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Scouse
06-24-2009, 16:29
In Orlando,

Bought an AK 47 a year ago, no time to shoot much, finally did, failure to extracts galore, two visits to gunsmith, no fix!

Any advise for a non mechanical kind of guy? A good AK47 mechanic? Some one who specializes in the AK.

I just want to load mags and shoot it.

You can email me if you like.

Aceman
06-24-2009, 16:48
Paging Dr. Carlos....

Whatever the issue you will need a hammer, a screwdriver, and maybe a chisel. Seriously. But the prognosis will probably be good!

pennlineman
06-24-2009, 18:24
Just a few thoughts. Have you ever cleaned it, is it full of cosmoline? This would give you problems. Can you manually extract the rounds or is the extractor slipping off of the cartridge? Check under the extractor for cosmoline, metal shavings etc. Not all that uncommon on a new AK. Also make sure the gas system is clean. Maybe try a different type of ammo. After this I would get new extractor spring and maybe even an extractor if the old one looks worn.

Scouse
06-24-2009, 20:04
Just a few thoughts. Have you ever cleaned it, is it full of cosmoline? This would give you problems. Can you manually extract the rounds or is the extractor slipping off of the cartridge? Check under the extractor for cosmoline, metal shavings etc. Not all that uncommon on a new AK. Also make sure the gas system is clean. Maybe try a different type of ammo. After this I would get new extractor spring and maybe even an extractor if the old one looks worn.

The Gunsmith said he had replaced the extractor spring, and the extractor was good? I have a desire to sell it! I have a Steyr AUG, and never had a malfunction from it, a AR15 from Rock River, perfect, the best trigger I have ever had.

Just wanted an AK47? Might un want it at the next gun show.

Thank you.

Aceman
06-24-2009, 20:17
Slow down scouse! don't be so rash - there is nothing (almost) on an AK that can't be fixed with a hammer and some gumption. Let's give it a little more examination. Once you clear this up, you'll love it.

Then again, you have a Steyr. Maybe not. That's kind of the anti-AK.

mrmedina
06-25-2009, 07:35
Scouse, please start over.
From the beginning, What brand of country,caliber, Pics if possible.
Please give more info on your FTEs issue ammo brands?
We can help, please give more detailed info.

Scouse
06-25-2009, 17:29
Scouse, please start over.
From the beginning, What brand of country,caliber, Pics if possible.
Please give more info on your FTEs issue ammo brands?
We can help, please give more detailed info.


AK47 762X39 Wolf ammo, right folding stock, pack of 10 steel magazines, new, Bulgarian? 1981/ah2593 D.C. FND Inc. Saint Paul MN

Scouse

Aurora
06-26-2009, 15:26
D.C. industries out of St.Paul..... owned it for a year......It sounds like a kit build.

There are a lot of myths about the AK that are not true. They do break, they do malfunction, they do not work dirty ..........and they do take skill to build properly.

If you want to take a crack at fixing it yourself I would suggest that Glocktalk isn't the best place to ask for AK-specific information. There are some very knowledgeable people over at akfiles.com and theakforum.net that could help you out.

The only other option is to send it to someone who specializes in the AK. It'll probably cost you something to send it to someone who has a detailed understanding of the platform.

Personally, I would sell it if a detailed inspection and cleaning doesn't reveal an obvious fault. I don't like having to mess with something that's not built right from the beginning. Either it's right or it's not.

V.

Scouse
06-26-2009, 15:55
I don't like having to mess with something that's not built right from the beginning. Either it's right or it's not.

Sounds smart to me.

Thanks.

Mike.

uzimon
06-26-2009, 18:34
the american reciever/kit guns are 10x more problematic than com bloc guns.
it's extremely rare to hear of a norinco, maadi, or bulgarian having a problem

Flinter
06-26-2009, 19:21
the american reciever/kit guns are 10x more problematic than com bloc guns

Not when built properly. Go to one of the above mentioned forums and you will see 10X American reciever/kit guns that put the ComBloc guns to shame.

mrmedina
06-27-2009, 03:02
Not when built properly. Go to one of the above mentioned forums and you will see 10X American reciever/kit guns that put the ComBloc guns to shame.


Thats the million dollar question, was the build done correctly.
Scouse, please PM CarlosC. http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4103
Maybe he can give better info on that bulid. If not, try some gunshops in the Orlando area for a gunsmith. And have them look at it.

uzimon
06-27-2009, 09:48
Not when built properly. Go to one of the above mentioned forums and you will see 10X American reciever/kit guns that put the ComBloc guns to shame.

i've been on gunsnet for maybe 4-5 years now.
by far the threads regarding ak issues are with us made aks/parts guns.
century guns being some of the worst.
those and wasr's.
it would take me all day to find someone who has an issue with a bulgarian or norinco.
the only problem i EVER had with my bulgie sa93?
when i put an american piston in it, for the 922r thing.
that pos warped the 1st range trip.
put the bulgie piston back in, works like a champ
http://i39.tinypic.com/25qw38y.jpg

i have the internal block on the way, gonna cut the tang.
have 2 drums coming too, a bulgarianand s. korean.
have roughly 1600 rds too:cool:

Flinter
06-27-2009, 19:34
Good luck with the S. Korea mag. Heard they can be hit or miss. I've got 2 40rd SK mags and not a problem with either of them yet, but others have had them self destruct on the first range trip.

uzimon
06-27-2009, 19:39
Good luck with the S. Korea mag. Heard they can be hit or miss. I've got 2 40rd SK mags and not a problem with either of them yet, but others have had them self destruct on the first range trip.
yea, i might just dump it, nib.
shhh don't tell anyone, ok?:cool:

jdavionic
06-27-2009, 19:52
I've built AKs from demilled kits and might be able to help. Can you be more specific of the failure to extract? Do you have any witness marks on the bottom of the spent case where it contacts the ejector?

Nicoroshi
06-27-2009, 20:13
I've built AKs from demilled kits and might be able to help. Can you be more specific of the failure to extract? Do you have any witness marks on the bottom of the spent case where it contacts the ejector?

I too am a builder. I have had my hand in 4 Romy 'G' kit rebuilds to date (all of which run flawless btw).
I am also curious for more information on the FTE issue.

Issue #1: Is the case still in the chamber after firing, and jamming the next round into the spent case on cycle?

Issue #2: Or is the spent case being pulled from the chamber but not clearing the chamber before the next round is stripped off the mag during cycle?

If it's issue number one I would take apart the bolt, and check on the extractor spring.(Note: Should have to press hard on the extractor to remove the retaining pin in the bolt). Broken? Too short?
I would also check the extractor itself. Cracked or broken extractor hook? Build up of gunk under the hook?

If it's issue number two then either (IMO) it's an issue with the ejector. Angle of ejector tip? Ejector too short, and not impacting case bottom?
Or with the gas system (i.e. short cycle).
Gas piston hitting gas port (look for dents or chips on the piston face).
Carrier piston extension (couldn't think of a better name for that piece :P)
rubbing on the side of the rear sight block during cycle?

That is where I would start my diagnosis of the problem.
These issues can be easily corrected with the replacement of cheaply found parts or some TLC aligning the parts (with the exception of a too short ejector).

Don't sell it. AKs are simple. Diagnosis, and repair.

jdavionic
06-27-2009, 20:20
I too am a builder. I have had my hand in 4 Romy 'G' kit rebuilds to date (all of which run flawless btw).
I am also curious for more information on the FTE issue.

Issue #1: Is the case still in the chamber after firing, and jamming the next round into the spent case on cycle?

Issue #2: Or is the spent case being pulled from the chamber but not clearing the chamber before the next round is stripped off the mag during cycle?

If it's issue number one I would take apart the bolt, and check on the extractor spring.(Note: Should have to press hard on the extractor to remove the retaining pin in the bolt). Broken? Too short?
I would also check the extractor itself. Cracked or broken extractor hook? Build up of gunk under the hook?

If it's issue number two then either (IMO) it's an issue with the ejector. Angle of ejector tip? Ejector too short, and not impacting case bottom?
Or with the gas system (i.e. short cycle).
Gas piston hitting gas port (look for dents or chips on the piston face).
Carrier piston extension (couldn't think of a better name for that piece :P)
rubbing on the side of the rear sight block during cycle?

That is where I would start my diagnosis of the problem.
These issues can be easily corrected with the replacement of cheaply found parts or some TLC aligning the parts (with the exception of a too short ejector).

Don't sell it. AKs are simple. Diagnosis, and repair.

Agreed. Good points. While I wasn't thrilled at the time, building my AKs provided me with a good amount of info as to what could go wrong...unfortunately :supergrin: Nothing real bad and nothing that couldn't be fixed. Just lessons learned.

Aurora
06-27-2009, 21:00
I'm kind of torn as to whether it's good thing to do a lot of work on your own rifle. On one hand, it's good to know the fine details to the point where you can build or fix you own rifle. On the other hand, you probably won't need those extensive skills if you buy right the first time. Both approaches have their respective advantages.

Personally, problems beyond simple parts replacement intimidate me. I've replaced a chipped extractor but that's the extent of my gunsmithing skills. I really haven't needed anything more extensive, skills wise, since I'm picky about what I buy in the first place.

I think there are a lot of people doing commercial builds that shouldn't be doing them (Century). Being a little bit of a snob may cost you more money when you buy something but I think it's worth it in the end.

Maybe I'm wrong. That extractor sure was hard to install.

V.

Scouse
06-27-2009, 21:42
You guys know a lot more than I!!

I seem to remember a top AK builder goes to the Fairground (gun show), might drop in to see him tomorrow. It did work well when I first got it.

Very accurate, shoots to exact point of aim at 50 yds. Despite those sights.

Thanks again.

Nicoroshi
06-27-2009, 22:41
I'm kind of torn as to whether it's good thing to do a lot of work on your own rifle. On one hand, it's good to know the fine details to the point where you can build or fix you own rifle. On the other hand, you probably won't need those extensive skills if you buy right the first time. Both approaches have their respective advantages.

Personally, problems beyond simple parts replacement intimidate me. I've replaced a chipped extractor but that's the extent of my gunsmithing skills. I really haven't needed anything more extensive, skills wise, since I'm picky about what I buy in the first place.

I think there are a lot of people doing commercial builds that shouldn't be doing them (Century). Being a little bit of a snob may cost you more money when you buy something but I think it's worth it in the end.

Maybe I'm wrong. That extractor sure was hard to install.

V.

In the liberal playground I live in (California) it appealed to me to legally build my own rifle (couple of them actually) from a destroyed (cut receiver) Romanian 'G' kit.
This rifle(s) Cost me less than buying one, and making it California compliant (SB23), and the one's I was looking at buying were nothing more than destroyed kits that a class 7 FFL dealer had rebuilt to sell anyway.
This provided me the knowledge to not only repair anything that might go wrong with my rifle but also build it exactly to specifications I expect things I own to be built to (basically cut 'bubba the gunsmith' out of the loop).
I also learned all about the laws pertaining to building your own rifle (922(r), SB23, NFA, etc).
These also did not require any FFL transfer as the receiver I built myself, and the rest of the parts are not considered a firearm (i.e. can mail them directly to your home).
In the end I am a builder by nature anyway. I do woodwork, metal work, create 3D models for computer game mods, and build high rise buildings, and labs in the Bay Area (occupation).
Finally shooting a rifle you built with your own two hands (especially when it shoots great!) is a feeling like no other.
Granted it's not for everyone but for those who are mechanically inclined it makes a fun project. :)
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5070/dscn2862.jpg

Aurora
06-28-2009, 03:56
Finally shooting a rifle you built with your own two hands (especially when it shoots great!) is a feeling like no other.
Granted it's not for everyone but for those who are mechanically inclined it makes a fun project. :)

Actually, I agree with you. There is a certain virtue to building something with your own hands, to your own specifications. It's also a good thing to know the fine details of a weapons internals.

There is another (current) reason to build your own rifle; lowered standards. Based on some of the builds I've seen recently, manufacturers are cranking these rifles out as fast as they can. I have three rifles made by my builder of choice and there is a world of difference between his work of today and his work of two or three years ago. He is definitely rushing things out the door to meet current demand.

I plan on building a couple of Romanian kits just to make sure that they're done the way I want them. However, I'm not arrogant enough to think that my skill level is anywhere near a professional gunsmith with 10 to 20 years of experience. Thinking that way is nothing but trouble.

A man's got to know his limitations.

V.

jdavionic
06-28-2009, 06:54
Actually, I agree with you. There is a certain virtue to building something with your own hands, to your own specifications. It's also a good thing to know the fine details of a weapons internals.

There is another (current) reason to build your own rifle; lowered standards. Based on some of the builds I've seen recently, manufacturers are cranking these rifles out as fast as they can. I have three rifles made by my builder of choice and there is a world of difference between his work of today and his work of two or three years ago. He is definitely rushing things out the door to meet current demand.

I plan on building a couple of Romanian kits just to make sure that they're done the way I want them. However, I'm not arrogant enough to think that my skill level is anywhere near a professional gunsmith with 10 to 20 years of experience. Thinking that way is nothing but trouble.

A man's got to know his limitations.

V.

If you decide to do your own build, you can vary the level of complexity depending upon what you start with for a receiver. I used flats, developed & built the tooling, bent them, etc. Some folks just buy a finished lower recevier. Others buy them bent with no machining on them.

Just get a good kit to start with and take it slow. There are plenty of websites out there that help. For LR, I found this one to be very helpful
http://www.gunsgutsandgod.com/index.htm

Nicoroshi
06-28-2009, 07:12
I agree that I have no where near the experience of a seasoned gunsmith. I do however understand mechanical things really well (have done motor controls/ rebuilds, and did major appliance repair for 5 years before my current 21 years as a sheet metal worker), and pick up information quickly. AKs are relatively simple machines compared to some I have worked on/ re-built in the past.
I agree you need to educate yourself very well on the process of building one, and enlist the help of others that have done it before if you can. Safety with a controlled burn of gunpowder reaching thousands of pounds of pressure is not something to be taken lightly.
I completely agree with jdavionic (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=97323) on his assessment. Take your time, read the tutorials (multiple times), get help from the AK builders on the forums/ build party.
Some of the things that I learned is even following the tutorials there are still things that need to be fitted (Ex(s): Tapco flats have the rail holes in the wrong location for the interior rails to be set at the proper height off the top rail. Tapco double hook FCGs need to fitted to your specific rifle to function correctly http://arizonaresponsesystems.com/ (See:Notes/ Adjusting an AK-47 trigger), Don't paint the rails (learned that the hard way), file>test fit>file>test fit>continue until it's perfect.
My second build went much smoother than my first (except for a flared barrel pin that needed to be drilled out).
In the end if you're mechanically inclined use your common sense, and the resources available to you on the web, and you'll do fine.

The GunsGutsandGod linky above is great. I also found this useful http://howtobuildanaktyperifle.com/

Restless28
06-28-2009, 08:08
I can't afford anything other than a WASR. Reading stuff like this makes me glad that I didn't buy one.

Berto
06-28-2009, 09:00
I'm thinking gas system since the 'Smith has checked extractor.
Easy to check, pull bolt carrier, piston and gas tube, check port for excessive fouling or misaligned bbl and port at gas block.
That's where I'd start, at least.

Scouse
03-29-2010, 04:57
Came across this post from last year, so many good people giving such well thought out advice!

Sold it! Then whilst in a huge pawn shop in Deland, AAA Gun-shop? A customer entered and handed two AKs across, never fired them, had them a long time! WASRS? had the original cavas slings on them, one magazine.

A while later, got the call went in, offered $465.00 OK, out the door, off to the plinking range, got tired loading lots of my originally purchased Wolf steel cased 762X39, and firing, no malfunctions of any nature, shot to point of aim.

Took it out a few times since, same results, it is a safe Queen, but I wanted one, I have one, happy me! And a working one!

My latest rifle, M1 Carbine, like new, sat in some German armory for years, a little dinged, like new internally! No magazines with it, the South Korean ones I bought work kind of alright, but are flimsy.