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horge
05-27-2009, 21:11
**SPOILER WARNING**


Yes, "Salivation".
Because...

After months and months of drooling over the franchise's last chance
at redemption (now THERE's a title, considering the Marcus story arc),
I came away visually stirred, but with a frown and a severe want of spit.

The first Terminator movie remains the best-constructed in the series;
the most coherent in terms of plot and character motivation. T2 was
a triumph of special effects --the first major movie to bring the "wow"
of new CG SFX to the masses, although the idea of a second, and
far more advanced, terminator being sent back in time was stretching
things quite a bit. T3? It was simply a mess.

Comes now T4, actually the first of the series with a real shot at real
drama ...and the script blows it. It is ruined by gross spoonfeeding.
What could have been a gradual revelation on Marcus, is given away in
the first few minutes. It's like the moviemakers just couldn't decide whose
story to tell, Marcus' or John's, the latter being no new story at all, since
it's already part of the franchise legendarium.

Which brings us to coherence with respect to said legendarium.
If Kyle Reese is so high on Skynet's kill-list, this must be some alternate
future where his status as John's father is already known, right? Reese
isn't even a full-fledged resistance fighter yet, so why else the priority?
So...

Skynet had Kyle in custody for quite a stretch, and if they knew he was
John's father-to-be, why not kill Kyle outright and negate John's very
existence, the whole (paradoxically-flawed) logic to the prior movies?
There are other glaring flaws, but I'll be fair and note that many films
have been short on logic, yet have delivered bigtime with action-packed
visuals.

Unfortunately, "visuals" is PRECISELY where my biggest disappintment
with T4 lies, particularly with respect to it's final battle.

After all the buildup about Skynet's impregnability, about the supposed
vulnerability being a well-laid trap, why so easy for the Resistance to
fly in evac choppers, with nary an HK in sight? Just a few frames of
Resistance aircraft engaging Skynet's defenses, in effect covering
the rescue mission's butt, would have served, but what we got was
more laziness on the filmmakers' part.

The movie resorted instead, solely to copying the 'finale' template (and
even the set design) of T and T2. Those first two movies were about
human targets confronting a lone terminator sent against them, and so
the scale of said finales was appropriate.

This time, the scale and context is bigger, it's about humans attacking
a Skynet base that is armed to the teeth; but the movie goes BACK
to the formula of a single terminator chasing the good guy around
some film-noir factory, totally dropping the issue of Skynet's defenses.

Even the plot device of T101 fuel-cells being so explosive doesn't fit
with the manner in which Sarah Conner dispatched the T101 sent after
her, nor how a similar T101 was destroyed in T2; or there would have
been a hell of an explosion, killing all the principals.

Marcus' story arc ends in pure sap, not for the fact of his choice, but
because of how it was scripted and shot. Reminded me of TV soaps
where a character is about to undergo brain surgery, and the entire
cast is present, standing around, while the concept of a sterile surgical
environment is treated as a nuisance, like the audience's intelligence.

Just had to get some of this stuff off my chest...
as I've been cranky about it since yesterday.

If someone out there has an explanation to make me feel better, I'd
love to hear it.

h.

mc_oliver
05-27-2009, 22:02
Is this suppose to "complement" the Terminator TV series?

1985 4Runner
05-27-2009, 23:09
The movie was origionally supposed to be about Marcus, to be played by Christian Bale. He then decided he wanted to play John Connor, throwing a monkey wrench in the script which had to be rewritten to accomodate his "status".

Overall it wasn't bad but far from what I expected.

C+

horge
05-28-2009, 07:46
Is this suppose to "complement" the Terminator TV series?
Oliver, The Sarah Conner Chronicles is more like a total reboot to me,
in an alternate-reality sort of way, so I guess the answer is the TV series
and this movie aren't complementary at all, story-wise.

The movie was origionally supposed to be about Marcus, to be played by Christian Bale. He then decided he wanted to play John Connor, throwing a monkey wrench in the script which had to be rewritten to accomodate his "status".
Thanks...that just about dovetails with my main gripe:
The production's indecisiveness on whether to focus on John Conner's
non-story, or the script's natural center of gravity, Marcus.
I guess Bale didn't want just a one-off role in the franchise.

Overall it wasn't bad but far from what I expected.
C+
You're far more generous than I am, heheh.

BuckyP
05-28-2009, 12:09
I enjoyed it for the mindless roller coaster ride, but there were many plot holes like you pointed out.

If they did write it so the Marcus character was a mystery, the media would have spoiled it before we got to the theaters anyway. Think about T2? It was written in such away that you didn't know Arnie was a good-T. You wouldn't have known until the first confrontation in the hallway. That would have been much more suspenseful!! However, all the reviewers made sure it was public before it opened.

Allegra
05-31-2009, 20:48
were the machines killing all the ugly women and the goodlooking guys?

horge
06-01-2009, 00:53
were the machines killing all the ugly women and the goodlooking guys?

A little frustrated over goodlooking guys, Allegra?
:aodnsb:
:tongueout:

Allegra
06-01-2009, 10:27
A little frustrated over goodlooking guys, Allegra?
:aodnsb:
:tongueout:


Syempre naman
Sino pa ba magtutulungan kundi mga kapwa pogi

Clusterbomb
06-02-2009, 00:33
I suddenly remembered that T3 produced a time travel paradox. Remember the scene in the mobile camper (Winnebago ba yun?) where Arnold revealed how John Connor would die in the future? "I killed you." And he goes on to explain that he was able to win John's trust because of his emotional attachment to the T800 in T2.

If John Connor knew right then and there how he would be killed, wouldn't it be logical for him to destroy all T800s he would meet in the future? Better yet, wouldn't it be tempting for John to destroy Arnold right there para di na sila magkita in the future? But I don't know how the rest of T3 would play out kung ganun ginawa nya.

So if T4 would have sequels, would they still kill off John as Arnold said in T3? Ang gulo!

blownhemi
06-02-2009, 01:23
I suddenly remembered that T3 produced a time travel paradox. Remember the scene in the mobile camper (Winnebago ba yun?) where Arnold revealed how John Connor would die in the future? "I killed you." And he goes on to explain that he was able to win John's trust because of his emotional attachment to the T800 in T2.

If John Connor knew right then and there how he would be killed, wouldn't it be logical for him to destroy all T800s he would meet in the future? Better yet, wouldn't it be tempting for John to destroy Arnold right there para di na sila magkita in the future? But I don't know how the rest of T3 would play out kung ganun ginawa nya.

So if T4 would have sequels, would they still kill off John as Arnold said in T3? Ang gulo!


Arnie's model was T101, not T800 as used in the most recent movie. I swear the producers or script writers didn't even go back and watch the first two movies. I actually enjoyed T3 better than T4.

horge
06-02-2009, 03:17
I swear the producers or script writers didn't even go back and watch the first two movies.
If they did, it sure didn't show up on the big screen.

I actually enjoyed T3 better than T4.
The more I think about the mess that T4 is, the closer
I come to agreeing with you.

h.

horge
06-02-2009, 03:25
I suddenly remembered that T3 produced a time travel paradox. Remember the scene in the mobile camper (Winnebago ba yun?) where Arnold revealed how John Connor would die in the future? "I killed you." And he goes on to explain that he was able to win John's trust because of his emotional attachment to the T800 in T2.

If John Connor knew right then and there how he would be killed, wouldn't it be logical for him to destroy all T800s he would meet in the future?
As blownhemi pointed out, Arnold was a T101.
Anyway, John would be better served simply knowing in advance,
and not trusting T101's completely. If he offed the entire stock of
T101's, he'd just be creating uncertainty: Skynet would then try to
get to him some other, unknown way.

Better yet, wouldn't it be tempting for John to destroy Arnold right there para di na sila magkita in the future? But I don't know how the rest of T3 would play out kung ganun ginawa nya.
That would eliminate just one T101, and almost certainly not
the one that might come after him "in the future".

So if T4 would have sequels, would they still kill off John as Arnold said in T3? Ang gulo!
Ugh... more sequels...

:)
h.

Clusterbomb
06-02-2009, 20:30
I read it somewhere that Arnie was a "T800-Model 101" in T2, much better than the one in T1 (because of the real human skin & flesh that healed?). I don't know kung yung Terminator model or variant ni Arnie sa T3 is even better than the one in T2 (because of the double fuel cells?). Parang celfone, 'no? Madali ring ma-obsolete.

Sa akin OK na yung T1 & T2. Tight pa yung meshing nung dalawang istorya. But last Saturday I came out of the cinema confused and disappointed with T4.

blownhemi
06-02-2009, 23:09
I read it somewhere that Arnie was a "T800-Model 101" in T2, much better than the one in T1 (because of the real human skin & flesh that healed?). I don't know kung yung Terminator model or variant ni Arnie sa T3 is even better than the one in T2 (because of the double fuel cells?). Parang celfone, 'no? Madali ring ma-obsolete.

Sa akin OK na yung T1 & T2. Tight pa yung meshing nung dalawang istorya. But last Saturday I came out of the cinema confused and disappointed with T4.

You're just making that up. :)

horge
06-03-2009, 01:23
Nah... my own memory cells are fried after sitting through T4.

Allegra
06-03-2009, 02:57
BOGs please lang , paki schedule na ang next gimik
A few of our members need a life yata heehee

Biro lang braders
Anong model ba ni Marcus? Shoot na sa balde hindi pa naka score
Dapat ireformat yun

darwin25
06-15-2009, 06:12
ok Horge, don't say "I told you so"

I gave in to the urge. I've seen the movie and the story is really bad. And I thought Christian Bale acting up during the shoot is bad enough. The movie is really bad.

horge
06-15-2009, 13:58
ok Horge, don't say "I told you so"

I gave in to the urge. I've seen the movie and the story is really bad. And I thought Christian Bale acting up during the shoot is bad enough. The movie is really bad.

D,
You couldn't help watching that trainwreck,
and so now, I can't help saying it.

"I told you so".
:tongueout:

Eye Cutter
06-15-2009, 17:40
horge: you saw Pelham 123 already? ang galing talaga gumawa ng istorya ng mga american screenwriters! the whole movie kept you glued to your seats just listening to the tirades of travolta and denzel in 2 very simple set designs! the subway car and the control center! 2 thumbs up!

pero there was a booboo moment when they showed a close-up of the walther ppk the police lieutenant gave to garber and in the next scenes, garber pulled out a kahr from the bag

jasonub
06-15-2009, 17:59
pero there was a booboo moment when they showed a close-up of the walther ppk the police lieutenant gave to garber and in the next scenes, garber pulled out a kahr from the bag


transformers the movie?:upeyes:

horge
06-15-2009, 20:38
horge: you saw Pelham 123 already? ang galing talaga gumawa ng istorya ng mga american screenwriters! the whole movie kept you glued to your seats just listening to the tirades of travolta and denzel in 2 very simple set designs! the subway car and the control center! 2 thumbs up!

pero there was a booboo moment when they showed a close-up of the walther ppk the police lieutenant gave to garber and in the next scenes, garber pulled out a kahr from the bag

I'm actually going to catch it in just few hours, Doc :)

transformers the movie?:upeyes:

Bossing jason,
I'd love to have an M1911 that 'transforms' into a Soltam 155 :)

h.

horge
06-16-2009, 16:23
We got to watch "The Taking of Pelham 123" yesterday afternoon.

An action-drama easily worth the ticket price! :)
It goes along at a fairly fast clip, and the plot is pretty straightforward.
The Denzel-Travolta chemistry is great, tighter than the original version's
Matthau-Shaw, and the movie's visuals are satisfyingly more adrenal.

Cons? The Scott brothers may need to move on to something beyond
their jitter-cam fixation, and, an opportunity to add much more meaningful
twists, past the original plot, might have been lost --but if you haven't seen
the original, it might not matter so much to you anyway.

I was digging all the elderly folks watching in the theater (Trinoma).
They'd probably seen the original in the 70's and were now having a great
time, although some sounded close to wanting a Dramamine, as early as
the opening credits.... lol.

h.

PS: Doc was right. There's a glaring continuity error with respect to
the make of Garber's hideaway pistol. Galing talaga ni bossing EyeCutter!

mc_oliver
06-19-2009, 14:16
Back to terminator, watching at at lo-res, small screen and crushed audio, movie ain't so bad. :supergrin: