My girlfriend really upset me with this [Archive] - Glock Talk

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eclipse13
04-15-2009, 08:27
She was house sitting for a friend a few weeks ago. The house is set back away from the main roads and wasn't very secure (bottom floor is almost entirely windows). I offered to leave my 1911 with her for the week so that she would feel a little more secure (she has shot it, knows how to operate it, etc). She thought about it for a little while and responded with a no thanks. I asked why and she said that she doesn't think that she could shoot someone to defend herself. Then she claims that if it were to save me or one of our children (we don't have any yet, but we plan to) that she could do it, but if it were just her own life, she couldn't. I was shocked. I feel that this is a really twisted way to live. Not willing to defend your own life?

I've brought it up to her since then, but she just won't talk about it.

Blitzer
04-15-2009, 08:50
Lots of girls out there, maybe it is time to look for another one? :wow: :shocked: :dunno:

eclipse13
04-15-2009, 10:21
We have been together for 7 years and are planing to get married. I don't want to leave her, I just couldn't believe that she felt that way.

newglocker25
04-15-2009, 11:18
She isn't saying that her life is worthless to defend.

If anything, I agree with her logic. What she's trying to tell you is that she much rather defend when the stakes are high, and try to be defensive when she's alone.

Let's say someone robbed your house, and they held your children hostage. "Give me all your valuables or we'll kill them." Pretty different than if someone held a gun to you and said, "Give me all your valuables or I'll kill you."

JimBianchi
04-15-2009, 11:26
She just need some time to adjust to the mindset of self defense. Many people think they can drop the hammer when the time comes, most won't know they CAN'T until it is to late.

Don't give up on this girl. Get her to read some self-defense write-ups like what's in each issue of American Rifleman. There are lots of great resources, including a defensive pistol course that teach gunfight survival. Mindset is everything in a fight, she just hasn't been trained yet.

PinkCat33
04-15-2009, 11:47
This one is a hard one. For some reason I think some girls find it harder to justify defending themselves with a gun then guys do. I know this is silly because I think we actually have more reason to carry. I have fought with my self over this issue but deep down I know that if I had to shoot to defend myself I would. Just because she says that she wouldn't doesn't mean that if put into the situation she still wouldn't.

Don't give up on her yet with this issue. Give her time to work it out herself and get comfortable on her own. I found that going to the range a lot helped. If she cant pull the trigger when she needs too then she should not have the gun. That is a very important thing because it could be taken from her and used against her. I did not get one until I felt comfortable with shooting it and knew that I could use it if and when I ever had to defend myself.

Agent6-3/8
04-15-2009, 21:24
I agree with Jim. We all aren't born with the soul of a warrior. She may just need some teaching. I definitely suggest a talk with her, but in a non-judgemental way. The first thing she needs to understand is that her life is worth far more than that of anyone who would do her harm. Once she works that out, you can go from there.

JohnKSa
04-15-2009, 22:43
She needs to understand that self-defense is not just about staying alive, it's also about preventing serious crimes.

There is a good argument to be made that self-defense is not only a right, but it's also a responsibility. In the same way that she would defend another's life, she should also defend her own.

In other words, society tolerates killing in self-defense because it preserves civilization and underscores the importance and value of the life of each person who makes up that society. What a violent criminal does is diametrically opposed to everything civilized society considers important and as a result, society says that his life can be taken (if necessary) to prevent his illegal actions.

So you could say that you don't shoot a violent criminal because he's doing something that makes you mad/sad/scared, you shoot him because what he's attempting to do is extremely damaging to society as a whole. It may seem silly to think of it like that from the individual standpoint, but from the collective standpoint of society, that's exactly why it is tolerated.

Finally, the fact that she believes won't be able to bring herself to shoot someone in self-defense doesn't mean she should deny herself the means to do so if she changes her mind at the last minute.

RottnJP
04-16-2009, 00:08
Actually, I think the fact that she is thoughtfully considering the ramifications is a good thing, and she's probably a fairly smart, self-aware lady.

She also may not be at the same place as you in the self-defense continuum, but that's o.k. My Canadian-born wife was totally opposed to firearms in civilian hands, but eventually got to the point where she appreciated my CCW, and now wants to learn to handle a firearm safely. These things can take some time and patience. I would say, don't push it- that's a sure way to make her push back. It may be that you are the "protector" of the the two, and that's o.k.

fshalor
04-17-2009, 06:37
I'd recommend you send this site to your GF.
http://corneredcat.com (http://corneredcat.com/)

Good single resource for guns, mentality, introducing kids to firearms and safety.

I truly feel your pain. My wife made a very similar admission to me a few weeks ago as I was ramping up our defensive options. I wasn't entirely shocked, but

It may take a while. The angle I'm hoping to spin for is "protecting you is protecting us". If she's okay with me shooting a BG that comes through the door after her; that's step one. The concept that a BG through door gets shot is step two. Step three; doesn't matter who's holding the gun.

I don't think the decision of being ready to take another's life is a light one to make. Give her time to do her reading and thinking. Even if she hasn't made the decision 100%, if all the ground work is done, she'll still be prepared.

eclipse13
04-17-2009, 11:42
I appreciate all of the comments guys. I've shown her the cornered cat before and she has read some of it. I'm hoping to revisit this with her in the future, but I'm not sure when. She supports me carrying and doesn't have a problem with defend either me or her. Hopefully I can just take a slow steady approach and get her there eventually.

Bilbo Bagins
04-17-2009, 13:04
I don't think she is suicidal

I think like some others have said, I think she meant it as a " I would not shoot someone breaking into a house" vs. I would definately shoot someone who was hurting you or our kid."

My wife is very similar view. Sh would definately kill someone hurting our family , but she is real naivve to how bad the criminal element is. She thinks I'm paranoid owning guns, locking the door at night, and have a security alarm. She really thinks that she would not need a gun. Somehow she just going to get out another door, or she would just pick up a lamp, or smack the guy and he will run away. :dunno:

tbhracing
04-17-2009, 15:09
I am no Dr. Phil on this but here are my thoughts-

To me, maybe it is just a lack of time with the weapon. And can anyone of really give an answer to when it comes to pulling a trigger? Sure, all of us right now will say "No problem" and anything to defend myself.

For me- Owning and using a firearm has been a long journey with education, training and experience. I am in a differnt spot now than 10 years ago. I am thinking just offer the GF more time and experience and I am sure things will fall into place.

And trust me, I bang my head against the wall often when trying to discuss personal protection and firearms with women. Its a mixed bag and for the most part, a lack of education.

Hope I explained my thoughts accurately.

Cat91
04-17-2009, 18:28
Many of my friends are like this. I have heard repeatedly that refrain: "rather let the bad guy do what he wants than fight."

Not me. There are two kinds of people out there. There are predators...and there are prey. I refuse to be prey. I refuse to be a victim. I hope that if the bad man tries me, I have the guts to pull my piece and fight back. I think I will; I've been confronted on two occasions semi-recently with a stranger threat and I reacted with .40 in hand both times.

How did I get there? Stubbornness, I guess. My husband needs me, and I can't let him down by giving up. I can't let me down. I try to mentally prepare for a day I hope never comes again, where I have to pull a firearm in self defense. And I'm glad I didn't have to shoot, the times I already have.

Miao, Cat

blanbri
04-17-2009, 18:32
She isn't saying that her life is worthless to defend.

If anything, I agree with her logic. What she's trying to tell you is that she much rather defend when the stakes are high, and try to be defensive when she's alone.

Let's say someone robbed your house, and they held your children hostage. "Give me all your valuables or we'll kill them." Pretty different than if someone held a gun to you and said, "Give me all your valuables or I'll kill you."

You're thinking and hers is quite flawed. The above is very irrational.

RedLT4Mike
04-17-2009, 22:27
Well, keep working on her, but keep in mind that this is keeping you in business!

She has found her man with guns who will defend her from the bad guy.

Don't worry, she will come around.. Especially when kids come into play.
Mom has to live another day to take care of her babies!

dango
04-18-2009, 09:48
I think this mind set is much more common than is thought.I believe nobody really knows what one would do in a bad situation,me included.
I practice many things,placement,cover,awareness,failure drills and I think I'm ready but am I really ?Your lady,don't count her out. Spend more time
with her and get her comfortable and confident with the gun. Many people
(are) fearful of hand guns.Take notice next time you take a new shooter,
there is a high level of tension and anxiety.
I believe comfort gives birth to confidence and a more positive mind-set.

Mjames
04-18-2009, 10:06
My wife was the same way. Then we had kids. Now she has her concealed carry permit and has the mind set for it.

thunderbat
04-19-2009, 15:15
Kill or be killed? If you value your own life at all, it should not be a hard decision.

drz-400
04-19-2009, 20:02
:shocked:

LadyG23
04-21-2009, 06:26
Has she read Miss Kitty's post (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160158) in here?

Your GF might need a little more time to adjust to the thought of having a firearm on hand. She may not be comfortable with your 1911 and wants to pass it off as "not sure I can do this" instead of "I'm afraid that I won't be able to operate it at the time". Have you suggested a revolver to her? I am good with semi's, but my first choice is my revolver, as I know my mind will freeze if faced with an unpleasant situation, and my luck that's when the semi will jam or something like that. I had my Glock not work during a shooting test (bad ammo) and it totally threw me off - if it had been a BG situation, I"d been in trouble. Just a thought.

Mrs.Cicero
04-21-2009, 10:07
Bluntly, if she is not willing to kill to remain alive to mother her children, then perhaps she should not have any. Any mother who would choose to die out of some warped idea that it is better to die than defend oneself is unfit.

That is my highly non-PC view. There are kinder ways to get it across... if her own mother had chosen to die rather than defend herself, and your GF grew up without a mom because of it, how would she feel about that? Would she think her mom made the right decision? Or would she rather have had a living mother who had to shoot someone so she could live to see her kids grow up? I know I would want my mom alive, even if she had to kill someone to remain that way, rather than a dead mom and a living criminal. If you have no kids, you still have to ask which condition is better for this society - living defenders and dead criminals, or dead non-defenders and living criminals? DUH.
I don't have much respect for the "I couldn't shoot someone to defend myself" crowd, largely because I think they are the ultimate in selfishness. They rank their own discomfort with the idea of POSSIBLY killing someone (the criminal could survive the gunshot, just as long as he is stopped from harming you) as more important than the effects of their death on their family and friends. My family and friends are WAAAAY more important than some jacked-up freak who gets his jollies or feeds his habits by harming others. Which kinds of friends do YOU want?

Mrs.C

Glock26girl
04-23-2009, 01:28
I agree with everyone who said she might not be ready yet. People have different mindsets as they grow through life and to judge her so harshly for it seems unfair. Who knows, she might have just been being a bit melodramatic and just said the first thing that popped into her mind to get out of having to take the gun. The fact that she has shot your gun and has read Cornered Cat, shows that she is open to the idea of it. Perhaps if you had offered her your G23 or your Kel-Tec, she would have accepted it. She might just feel more comfortable with a smaller gun. I know I do.

FrogWithAGlock
04-24-2009, 01:09
Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by newglocker25 http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12743146#post12743146)
She isn't saying that her life is worthless to defend.

If anything, I agree with her logic. What she's trying to tell you is that she much rather defend when the stakes are high, and try to be defensive when she's alone.

Let's say someone robbed your house, and they held your children hostage. "Give me all your valuables or we'll kill them." Pretty different than if someone held a gun to you and said, "Give me all your valuables or I'll kill you."

</td></tr></tbody></table> You're thinking and hers is quite flawed. The above is very irrational.



I agree. And perhaps after a personal fireams class or two, she'll feel differently.

For me, I know I could defend my life, that of my husband, kids, extended family, etc.

It's not just about me. It's the fac that my kids have a mom who loves them. I may not be perfect, but they are my life. I would die for them, but by the same token , I will LIVE for them. They do NOT need to go through losing their mother. And if I have anything to say about it, they won't (until I am VERY old). 5% for ME (and I do value myself quite a bit) 95% for THEM.

Ulysses
05-03-2009, 12:44
Why are you with her 7 years and NOT married? Take responsibility for this woman. She is waiting for YOU to man up. Respect how she thinks.

kcb
05-03-2009, 15:16
This is a tough one.

As a woman that NEVER saw herself with a gun and didn't particularly ever want one in the house...I can relate.

I do own a gun now. I was always pro-gun. But I had children and feared that someone would bank on the fact that they could overpower me and use my gun against me and my precious children.

The world has changed a LOT since I was young and very naive.

NOW, I believe that I could shoot to protect my children, my husband, my mother, or anyone else that I love.

I BELIEVE that with all of my heart, because I can't imagine my life without them...and I know that they feel the same way about me, without a doubt in my mind.

BUT, I don't think I'll KNOW for CERTAIN until I'm in that situation and I PRAY that I am NEVER in either situation, when it comes to just me.

Like Agent (I believe) said, a woman doesn't necessarily have that "warrior instinct" that men seem to be born with.

I KNOW that I don't. I KNOW that I was raised to be a lady and to be protected by my man. That was how my Daddy believed it should be. He DID teach me skills to take care of myself "in case you HAVE to" (colllege, etc.). But he raised me to depend on a man.

Accepting to learn to want a gun, learn to shoot it, and the mindset that I CAN do it if ever necessary has taken me a very long time.

Be patient.

She hasn't held her baby in her arms yet. That "killer instinct" sets in any "lady" when she feels that Love for the first time. There is no greater protective instinct in the world than that of a mother's love.

eclipse13
05-03-2009, 15:53
Why are you with her 7 years and NOT married? Take responsibility for this woman. She is waiting for YOU to man up. Respect how she thinks.

Umm, we were 14 when we met. We are waiting for me to graudate college before I propose.

dugo
05-04-2009, 07:30
kcb, thank you for your post. (!)

And, Eclipse, don't let 'em rush you. My wife and I also waited over 7 years, now married 20 years and going good. You can be too fast or too slow. Most important is really timing.

INteresting comparison with my wife. She's just as sweet as they come, but if needed she could probably drop a hammer faster than I would. (Maybe I feel I have more viable options, but whatever.)

Someone coming at you with violence is not too different in essence from any natural disaster. House fire, flash flood, tornado, you do what you reasonably can to survive. That's the rationalization. Once you get that, it's a matter of dealing with emotions.

There's a natural reluctance to hurting another human being. (Appears to be instinctive with most higher species, and a good thing, mostly.) I think being able to leap across that reluctance if necessary is largely the psychological part of survival. Some people have to learn to truly accept the situation as it really is, bypassing the denial stage ("he'll stop", or "this can't be happening", etc.), and engaging reality honestly as it unfolds. And, it has to be accepted in the moment.

As others have suggested here, reading true accounts can be helpful. Also, starting with less-lethal aspects of training (awareness, avoidance stategies, less-lethal weapons, unarmed self-defense, etc.) not only provides essential skills but increase a person's ability to perceive situations accurately in the moment.

Most importantly, they increase a person's own trust in their own moment-to-moment judgment, so that they tend to bypass that denial phase and more easily accept what is actually happening -- including the consequences of non-action. I think that's a large part of being able to respond appropriately to events as they unfold.

copsgirl
05-06-2009, 19:28
I was raised with guns and don't think I would have any problem shooting someone to defend my life. But I am very comfortable with guns. Maybe it is a comfort issue for her. Take her shooting often and get her comfortable with guns. That may make the difference.