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CatsMeow
05-31-2009, 22:05
Hi all,

I gave in to my wanderlust last Saturday and expended my first tankful of Petron E10:supergrin: on a drive to Pangasinan and back. On a whim I headed over to the Pangasinan provincial capitol in Lingayen (and the amazing avenue going there). Right behind the Capitol is a museum dedicated to the landing by the Americans in World War II there. Here are some pics:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3159.jpg

I have no idea what this plane is. It looks like a T-6 Texan trainer, but had fixed landing gear. Anyway it's in rather bad shape. A close-up of its engine:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3183.jpg

CatsMeow
05-31-2009, 22:09
M-24 Chafee light tank. There were two of them. I had no idea we had these tanks before:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3170.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3162.jpg

The "ass end" of one of them. The engine compartment was empty. It was powered by two Cadillac 442 V-8s.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3173.jpg

CatsMeow
05-31-2009, 23:04
Twin 40mm anti-aircraft gun:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3164.jpg

Another naval gun:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3178.jpg

The beach beyond. The frowning skies did not faze the beachgoers.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/IMG_3154.jpg

Clusterbomb
06-01-2009, 03:29
The M-24 Chaffees in your pics remind me of Telly Savalas and his crew in "The Battle of the Bulge". I've come to like Chaffees ever since my dad brought me along to see that movie in its first run (1966 yata yun) at the Cinerama moviehouse in Quiapo.

I don't think Chaffees were ever part of Phil. Army inventory. They were probably unserviceable units left behind by the Kanos. Sana they just painted them in olive drab and not in urban camo.

CatsMeow
06-01-2009, 04:15
Try YouTube, especially the "Tanks in Town" part. The roar of a pair of V-8s is really something. Too bad our office internet doesn't allow it, I can only use my personal laptop wifi to get it.

I liked the scene in Battle of the Bulge when the Chaffees deployed by making a 90 degree turn left from the road, as only tracked vehicles can. Since then filmmakers will no longer dare use modern tanks in World War II movies; at least in Kelly's Heroes, and Saving Private Ryan, they made Tiger lookalikes from T-34s. Although, nowadays, you can now see in YouTube a running Royal Tiger, Tiger, and Panther.

horge
06-01-2009, 05:46
I don't think Chaffees were ever part of Phil. Army inventory. They were probably unserviceable units left behind by the Kanos. Sana they just painted them in olive drab and not in urban camo.

:)

Actually, durting the Korean War, PEFTOK's 10th BCT(M) had seven (7)
M24 Chaffees, provided by the US. The original arrangement had been
for surplus M4 Shermans, since we had earlier lost 17 prepositioned M4's
during a NoKor assault... but materiel was short, and we got Chaffees.

TRIVIA:
Did you know that the M24 displayed in Lingayen used to sport Japanese
markings? Apparently it was mistaken for an enemy tank by the folks
setting up the static displays.

CatsMeow
06-01-2009, 18:30
Well, at a certain angle, they do kinda look like Japanese tanks, for those not in the know, as compared with its larger successor, the M41 Walker Bulldog, which the PA definitely used.

Now that gives me an idea for another outing, it seems in San Pablo, Laguna, they have a Japanese Type 89 Chi-Ro medium tank...:supergrin:

Another trivia: the Japanese pioneered the use of diesel engines in tanks, air-cooled diesels as a matter of fact.

horge
06-01-2009, 19:00
:)

If it was up to me, I'd procure/revive a handful of M24, as FSV's
for our ground troops. Old as they are, if re-engined and regunned,
they'd likely be better armored than ANY current LABde asset.

Clusterbomb
06-01-2009, 23:47
:)

Actually, durting the Korean War, PEFTOK's 10th BCT(M) had seven (7)
M24 Chaffees, provided by the US. The original arrangement had been
for surplus M4 Shermans, since we had earlier lost 17 prepositioned M4's
during a NoKor assault... but materiel was short, and we got Chaffees.



Did the Chaffees remain here for our local use? Or were they shipped and used diretso sa Korea? I can't remember seeing any Phil Army pics of Chaffees being used here (ex. training, parades, etc.). Shermans yes and M-41 Walker Bulldogs too.

In the 60s Nestor De Villa starred in a war flick titled "Nagbabagang Lupa" for Premiere Productions. He played the role of a Japanese officer chasing the Pinoy heroes in (of all things) a Sherman tank(!). The variant used was the one that had a cast steel hull, with rounded corners in the front sloping armor. Since sya yung contrabida, patay sya dun sa movie, ha-ha.

horge
06-03-2009, 01:32
Did the Chaffees remain here for our local use? Or were they shipped and used diretso sa Korea? I can't remember seeing any Phil Army pics of Chaffees being used here (ex. training, parades, etc.). Shermans yes and M-41 Walker Bulldogs too.

PEFTOK took possession of the Chaffees in Korea, and brought 'em home,
here, when the fighting was done.

The Chaffees were active for only a very brief time after the Korean War.
They were stationed (along with Shermans) at Ft. McKinley, later known
as Fort Bonifacio, at the Armor School. They seem to have hung on until
about '58. A few years later, the Army began accepting delivery of what
would eventually total seven (7) M41 Walker Bulldogs.

The M24 displayed at Lingayen is one of the ex-PEFTOK hulls.
Photos of the Philippine Army M24 Chaffees are VERY hard to find, but
there's a marginal shot of one at the PEFTOK display in a .mil museum
...in Korea.

CatsMeow
06-03-2009, 02:55
Here's a real live M24 Chaffee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AnQi6gNqsA&feature=related

Anything can be made to run with a lot of moolah and patience.:supergrin: Even the Japanese GSDF got a Type 89 running for display.

Clusterbomb
06-03-2009, 20:22
I liked the scene in Battle of the Bulge when the Chaffees deployed by making a 90 degree turn left from the road, as only tracked vehicles can. Since then filmmakers will no longer dare use modern tanks in World War II movies;



Is that the scene where they swung into position at the bottom of the gully? That was a typical tank turn di ba- slowing the speed of the left tracks relative to the speed of the right tracks.

Look this up: The scene where they damaged a "Tiger" (an M-47) with a bazooka at the early part of the offensive. Hessler (Robert Shaw) then ordered the tank to get off the road because it was blocking the others behind it.

It executed a 90 degree pivot about its own axis using cross-drive- something a Tiger could not do. Info on the Net say the M-47 was the first American tank capable of cross-drive.

If you have a copy of the movie "A Bridge Too Far", take a close look at the German tanks there. I can swear they used Leopards 1s. Maybe you can confirm this.

CatsMeow
06-03-2009, 21:31
Perhaps they could be Leopard 1s, I don't have a copy but I'll check. Definitely not American as I recall. But the best part is the rest of the equipment were genuine, :supergrin: M4s, German halftracks (this time they didn't use American M3s!); there was even a scene with a real German RSO tractor towing an antitank gun.

I got a book by Ralph Zumbro entitled "Tank Sergeant", recounting his experience jungle-fighting with an M48 in Vietnam, where they used the cross-drive capability to "neutral-steer" by spinning around in one spot, useful for destroying VC bunkers, and in one instance, getting back at a Vietnamese PX manager who was angry at them for bringing a tank into the parking lot.:supergrin:

Clusterbomb
06-04-2009, 00:43
I got a book by Ralph Zumbro entitled "Tank Sergeant", recounting his experience jungle-fighting with an M48 in Vietnam, where they used the cross-drive capability to "neutral-steer" by spinning around in one spot, useful for destroying VC bunkers, and in one instance, getting back at a Vietnamese PX manager who was angry at them for bringing a tank into the parking lot.:supergrin:



Oh I read that book too!

Yeah, they'd clamber up the top of the bunker and use the vibration caused by all that weight and steering to cause the concrete to fail. What I don't remember now is why they had to resort to that instead of shooting the bunkers shut or burning them out with M48s with flamethrower capability.

CatsMeow
06-04-2009, 19:23
If I recall, they didn't have M67s (flamethrower M48s), and they used High Explosive Plastic rounds to seal bunkers. Mostly they used cannister rounds.

I loved the part where Ralph took care of a VC hiding behind a water buffalo.:supergrin: Or what he did to the Lambretta ditty wagon driver who refused to let them overtake...:supergrin:

That book really dispels the myth that armor cannot be used in the jungle. So there's no reason why we can't do the same, even with vintage M24s.

Clusterbomb
06-04-2009, 20:08
That book really dispels the myth that armor cannot be used in the jungle. So there's no reason why we can't do the same, even with vintage M24s.



Yes- in limited tactical sweeps the tank can be effectively used in the jungle. Not acting alone of course, but as a compliment to infantry.

BTW, have you ever read anything about our Scorpions using their guns in skirmishes with rebels in Mindanao? Seems the only ones that get to fire their guns are the V-150s and the Simbas. We always see them in action in local news footages. Personally I wish the government bought the Scimitar version na lang.

CatsMeow
06-04-2009, 21:39
Actually I didn't even know if Scorpions are being used in Mindanao, it's usually the wheeled APCs. Plus our Scorpions are the original Jaguar-powered ones so they are more flammable...

horge
06-04-2009, 22:13
Actually I didn't even know if Scorpions are being used in Mindanao, it's usually the wheeled APCs. Plus our Scorpions are the original Jaguar-powered ones so they are more flammable...

Hi again, sir :)

Beginning in 2007, the Army had a program to replace the Scorpions'
original Jaguar J60 gasoline engines with Cummins 6BT5-9 Diesel Automatics,
and modding the transmission to match the change in rpms.

The Scorpions have definitely been used in Mindanao. Here's a fairly recent photo
from late last year, at Sasa Wharf in Davao:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2qsudu9.jpg
http://cmoladiv.multiply.com/photos/album/67/LAKAN_NASA_MINDANAO_NA#

The limited elevation of the Scorpion's main gun really restricts it to direct fire.
Medyo sayang. For a number of reasons it has been eclipsed to some extent by
the more-multiroled AIFV's, but it's still a valuable asset, one that the boots on
the ground appreciate having around.

Cheers,
:)
h

akula
06-05-2009, 00:30
PEFTOK took possession of the Chaffees in Korea, and brought 'em home,
here, when the fighting was done.

The Chaffees were active for only a very brief time after the Korean War.
They were stationed (along with Shermans) at Ft. McKinley, later known
as Fort Bonifacio, at the Armor School. They seem to have hung on until
about '58. A few years later, the Army began accepting delivery of what
would eventually total seven (7) M41 Walker Bulldogs.

The M24 displayed at Lingayen is one of the ex-PEFTOK hulls.
Photos of the Philippine Army M24 Chaffees are VERY hard to find, but
there's a marginal shot of one at the PEFTOK display in a .mil museum
...in Korea.

H,

Thanks for this informative info. There had been discussion on this at Timawa.Net, but no one could make a conclusive statement on them. It was thought that a couple of Chaffees were donated by Japan as part of war reparation.

Indeed there was a glimpse of the M24 at Korean War museum as posted at Timawa.

akula
06-05-2009, 00:38
CatsMeow,

Thanks for the nice M24 photos. It looks like at least the exterior paint is being maintained.

CatsMeow
06-07-2009, 21:51
Oh can't believe I missed that.:embarassed: And me visiting timawa every day; used to hang out with Doc PF, CB and CD at Kamagong... Anyway I always thought the available re-engining for the Scorpion was the Perkins Phaser diesel.

Akula, you're welcome, a perusal of the two tanks shows that while the outside condition is ok, those tracks have sections missing.

Hopefully the next time I'm in Laguna I'll take some photos of that Japanese Type 89 Chi-Ro.