90% PNP cops cannot shoot [Archive] - Glock Talk

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VICARA
04-24-2009, 11:00
Is this true? How come?
for the sake of discussion, lets say, you're the PNP top brass...ano gagawin mo ngayon?

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2009/april/25/yehey/top_stories/20090425top7.html

liveandletlive
04-24-2009, 11:44
Of the things they should be proficient in, I'm sure shooting straight isn't the only thing they do not know how to do. It's the institution's fault though. Many of our LEOs are just victims of this mindset the Government is in. (Ahhh, here I go again blaming the Institution... remember the killing of the De Veras?)

Nothing a single well meaning Top Brass Officer can do about it unless he is a real deviant, carries a really big stick and is impervious to red hot flying jacketed lead.

Beep beep lang po sa BOG brother nating pulis, I'm sure you're part of the 10%.

teddyboy
04-24-2009, 19:51
So sad and embarrasing to hear that..... NAPOLCOM, PNP should make actions and focus on this matter! because knowing that percentage and ratio of marksmanship is real damn BAD! Goodluck!

Young Once
04-24-2009, 20:13
I remember a few years ago, there was a uniformed police officer in Armscor Makati who was practicing with his FA, and he could'nt group. Without exagerration, the board looked like it was hit with a shotgun, instead of a pistol. I struckup a converation with him, and he told me that they had no ammo to practice with because of budget constraints. In fact he was spending his own money for the practice. How sad.

9MX
04-24-2009, 21:02
This is really sad. I wonder why there is no budget allocation for this..or baka naman meron pero..you know..ala fertilizer scam etc.

If this is the case talaga..the PNP should train its men to use sumpit and tirador

teddyboy
04-24-2009, 21:57
If this is the case talaga..the PNP should train its men to use sumpit and tirador

sir 9mx,

baka pati sumpit at tirador hindi pa tumama, beacuse some other PNP's are lazy to practice.... :supergrin::supergrin::supergrin:

Glock_19_9x19
04-24-2009, 23:13
Nakakahiya sila...
they can't shoot straight
they dont follow procedures
Most PNP officials are corrupt

Take away their guns and give them arnis sticks..

VICARA
04-25-2009, 00:00
its a sad truth indeed but i can only imagine a few reasons why. if your take home pay is not that much, i'm almost sure they will skip range time and on occasions, if ever they do, baka limit lang sa 20 putok. at baka may gumagamit pa ng paltik hangang ngayon.

I'am wondering how cops are surviving in our country. Again, I'm not lumping them up in one basket but I know a lot of them from my younger years, living a good life (night life, that is) and can afford with equal passion: alak, babae at sugal.

atmarcella
04-25-2009, 00:25
one thing i see thats not good also is the fact that ang org nila very centralized.

adenine
04-25-2009, 01:09
its a sad truth indeed but i can only imagine a few reasons why. if your take home pay is not that much, i'm almost sure they will skip range time and on occasions, if ever they do, baka limit lang sa 20 putok. at baka may gumagamit pa ng paltik hangang ngayon...

Kulang kc sa support eh...

I remember last year sometime in January, I served at a competition in Daet, Camarines Norte, there was this PD who authorized his LEO's to join a PPSA Level 1 Sanctioned Match (Pistol & Shotgun)! As a support and encouragement to his LEO's, the first 150 volunteers were given free registration and ammo just for them to join. From what I've heard, he managed to solicit the needed funds just to support his LEO's shooting ability.

If most higher officers would give support sa kanyang nasasakupang LEO's, then we wont hear these kind of news. To the PD!!!:thumbsup::notworthy: Keep it up Sir!

darwin25
04-25-2009, 03:15
one thing i see thats not good also is the fact that ang org nila very centralized.


Well that's the bad part about nationalized services. If the service is bad, it's bad everywhere.

Another point for those pushing for federalism.

saki1611
04-25-2009, 05:28
i admit this is a sad fact. there are many reasons to consider why we have this statistics, though the main and number one reason is the lack of funds to buy practice ammo. being a gun enthusiast myself i believe how dry firing help us a lot in gun proficiency but we all know for a fact that it's far different from firing live ammos. there's one retired colonel who told me, "para guamaling ka bumaril dapat marunong kang bumil ng bala", and i believe him based on my experience. actually, i'm happy because i am doing my part by sharing my knowledge with my two classmates in training both assigned at MPD some techniques which gave them an excellent result. they're willing to buy ammos, through that they can see their hits and encouraged them much to practice more. i would suggest if you're really concern with our PNP personnel, why not share your knowledge and extra ammos and teach them to shoot. i have high respect with some of our friends here in BOG who helped me improved my proficiency through knowledge and logistics as well, to name few: 9mx, shihan, gundog, eyecutter, mco, mtho, capt barbel and darna, pogi and others... thanks guys!!! pahinging bala putok ako kaymig!:supergrin:

isuzu
04-25-2009, 08:28
It's a really sad situation. Even rookie cops are forced to buy their own sidearms. He said that if you had to wait for an issued firearm, it would take you around 8 months (if you get lucky) before you get one. And they get their money from credit companies that charge them very high rates.

Nag uumpisa pa lang, lubog na sa utang.

I even took pity to one new graduate. He bought an Armscor 1911 that the hammer followed when the slide cycled. My gunsmith-friend fixed his gun for free. When I found out that his carry load were CCI Shotshells (some stupid gunstore sold this poor guy varmint/pest ammo), I bought him Armscor FMJs.

Kawawa talaga.

9MX
04-25-2009, 11:17
pahinging bala putok ako kaymig!:supergrin:

ayos:rofl:

VICARA
04-25-2009, 14:17
for me, i'm very much willing to help in any way i can, if only i'm in the neighborhood. to all BOG braders who are in the service, let me know how so we can brainstorm the idea.
during my early years with this forum, i shipped some parts to fellow BOGs at no cost. Hindi ko lang alam kung may uniformed brother among them na naka-receive.

Allegra
04-26-2009, 08:30
Ano ba stats sa America? baka ganun din ang marksmaNSHIP NG leo'S NILA
The fact is mahirap naman talga matuto pumutok , kahit nga maraming pambili ng bala di rin matuto e

I'm not sure kung South africa ba yung naka arms embargo kaya wala silang bala pangtraining , puro dry fire ginawa nila
Tinalo pa yata nila yung may training ammo
In my experience the best training pa rin ang dry fire
It's been 8 years since I stoppped ipsc pero hanggang ngayon ok pa mga draw , change mag etc
I credit that sa huge volume ng dry pracrtice ko nun
Pagmarunong ka na pumutok , saka ka lang magdagdag ng volume ng live

BrassKnuckle
04-26-2009, 09:51
I bet miski papano may budget allocation yung practice ammo. Napupunta nga lang siguro sa iilan.

choi_tan2000
04-26-2009, 19:56
i admit this is a sad fact. there are many reasons to consider why we have this statistics, though the main and number one reason is the lack of funds to buy practice ammo. being a gun enthusiast myself i believe how dry firing help us a lot in gun proficiency but we all know for a fact that it's far different from firing live ammos. there's one retired colonel who told me, "para guamaling ka bumaril dapat marunong kang bumil ng bala", and i believe him based on my experience. actually, i'm happy because i am doing my part by sharing my knowledge with my two classmates in training both assigned at MPD some techniques which gave them an excellent result. they're willing to buy ammos, through that they can see their hits and encouraged them much to practice more. i would suggest if you're really concern with our PNP personnel, why not share your knowledge and extra ammos and teach them to shoot. i have high respect with some of our friends here in BOG who helped me improved my proficiency through knowledge and logistics as well, to name few: 9mx, shihan, gundog, eyecutter, mco, mtho, capt barbel and darna, pogi and others... thanks guys!!! pahinging bala putok ako kaymig!:supergrin:


i agree with bro saki, they should first show interest on at least going first to a shooting range, because theres a lot of good guys there who are willing to help them shoot well, but first they should buy their own ammo tlga hehe. this is their bread and butter they should have at least spend some bucks for practice. i salute our LEOs whos willing to spend some bucks for their profession.

how can somebody help us if they dont go to range, and spend some range time. kung kulang budget sa ammo pwede namn basic muna or attend some sessions im sure sooner or later me magbibigay n ng bala,
.

@ wag lang sana tulad ng 2 pulis kahapon sa range namin, we having a clubshoot yesterday, then biglang me pumasok na uniformed COP's (2 sila) dirediretso binuhat yung isang target board umatras habang binubunot gun kinasa putukan na. grabe naglayuan mga shooters, putok change mag then yung isa naman putok change mag. tapos umalis na sila.

nakakatakot ( siga ) natulala kami lahat ang bastos talaga. naiiyak ako sa inis, pero pinagpasensyahan nalng namin.

sory for a slight off topic

jlkwison
04-26-2009, 21:05
I was shooting one day in MCS when I noticed a guy was asking for tape from one of the ROs since he forgot to bring one. He was lean, neat looking and was wearing a tactical holster with a beretta 92 (DA variant). I offered the guy tape and he "very" respectfully took my offer. I noticed while at his fring bay that he only had around 25 pieces of reloads. So curious as I was, I watched him practice. He checked the gun if it was empty and practiced draw and shoot several times. Then he placed 2 rounds and did the same - draw shoot holster. He was good! At 7+ meters, all shots were in close proximity with each other and in the A zone. And then practiced draw double top holster - all landed in A and was fast. Then, he checked if the gun was clear and again practiced without ammo. After the guy left, curious as I was, I asked the RO who he was. The RO said he was a cop and is in SWAT. I was amazed, judging from the ammo and gear he had, it is obvious that he has budget constraints but he still practiced - in his own time and with his own money. He was also very courteous and when he packed his gun, he did it facing down range and he placed the gun in a fanny pack and put it in his bag.

choi_tan2000
04-26-2009, 21:55
I was shooting one day in MCS when I noticed a guy was asking for tape from one of the ROs since he forgot to bring one. He was lean, neat looking and was wearing a tactical holster with a beretta 92 (DA variant). I offered the guy tape and he "very" respectfully took my offer. I noticed while at his fring bay that he only had around 25 pieces of reloads. So curious as I was, I watched him practice. He checked the gun if it was empty and practiced draw and shoot several times. Then he placed 2 rounds and did the same - draw shoot holster. He was good! At 7+ meters, all shots were in close proximity with each other and in the A zone. And then practiced draw double top holster - all landed in A and was fast. Then, he checked if the gun was clear and again practiced without ammo. After the guy left, curious as I was, I asked the RO who he was. The RO said he was a cop and is in SWAT. I was amazed, judging from the ammo and gear he had, it is obvious that he has budget constraints but he still practiced - in his own time and with his own money. He was also very courteous and when he packed his gun, he did it facing down range and he placed the gun in a fanny pack and put it in his bag.


wow that was a good expirience bro, yah they can be good and proficient with out spending much.. it is not how much is your salary is, it is how do you spend your money......'

:picard:

jerrytrini
04-26-2009, 23:10
Ano ba stats sa America? baka ganun din ang marksmaNSHIP NG leo'S NILA
The fact is mahirap naman talga matuto pumutok , kahit nga maraming pambili ng bala di rin matuto e

I'm not sure kung South africa ba yung naka arms embargo kaya wala silang bala pangtraining , puro dry fire ginawa nila
Tinalo pa yata nila yung may training ammo
In my experience the best training pa rin ang dry fire
It's been 8 years since I stoppped ipsc pero hanggang ngayon ok pa mga draw , change mag etc
I credit that sa huge volume ng dry pracrtice ko nun
Pagmarunong ka na pumutok , saka ka lang magdagdag ng volume ng live

Every other month ALL officers (patrol and detectives) are required to qualify with their duty weapon. If an officer fails, he or she goes through extra training sessions with the Firearms Unit. Some officers shoot the "Bonus" course. Money is awarded when certain scores are met. Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and the Distinguished Expert. Each division conducts Training days, an added shooting exercise taught by SWAT. Then there is the Shotgun qualification conducted twice yearly.

atmarcella
04-26-2009, 23:20
kasi naman ang pera ng LAPD pumupunta talaga sa bala, hindi naliligaw sa russia o kung saan man, nagiging euro hahahaha

Clusterbomb
04-27-2009, 01:39
I once watched a group of cops at the range at Camp Crame. Grabe, they were really bad! And judging from their looks, they were not rookies.

To top it all, the one who was at the firing line got laughed at and heaped with a liberal dose of heckles and insults from his colleagues watching in the sidelines! Sila-sila nag-a-alaskahan!

A guy standing next to me remarked, "Naku, at yan ba ang inaasahan mong magtanggol sa'yo?"

Allegra
04-27-2009, 02:17
Every other month ALL officers (patrol and detectives) are required to qualify with their duty weapon. If an officer fails, he or she goes through extra training sessions with the Firearms Unit. Some officers shoot the "Bonus" course. Money is awarded when certain scores are met. Marksman, Sharpshooter, Expert and the Distinguished Expert. Each division conducts Training days, an added shooting exercise taught by SWAT. Then there is the Shotgun qualification conducted twice yearly.

How about the small sheriffs department ng small towns sir Jerry?
Inisip ko dati , mag sheriffs deputy sa isang small dept jan :)
Kaso yung kausap kong sheriff coudnt give an answer kung pwede non-citizen hehe

CatsMeow
04-27-2009, 04:10
In the Army they are called: BOLOMEN.

They need to dry-fire some more, especially with the issue Beretta 92DS with its thick grip and long trigger.

jlkwison
04-27-2009, 04:59
wow that was a good expirience bro, yah they can be good and proficient with out spending much.. it is not how much is your salary is, it is how do you spend your money......'

:picard:

It sure was sir Choi_tan2000, although it is sad that I can't say the same with your experience. :sad:

jerrytrini
04-27-2009, 19:08
How about the small sheriffs department ng small towns sir Jerry?
Inisip ko dati , mag sheriffs deputy sa isang small dept jan :)
Kaso yung kausap kong sheriff coudnt give an answer kung pwede non-citizen hehe

I am sure all agencies have their own qualification programs regardless of personnel strength. OT. When I went dove hunting in Benavidez, TX, I met the local LEO. He had an empty holster, loaded speedloaders, and wore a tarnished badge. He said that he does not a need gun since everyone knows him and besides it was getting heavy on his hip. While we were still talking, he and I observed a car went through a stop sign then he remarked, "That boy again, this time I will go to his house and give him a ticket.".:rofl::rofl::rofl: