ccw questions concerning concealment and when SHTF [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : ccw questions concerning concealment and when SHTF


pcguy
06-15-2009, 18:06
I am somewhat confused on the rules concerning concealment, carrying in a vehicle, and when it becomes legal to remove the weapon.

Let's lay out a scenario, your pulled into an unfamiliar area such as a gas station or parking lot, still in or next to the driver door of the car, and notice some questionable individual(s) approaching you. Are you legally bound to not get the gun close/ready but still concealed, or holstered until you determine the situation?

Ie, is it entirely illegal to say stand concealed by a slightly open car door, and actually draw the weapon in a hidden fashion, but fingers nowhere near the trigger in a make ready fashion? I am not talking about waving it around yelling and drawing attention, I mean simply getting it ready should things go bad quickly, hidden from view. perhaps still holstered but in your hands.... These are gray areas to me, and not well discussed from what I have seen. There are many situations that put you on high alert, when you are in transitional phases, not carrying on the person easily drawn. Or is th best solution to carry on your person concealed even while in the car? this can become quite uncomfortable considering seat belts and confined seating.

njl
06-15-2009, 18:47
When I took the class, we were told you don't draw until you're justified in firing. Drawing for anything less is brandishing. If you have your CWP, and want to carry, keep it on your person concealed until time to shoot. If you don't have the permit, get off your butt and get it [while you can].

pcguy
06-15-2009, 20:45
I already do my best by not putting myself into those situations. I stay home at night, or close to home. Don't "hang out" anywhere but indoors, or on private property. Work and home and shopping. daylight mostly. familiar places. This tends to keep me safe for the most part. I believe a lot of self defense is common sense, and minimizing exposure to risky situations to begin with. This is also excellent advice to avoiding putting yourself in visible situations to tempt the law enforcement meat grinder. If your not visible, your not going to be a tempting snack for an anxious law enforcement officer.

M4G's
06-15-2009, 21:45
You have a ccw to protect yourself and loved ones. Actually anyone being harmed physically.
In a scenerio of danger and high stress possibilities you do what you have to in assuring you leave out of that situation unharmed. If it means moving into a grey area and it is not an obvious insult to the law(s) you do it. If you can put a weapon between your knees cause of a possible danger moving closer, do it. (out of the eyes of the public obviously) Just don't form bad habits. If your the "gets frightened easily" type you better visualize scenerios ahead. Otherwise bad habits will form naturally. To protect myself i will automatically start thinking "grey areas" & lawfull limits. Sometimes thinking gets you hurt or worse. Thats the agreement when you ask for your ccw. Always respect the rules. The laws.
Within the law ,i'll do anything to gain advantage over a bg or dangerous possiblle situation. Out of the eyes of the public ,i might act in a grey area for my safety. It would have to be a very light shade of grey though.
To protect my loved ones ,i'll do anything. Literally anything. No matter Grey ,black ,white or orange areas... Anything ! And that does'nt mean i would break the law. To protect them ,i'm just sayin i might disregard what i would otherwise consider better judgement or discretion towards protecting myself alone. Grey areas exsist. You just have to know when it's dangerous to regard them or not. Excuse my blog. Won't happen again.

Mr. Blandings
06-16-2009, 00:15
Let's lay out a scenario, your pulled into an unfamiliar area such as a gas station or parking lot, still in or next to the driver door of the car, and notice some questionable individual(s) approaching you. Are you legally bound to not get the gun close/ready but still concealed, or holstered until you determine the situation?In your scenario, the very best thing to do is get back in the car and drive away. Problem solved, suspicious characters avoided, potentially hostile situation avoided.

Although Florida has enacted "Stand Your Ground" as the law of the land it will take decades before the courts decide exactly what rights we have under the new law.

If you access your firearm and make ready you would face the inevitable question of, "Why did you prepare for a fight instead of departing the area?" Which opens the door for LE / prosecutor to assert that you engaged in "mutual combat" rather than self-defense. Even if you eventually emerge from the "law enforcement meat grinder", as you rather aptly describe it, it may cost years of your life and several tens of thousands of dollars.Or is th best solution to carry on your person concealed even while in the car? this can become quite uncomfortable considering seat belts and confined seating.Yes, the very best practice is to carry concealed on your person as often as legally possible. Off body carry leads to handguns being forgotten, left behind, and more easily stolen by criminals. Where a vehicle is concerned, off body carry can lead to scrambling to find your handgun when you desperately need it (as shown in the FBI's gun battle with Matix and Platt in Miami circa 1986).

If you don't already own it, get a copy of attorney Jon Gutmacher's excellent book Florida Firearms: Law, Use & Ownership (http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/p/Florida-Firearms-Law-Use-Ownership-Book.html). You may find the answers & information you seek. Also, check out his excellent website, FloridaFirearmsLaw.com (http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/), which gives some great explanations of common offenses, their elements, etc. Mr. Gutmacher also maintains a blog, The Orlando Criminal Lawyer (http://orlandocriminallawyer.blogspot.com/) where he discusses interesting cases and news of note from around the state. Reading just a few of his entries will convince you of how very much you should do everything possible to avoid getting caught in the "law enforcement meat grinder."

pcguy
06-16-2009, 17:46
believe me, beat feet is my primary method of avoidance if at all possible. When it comes to my home however, that's not a beat feet situation. Which brings up another interesting scenario that we all need to be aware of. The no knock warrant and swat team activity. Law enforcement has been known on more than just a few occasions to have performed a so called "no knock" warrant on the wrong address. I would be willing to be it has happened enough for it to be far more likely to be the police bashing in your front door than a criminal. So just exactly how are we supposed to tell the difference between the police swat team and a bunch of crooks in the dead of night, smashing in your door. If you hold a gun when the swat team breaks in, your one dead mofo.......

M4G's
06-18-2009, 23:38
WOW ,Don't even wanna think about it. Mostly because your not wrong when saying "IT HAPPENS"

Of course ,always remove yourself whenever you can. Honestly ,to save the grief involved with all the red tape ,if it was at all possible ,i would even go as far to say i would get out(of my home) if i could without firing a shot. It's called my "let em have it" rule. As long as leaving could be done safely ,i rather do that but that is usually very unlikely. Away from the home ,leaving is the first thought. But you know car jackings ,just for instance usually never happen to a car that can just floor the pedal. the car blocked in by either another car or any obstacle is usually a better target for scum. Leaving is a rare option if your targeted by someone with even halph a brain. Thats why moving your weapon from a holster to between your kness to be poised for reaction is not always bad or questionable. You can't sit at a keyboard and figure it all out.
You leave when you can but prepare if/when you can. Otherwise your ccw is excess weight.

mac59
06-22-2009, 10:46
Never be ashamed to trust your inner voice -- years ago i worked nights and would get out 11pm-midnight. I would stop at 7-11 to pick up a snack or something and a few times when i pulled in i saw a few guys standing in front at the edge of the store. As i parked one or more would start to walk over toward the front door where i would enter. I backed out and went elsewhere or home. Something just hit me wrong about the situation. Paranoid - maybe, but safe.

pcguy
06-22-2009, 20:04
I avoid convenience stores late at night, unless it is well lit, and lot's of people around. This has been much easier now that I no longer smoke :)

BSG62
06-23-2009, 12:05
Although Florida has enacted "Stand Your Ground" as the law of the land it will take decades before the courts decide exactly what rights we have under the new law.


I disagree. There's already case law, and it has established a very broad extent to which one may stand their ground.

one"Lucky"shot
06-23-2009, 14:42
It sounds like you have some very 'safe' habits. Don't discount your guts. LOTS of crimes happen in daylight. I don't agree with all of your thoughts and feelings, but it is your life to live.
Under the law (not a lawyer, you’re not paying for this info..... from the internet) you don't have to run away if your life, or those around you, are in fear of great bodily harm. And there is nothing wrong with being prepared, bringing a weapon that is still concealed in your car, but much closer is ok. IF you want to REALY put yourself on the side of the law, get a cheap holster with a thumb snap. The law states "a snapped holster".
There are quite a few scenarios that allow a civilian to defend them self and use deadly force, even when there is not a life in imminent danger.

glockpacker
06-26-2009, 14:35
I pocket carry a Glock 27 in a pocket holster. Both sides of the trigger guard are completely protected. When I see "something funny" developing, I can slip my right hand in my pocket, and get a good grip on the 27. That tends to give one a feeling of somewhat security. I like it a lot.

It's comfortable sitting in the car with it, but much more difficult to draw from a seated position.

With any method of carry, there are trade-offs. This one works for me.

M4G's
07-03-2009, 23:30
Are you sure you have enough hardware there glockpacker :rofl: Enjoy.