Today's Women -- Not All, But A Lot [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kurly
07-12-2009, 09:52
I was talking with my Dad the other day and was lamenting the fact that women today are so different than from his generation (He's 72, I'm 40).

Perhaps it's due to the feminist movement or just a shift in general attitude, but I find that a good proportion of women want their cake and eat it too. Simply put, many women of my age and younger like to pick and choose those areas of traditional general responsibilities only if it's too their advantage. Example: a man should take care of all the outside labor, home improvements, anything physical, while a lot of women don't like to or want to cook. Cleaning is usually outsourced to a cleaning service (which I'm definitely in favor of since I think it is pretty drudgerous), but at the same time, what would be the reaction if us men said that we didn't want to do any lawn work, etc. and thought that hiring a landscaper would be a better idea? Or have a limo driver any time we wanted to go on long trips (yes, I believe that most men are relegated to chauffeur responsibilities on trips).

I don't mind doing any of the traditional expectations of a man, yet I find it disheartening that a lot of younger women don't or won't do what's been traditionally expected of them. It's like they want to select those things that will benefit and please them but won't own up or do those things that women have traditionally done that please their man. It's almost as though they feel that to do so would subjugate them to their partner.

I believe that men do some things better than women and women do some things better than men -- and most men would gladly do whatever their wife/girlfriend asks of them as long as we get three things -- affirmation, affection and respect. I'm not a big fan of Dr. Laura but I do believe she's right that we've raised a generation of women who are spoiled brats that expect their husbands/boyfriends to make them happy yet don't have to reciprocate. Thankfully this isn't ALL women, but it seems to be a growing problem....

maybelle
07-12-2009, 10:56
Hmm, maybe I am just part of a small minority...

I work a minimum of 60 hours a week, do all of the grocery shopping, bill paying, cooking, cleaning, yard work and dog clean up. All I absolutely expect my BF to take care of is the trash. And about every other week he forgets to take the can out to the curb.

Mrs.Cicero
07-12-2009, 12:47
Statistically, women still spend twice as much time on housework as men do, while working the same number of hours outside the home.

Personally, I don't work outside the home - I'm a homeschooling mom, and that's my job. Therefore, I don't see it as my husband's job to do anything in particular around the house. I do, however, expect him to clean up after himself. It peeves me to have to pick up after an adult... glasses and plates on the computer desk, dirty laundry anywhere it doesn't belong, that sort of thing. I will wash, dry and fold the laundry, but it is NOT my job to pick it up off the floor after some slobbulous person tosses it there. It's an issue of respect with me; that may be silly, but that's what it is - I am the wife and mother, not the maid service for invalids. When the kids were in diapers, i got up at night and fed and changed them - because Mr.Cicero had to go to work in the morning and I did not. That seems perfectly fair to me. I do a fair portion of the outside work, too - the garden and landscaping are all mine now. I weed and wheelbarrow truckloads of mulch everywhere. I only mow when Mr.C can't get to it (working, bad weather, traveling, whatever). I do climb ladders with torches to burn off tent caterpillars. I do not, however, prune trees from ladders. That is strictly Mr.C's bailiwick. He is also in charge of the cars. I'll take them to get the oil changed if I have to, but i don't do it myself.

I think each couple has to come to an understanding depending on their circumstances - if I worked outside the home, I'd be doing a lot less in it... and a ridiculous portion of my earnings would likely go to paying someone else to do it, and to pay for carryout meals, too. A few (not all) men need to realize that spending 3 hours of every Saturday cleaning the house, and 8 hours per week preparing meals, and 2 hours (ave 6 loads/week) on laundry/ironing, and 3 hours helping kids with homework... is 16 hours...2 full workdays, AND 14 hours more than it takes to mow the lawn... and that didn't include grocery, etc shopping, which NOT all women actually enjoy...
In our case, it has more to do with who is here the most. If I worked and he stayed home, I darn well wouldn't do anything around here except cook when i felt like it. I'd be annoyed with him if he expected me to, except for things it is just more efficient for the person outside to do ("Hey baby, can you stop at the grocery store on your way home, I'm out of garlic again!").

I guess I just think there are just as many men with attitude issues as there are women, on this issue...that is, some, but not all...

Mrs.C

kcb
07-12-2009, 17:12
My husband and I have ALWAYS worked TOGETHER to keep our household going...both inside and out.

Throughout our marriage, different situations have existed regarding work schedules, etc.

I have ALWAYS at the very LEAST helped him with the yardwork and maintaining our home. When I didn't work, I did ALL of the yardwork myself. While it takes me longer to accomplish some of the heavy duty stuff, he says it always LOOKS better when I do it because of my attention to the details.

One summer, I painted the outside of the house by myself. I taught my daughters to do everything, as well and they have homes to be proud of today. Their husbands help them too, especially my oldest daughter. Her husband is awesome, like her dad!

AND he has always helped me with the INSIDE work, too. He doesn't mind helping vacuum, cook, or whatever chore I might ask him to do...and sometimes, I don't have to even ask!

Our marriage has always been 100% 100%. When we had our children, he was wonderful about helping me with the babies. At night, he'd get the baby, change her diaper, and talk to me and the baby while I fed her. We've been in this together from the get go!

If I had my choice, I would have ALWAYS stayed home and been a wife and mother just like my mother and my grandmother. BUT unfortunately, I only got to do that for a few years. I have ALMOST always had to work to help make ends meet. But my wonderful husband has always done everything he can to make the best of that situation.

We BOTH do traditional and non-traditional duties and responsibilities.

Yesterday, while we were doing the yardwork, several men on our street were also doing theirs. He commented how I was the ONLY wife on the block that EVER helped her husband outside! AND I'm sure, I have the only husband that helps me as much as he does inside!

It's a different world, unfortunately. It's nothing like I imagined my life would be. But it has been a good life.

JohnKSa
07-12-2009, 17:39
Pretty pointless thread. You're going to get lots of responses from those who do not fit your description and none from those who do.

For what it's worth, I don't think that it's particularly important that the work is divided according to tradition nor even that it's divided equally or fairly. What's important is that the work is divided in a manner that suits both spouses. That is, both spouses are equally happy (or equally unhappy if you prefer :supergrin:) at the division of labor.

ithaca_deerslayer
07-13-2009, 13:59
Hmm, maybe I am just part of a small minority...

I work a minimum of 60 hours a week, do all of the grocery shopping, bill paying, cooking, cleaning, yard work and dog clean up. All I absolutely expect my BF to take care of is the trash. And about every other week he forgets to take the can out to the curb.

You work too many hours! And you do too much! You two should split the work somehow. Either you do all the inside, and he does all the outside, or some other such split.

I know that's not exactly fair, because riding on a John Deere isn't as hard as doing the dishes. But at least it's something :)

Why does he stay your BF is he isn't doing anything? Or does he do something? Just curious.

ithaca_deerslayer
07-13-2009, 14:06
Statistically, women still spend twice as much time on housework as men do, while working the same number of hours outside the home.

Personally, I don't work outside the home - I'm a homeschooling mom, and that's my job. Therefore, I don't see it as my husband's job to do anything in particular around the house. I do, however, expect him to clean up after himself. It peeves me to have to pick up after an adult... glasses and plates on the computer desk, dirty laundry anywhere it doesn't belong, that sort of thing. I will wash, dry and fold the laundry, but it is NOT my job to pick it up off the floor after some slobbulous person tosses it there. It's an issue of respect with me; that may be silly, but that's what it is - I am the wife and mother, not the maid service for invalids.


Depends on which book you read, as to the exact number, but "twice as much" is a bit of a stretch.

Still, yes, women put more hours in at home.

However, one often overlooked aspect is that the "threshold" is different. In a sense, a woman puts in the hours because she wants to. A man, if left to his own, for example, may just let the dishes pile up for a long time before ever deciding to clean them, or may use paper plates, or may decide to eat out more, or hire a maid, or whatever. If the woman decides to do the dishes before his threshold of action is reached, is that his fault?

In short, a man may be more content to live as a slob, and may prefer to put the hours into other activities.

The interesting feminist counter to that concept is that society judges women more harshly. If you come to my house and the dishes aren't done, do you look more down on me or my wife?

ithaca_deerslayer
07-13-2009, 14:19
I was talking with my Dad the other day and was lamenting the fact that women today are so different than from his generation (He's 72, I'm 40). ...


I don't mind doing any of the traditional expectations of a man, yet I find it disheartening that a lot of younger women don't or won't do what's been traditionally expected of them. It's like they want to select those things that will benefit and please them but won't own up or do those things that women have traditionally done that please their man. It's almost as though they feel that to do so would subjugate them to their partner.



The real generational difference that you and your dad notice is explained by extra-domestic paid labor. Women his age didn't have major full-time, full responsibility jobs to go to. For the most part, they either stayed at home, or worked part-time, or only worked full-time for part of their lifes, or if they did work full-time their income was more supplemental to the needs of the family. I'm saying on average, for his generation (obviously some women were the main bread winner even in the olden days).

Look at kids aged 40 to 50. We are more the transitional generation. Women from that age group grew up seeing job opportunities open up at the same time that the economic status of households declined. Economically, American society peaked in the 1970s and started a decline in the 1980s, and ever since. While household income has gone up, the costs of living have gone up, especially housing costs. Mortages used to be afforded by a single income, but are now more dependent upon a double income.

Part of that is by choice, as Americans upsized to have it all. Larger houses, more cars, big screen tvs, etc. But part of it is rising costs.

The point being, if a woman isn't expected to be the bread winner, then she is more likely to focus her hours in being a home maker. But how can a woman be a bread winner and a home maker at the same time? And how can she do that without attitude?

Squaw Man Wolfer
07-13-2009, 14:49
In today's survival economy, couples are scrambling to get things done anyway, anyhow. Protection against layoff is not gender specific.

Your post is accurate for immature couples whose repaltionship does not actually survive long enough to order the wedding pictures.

It is not accurate for mature couples who find ways to make it work.

Beware Owner
07-13-2009, 15:10
It's like they want to select those things that will benefit and please them but won't own up or do those things that women have traditionally done that please their man. It's almost as though they feel that to do so would subjugate them to their partner.

I've had them tell me that the only way they'll treat a man with as much as a tinge of respect is that he acknowledge that she is superior in every aspect to him. Seriously. Oh, and they still expect the guy to pay for everything, even as she demands where, how, and why, it must be that way. You've got to be kidding me.


I think each couple has to come to an understanding depending on their circumstances -

And this understanding must be fair to the both of them. It is my personal belief that if a man works and the woman doesn't, he must help her when he gets home with the house.

I guess I just think there are just as many men with attitude issues as there are women, on this issue...that is, some, but not all...

Mrs.C

You are absolutely right.

Your post is accurate for immature couples whose repaltionship does not actually survive long enough to order the wedding pictures.

It is not accurate for mature couples who find ways to make it work.

That's why the OP made the distinction between women from his dad's generation and his own.

My opinion and personal experience is this, and it is that I'd really like to know where these people got those statistics from. To this day, I have found that men are cleaner in their abodes, vehicles, and work areas, than females. Yes, starting by myself. My dad is a neat freak. Just about every male I know keeps their quarters neat, clean, smelling good, and tidy. I have people ask me all the time who comes in to clean my office for me. Now, can men maintain their areas while spending less time and effort doing so? Absolutely. What difference does it make, the time that you spend doing the same job, if I can do it just as well in a much shorter time frame? It's called simplicity, meaning that now I can move on to doing other important things, like loading me some bullets. I think that takes statistics and throws them out the window. There are only three women that I see that are clean and organized are; my mother, sister, and a friend of mine. Again, my own observation. It will differ from other's point of view, not invalidating either in any manner. I DO know of some nasty dudes, but they're NOT the majority. Can't say the same for the females I know.

BabyTaz
07-21-2009, 00:04
:zipmouth:

Don't get me started!!

:rofl:

ithaca_deerslayer
07-21-2009, 07:03
:zipmouth:

Don't get me started!!

:rofl:

That's why we are here. :)

SouthernGal
07-21-2009, 09:12
I am engaged and live alone, work a professional job outside the home, don't have kids, do all my yardwork myself (grass cutting/weedeating), do all the housecleaning myself (my place is immaculate and I refuse to hire this out), cook meals (frankly I love to cook), take care of a dog and anything else that needs to be done.

When the fiance is around, he knows I don't like putting in 40 hours, then coming home and putting in another 40 cleaning up.

My mantra is simple: You make the mess, you clean it up. He doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

Dinky
07-22-2009, 07:14
Hmm, maybe I am just part of a small minority...

I work a minimum of 60 hours a week, do all of the grocery shopping, bill paying, cooking, cleaning, yard work and dog clean up. All I absolutely expect my BF to take care of is the trash. And about every other week he forgets to take the can out to the curb.



well than you might need to take his can to the curb.

GlockGalUSA
07-22-2009, 07:40
Without reading every single response on this..... I believe that one of the main differences between women of the current time and women of your fathers generation is... THEY WORK! By choice or because they have been forced to by the need for a two income household, many women of this day and age work a job outside of the home. So enlighten me why, if a woman works the same amount of hours outside the home, as the husband...... is it still her responsibility to do all the housework, cook all the meals, clean up after everyone else.... get my point?? My yard sure isn't beautifully landscaped, I usually have to ask several times for the overflowing trash to be taken out, I'm lucky if the dinner dishes make it to the sink from the table, lord forbid they be rinsed off and stowed in the dishwasher..... So if the wife is working a full time job, same as the husband.... Why does his job end at 5 pm yet hers continues? If you want the good little woman from your Dads generation, I suggest you allow her to be a stay at home wife.

Diesel_Bomber
07-22-2009, 12:34
I don't think fair/traditional/whatever has anything to do with it. People need to communicate enough to know what will make their spouse happy, and then work hard enough to actually make that happen. I see THIS as the problem with most relationships and people these days, and it effects all aspects of life, not just how the chores get divided up.

PinkCat33
07-23-2009, 10:39
It is a different time...and my generation is even more different then yours. It comes down to figuring out what works for both of you. Traditional roles cant play a part in it anymore. I have a wonderful guy that helps out so much around the house and understand that I work like he does. I think it help that my generation has grown up in a different world...one where moms worked. We have also decided to either do apartment or condo living. Its much easier on us, no yard work, and we love it. Of course kids would change everything but we have decided to cross that bridge when it comes. Hopefully we will be in the position that I can stay home and then everything will change. For now though we have a system that works.

Mr Jingles
07-23-2009, 19:37
Times are different than they were after WWII. The American economy was the only major economy untouched by war. We saw a huge economic boom which lasted for almost 3 decades; and people got used to prosperity and single family incomes. People moved off the farms and moved into cities and worked. When we were a primarily an agrarian society (mom and pop farms) families worked together to make it successful; and there were also a lot of family run stores. The majority of people work for someone and have no real say so about how their life is affected by someone 500 miles away. They really don't care if your family is happy and prosperous. Goods and services almost always go up faster than salaries and people feel the pinch.

Although owning your own business usually does mean long hours and little free time - it also means being free from the vampires of senior management and having say so over important life decisions.

Working for corporations used to be a fairly safe thing for a long time; but that started ending about 30 yrs ago: layoffs, down sizing, demotions, while senior management and stockholders see huge increases.

Life ain't fair so people need to get smarter about making money and their future. Working for the XYZ Company may not be in the best interest - the XYZ company has their own interests at heart (not yours.) That is a decision everyone has to make about their lives and futures. We can all get busy with life to not really consider our future. Husbands and wives are often times not on the same page. The husband may want one thing and the wife something else; and futility can result with everyone being unhappy. When the concept of the family run farm existed (and still does for some) people pulled together in the same direction - sometimes couples pull in opposite directions and power struggles emerge. I had a friend (he died several years ago) who was a bomber pilot in WWII. He told me that after the war that he worked for about 1 year and was able to save enough money to buy a section of farm land (because land was so cheap.) He ended up owning 3 sections of farm land and became very prosperous (millionaire.) I don't think that anyone can buy a section of land with only 1 years worth of savings anymore - those days are gone. His daughter inherited the farm land and her husband runs the operation. They pull together to make it successful; and they appear pretty happy in life. They like their lifestyle; but they work together in the same direction.
Whether you work together or not there is one thing that is very clear - you need to be pulling in the same direction (not opposite directions.) You need to be working for the best interest of the marriage and future.
Many people don't be able to do it. You are supposed to be on the same side and love each other.
I had a neighbor who's son was a doctor and was making great money. The son learned a few things from his Dad and Mom about life. Instead of spending money faster than they could make it (on stuff), they began buying farm land and ranch land over the years. They now own a couple of thousand acres farm land/ranch land. When they want to get out of town for a week they often times go to their ranch/farm and enjoy being out in the country. Their farm / ranch has nothing to do with being a medical doctor; but they own the operation and have control of the business. He has a private practice; and now owns a large farming and ranching operations. His wife could just as easily (and him too) be spending the money faster than it was made and be demanding more; and often times that does happen.

There are still single family incomes; but it is harder(than before) for wives/moms to stay home with the kids.
Personal debt also has a terrible way of limiting/hurting life choices and lifestyles. There are probably some wives who could stay at home; but they have accumulated so much debt within their marriage that it is unrealistic. Demanding stuff can cause problems in other areas.