Memory problem of some sort... Need Help! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 13:10
Running an HP Pavilion z4230 laptop with MS XP Home SP2, IE6.

Just installed two Kingston 512 meg PC4200 chips a few weeks ago and things have been running fairly well, except for two issues that have been popping up in the past week or so. This first problem also happened before putting the new memory in when it had only 512K.

1. (Not verbatim)... "Virtual Memory was low and Microsoft is making the necessary adjustments...", etc. That happened last Sun and Monday night a few days after putting the new memory in.

2. Just last night we got this: "Qx771b3670 reference memory at Ox73bd01d4. The memory could not be read at IExplore.exe."

In the past 24 hours I've run multiple CrapCleaner scans, including the Registry scan, a Malwarebytes Anti-Malware full scan, and a full AVG scan. Nothing nasty was found other than a tracking cookie and the "normal" stuff.

Just ran Belarc Advisor and both of the new chips are read/ID'd, for what it's worth.

Just after lunch today a little pop up box showed itself with this: "Stack Overflow at Line 198".

Does all this relate to a registry corruption, even though CCleaner isn't showing any particular issues with it?

Any idea what's going on here, and what should I do next? :dunno:

As info, for the most part, only Outlook 2003 and IE6 have been run, with 'Facebook' being the primary web site being perused by my wife.

Thanks!

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 14:15
How much space do you have allocated for virtual memory?

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 14:22
I'll have to go look it up, but I reset it to just about the max allowed about 3 weeks ago when the first VM message popped up...

Correction - I find it's set for 1200 MB out of a max allowed of 1437 MB. It was not set for "System Set". I've changed that now to allow "System Set", but that still only gives it another 20% of VM.

Does Facebook hog that much memory? My wife uses the laptop and often has 3-4 Facebook pages open in IE, sometimes with Outlook 2003 open, sometimes not.

It's a 40 GB hard drive. Not all that big, but inasmuch as I often run twice as much on my 9 year old desktop with only 392 MB of RAM and a 60 GB HD, she should be in good shape I would think.

I did download the new AVG 8.5 about a week and a half ago or so. Might that be creating any issues if it didn't load right?

Had a bugger of time to get Belarc Advisor to load up last night. It kept hanging at 96% and freezing up. Ended up having to reboot 2 or 3 times before things cleared.

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 14:47
Check your startup folder and MSCONFIG and disable everything that you absolutely do not need loading every time your system starts. If you have the hard disk space available increase your virtual memory. I usually set the systems I configure to 2048 min - 4096 max ... no matter how much RAM is installed.

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 14:51
Does Facebook hog that much memory? My wife uses the laptop and often has 3-4 Facebook pages open in IE, sometimes with Outlook 2003 open, sometimes not.
You can check the amount of resources they are using by doing a Ctrl - Alt - Delete and look under the processes tab.

I did download the new AVG 8.5 about a week and a half ago or so. Might that be creating any issues if it didn't load right?Are you having any problems with it? Does it update and scan correctly?

CitizenOfDreams
04-22-2009, 14:52
Sounds like unstable RAM to me. Sometimes you just have to downclock your memory to make it reliable. Memtest 86+ (http://www.memtest.org) is a good free program to test it.

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 15:02
First thing I should have asked Ö are you sure that the memory is compatible with the system? You said that the first problem also happened before putting in the new memory, did you replace the old chip or is it still in the system?

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 15:02
A couple of things:

1. Check... I have turned off everything not really needed via MSCONFIG. That's been done for awhile and I normally check it occasionally on all three PC's to make sure nothing has snuck in.

2. Check... I believe there's only about 6+ GB of available HD space left right now, but should be enough to double the VM space if you say the "stated max" isn't an issue.

3. Am uninstalling AVG 8.5 and will reinstall AVG 8.0 since I've read comments this past week where some people were having some issues with the 8.5. Just a shot in the dark.

4. Just a few minutes ago my wife got this error pop-up:

SL1.tmp - Fatal Error
CLR error.800700cl
The program will now terminate.

She was in the middle of pasting a picture into an Outlook email while MS Updater was trying to install an update of .Net Framework or whatever in the background. We shut off the update, etc.

My big question is 'what is creating this sudden memory problem?' I'd suspect the new Kingston RAM, but the VM issue started before they were installed.

Should I bother reinstalling the old chips to see what happens? Or is there some other diagnostic programs I should run?

Thanks!

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 15:06
You can check the amount of resources they are using by doing a Ctrl - Alt - Delete and look under the processes tab.

Are you having any problems with it? Does it update and scan correctly?
I have not noted any specific problems with AVG 8.5. It did run it's scheduled scan on Monday night (takes about 5 hours or so?) and found one tracking cookie.

Sounds like unstable RAM to me. Sometimes you just have to downclock your memory to make it reliable. Memtest 86+ (http://www.memtest.org) is a good free program to test it.
I have not run Memtest 86+ because everything seemed like it was running well after install.

First thing I should have asked Ö are you sure that the memory is compatible with the system? You said that the first problem also happened before putting in the new memory, did you replace the old chip or is it still in the system?
To verify which chips to buy, I called Kingston Tech/CS and specifically ordered the chip they told me to (the HP/Compaq specific one) from Newegg. I verified the SKU number before I installed it. Both chips are new and matched. I've got the old matching OEM chips in the drawer here.

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 15:13
I believe there's only about 6+ GB of available HD space left right now, but should be enough to double the VM space if you say the "stated max" isn't an issue.



A hard drive that is close to being full can cause Windows to act strangely, and it will slow down or interfere with virtual memory operations. 6 GB is not a lot of free space when you start opening/loading programs.

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 15:15
A hard drive that is close to being full can cause Windows to act strangely, and it will slow down or interfere with virtual memory operations. 6 GB is not a lot of free space when you start opening/loading programs.

Let me take a look at what I can strip from it. I'm sure since it's my wife that uses it 98% of the time I can delete my programs. Be back...

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 16:09
Well, I just deleted over 2 GB of programs and rebooted, but it still only shows 5.5 GB of open HD space... started with 5.1...???

I'll finish cleaning it up and defrag it tonight and let you know where I'm at in the morning.

Please feel free to make any other suggestions or recommendations.

Thanks, Guys!

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 16:34
When you install updates from Windows Update, backup folders are created for the files that were replaced during the update. These are created so that you can easily uninstall a particular Hotfix, if it causes problems with your system. Here is a utility that will allow you to safely delete them Ö

http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_hotfix_backup.htm


You can run reclaim some disk space by running Disk Cleanup and remove all but the last restore point. (More Options tab)



Download, install and run CCCleaner Ö

http://www.majorgeeks.com/CCleaner_Slim_No_Yahoo_Toolbar_English_d4191.html

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 17:22
I finished deleting all unnecessary programs and got up to 6.4 GB. Will run defrag tonight. There's 7+ GB of frag'd space so if nothing else it will clean it up a little.

Will work on the utility and Disc Cleanup. Didn't know about being able to delete the Restore points... that's good to know.

Got CCleaner... "CCis my friend"!

Can you believe I got into a major argument with the IT Mgr where I worked last because I wanted to use CC to clean up my laptop and he felt I was introducing a corrupt, illegal program into the system? He was a complete ****** and failed to realize it. The guy never did figure out why none of the other managers would talk to him unless required to. :upeyes: :supergrin:

Sgt. Schultz
04-22-2009, 17:38
I forgot about this ...

http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/index.shtml

... TreeSize Free, with this you will be able to see where all your disk space has gone.

Obi Wan
04-22-2009, 17:46
I forgot about this ...

http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/index.shtml

... TreeSize Free, with this you will be able to see where all your disk space has gone.

Some cool software on that link, especially this 'TreeSize Free'. That will be helpful on a couple of drives I've got. Thanks!

JimmyN
04-23-2009, 11:57
Check System Information to see how much memory is listed.

It should match the memory you installed, if not something is not being recognized or you may have a bad memory stick.

It doesn't sound like a drive, registry, or anti-virus problem to me.

Obi Wan
04-23-2009, 15:37
System Info checked again and both sticks appear to be reading fine, i.e., 980+/- MB (two 512 MB sticks - base system requirements).

In checking various programs vs. system performance monitoring, things looked fairly good for the most part until "something" kicked in even though I closed things down. It was running about a base of 25-30% with "nothing" but the base system on. I disabled the Internet and 'Bingo', it dropped to 1-2%. That seems to indicate another tracking cookie or something, so ran another CCleaner scan and my wife is running AVG now.

I'm at the point where I think Sgt. Shultz is right in that the HD is/was filling up, the VM was a bit low, and my wife's activities on Facebook just taxed the system capabilities. Facebook is a processing/memory hog from what I can see, and then toss in these occasional tracking cookies and things go from sluggish to dead-in-the-water real quick.

Still need to run through the folder tree to delete stuff that isn't needed on that laptop since I've got a lot of the same stuff on my networked PC HDD's, etc.

Will keep you posted.

Thanks!

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 08:10
Like previously sugested on here I would download a Memtest86 cd http://www.memtest86.com/ and run it for a few hours to see if your new memory is throwing errors. If it is you will need to RMA your memory to get some new ones, even thought it appears to be working it could still be faulty. There is always the possiblity of bad memory even new out of the box, most electronic devices have a 15% fail rate when new.

Obi Wan
04-24-2009, 08:35
Like previously sugested on here I would download a Memtest86 cd http://www.memtest86.com/ and run it for a few hours to see if your new memory is throwing errors. If it is you will need to RMA your memory to get some new ones, even thought it appears to be working it could still be faulty. There is always the possiblity of bad memory even new out of the box, most electronic devices have a 15% fail rate when new.
I actually ran Memtest86 this morning, although I only let it run through a couple of times after it kept passing. According to the instructions, if it passes 1x it should be OK, but I can see your point about letting it run for a few hours.

I did this at 5:45 am this morning when my wife woke me up to tell me she got a "Blue Screen" when she booted up this morning. For some crazy reason she's gotten addicted to waking up anytime after 4:30 am and having coffee while checking her mail and Facebook account. I felt like locking her outside this morning when she got me up... :supergrin:

Anyway, if you let it run "for hours", how do you know if it didn't pass every time? I don't recall from this morning if there is an "error counter" or something.

As for this morning, the blue screen I got said the following:

NTFS.sys
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

Disable new software/hardware.
Disable BIOS memory options such as caching or shadowing.

Use SAFE mode if necessary.

*** STOP: 0x00000050 (0xF06B0000, 0x00000000x 0xF749708A, 0x00000000)

*** NTFS.SYS - Address F74970000, Datestamp 45cc56a7

Beginning dump of physical memory
I proceeded to reboot, which was slow, and then undid what I did yesterday...

I reset the VM back to the recommended min of 1437 MB with a max of 2048 (2x RAM of 1024), and uninstalled AVG 7.5. I only installed AVG 7.5 because of the "coincidence?" of these problems beginning about the time I had installed AVG 8.5 a few weeks ago. I didn't think either were really at fault, but I'll reinstall 8.5 as soon as I know what's causing what and it settles down.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? I've got the old memory sticks available to reinstall, but I had VM problems when they were in so I'm not convinced the RAM is the problem... yet. :cool:

??? :dunno:

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 09:09
You are right about one pass generally being enough however from the memtest faq's
"The time required for a complete pass of Memtest86 will vary greatly depending on CPU speed, memory speed and memory size. Memtest86 executes indefinitely. The pass counter increments each time that all of the selected tests have been run. Generally a single pass is sufficient to catch all but the most obscure errors. However, for complete confidence when intermittent errors are suspected testing for a longer period is advised."

This is why I am sugesting letting it run for an hour or two intermittent problems may not show up on the first pass. You might also want to make sure the timings are setup correctly if your bios allows you to change them. But with the restrictive bios'es on boxed pc's it probably won't. Also in memtest make sure you select as many tests as it will allow to put strain on the memory to hopefully reproduce your errors. It will show up as a non pass on the counter if it encounters an error. If its a windows problem a reinstall might be your best option. VM errors are usually caused by windows not allocating enough VM but you should have solved that already by setting it yourself. I would also make the VM allocation the same for inital size and maximum size.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 10:00
Do a clean install of the OS and only install the programs that you absolutely canít live without and then run it for a week and see what happens. I still feel the lack of disk space is causing your problems Ö you stated that you had problems before installing the new memory so it has to be something else.

Obi Wan
04-24-2009, 10:51
You might also want to make sure the timings are setup correctly if your bios allows you to change them. But with the restrictive bios'es on boxed pc's it probably won't.
.
.
I would also make the VM allocation the same for inital size and maximum size.
What "timings" are you referring to in the BIOS? It's been awhile since I messed around in one and don't recall.
Do a clean install of the OS and only install the programs that you absolutely canít live without and then run it for a week and see what happens. I still feel the lack of disk space is causing your problems Ö you stated that you had problems before installing the new memory so it has to be something else.
This is about a 6 year old HP Pavilion laptop... need to see if I've got the original discs since I bought it used. If not, will it be any issue if I just use my XP Home disc from my other PC? Do HP/Compaq machines require specific HP/Compaq software in addition to MS's?

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 11:27
Your ram sticks will have numbers listed on them like 3-3-2.5cl ....these are the timing settings. I just checked on my HP zv5320 which is a bit newer than yours and it didn't have any timing settings in the bios so I doubt yours does. To reinstall windows you'll need a HP specific Xp Cd in order to use the windows key that is stored in your laptops bios (the key on the bottom is not an installation key). If you don't have the proper cd or don't want to pay HP for one you can aquire it from elsewhere. Also you need to go to HP's site and download all the drivers for your specific model of laptop before the reinstall as the XP cd by itself will not have the ones you need.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 12:31
To reinstall windows you'll need a HP specific Xp Cd in order to use the windows key that is stored in your laptops bios What??? Since when is the Windows key stored in the system BIOS?



the key on the bottom is not an installation key Of course the key on the Windows sticker on the bottom of the laptop is the installation key and he will need it to activate the OS.

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 12:38
What??? Since when is the Windows key stored in the system BIOS?



Of course the key on the Windows sticker on the bottom of the laptop is the installation key and he will need it to activate the OS.


Most oem's Such as Dell/HP/Compaq Store the Key in the bios it's actually a VLK key that allows them to use a single image at the factory and have the system preactivated what is interesting is it has multiple keys built in for Home/Pro/MCE. The key on the bottom is a license for whatever version ships with the computer but not an installation key. They also started doing this because of people stealing the keys off the bottoms of laptops or sides of towers in stores and schools etc.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 12:53
Most oem's Such as Dell/HP/Compaq Store the Key in the bios it's actually a VLK key that allows them to use a single image at the factory and have the system preactivated. The key on the bottom is a license but not an installation key. They also started doing this because of people stealing the keys off the bottoms of laptops or sides of towers in stores and schools etc.I've got a room full of laptops, 6 HP's, 6 Dell's, 6 Gateways and 14 Compaq's of various models. All of these have been wiped and I am in the process of reinstalling the OS on each of them for a local company to sell to their employees after they ungraded their inventory. None of them have the Windows key in the BIOS, or have I ever seen one that does, the Dells and Gateways have the system tag but that is not needed to install the OS.

I don't have a restore CD/partition for any of these laptops, I called M$ and explained the situation, I gave them the key numbers from each and they provided me with replacement keys for each to use when I install the new OS.

As long as you have the key on the Windows sticker you have a valid license to use Windows.

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 13:01
You can install with the key off the bottom but you will have to contact MS to activate or you can just go to MSDN if you have access and get the oem key. Or if you use the branded disc it will be preactivated just like from the factory (I used to work as a dell tech) It won't display the key to you in the bios unless you have an old latitude or you have a bios tool. But trust me they are there (hidden) if you do use a branded cd it won't even ask you for a key as it gets it from the bios (the branded cd's are sysprepped to query for it) If you don't belive me aquire a branded cd for whatever make from torrents or wherever as long as its specific to the brand it will install with no key's inputed from you.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 13:09
You can install with the key off the bottom but you will have to contact MS to activate or you can just go to MSDN if you have access and get the oem key. Or if you use the branded disc it will be preactivated just like from the factory (I used to work as a dell tech) It won't display the key to you in the bios unless you have an old latitude or you have a bios tool. But trust me they are there (hidden) if you do use a branded cd it won't even ask you for a key as it gets it from the bios (the branded cd's are sysprepped to query for it)Yes branded or corporate cd need no key, as for the key in the system BIOS I will have to see it before I believe it. Hidden pages in the BIOS are no secert and one only need to use Google to find the keyboard shortcut to get into it. I've access the hidden pages in system BIOS and I've never seen a Windows key in them.

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 13:39
If I can find the power adaptor for my old latitude c640 I'll show it to you. This is how early cracked versions of Vista came about with the fake bootloader that replicated the OEM bios.

JimmyN
04-24-2009, 13:48
NTFS.sys
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

That stop error error occurred in an area of memory that can't be paged out. The system encountered a fault, tried to recover, but could not find the info in physical memory.

That is usually faulty hardware, and could be system ram, cpu cache, or video memory. But since it came from NTFS.sys it could also occur with corrupt a NTFS file system, a corrupted system service, or even AV software.

We need to see if we can get a little more info from Windows.

Right click on 'My Computer' and select 'Manage'
Under 'Event Viewer' in the left pane you want to scan the 'Applications' and 'System' entries for error events that occurred on the time/day you had a problem.

Stop events will be errors rather than warnings, look for the red entries with an X. Right click and select 'Properties' for information about that error. You may find one or more warnings, that it recovered from, followed by a stop error when it finally failed.

So look over the errors in your event listings and see if you can find any clues there. You should be able to find out if it is an application, drive error, or system failure.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 13:57
If I can find the power adaptor for my old latitude c640 I'll show it to you. This is how early cracked versions of Vista came about with the fake bootloader that replicated the OEM bios.

Actually that wouldnít be a problem for me; I have a multipurpose laptop adapter that I had made by out of a voltage controller. Youíd be surprised how many customers forget the power brick. So as long as I have a plug that will fit Iím good to go.


FWIW: I have a corporate CD (actually the client owns it) that will install Windows XP Pro on any brand of computer that itís used on as long as we donít exceed his licensing (honor system) agreement. There is no need to contact M$, no online activation, no key involved, period.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 14:01
NTFS.sys PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

That stop error error occurred in an area of memory that can't be paged out. The system encountered a fault, tried to recover, but could not find the info in physical memory.

That is usually faulty hardware, and could be system ram, cpu cache, or video memory. And it can also happen when you run out of hard disk space, which the user has already stated he is doing ...

epoxy252
04-24-2009, 14:04
Lol yeah I have an infamous Corp cd from when I was in school that will install on any computer also. The branded cds a a different beast altogether they are normal oem cd's with a sysprep added to query the bios. If you stick them into a non dell or whatever computer it will ask you for the key and use a OEM key if you have one.

JimmyN
04-24-2009, 14:23
Since you have changed the size of your page file, and I noticed the system changed it once as well, you might want to defrag your pagefile.sys (virtual memory)

It can't hurt, and will make your system run better anyway. I usually defrag the registry and page file first before I defrag the drive each time. That will keep your pagefile and registry in good order.

Defragmenters can not work on the paging file, as it is open, locked and in use anytime Windows is running. That is the sections usually marked as green in defraggers, system files that can't be moved, or defragmented.

A page file defragger has to run on reboot, before Windows starts up.
Here is a link to a good page file and registry defragger.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897426.aspx

JimmyN
04-24-2009, 14:29
And it can also happen when you run out of hard disk space, which the user has already stated he is doing ...

OK, it's a lack of hard disk space, I surrender.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 14:41
Since you have changed the size of your page file, and I noticed the system changed it once as well, you might want to defrag your pagefile.sys (virtual memory)

It can't hurt, and will make your system run better anyway. I usually defrag the registry and page file first before I defrag the drive each time. That will keep your pagefile and registry in good order.

Defragmenters can not work on the paging file, as it is open, locked and in use anytime Windows is running. That is the sections usually marked as green in defraggers, system files that can't be moved, or defragmented.

A page file defragger has to run on reboot, before Windows starts up.
Here is a link to a good page file and registry defragger.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897426.aspxI agree ... I've always turn off the pagefile and disable everything that loads at startup and reboot before I defrag, that way you defrag the entire hard drive.

Sgt. Schultz
04-24-2009, 14:49
OK, it's a lack of hard disk space, I surrender.Just saying that he's spent days and tried everything else and he still has the problem, time for a clean install. A hard drive that is close to capacity will cause Windows errors and interfere with virtual memory operations and he had the errors before the new memory was installed.