What brand of bow should I get? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glockster96
09-25-2002, 22:19
Alright guys and gals, educate me on bows. My buddy has talked me into buying a bow and and hunting whitetails with him this year. Right now all that I have is a whole bunch of enthusiasm and very little info. ;)

He suggested either a High Country or a Matthews bow. Are these high quality bows, or is there better ones available. I am very particular about the gear that I buy, so please steer me in the right direction. My friend has a High Country that I have shot; it seems nice, but I don't know jack about bows.

Also if you could tell me your preferences on single vs. double cam, split vs. regular arms, 65% vs. 80% let-off, etc., I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!:)

ithaca_deerslayer
09-26-2002, 12:22
It's been a while since I bought a new bow, so I don't know what the hot products are out there.

But what you should do is find yourself a good archery store. The kind of place that will let you step out their backdoor to shoot a bow, or has their own little range.

You will rely on their expertise to fit you out right to start with.

I don't know what level of starting knowledge you have. Do you, for example, know your draw length? If not, they will help you figure it out.

There are so many things to choose from and so many variables involved:
I have 65 pound York bow with 65% letoff double cams, and 30.5 inch draw. I use a lighted pinsight for 20 yards, and then another unlighted pin for 30 yards. I have a Peepsight on the string, with a knock that twists the peepsight into alignment as I draw. I shoot 2 fingers below the knock, and one above--wearing either an archery glove or field leather glove. At full-draw, I hook my thumb under the rear edge of my jawbone, and index finger's hand knuckle touches my earlobe, and tip of my nose touches the string. Arrows are Easton 2117, 31 inch, 130 grain tips, with cock feather to the left (I'm right handed). Rest is a plunger in the riser, with a spring arm off to the side. Quiver is mounted on the riser, and is detachable. Also have a short stabilizer.

Just like with shooting if you change any one of those variables, the arrow's flight will change. So, it is not really a matter of finding the best, but more a matter of finding a setup that is comfortable and allows you to shoot the same way everytime.

In general, it is nice when you break a bow (meaning draw past the letoff point) that you hit a good solid wall (meaning the point where the letoff ends, the end of the draw). The biggest advantage of a compound over a recurve, in my opinion, is that wall. The wall helps you draw the exact same length each time--which helps you to release with the exact same velocity each time. Your "anchor point" helps (thus my description of where my hand is in relation to my face), and you also establish an anchor point when drawing a recurve, but a good wall makes it easier to determine how far back to draw the bow. You want the "wall" and your natural anchor point to match. Variations in the draw length and design of the bow will have an effect on your ability to set your anchor point at the same point the wall is felt.

Typically, shooters of compounds will go to that wall and then rest while aligning sights and waiting for the right moment to release. You do not want any variation in how far you have the string drawn back while this time elapse. Some creep back is the natural tendancy, but a good fit of the wall to your anchor point will minimize the creep and thus minimize variation in velocity. The recurve is obviously harder to hold back for any length of time, but the real challenge is finding the exact same release point each time.

I mention these issues concerning the wall and the draw length and the anchor point because this stuff has to do with the bow itself. Add to this also the issue of release. You have to decide how you want to release the arrow. Fingers? Mechanical? Important to have the bow set up to the way you shoot it. For example, my bow's draw length is too long for me to get a good anchor on a mechanical release. Instead, it was setup with finger shooting in mind.

My 2 cents.

ithaca_deerslayer
09-26-2002, 12:30
Also, check out http://www.eastonarchery.com/
In their downloads section, the have some useful guides, especially the one on tuning. These are large PDF files, that may give you trouble depending upon your connection speed. The tuning guide is hard to print out, because of size. One trick is do not print the first page, because that is essentially just a large graphic image.


Here is another good archer website
http://www.archeryinfonet.com/
Scroll down page and look on the left side for discussion forums.

glockster96
09-26-2002, 17:08
Thanks Ithaca. Lots of good info.:)

Big_Jim
09-26-2002, 20:15
I have always shot Martin bows but I recommend Browning bows. That may sound like a wierd statement but let me explain. I have always liked the Ted Nugent Ultimate Beast bow and the Gonzo Safari bow. I like Ted but the bows have been good to me and are easy to work on. But, when I got bows for my wife, daughter, both brothers and dad, I had them get Browning bows, also my recurve is a Browning and my next compound will be a Browning. Because... The Browning line of bows are priced right, top quality, easy to adjust, fast, accurate and the Browning service dept has always been top notch. I used to be up on all the latest stuff when I worked in a bow shop, now I just work on my own stuff and I've been happy with the Browning products.

Hokie3
09-26-2002, 23:04
IMHO, Mathews is the Glock of the bow world. They are a little more expensive than most, but you get what you pay for. I would recommend that you shoot as many different bows as you can and find the one that you like best wether it be Mathews, Hoyt, Browning, etc. The first time I shot my Mathews Legacy, I knew it was the bow for me. It was so smooth and steady! Check out this website as you will find many other suggestions and tips for setting up your bow. I don't know what I would have done without access to this site. http://forum.hunting.net/bbs
Hope this helps!
-Rob

Fox
09-27-2002, 00:02
My brother David uses a High Country bow. He does well every year with it.

ithaca_deerslayer
09-27-2002, 08:23
Originally posted by Hokie3
Check out this website as you will find many other suggestions and tips for setting up your bow. I don't know what I would have done without access to this site. http://forum.hunting.net/bbs
Hope this helps!
-Rob

Hey, that's a great site! Thanks for mentioning it.

glockster96
09-27-2002, 08:50
Thanks for all the good info. Keep em comin. :)

WFR
09-27-2002, 16:22
Any opinions on Parker bows?
I like Matthews but can buy Parker at a discount at work.

glockster96
09-27-2002, 21:02
Well, I just got done "test-driving" some bows tonight.

So far, the one that I like the most is the Matthews Icon.

I also tried a Hoyt bow. It was very nice, but was over $600. ;P

I tried several Matthews, Browning and HCA bows, but the Icon just seemed to be the one that felt the best. :)

I haven't purchased anything yet, so keep the advice coming. ;f

Hokie3
09-28-2002, 22:36
The Icon is a sweet bow too. If that's what you like, don't waste any more time. I guarantee you'll be happy with it. Mathews makes a great bow. If they have any High Country's, shoot those too...a lot of people seem to like them as well. Good luck!

badbilly429
09-29-2002, 00:55
glockster96, when it comes to bows, there is MATHEWS SOLO CAM, and all the rest.

i prey you dont waste money buying other bows only to wish you would have bought the mathews first like i did. they are exspensive, but its the first and last bow you will ever buy more than likely. decent deals running on ebay for them lately. i just picked up a sq2 and i love it....very short very small and very light.

Backstop
09-30-2002, 23:02
At least in my part of the country let-off is dictated by law, so you should check your local laws before buying.
I am a new bow hunter this year and have enjoyed shooting my new PSE Nova. It was pretty inexpensive but shoots pretty flat out to 40-50 yards and came fully equiped for less than $250.00 (no sales tax here either). I love rifle hunting, but 'flicking sticks' is a blast too!;a

ithaca_deerslayer
10-01-2002, 08:49
Originally posted by Backstop
shoots pretty flat out to 40-50 yards

Just curious here. Let's assume you ideally want to hit a 3 inch diameter target. Take and set a bowsight at 20 yards to hit that target. Now step out to 30 yards, does that same bowsight still alow you to hit the 3 inch target? At 40 yards? At 50 yards?

I guess it is possible, but 40+ yards is long freakin' way in the bowhunting I've done.

badbilly429
10-01-2002, 10:27
ive got my new mathews sq2 set up with a 4 pin tru glo sight, its set up for 20,30,40,50 yds once you get past 30 yards, shooting at 40 and 50 is tough, you have to practice a ton, but i did just put a peep sight elimnator on my bow, and that emensly helped me with the longer shots, ive got 5" 3 arrow groups at 50 yards, and of course the new tritium pins help out a ton also.

ithaca_deerslayer
10-01-2002, 10:48
Badbilly, if I understand you correctly, you are hitting those distances using different pins. That makes sense. Part of the difficulty is in knowing the yardage the deer is at, and thus the correct pin to use.

But flat shooting out to 50 yards, the way I understand it, means you can set one pin and hit all those distances. That's what I'm curious to know if anyone can do. I know my old bow shows enough drop at 30 yards to warrant a second pin for that distance. And 40 yards, for me personally, is a bit far for me have the accuracy I want in hunting situations because ...
1. wind starts moving the arrows pretty good at 40 yards.
2. if the deer is really at 37 yards, or really at 43 yards, but I think he's at 40 yards, I'll shoot too high, or too low.
3. small little random errors, such as my own shooting ability, start to add up at 40 yards and make it a tough shot.

badbilly429
10-01-2002, 15:10
Originally posted by ithaca_deerslayer
Badbilly, if I understand you correctly, you are hitting those distances using different pins. That makes sense. Part of the difficulty is in knowing the yardage the deer is at, and thus the correct pin to use.

But flat shooting out to 50 yards, the way I understand it, means you can set one pin and hit all those distances. That's what I'm curious to know if anyone can do. I know my old bow shows enough drop at 30 yards to warrant a second pin for that distance. And 40 yards, for me personally, is a bit far for me have the accuracy I want in hunting situations because ...
1. wind starts moving the arrows pretty good at 40 yards.
2. if the deer is really at 37 yards, or really at 43 yards, but I think he's at 40 yards, I'll shoot too high, or too low.
3. small little random errors, such as my own shooting ability, start to add up at 40 yards and make it a tough shot.

i completely agree ithaca, and your right a 40 to 50 yd shot is very tough, especially when your heart is jumping out of your chest, and if the deer moves an inch b4 u realease, as far as the arrow flite goes its like a mile at that distance. there is one of 2 ways you could set up a bow for that distance, to shoot one pin. buy a mathews z max, and pull back 70+ pounds, and even then u might be flat out to 40 but definetely not 50, the other way is to use a sight master pro elite, adjustable single pin sight. the sight has a lever on the back of it, and you mark it off for the correct distances your bow shoots at those peticular yardages. my sq2 came with one, i didnt like it at all, but some people swear by them, if the deer comes in and its 20 yards u take ur thumb slide the sight to the 20 yd mark and shoot. and so on. thats the only realistic way i can see doing it.

rfb45colt
10-01-2002, 22:48
Originally posted by badbilly429


there is one of 2 ways you could set up a bow for that distance, to shoot one pin. buy a mathews z max, and pull back 70+ pounds, and even then u might be flat out to 40 but definetely not 50,

I have a Matthews Z-Max, 30" draw, 70lbs pull, 1998 model. I shoot Gold-Tip brand graphite arrows, only. My actual chronographed average arrow speed (10 feet in front of release) is in excess of 290fps. A few shots have even broken the 300fps mark. I have 3 sight pins... 0-30, 31-50, 51-65 yds. They are only a fraction of an inch apart. I probably could get by with just two (0-40, 41-65). I've never shot a deer at 65 yards... not yet... but I have consistantly hit 3-D type deer targets at that range. I have an archery range set-up on my property, and I can practice shots up to 70 yards. I practice the long range stuff all the time. Besides having the right bow, arrows, and sights, a lot of practice shooting long range is necessary to even attempt such a shot at a deer. After four years of long-range practice, only now do I feel confident enough to try that long of a shot.

As far as the original question in this thread... MATTHEWS... there is no substitute. They aren't cheap, but it's the only bow you'll ever need. And (again not cheap, but the very best) try the Gold Tip graphite (not CARBON) arrows. They were made just for the Mathews bows, it seems. Great, great, combination.

Backstop
10-01-2002, 23:21
My origional comment that kind of started this trajectory thread was "It shoots pretty flat out to 40-50 yards". I guess what I should have said was something like 'the trajectory is manageable out to 40-50 yards.' My site has 3 pins but I just use the middle pin for shots from 10-25 yards and the bottom pin from 25 to 50 with slight adjustments on aiming point based on range. With the middle pin I am making almost no adjustment from 10 to 25 yards so this is where the trajectory is 'nearly' flat.
In addition, my bow is almost exclusively for elk.
Most people wouldn't think twice about shooting an arrow at at deer at 30yards. Essentially, elk have a vital area almost twice the size of the mule deer I hunt. So, in theory, why not shoot at elk from 60 with similer confidence?
Where I practice, I see archers shooting from distances greater than 60 yards with exceptional accuracy.

Hokie3
10-01-2002, 23:50
Reasons why I don't shoot at deer past 30 yards:
1. Speed of sound travels much faster than that arrow and deer have ample time to react(they're not 3D targets) and cause a normally good shot to be a bad shot.
2. An unexpected gust of wind comes by as you release the arrow and sends it off the intended course. Might be able to get away with this at 30-40 yards, but 40+ is pushing it in my opinion.
3. Any tiny mistake you make is exaggerated the further the target is from you.(we are human, humans make mistakes)

If it wasn't so late, I'm sure I could think of more reasons not to shoot at long distances...The fact is, there are many things that can happen that we as humans cannot control...Why risk wounding an animal for our own self-glorification? I have no doubt that any of you are capable of killing a deer as far as 60-70 yds. Why take the chance though?

Backstop
10-02-2002, 00:00
I would not disagree with you out of hand Hokie. I would only say that in many places where I hunt (Oregon) you are goin to run into plenty of longer range opportunities that even the most careful hunter would not pass up. It is just that open. Certainly there are many variables like wind etc... so I am not saying to just fire at will from any range (one would hopefully not even do that with a rifle), I am just saying that around here you should prepare for the longer shot because it could be an acceptable option during any given hunt.;a

ithaca_deerslayer
10-02-2002, 07:13
The debate about distances should be useful for someone who is starting out and picking a bow.

If the terrain is open and you want to make longer shots, then you've got to pick a bow that does shoot as flat as possible. If distant shots isn't your main interest, then you don't need a 300fps bow.

Most of the hunting I've done in NY is pretty wooded. Typical basic scenario is 4 types of vegetation all right next to each other. A stand of pines, a stand of hardwoods, a bunch of thick brush, and a cornfield or hayfield. Only the shots out to the field would be really long, but there's not much reason to do that since the deer will always be coming back to the cover sooner or later. The pines will typically only provide open space enough for 30 yards of clear visibility to the heart lung area (as opposed to faintly seeing the deer's head as he walks in the distance). The hardwoods might open up some more and allow 50 yards, or with a ravine maybe out to 100 yards of visibility. The thick brush may only allow 10 yards. So in this scenario it is easy to see how a bowhunter can come up with a rule of thumb of only taking shots from 0 to 35 yards.

Your mileage may vary.

rfb45colt
10-04-2002, 00:19
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hokie3
Reasons why I don't shoot at deer past 30 yards:
1. Speed of sound travels much faster than that arrow and deer have ample time to react(they're not 3D targets) and cause a normally good shot to be a bad shot.

Deer do not always react to the sound of an arrow being released. I've found that the closer the deer is, the more reaction they have... but it's too late at close range. I've shot deer at 40+ yards, and sure they heard the release, but all they did was quickly raise their head and look in my general direction before the arrow struck. At 40+ yards, they were not sure exactly where that sound was coming from, until too late. An arrow shot at 300fps will travel 40 yds in about .4 of a second. IF the deer "jumps the string" immediately, you may miss your POA by a few inches. I've found that most deer do not "jump the string" at longer distances. You take a chance on every shot you make. If you practice enough, longer shots are no differant. I recall one time, it my cousin's first day deer hunting with a rifle. He shot at a buck that was about 40 yds away... and missed. The buck ran straight at us! He dropped him with his second shot, at 15 yds. The deer heard the shot and reacted all right... but didn't know which way to run.

I was with a buddy walking to our stands one afternoon last year, when a deer unexpectedly appeared in a field adjoining the trail we were on. She heard us talking, and was laying in the tall grass, and suddenly stood up to get a better look. It was a doe, and he had a doe tag. She was pretty far away, but he said he could do it. He did, and she watched him draw, release, and just stood there and watched the arrow fly right to her, and hit her square in the shoulder. Only then did she run... but she dropped after several leaps. He was shooting a Mathews MQ2, with Gold Tip graphites. We paced the distance at 70 steps. Exactly the same distance we practice at our 3-D shoots.

2. An unexpected gust of wind comes by as you release the arrow and sends it off the intended course. Might be able to get away with this at 30-40 yards, but 40+ is pushing it in my opinion.

Makes sense, except for one thing. Most hunting by bow is done very early and very late in the day, from a tree stand, in heavier cover, where there is little, if any, wind. If it's real windy, a 30 yard shot should be passed up... maybe even a 20, if the wind is real bad. But if it's that windy, enough to effect arrow trajectory at 30 yds of an arrow moving close to 300fps, I won't even go deer hunting. I'll be in my duck blind instead. :)

ithaca_deerslayer
10-04-2002, 06:53
rfb45colt, you make it clear that shots can be taken past 30 yards.

But you also seem to gloss over the fact that the farther you go out the more difficult the shots get. I could be reading your post wrong, but you make it seem like there is no difference between a 30 yard and a 40 yard shot. It has been my experience, with my sub-300fps bow, that things start to rapidly deteriorate past 30 yards. 40 yards or more is possible, but increasingly difficult. For example, wind that may not much bother the shot at 30 yards may start to really bother it at 40 or 50 yards.

Backstop
10-04-2002, 09:15
Remember, all of the variables affect bullet flight as well, we are just talking about a matter of scale. While a 300 yard shot with my 7mm rem. mag is a piece of cake, I have to think good and hard before taking one at 600. Just like with the bow, 30 is a no brainer given the proper circumstances. With 40 and up you must give the shot more consideration. And, like I mentioned previously, the size of your target is a very important variable. At this early stage in my archery 'career' I am hunting primarily elk, and elk have a vital area roughly 2 times thi size of the standard mule deer I am used to hunting, and probably even larger than that when compared to an average whitetail.;a

glockster96
10-04-2002, 19:51
Gosh guys, thanks for all the good info. I'm leaning very heavily towards a Matthews Icon bow. It is just plain sweet.

Thanks again!:)

rfb45colt
10-06-2002, 14:39
Originally posted by ithaca_deerslayer
rfb45colt, you make it clear that shots can be taken past 30 yards.

But you also seem to gloss over the fact that the farther you go out the more difficult the shots get. I could be reading your post wrong, but you make it seem like there is no difference between a 30 yard and a 40 yard shot. It has been my experience, with my sub-300fps bow, that things start to rapidly deteriorate past 30 yards. 40 yards or more is possible, but increasingly difficult. For example, wind that may not much bother the shot at 30 yards may start to really bother it at 40 or 50 yards.

There's no question that the longer the shot, the more difficult it is. It was not my intention to infer otherwise. But, OTOH, long shots are not impossible, nor even too difficult to attempt, provided certain facts exist. First of all, you must have had a LOT of practice at the range you are attempting. Second, you must KNOW the range you are shooting at, because as others have said, a lot of variables do exist, and having the wrong range should not be one of them. I not only practice shooting longer ranges, but I practice every day at estimating range. This is VERY important. Third, you must have the proper equipment. To shoot long range, any bow is capable... but there's a lot less variables to consider if you're shooting a good fast bow
with good arrows. Matthews doesn't make the only bow for this... Hoyt, PSA, and others make models capable. Previously, before I shot a Mathews, I shot a Bear Whitetail II and aluminum arrows. Not a bad bow in it's day... but it's day has long passed. I would never attempt ANY shot over 30 yards with that combo. I'll put it this way... going from a bow model of 10-15 years ago, to a current Mathews (or others) is like swithing from a smoothbore flintlock musket to a Remington 700 in .30-06. And fourth, the weather must be exactly right. I'd never attempt a 50+ yard shot unless it was an absolute dead calm.

Take out the wind factor, KNOW the exact range, have a good fast bow, with a good sighting system and quality arrows (that you've practiced with until it's second nature), and shooting 60+ yards is no big deal. Without these things being there, don't try it.

BrianDamage
10-08-2002, 11:55
Hoyt Vortec

Fox
10-08-2002, 12:22
My cousins have been purchasing a mixed lot of cheap, used Bows from the pawnshops and then take them to a local pro-shop for tuning up.

They always have venison.


I do not think that having a particular brand is so importiant as it is to practice and become a proficient archer.