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Civitas
05-21-2009, 14:08
I'm trying to make sense of the North Carolina law on having a gun in the glove box. The law says you can't have it on or about your person.... and the Attorney General has issued an advisory opinion that the glove box counts as on your person, whether locked or not. Is there any change on this or any case law?

Eagle22
05-21-2009, 14:52
if you do not have a CP it must be locked un loaded in your trunk

IIRC the Glove box is with in reach, that is the reason.

glockluver
05-21-2009, 18:15
The glove box is considered to be the lungable area meaning you can get to it from the drivers are of vehicle.If not ccw it has to be in plain view or locked in trunk.

BigFelipe
05-21-2009, 19:23
if you do not have a CP it must be locked un loaded in your trunk

IIRC the Glove box is with in reach, that is the reason.


Not true. You can have it in the vehicle loaded. Perfectly legal. You just can't conceal it w/o a permit. I keep my pistol with me in the cab. If I get pulled I place it on the dash or passenger seat and keep my hands on the wheel.

bpwables
05-21-2009, 19:45
Not true. You can have it in the vehicle loaded. Perfectly legal. You just can't conceal it w/o a permit. I keep my pistol with me in the cab. If I get pulled I place it on the dash or passenger seat and keep my hands on the wheel.

+1 perfectly legal to have it loaded in car/truck. Just tell the officer about it when he get's to your door, and have it in plane site. I got pulled over before I got my CCP and the cop did not give me A chance to tell him before he saw it. Scared the crap out of him and me after he drew down on me.

Civitas
05-21-2009, 19:46
So if you have a CCW it's ok to have the gun in the glovebox?

Civitas
05-21-2009, 19:49
+1 perfectly legal to have it loaded in car/truck. Just tell the officer about it when he get's to your door, and have it in plane site. I got pulled over before I got my CCP and the cop did not give me A chance to tell him before he saw it. Scared the crap out of him and me after he drew down on me.
Ummm, so perfectly legal gets you a gun pointed at you? Something wrong here. How did the conversation go after he pulled his pistol on you? Was this a NC State Trooper or local LEO?

bpwables
05-21-2009, 19:49
So if you have a CCW it's ok to have the gun in the glovebox?

Yes, And you still have A duty to inform in NC. Which means you must tell the officer.

bpwables
05-21-2009, 19:59
Ummm, so perfectly legal gets you a gun pointed at you? Something wrong here. How did the conversation go after he pulled his pistol on you? Was this a NC State Trooper or local LEO?

Yes it was A trooper he pulled me for speeding, it was late night 2:00 or so. I was the only one in the truck. He came to the door I started to tell him of my weapon when he flashed it with his light.:wow:Then he backed up drew down and asked A stupid question (Who's firearm is that?) My hands never left the weal the hole time. But it scared him for some reason. Maybe A long night. After I told him I was about to inform him of the weapon, he forgot about the speeding thing. He said have A good night. :supergrin:

David From NC
05-21-2009, 20:15
I'm a NC LEO with 22 years service.

Before CCPs, we used the glove box as the example for criminal law cases on the crime of carrying a concealed weapon.

If the glovebox was UNLOCKED, we were taught (and teach) that this completes the elements for Carrying a Concealed Weapon, and therefore the person(s) MAY be charged, at the discretion of the officer.

If the glovebox is LOCKED, and the key was on the keyring in the switch, old case law held that this meant the weapon was not "readily available" (requiring two more "movements" were were always told) and therefore this was NOT considered to meet the elements for CCW, and therefore the person(s) should NOT be charged.

I haven't seen the advisory opinion you mention-I'll check the website... Or if you could provide a link to it (?)

So if you are carrying in the glovebox, lock it and make sure you make clear reference to the officer about it being in the LOCKED glovebox...

Also, NC makes no distinction between "loaded" and "unloaded" for any law or statute.

Anytime anyone asks about CCW, I remind you that the officer has a GREAT deal of discretion...

David From NC
05-21-2009, 20:22
Ummm, so perfectly legal gets you a gun pointed at you? Something wrong here. How did the conversation go after he pulled his pistol on you? Was this a NC State Trooper or local LEO?

Bear in mind that even a "legal" gun in your hands or within your reach many get LE weapons drawn or pointed at you...until things are sorted out. This even applies in your home or on your property, or private property if LEOs have a legal reason to be there.

I'm not trying to stir up more "us vs. them" debates or arguments by mentioning this-in fact I wanted to clear that up BEFORE a big "us-vs-them-to-do" was made of the fact you can have a "legal" gun and still be drawn on.

That said, it DOES sound like the GREY GOD was a little jumpy... :supergrin:

Eagle22
05-21-2009, 20:37
+1 perfectly legal to have it loaded in car/truck. Just tell the officer about it when he get's to your door, and have it in plane site. I got pulled over before I got my CCP and the cop did not give me A chance to tell him before he saw it. Scared the crap out of him and me after he drew down on me.
I stand corrected. I carry my pistol loaded, in my vest pocket.


Learned in my CCW class to put your drivers window 1/2 down and your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. LEOs are taught that if the window is 1/2 down, there MAY be a weapon in the car.

David From NC
05-21-2009, 20:54
Learned in my CCW class to put your drivers window 1/2 down and your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. LEOs are taught that if the window is 1/2 down, there MAY be a weapon in the car.


That's good to know-first I've heard of it! :supergrin:

Civitas
05-22-2009, 05:55
I haven't seen the advisory opinion you mention-I'll check the website... Or if you could provide a link to it (?)
.
The following is from the ncdoj website. It is a recommendation. Not sure if that constitutes a legal advisory opinion. I have read that such an advisory opinion exists but that may have been referring to this statement.

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

page 18
<nobr></nobr>
D. Transporting Weapons
Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever vigilant to ensure their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon, either on or about them, without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North Carolina, or recognized out-of-state concealed handgun permit.

Therefore, the permittee's accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is for these reasons, that when transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the weapon is not concealed, and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile.

Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily accessible to an occupant of an automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and readily accessible, and therefore in violation of North Carolina law, if it were placed in such areas of a vehicle as under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle. It is our recommendation that firearms should not be carried in a glove compartment regardless of whether the compartment is locked or not.

Civitas
05-22-2009, 06:03
Bear in mind that even a "legal" gun in your hands or within your reach many get LE weapons drawn or pointed at you...until things are sorted out. This even applies in your home or on your property, or private property if LEOs have a legal reason to be there.

I'm not trying to stir up more "us vs. them" debates or arguments by mentioning this-in fact I wanted to clear that up BEFORE a big "us-vs-them-to-do" was made of the fact you can have a "legal" gun and still be drawn on.

That said, it DOES sound like the GREY GOD was a little jumpy... :supergrin:
I was not criticizing the Trooper. I'm sure I would be jumpy too if I had to approach a strange car at 2AM. I just mean that there is a process problem somewhere. Maybe the standard procedure in a traffic stop should be for the officer to ask if there is a weapon in the car before approaching the window. If the answer is no and then he sees a weapon, there would be ample reason for the officer to draw his weapon. This just seems to be an unnecessarily vague area that could lead to serious problems. Any time an officer draws a weapon there is the possibility that he will fire without understanding the entire situation. Or in any case, he will really scare the driver. :supergrin:

Waylay Heat
05-24-2009, 11:15
It's ok for a cop to draw down on anyone if he feels like his life maybe threatened. Cops get shot on the side of the road during traffic stops all the time. I'd be jumpy too...I really thing jumpy is often confused with properly trained...If you have a problem with a sober LEO drawing down on you during the performance of his duties I would suggest not carrying a firearm at all...
ONE MORE THING...If you shoot and wound a perpetrator and have to hold him at bay until police arrive, You can bet that the reporting officers WILL draw down on you until they clear the scene of all potential threats.........I don't blame them.
Just my two cents...Which is probably worth $100.00!
My suggestion is to get used to the LEO's doing there jobs....They have a tough job and I thank them for their service...
btw) not to keen on that seatbelt law though....Why is it in SC that a trooper can write you a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt while motorcycle riders are passing you not wearing helmuts? The seat belt law is nothing more than legislation to procure federal highway money. Don't tread on me...........

Civitas
05-25-2009, 18:16
It's ok for a cop to draw down on anyone if he feels like his life maybe threatened. .
No it's not ok. Accidents can happen and this behavior is begging for an accident. Doesn't even square with the basic rules of firearm safety. In this particular case, the officer did not have cause to feel his life was threatened because the drivers hands were on the wheel and not close to the gun. It does no good for the reputation of NC State Troopers for one of them to be drawing on an innocent law abiding citizen.

On the other hand, I understand the actions of the Trooper and I'm not criticizing his individual actions. But it seems some simple procedural changes would make this behavior unnecessary. The officer should have been instructed to ask about weapons before approaching the window. THEN, if he sees an undeclared gun, he has good cause to react as he did.

Waylay Heat
05-27-2009, 06:11
I said if his life feels threatened....you're hearts in the right place...You just don't know what goes through a LEO's mind during an unknown risk traffiic stop..No it's not ok. Accidents can happen and this behavior is begging for an accident. Doesn't even square with the basic rules of firearm safety. In this particular case, the officer did not have cause to feel his life was threatened because the drivers hands were on the wheel and not close to the gun. It does no good for the reputation of NC State Troopers for one of them to be drawing on an innocent law abiding citizen.

On the other hand, I understand the actions of the Trooper and I'm not criticizing his individual actions. But it seems some simple procedural changes would make this behavior unnecessary. The officer should have been instructed to ask about weapons before approaching the window. THEN, if he sees an undeclared gun, he has good cause to react as he did.