Sellier and Bellot 9 mm [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Outerlimits
03-28-2009, 11:17
Was at the range yesterday with my G17, the table next to me a guy was shooting a 9mm also. When he was leaving, he had 4 rounds left of 9mm and gave them to me. I was shooting Remington and stuck them in the foam tray in the box. The first thing I noticed is they were longer than the Remington 9mm in the tray. So I asked him what kind of ammo was it. He showed me the empty box and it was Sellier and Bellot. It said on the box 124 grain, fmj. said he gets it cheap and it runs fine in his guns. We shot side by side for an hour and I never saw any feed issues or fail to fire. I put them in a magazine and made sure they chambered alright and fired them. Seemed ok, just noticed a little more recoil than the Remington. Has anyone else shot this ammo. Just wondering if its me, or is it a hotter round. Didnt say +p on the box that I noticed.

Powder
03-28-2009, 11:28
Those chronoed faster in my G26 than the Winchester NATO 124gr. Never had any issues with them.

Boris Bush
03-28-2009, 11:30
+P is a buzz word. The S&B is loaded to C.I.P. spec. They have no so called +P spec and standard pressure 9x19mm ammo is loaded to 39,200 psi. The ammo you shot is more in line with the NATO pressure range which is hotter than vaginized so called "+P" 9mm ammo loaded in the USA. Try some european loaded Fiocchi, it is alot hotter too.

The box won't say +P, but if it were loaded here in the USA it would not even be able to be labeled +P, it is too hot. Supposedly:dunno:.

Keep shooting it, its better than the watered down crud we have available made here...........

Jim
03-28-2009, 12:14
OTOH, I had some S&B 115 gr fmj from about 2001 that chronographed slightly slower than 115 WWB. Go figure...

98_1LE
03-28-2009, 13:55
I have a shot a lot of .45acp S&B and really like it. Used to get it for $10 a box...

In the past 6-months I have shot 1k rounds of S&B 9mm, and have another thousand on the shelf. Wish I had a pallet of it.

http://i44.tinypic.com/28s1s2w.jpg


I am not familiar with C.I.P., but +P is a SAAMI thing.

Boris Bush
03-28-2009, 14:21
I am not familiar with C.I.P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l'Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives

Merkavaboy
03-28-2009, 15:40
S&B is some fine shooting ammo.

gunsnhoses
03-28-2009, 15:55
I have shot it and it is DEFINATELY hotter.

glocksterr
03-28-2009, 16:01
OTOH, I had some S&B 115 gr fmj from about 2001 that chronographed slightly slower than 115 WWB. Go figure...


i think its the 124gr. loaded to NATO

glock2740
03-28-2009, 17:46
It's always shot good for me out of my guns.

D-GLOCK17
03-28-2009, 18:03
Man, that is some good shooting, despite the 'flyer'!

fran m
03-28-2009, 19:29
Have some and shot it at an indoor range. It sparked when it hit the back stop which I believe is steel plate. The range officer said that it was copper jacketed steel core and did not want me to shoot any more of it because it would damage the backstop.

Shot fine in my G19. Did not seem hot.

Fran M

glocksterr
03-29-2009, 07:01
Have some and shot it at an indoor range. It sparked when it hit the back stop which I believe is steel plate. The range officer said that it was copper jacketed steel core and did not want me to shoot any more of it because it would damage the backstop.

Shot fine in my G19. Did not seem hot.

Fran M



the stuff i shoot is 124gr. in white box that says "range safe" and is not steel core. it has the C.I.P. stamp and is hot. not as hot as my carry HST 124gr.+P but close. without a croney it may just be recoil perception but...

Merkavaboy
03-29-2009, 12:14
Just a heads up; S&B does not have a steel core or it would fall under AP handgun ammo. Some of the ammo in 9mm, but not all, use a mild steel bullet jacket. Every sample 9mm load that I have that has a cupro-nickel (silver color) bullet jacket is magnetic, but none of the Range Safe loads have a steel jacket; only a steel case. The current S&B 9mm, when you can find it, should not have a mild steel bullet jacket. If they do, then it seems that S&B is doing so to cut costs by using less copper and more cheap steel.

BTW, I found the Range Safe 9mm quite accurate and totally reliable out of 1K that I've shot up.

tedg-23
03-29-2009, 12:26
Bought a case of it a couple years ago and wish I`d bought the whole pallet now. Good stuff!

Capt Obvious
03-29-2009, 19:04
The S&B is loaded to C.I.P. spec.

I have never heard of this term. Is there somewhere I can read more about it?

Also, how can you tell if ammo is loaded to "C.I.P. spec"?

Boris Bush
03-29-2009, 20:39
I have never heard of this term. Is there somewhere I can read more about it?

Also, how can you tell if ammo is loaded to "C.I.P. spec"?


Read here. The CIP web site is in French and I cann't read that crap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l'Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives

You can tell if ammo is loaded to CIP spec by reading the box. It will say C.I.P. on it somewhere. European ammo will always be loaded within CIP specs and CIP is well known to load some calibers to a much higher pressure limit. They also have no +P . Instead they have one limit. CIP 9mm pressure is 39,200. If S&B or Fiocchi is loaded to near the limit for CIP it will be loaded hotter than SAAMI +P rated ammo for 9mm.

98_1LE
03-30-2009, 10:15
FWIW the S&B 115gr 9mm I have has no steel in the projectile that my magnet can detect. The same magnet picks up Wolf 7.62x39 every time by the tip.

I don't mind shooting steel jacketed ammo through chrome lined bore AK's, but would not shoot it through a match pistol barrel on one of my range only pistols.

fran m
03-30-2009, 17:58
The stuff I was shooting was brass cased. The jacket looked like copper. I don't know if the bullet itself is magnetic, I'll check. The primer has red covering it, (sealer?).

It shot fine, never a problem. I suspect if the range officer was not on the ball he would not have noticed the sparking. I noticed it but thought nothing of it. I took his word that it was steel core. Is the bullet lead with some steel mixed in?

Fran M

Boris Bush
03-30-2009, 18:02
The stuff I was shooting was brass cased. The jacket looked like copper. I don't know if the bullet itself is magnetic, I'll check. The primer has red covering it, (sealer?).

It shot fine, never a problem. I suspect if the range officer was not on the ball he would not have noticed the sparking. I noticed it but thought nothing of it. I took his word that it was steel core. Is the bullet lead with some steel mixed in?

Fran M


The ammo you shot has a bi-metal jacket. Copper washed very soft steel. Regular S&B will have a brass jacket.

soulless
03-30-2009, 23:17
good stuff. shot like 100 rounds in my XD-9. First 9mm shot so i can't say if it's hotter than the other 9mm.

Blast
03-31-2009, 10:26
The ammo you shot has a bi-metal jacket. Copper washed very soft steel. Regular S&B will have a brass jacket.
Yep, brass jacket. I've been using S&B for years. It is hot. I compared the load to a few other brands. I removed bullets from S&B, Wolf, PMC, and WWB 9mm cartridges. The S&B was nearly full of powder. There was only about a millimeter of space between powder and base of bullet. Though there is a small "cup" in base of bullet. Wolf has no "cup", the others do.
The other cases had maybe 15-20% less powder than S&B.
Burn rate is comparable to PMC, just a tad slower than WWB, and faster than Wolf.

POLARBEAR
04-22-2010, 00:43
I have been shooting Sellier and Bellot 9mm in both the 115 and 124gr FMJ loadings for almost 20 years now and can only say good things about this ammo. S&B ammo is a little dirty, but it is cheap, loaded hot (at least compared to regular U.S. production FMJ), accurate, and has both a sealed case mouth and primer. I have fired about 20,000 rds of it through five firearms (Browning HP MK lll, G19, G26, Beretta 92 FS, and a Feather AT-9 carbine) and have had no problems whatsoever. I have experienced similar results with S&B loads in .357 Sig, .45 ACP, and 12 GA 00 Buck. Great range ammo! :cool:


:snoopy::usaf:

Disregarded9-side
04-22-2010, 21:48
in 9x19, I've heard over and over that this is the worst round on the market. I believe they're mildly odd dimensions.
I read this frequently over on Berettaforum. There was even a couple of posts of semi-serious failures (in Cougars I think).
...So, I really have no experience with it personally, I just avoid it like Bo-Tach.

Eyescream
04-22-2010, 22:23
I shoot S&B ammo a lot out of my revolvers and 1911. I like it quite a bit.