from evaluation briefs starting with the February 2009 senior master sergeant promotion board.

The June 2009 lieutenant colonel (line of the Air Force) and medical service corps promotion boards will be the next to be affected.

The Air Force release did not say who proposed the change, whether it is permanent, and why the change does not apply to junior enlisted Airmen. The Air Force did not respond to a series of questions from Military.com by post time, but the service says it will hold a media roundtable soon to provide additional details.

While many Airmen may consider service to the country, especially in a time of war, a reward in and of itself, there's also the unspoken recognition that deploying to a dangerous combat zone and spending months away from loved ones will enhance a career.

Now, the Air Force contends, it's too difficult to measure a deployment overseas against Airmen who support the so-called Global War on Terror from a stateside installation.

"Many factors have led to the recent change in policy, especially since deployments now take many forms across the Air Force," Giles said.
Many forms is another way of saying the Air Force was possibly having difficulty weighing the promotable merits of a chair-bound Airman who spends his days flying a Predator drone from the air-conditioned safety of a desert trailer against one who sprints to the flight line to make an emergency launch of an F-15 to drop 500-pound bombs on a Taliban ambush site.

"In addition to 'traditional' deployments, such as long-term deployments to the area of responsibility, some career fields such as space and missile and unmanned aircraft system operators do not typically deploy but provide daily support to the war on terrorism," the Air Force release states. "Many global mobility Airmen, as well as Guard and Reserve Airmen, do not spend 45 consecutive days in the Area of Responsibility (minimum requirement for documentation), but often deploy for more than 45 cumulative days within a calendar year."

Giles stressed that other documentation will demonstrate overseas deployments, including decoration citations, bullets on officer and enlisted performance reports, promotion recommendation form statements and letters to officer promotion boards.

"All of these are valid and important deployments," Giles stated, "but they are documented elsewhere in officer selection records and senior enlisted selection records."

But that may be little comfort to those Airmen who toil quietly far from home but close to danger, and who long assumed their sacrifice would boost their chances for promotion and all its benefits.


More bull**** for our troops! :wow::steamed:

b52ace
02-19-2009, 14:12
I would like to say it is unbelieveable, however....

AF-Odin
02-19-2009, 18:54
As the saying from my former life goes----YGBSM!!!!!

Seems like it was just a little over a year ago that my son-in-law was told that UNLESS he was able to get deployed (he had been volunteering for two years with no luck), he would not get promoted. Well, he did get deployed to iraq and upon return was promoted.

Do we want our AF to return to the days of those with the most Masters Degrees and corrospondence courses got promoted and those with the most flying hours and Arc Light tours got passed over?

bluelineman
02-21-2009, 09:41
Well, he did get deployed to iraq and upon return was promoted.

:thumbsup:

Do we want our AF to return to the days of those with the most Masters Degrees and corrospondence courses got promoted and those with the most flying hours and Arc Light tours got passed over?

Agreed.

Javelin
02-21-2009, 09:49
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........


:rofl:

meeko
02-22-2009, 07:34
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........


:rofl:


A lot more than you think. They are (have been for quite some time) utilizing a lot of Air Force troops to drive vehicles in 'hostile" areas on convoys. Two motor pool troops from the unit I just retired were in a pretty sustained firefight. They pulled their vehicle along side one that was disabled from incoming fire putting their vehicle between the incoming and the disabled vehicle. While one evacuatted the disabled vehicle the other only fired about 1,000 rounds out of a M249SAW.
And yes they got everyone out and back to base and yes the incoming fire quit.

Are there a lot of cake jobs in the AF. sure more than there should be however, not evreyone in the AF is a computer programmer either.

dewidmt
02-22-2009, 08:28
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........


:rofl:

I was riding convoy with the Seabees back in 2004...sittin right up there manning the M2....

Sam White
02-23-2009, 17:05
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........

Well, most of the vehicle maintenance guys from my base for starters.

deadday
02-23-2009, 17:07
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........


:rofl:

There are lots of them...Know any Combat Controllers? PJs? Security Forces?

MrMurphy
02-24-2009, 13:16
Yup.

I knew a SSgt from Transportation that had as many rounds downrange as many infantrymen. Two six month deployments running convoys, he had a lot of rounds through a M4, M249 and M240 against the bad guys.

Norman
02-24-2009, 13:32
At first, I thought this was unfair to those being deployed, but after reading the article, I can see the other side's argument, too. The Air Force does indeed have a substantial amount of people who are fighting "combat" from a distance, maybe not necessarily deployed to the front lines as we traditionally understand the front lines to mean with the Army, Marines, and even Navy.

Now, I understand the injustice to the guys who spend 12-18 months out there without seeing their families while the missile man on high alert back home does get to see his family, and how this affects what people will have to do for promotions, but there's no easy answer on this one.

Ralff
02-24-2009, 13:55
This article is referring to people trying to achieve the rank of SMSgt (E-8) or CMSgt (E-9). With lower ranks the ONLY things that affect promotion are time in, performance reports, test scores, and awards. If you deploy and get a medal it's only a couple of points anyway, unless you get the CMoH which is around 15 points.

Seniors and Chiefs have to go before a board for promotion, which is where deploying helps them. Or did I guess. In some career fields, senior enlisted cannot deploy, so I see where it is a concern.

deadday
02-24-2009, 14:36
At first, I thought this was unfair to those being deployed, but after reading the article, I can see the other side's argument, too. The Air Force does indeed have a substantial amount of people who are fighting "combat" from a distance, maybe not necessarily deployed to the front lines as we traditionally understand the front lines to mean with the Army, Marines, and even Navy.

Now, I understand the injustice to the guys who spend 12-18 months out there without seeing their families while the missile man on high alert back home does get to see his family, and how this affects what people will have to do for promotions, but there's no easy answer on this one.

The longest AF deployment I've heard of 1st or 2nd hand is 9 months, with the majority being 6 months.

Norman
02-24-2009, 15:47
The longest AF deployment I've heard of 1st or 2nd hand is 9 months, with the majority being 6 months.

Okay, I picked some numbers to make the point.

Stickler. :supergrin:

Sam White
02-24-2009, 15:49
When I was deployed I encountered some folks who were scheduled for one year. They were the minority, though.

MrMurphy
02-25-2009, 11:33
There's a lot of cops doing a 365 (1 yr). Friend of mine's rolling around Baghdad with the INP, doing mounted and dismounted patrols.

Granted, he's Security Forces, it is more or less part of the job, but most people don't know AF guys do ground combat.

Sam White
02-25-2009, 15:40
True. Lots of SF and others doing ground combat, and ILO taskings as well. Since I didn't interact much with SF, except going from one zone to another, my experience was with other LRS people who had worked with the Army.

There are desk jockeys in the AF, but that's not all the AF is.

98LS-WON
02-28-2009, 13:16
As the saying from my former life goes----YGBSM!!!!!


Do we want our AF to return to the days of those with the most Masters Degrees and corrospondence courses got promoted and those with the most flying hours and Arc Light tours got passed over?

BTW, they are unmasking education records. It's the Kinder, Gentler AF. Didn't you get the memo?

Skycop1
03-02-2009, 10:14
I'm an E8 and my last deployment was in 2005 (6 months). I have volunteered several times since then but there just are not that many E8 positions in my career field over there so I have not been back since then. I have completed a couple short missions (less then 45 days each) so they are not reflected on my SNCO surf (which I felt was wrong). I am OK with the new change as I feel it is the most just for all (as long as deployments are covered in EPR's or Decs).

*Paladin*
03-12-2009, 20:52
I am not sure how many Air Force folks are leading any convoys across hostile terrain........


:rofl:

I was a convoy commander. I convoyed over 9,000 miles of Iraq during OIF 5-6. Almost every one of my convoys had enemy contact in the form of IED's and small arms fire. We lost two of my friends to an IED (also AF SF). So I think I, an Air Force NCO, have led convoys across hostile terrain.:upeyes:

mbramsa
03-23-2009, 05:05
Are there a lot of cake jobs in the AF. sure more than there should be however, not evreyone in the AF is a computer programmer either.

Wow, the ignorance in this thread is astounding. I happen to be a computer programmer (3C072), I'm deployed to Afghanistan now providing commo support for a provincial reconstruction team. 5 months into a 9 month tour (plus 3 months of training beforehand) and I just passed 100 combat patrols. Unfortunately I earned a CAB and will be getting the AFCAM after March 15th when our lead truck hit an IED, we took small arms fire, and we lost 4 great guys one of whom was an AF vehicle maintainer.

So forget about your assumptions and elitist attitudes, there are a lot of guys performing unconventional AF missions right now.

EDIT - to stay on topic, I don't mind the deployments being removed from promotion consideration. I do think that if they do that they should raise or remove the limit on decoration points.