Windows Disk De-Frag is Crap [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Cobra64
04-26-2009, 00:09
Hi,

Has anyone noticed that Windows De-Frag has become almost worthless? I run Disk Cleanup and De-Frag every night and this is the best it will do:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/DE-FRAGIMAGE.jpg

Is there a utility that works? I want to get it on a DVD so that I can use it on all of our family's PCs.

CitizenOfDreams
04-26-2009, 00:34
What exactly are you trying to achieve by defragmenting your drive every night?

Cobra64
04-26-2009, 00:41
What exactly are you trying to achieve by defragmenting your drive every night?De-fragged files reduces disk read/writes and speeds up throughput.

CitizenOfDreams
04-26-2009, 00:58
De-fragged files reduces disk read/writes and speeds up throughput.
And what does that _practically_ mean for your computer? Such as "after I defragment my drive, Photoshop opens a batch of 10 files in 46 seconds instead of 57"?
I personally have abandoned defragmenting after NTFS and ATA100 came along. Measure the actual performance of your computer (as in how long it takes to perform a certain task before and after defragmenting, not the "throughput" and "disk read/writes"), and you may do the same.

Cobra64
04-26-2009, 01:49
And what does that _practically_ mean for your computer? Such as "after I defragment my drive, Photoshop opens a batch of 10 files in 46 seconds instead of 57"?
I personally have abandoned defragmenting after NTFS and ATA100 came along. Measure the actual performance of your computer (as in how long it takes to perform a certain task before and after defragmenting, not the "throughput" and "disk read/writes"), and you may do the same.Thanks you for your response but I am still seeking an answer to my request regarding file defragmentation software.

Blitzer
04-26-2009, 02:02
Try these:

http://adlog.com.com/adlog/i/r=8714&s=849664&o=20:2018:2094:&h=cn&p=2&b=6&l=en_US&site=4&pt=3000&nd=2094&pid=&cid=11011313&pp=100&e=3&rqid=01c18-ad-e1149F3953819F492&orh=www.google.com&ort=disk%2520defragmenter&oepartner=&epartner=&ppartner=&pdom=www.google.com&cpnmodule=&count=&ra=76.244.152.229&dvar=dvar%255fdlpsid%253d10567503%2523dvar%255fkwtag%253dAusLogics%252chard%2520drive%252csector%252 3dvar%255fplatform%253dwindows%2523dvar%255fversion%253d2008&ucat_rsi=&pg=oyF18woPjAMAAGzg9OkAAAAO&t=2009.04.26.08.01.29/http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/Ads/7059/10/rm_728_01.gif (http://adlog.com.com/adlog/c/r=8714&s=849664&o=20:2018:2094:&h=cn&p=2&b=6&l=en_US&site=4&pt=3000&nd=2094&pid=&cid=11011313&pp=100&e=3&rqid=01c18-ad-e1149F3953819F492&orh=www.google.com&oepartner=&epartner=&ppartner=&pdom=www.google.com&cpnmodule=&count=&ra=76.244.152.229&pg=oyF18woPjAMAAGzg9OkAAAAO&t=2009.04.26.08.01.29/http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/?ref=cnet&utm_source=download.com&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=ALL&utm_campaign=UTILROS_rm_728_01) Auslogics Disk Defrag (http://download.cnet.com/Auslogics-Disk-Defrag/3000-2094_4-10567503.html) 1.6.24.355



Perfect Disk HOME VERSION Trial (http://www.perfectdisk.com/home)

Cobra64
04-26-2009, 03:58
Try these:

http://adlog.com.com/adlog/i/r=8714&s=849664&o=20:2018:2094:&h=cn&p=2&b=6&l=en_US&site=4&pt=3000&nd=2094&pid=&cid=11011313&pp=100&e=3&rqid=01c18-ad-e1149F3953819F492&orh=www.google.com&ort=disk%2520defragmenter&oepartner=&epartner=&ppartner=&pdom=www.google.com&cpnmodule=&count=&ra=76.244.152.229&dvar=dvar%255fdlpsid%253d10567503%2523dvar%255fkwtag%253dAusLogics%252chard%2520drive%252csector%252 3dvar%255fplatform%253dwindows%2523dvar%255fversion%253d2008&ucat_rsi=&pg=oyF18woPjAMAAGzg9OkAAAAO&t=2009.04.26.08.01.29/http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/Ads/7059/10/rm_728_01.gif (http://adlog.com.com/adlog/c/r=8714&s=849664&o=20:2018:2094:&h=cn&p=2&b=6&l=en_US&site=4&pt=3000&nd=2094&pid=&cid=11011313&pp=100&e=3&rqid=01c18-ad-e1149F3953819F492&orh=www.google.com&oepartner=&epartner=&ppartner=&pdom=www.google.com&cpnmodule=&count=&ra=76.244.152.229&pg=oyF18woPjAMAAGzg9OkAAAAO&t=2009.04.26.08.01.29/http://www.pctools.com/registry-mechanic/?ref=cnet&utm_source=download.com&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=ALL&utm_campaign=UTILROS_rm_728_01) Auslogics Disk Defrag (http://download.cnet.com/Auslogics-Disk-Defrag/3000-2094_4-10567503.html) 1.6.24.355



Perfect Disk HOME VERSION Trial (http://www.perfectdisk.com/home)
Thanks Blitzer. I've been using a registry cleaner for years. It does a nice job of deleting lost lnks and organizing the registry.

CitizenOfDreams
04-26-2009, 08:22
Thanks you for your response but I am still seeking an answer to my request regarding file defragmentation software.
Let us know how well it works.

flyt100
04-26-2009, 08:35
I use Defraggler, and it seems to work fine (By the same people that make CCleaner). It's free too.

Defragging does make a practical difference, and I still find the need to do it on NTFS drives. I use some fairly large files, and it can be noticeable.

http://www.defraggler.com/

Sgt. Schultz
04-26-2009, 11:09
I agree that you do need to defrag all Windows OSís, just how often you defrag depends on what you do with your computer BUT every night is definitely overkill Ö it's hard to see any real performance difference unless your system is extremely fragmented.

Once every three months is more than sufficient for most users. If you constantly add and delete data, install and uninstall programs then you might need to defrag each month.



BTW if you think XP's defrag is crap wait until you see Vistas!

Dandapani
04-26-2009, 11:39
De-fragged files reduces disk read/writes and speeds up throughput.

two words: voo doo

Cobra64
04-26-2009, 15:01
two words: voo doo
:rofl:

Big Al 24
04-26-2009, 15:13
There is also JKdefrag which is free.

http://www.kessels.com/Jkdefrag/

Cobra64
04-26-2009, 17:29
There is also JKdefrag which is free.

http://www.kessels.com/Jkdefrag/Thanks Big Al. I'll take a look.

TBO
04-26-2009, 18:01
Smart Defrag

http://download.cnet.com/Smart-Defrag/3000-2094_4-10759533.html

Texas357
04-26-2009, 20:06
two words: voo doo

:rofl:

30% makes things better,
30% makes things worse,
40% has no effect?

Heck, that makes it as effective as cryo-treatment of barrels....

ax157
04-26-2009, 20:35
two words: voo doo

Yeah pretty much. :cool:

RTmarc
04-28-2009, 12:21
O&O Defrag

http://www.oo-software.com/home/en/

RaiderRodney
04-28-2009, 12:33
+1 for Smart Defrag.

Drjones
04-28-2009, 12:33
Defragging your HD every single day is exactly like detail stripping & deep cleaning your guns every single day; all you are accomplishing is accelerating wear and tear.

You are not getting your drive cleaner but you are shortening its life span by making it work so much more and you certainly are NOT seeing any performance increases.

Green_Manelishi
04-28-2009, 15:15
De-fragged files reduces disk read/writes and speeds up throughput.

If your disk needs to be defragged every night your 'puter is a mess, or you are creating/deleting/editing/renaming many GB of data every day.

Blitzer
04-28-2009, 15:58
Thanks Blitzer. I've been using a registry cleaner for years. It does a nice job of deleting lost lnks and organizing the registry.



I am currently using Perfect disk 10 free version, fast and effective! :supergrin: :cool:

Cobra64
04-28-2009, 18:03
If your disk needs to be defragged every night your 'puter is a mess, or you are creating/deleting/editing/renaming many GB of data every day.No one's hard drive really needs to be de-fragged. Like many on Glock Talk, they never clean their guns either.

Micrososft's version is very ineffective in doing a true de-frag and file consolidation. In the mid-1980s there were third party utilities that very effective. That is what I'm attempting to find. It's not a speed issue, it's a matter of having data organized.

flyt100
04-28-2009, 18:17
As a point of reference, I had a college this week that thought his computer was slow due to the fragmentation of the free space (slow read/writes to the swap file). We regularly run some engineering simulations, so we benchmarked it @ ~47 seconds before defrag, ~17s after. It can make a big difference, depending on the situation.

Cobra64
04-28-2009, 18:25
As a point of reference, I had a college this week that thought his computer was slow due to the fragmentation of the free space (slow read/writes to the swap file). We regularly run some engineering simulations, so we benchmarked it @ ~47 seconds before defrag, ~17s after. It can make a big difference, depending on the situation.I agree. When I was on business in Milan for three months, the locals had never done any administrative maintenance on their laptops. It took hours just to run Disk Cleanup, Registry Cleaner and De-Frag. The result was not only speed and efficiency due to drastically reduced read/write disk seeks, but the drives last longer.

Green_Manelishi
04-28-2009, 18:41
No one's hard drive really needs to be de-fragged. Like many on Glock Talk, they never clean their guns either.

Micrososft's version is very ineffective in doing a true de-frag and file consolidation. In the mid-1980s there were third party utilities that very effective. That is what I'm attempting to find. It's not a speed issue, it's a matter of having data organized.

Guns need to be cleaned? :faint: Even Glocks? :wow:

I understand the concept. Unless "you" start losing data what do you care where the 'puter stores it? Especially if it's not a speed issue .. which for most folks it is, or so they claim.

MS "version" of just about anything is suspect. On the other hand, I had a boss who thought Visual BASIC was the answer to every programming project, even if the file came from an IBM mainframe running CoBOL.

Cobra64
04-28-2009, 19:16
Guns need to be cleaned? :faint: Even Glocks? :wow:

I understand the concept. Unless "you" start losing data what do you care where the 'puter stores it? Especially if it's not a speed issue .. which for most folks it is, or so they claim.

MS "version" of just about anything is suspect. On the other hand, I had a boss who thought Visual BASIC was the answer to every programming project, even if the file came from an IBM mainframe running CoBOL.I've been involved in systems since the early 1970s. On IBM System 32, 34, 36 we were always doing file re-orgs and disk compressions. It's amazing how fast 12 twin heads can move over six 11" platters. The AS400 is a totally different animal though. Calvin Klein Cosmetics had a $5m box the size of a small sofa in their tech center that had the power of a dozen System 38s.

ax157
04-28-2009, 19:40
No one's hard drive really needs to be de-fragged. Like many on Glock Talk, they never clean their guns either.

Micrososft's version is very ineffective in doing a true de-frag and file consolidation. In the mid-1980s there were third party utilities that very effective. That is what I'm attempting to find. It's not a speed issue, it's a matter of having data organized.

:rofl::rofl:

That has to be the worst reason to run defrag that I've ever heard.

What difference does it make to you if the data is "more organized" at the hard drive level when it makes NO difference to the way things appear whatsoever?

If you only had any idea just how MUCH disorganization and inefficiency exists in the average computer running windows, that has nothing to do with fragmentation. :supergrin:

Green_Manelishi
04-29-2009, 08:43
I've been involved in systems since the early 1970s. On IBM System 32, 34, 36 we were always doing file re-orgs and disk compressions. It's amazing how fast 12 twin heads can move over six 11" platters. The AS400 is a totally different animal though. Calvin Klein Cosmetics had a $5m box the size of a small sofa in their tech center that had the power of a dozen System 38s.

Obviously the System 32, 34, 36 architecture needed a bit of improvement.

My work on IBM "main frames" ended in 1986 and I do not recall the system(s) my employer was using. I was using the IBM, PDP something or other (to convert some RSTS to JCL and CoBOL, hence my work on IBM) then transferred to a different group that used a cluster of VAX.

I do not want to enter a pssing contest but if you've been involved in systems since early 1970s why do you want to defrag a dmnd PC disk every day? As others have pointed out, who cares what the puter does with the data as long as it's not effecting your work? Ohhh, I get it ... you like everything neat and tidy. :supergrin:

CitizenOfDreams
04-29-2009, 09:43
Ohhh, I get it ... you like everything neat and tidy. :supergrin:
At the expense of putting your files at risk, too. Every time the files are read from the disk, passed through the drive controller, stored in RAM, sent back to the controller and written onto the disk, there is a small, yet non-zero probability of data corruption. Moving your files around on a daily basis is not a good idea in my book - and, unlike most people, I regularly backup my data and check its integrity (MD5 hash).

Drjones
04-29-2009, 09:49
At the expense of putting your files at risk, too. Every time the files are read from the disk, passed through the drive controller, stored in RAM, sent back to the controller and written onto the disk, there is a small, yet non-zero probability of data corruption. Moving your files around on a daily basis is not a good idea in my book - and, unlike most people, I regularly backup my data and check its integrity (MD5 hash).


Hmmm....never heard of that....how do you check data integrity?

Green_Manelishi
04-29-2009, 09:54
At the expense of putting your files at risk, too. Every time the files are read from the disk, passed through the drive controller, stored in RAM, sent back to the controller and written onto the disk, there is a small, yet non-zero probability of data corruption. Moving your files around on a daily basis is not a good idea in my book - and, unlike most people, I regularly backup my data and check its integrity (MD5 hash).

Moving anything around on a daily basis is a bad idea; those things get lost too.

literaltrance
04-29-2009, 09:55
Windows is Crap.

Fixed! :cool:

Joking aside, there is an additional benefit to defragging aside from performance. It will reduce the long-term physical use of the platters and heads and extend hard disk life. Of course this begs the question why run an operating system which arbitrarily throws data in random spots on the plate among a slew of other less-than-desirable "features" which is why I changed the initial title.

Truth be told, the benefits of defrag on desktops and laptops is marginal, as suggested in prior posts to this thread.

Green_Manelishi
04-29-2009, 10:01
Hmmm....never heard of that....how do you check data integrity?

Here's some info, and there is plenty more, about MD5. Don't know if it's accurate but it's interesting.

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~mabzug1/cs/md5/md5.html