What's the F'ing point of the C.A.B.? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Surt
07-27-2009, 06:43
I get back from my COP/FOB hopping back to my "base" FOB where I stage from and see our news letter. The whole S2/BISE shop are getting awarded CABs because a rocket landed "close" to their building, and there was supposedly a few shrapnel pockmarks in the adobe.

WTF? When did we adopt a definition of "combat" that lets the 9-5 dayhos who never even see OVER the wire get awards for being "in combat"? I head in there for an INTELSUM briefing and they're all chattering away about the 70mm that hit a football field away like they weathered an artillery barrage in a hasty position! I realize that the FOBBITs that get killed by mortars are just as dead as the SF and SEAL dudes that jump on a grenade to save their buddies, but seriously. I thought the CAB was to distinguish non 11/18s that have been IN COMBAT, not just to be another version of the deployment patch.

MrMurphy
07-27-2009, 06:51
Want something to cheer you up?

I know of a female USAF LT (from one of my NCOs, who was actually IN the fight) who was not even present and got awarded either a Bronze or Silver Star because an AF general was in a hurry to award stuff before the Army could to his own troops.

A real scumbag, she didn't turn it down, since she was safe inside the wire 20 miles away and never heard a shot fired that day.

Surt
07-27-2009, 06:56
That did kinda cheer me up, if only due to the fact that I had to either laugh or cry, so I laughed.

Thanks though.

The Maggy
07-27-2009, 10:42
The point of the CAB? There is no point to it, it's a joke. It's like Jessica Lynch calling her book "I'm a Soldier too."

When I was up in the Northern part of the country I remember hearing about a rocket that hit FOB Spiecher, no where near a building or a person or anything, but some support medical company was awarded their CMB's because it was during sick call hours at their TMC.

The CAB is just something to make the pogs feel good about themselves when they go home. I mean who wouldnt want a badge that has a bayonet and a grenade on it.... It just sets you up for too many bad ass stories about how you got it.

AF-Odin
07-27-2009, 18:16
To paraphrase COL (R) Harry Summers in an article he wrote more than 20 years ago called "A Bit of Colored Ribbon," no one knows exactly what someone did to receive a medal (or other award) except that person. His point, looking back to Viet Nam, was that many of us know folks that received a Silver Star that should have either been court martialed or were no where near the event that was described in the citation yet we also know those who probably deserved a Silver Star and were lucky to receive an ARCOM. For those non-11/18 MOS Soldiers who earned their CAB in multiple fire fights, raids, and ambushes they can be justifiably proud. For those who earned it because they heard a mortar round explode..............

Rakkasan
07-28-2009, 13:12
It's just a "I want a CIB too" award for crybabies who didn't join the Infantry. That is all. Should have been a pacifier with a wreath around it. :whistling:

GreenBeret1631
07-29-2009, 13:49
It's just a "I want a CIB too" award for crybabies who didn't join the Infantry. That is all. Should have been a pacifier with a wreath around it. :whistling:

There are many people who have been awarded the CIB that shouldn't have been awarded it as well. We all have seen this!

As a Korean war veteran it sort of pains me to see the AA tab over the Rakkasan patch too!

As I recall MPs have been in many fire fights in Iraq and IMO deserve the C.A.B! I'm sure that there are many more cases of non 11B's earning their C.A.B. the hard way too.

luv2brode
07-29-2009, 14:28
It's just a "I want a CIB too" award for crybabies who didn't join the Infantry. That is all. Should have been a pacifier with a wreath around it. :whistling:

amen and pass the ammo

rdero
07-29-2009, 14:58
At 10th Mountain we called it the "Crying And *****ing" badge. We awarded the FO's attached to our platoon with CIB's the wear them under their pocket flaps. They sure deserved it.

Rakkasan
07-30-2009, 13:27
There are many people who have been awarded the CIB that shouldn't have been awarded it as well. We all have seen this!

As a Korean war veteran it sort of pains me to see the AA tab over the Rakkasan patch too!

As I recall MPs have been in many fire fights in Iraq and IMO deserve the C.A.B! I'm sure that there are many more cases of non 11B's earning their C.A.B. the hard way too.

The CAB fiasco all started back at the beginning of the Iraq war. I remember hearing all the time of people *****ing that the Infantry had a special badge and they didn't. Being in combat is not all about badges, and if they wanted a CIB or CMB, they should have done their research before they joined and became an Infantryman or Medic. The CAB is a product of whining, and that is why I do not like it.

BTW... The 187th Infantry patch has an Airborne tab. You can buy novelty ones with the AA tab or a Rakkasan tab. Plus the Rakkasans have not worn that patch since Korea.

Reheater
08-02-2009, 22:25
Heres the problem, there are scenarios which warrant the idea behind the C.A.B. and there are scenarios that dont. So the only way to stop people from passing out a badge like its halloween candy to a lot of people that dont deserve it is to get rid of the badge all together and not award the people that do.

But thats not the Army way. We have a badge and a ribbon for everything. Hell I got 3 ribbons just for signing my name. But there are people that legitimately deserve the CAB. Ive got a buddy who is a former 88M. Did he go kicking doors down in Mosul or anything like that? No... He spent a year standing in a turret of a gun truck pulling escort duty for the one thing insurgents liked to pick fights with convoys full of soft skin fuel trucks miles from the protection of the Infantry/Armor. To quote him "My hands spent more time on a .50 call then they did my own...." well you get the point.

I love how Infantry guys get there panties in a wad any time anybody else gets some kind of award or special designation that makes them cool too. I never have an Armor guy get up my ass about flight pay or anything, its always 11 series guys.

The Maggy
08-03-2009, 00:38
Heres the problem, there are scenarios which warrant the idea behind the C.A.B. and there are scenarios that dont. So the only way to stop people from passing out a badge like its halloween candy to a lot of people that dont deserve it is to get rid of the badge all together and not award the people that do.

But thats not the Army way. We have a badge and a ribbon for everything. Hell I got 3 ribbons just for signing my name. But there are people that legitimately deserve the CAB. Ive got a buddy who is a former 88M. Did he go kicking doors down in Mosul or anything like that? No... He spent a year standing in a turret of a gun truck pulling escort duty for the one thing insurgents liked to pick fights with convoys full of soft skin fuel trucks miles from the protection of the Infantry/Armor. To quote him "My hands spent more time on a .50 call then they did my own...." well you get the point.

I love how Infantry guys get there panties in a wad any time anybody else gets some kind of award or special designation that makes them cool too. I never have an Armor guy get up my ass about flight pay or anything, its always 11 series guys.

now now now, while your 88m buddy might have spent more time with his hands on a .50 then his own junk doesnt mean he knew how to use it, what he was shooting at, or that he cared. I have been shot at by skittish pogs that would empty a clip on tampa if you said "boo" across the radio. I am sure I'm not the only one with stories about getting shot at by clips running at night because you have someone in a turret has no clue what they are doing, or no idea what american trucks and weapons look like under night vision.

In the end it doesn't really matter, Once you stand through a CIB/CMB ceremony. The presentation of the CAB is like a foot note. Maybe two sentences about the warriors ethos or what ever crap is spoon fed to the soft MOS's in basic.

Reheater
08-03-2009, 12:16
Right because every 11 series PFC with a crew serve weapon on his first rotation in the sand box is just perfectly flawless at target ID and weapon employment. And Ive seen your Night Vision... its disturbing to see the difference between the quality of your gear and what we give our Crew chiefs in the back who dont even fly the thing.

deadday
08-03-2009, 14:09
I get back from my COP/FOB hopping back to my "base" FOB where I stage from and see our news letter. The whole S2/BISE shop are getting awarded CABs because a rocket landed "close" to their building, and there was supposedly a few shrapnel pockmarks in the adobe.

WTF? When did we adopt a definition of "combat" that lets the 9-5 dayhos who never even see OVER the wire get awards for being "in combat"? I head in there for an INTELSUM briefing and they're all chattering away about the 70mm that hit a football field away like they weathered an artillery barrage in a hasty position! I realize that the FOBBITs that get killed by mortars are just as dead as the SF and SEAL dudes that jump on a grenade to save their buddies, but seriously. I thought the CAB was to distinguish non 11/18s that have been IN COMBAT, not just to be another version of the deployment patch.

It makes people feel good....see the rest of the Army got upset because the infantry guys had their CIB.....so the medics said, hey, **** you guys, we need a piece of bling too....so along came the CMB....then everyone else said, hey, whiskey tango foxtrot, over? how come the medics and the infantry get new bling? We need some too....And that my friend is how the CAB came about....I don't wear mine...:wavey:

deadday
08-03-2009, 14:13
now now now, while your 88m buddy might have spent more time with his hands on a .50 then his own junk doesnt mean he knew how to use it, what he was shooting at, or that he cared. I have been shot at by skittish pogs that would empty a clip on tampa if you said "boo" across the radio. I am sure I'm not the only one with stories about getting shot at by clips running at night because you have someone in a turret has no clue what they are doing, or no idea what american trucks and weapons look like under night vision.

In the end it doesn't really matter, Once you stand through a CIB/CMB ceremony. The presentation of the CAB is like a foot note. Maybe two sentences about the warriors ethos or what ever crap is spoon fed to the soft MOS's in basic.

...you mean the ones that didn't realize that big bright, blinky lights that could only been seen through the NODs indicated people they shouldn't be shooting at?:rofl:

G-C
08-04-2009, 00:20
It's just a "I want a CIB too" award for crybabies who didn't join the Infantry. That is all. Should have been a pacifier with a wreath around it. :whistling:

You can have the f'ing badge, the f'ing headaches, and the f'ing hearing loss. "I don't need no stinking badge." What movie is that from? I forget.
This is my first post, btw. Have a nice day.

The Maggy
08-04-2009, 00:31
...you mean the ones that didn't realize that big bright, blinky lights that could only been seen through the NODs indicated people they shouldn't be shooting at?:rofl:

Thats what we thought...they got cabs for reacting to an ambush....

Surt
08-04-2009, 03:40
Ugh, they got their moment of "glory." As glorious as sitting in the S2 shop and wondering what was that "whump" can be.
What a bunch of hooey.

deadday
08-04-2009, 07:29
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/deadday/howaboutleavingthebasefobbits.jpg

Cobra6
08-11-2009, 13:03
I don't wear a Combat Action Badge because of all the reasons above - it has become a joke.

deadday
08-11-2009, 15:48
I don't wear a Combat Action Badge because of all the reasons above - it has become a joke.

:thumbsup:

GJ1981
08-12-2009, 10:13
I thought the CAB was a total joke at first but I knew a few 31B's that more than earned theirs.

I think the true joke comes when they start handing them out for next to nothing. I remember a S2 or S3 shop on Kalsu that was claimed to get CAB's for a Katyusha hitting within 100m of their building...that is where the joke is IMO.

On the other hand I knew a few 11B's that shouldn't have gotten a CIB too, so IMO a combat badge doesn't instantly mean what it is meant to.

Surt
08-12-2009, 11:52
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/deadday/howaboutleavingthebasefobbits.jpg

God, that brings back flashbacks to being of BAF seeing people walking around with DQ cups and BurgerKing bags. That, and getting our target briefing in the BISE before air assaulting onto an objective, and one of the TOC monkeys sticks their head in with a: "Hey guys, we're making a Green Beans run, you want anything?"

:rofl:

Surt
08-12-2009, 11:53
Oh, and people griping about the DFAC running out of mint chip ice cream.

Bren
08-17-2009, 10:48
It's just a "I want a CIB too" award for crybabies who didn't join the Infantry. That is all. Should have been a pacifier with a wreath around it. :whistling:

Exactly, a guy who spent a few weeks at Ft. Benning and gets shot at by a sniper while riding in his up-armored deserves a CIB, but the 13F in the seat beside him deserves nothing - just like the 11B who would have gotten his CIB if he had been standing on the FOB beside those intel guys who got rocketed. Yes, my MOS is 11B. I guess even the infantry gets it's share of whiners, huh?

Javelin
08-17-2009, 11:00
I get back from my COP/FOB hopping back to my "base" FOB where I stage from and see our news letter. The whole S2/BISE shop are getting awarded CABs because a rocket landed "close" to their building, and there was supposedly a few shrapnel pockmarks in the adobe.

WTF? When did we adopt a definition of "combat" that lets the 9-5 dayhos who never even see OVER the wire get awards for being "in combat"? I head in there for an INTELSUM briefing and they're all chattering away about the 70mm that hit a football field away like they weathered an artillery barrage in a hasty position! I realize that the FOBBITs that get killed by mortars are just as dead as the SF and SEAL dudes that jump on a grenade to save their buddies, but seriously. I thought the CAB was to distinguish non 11/18s that have been IN COMBAT, not just to be another version of the deployment patch.

I have never understood the CAB other than it was intended as a morale booster.

I personally have been awarded a CIB from 2003 but even then I wonder how the guys in Vietnam feel about that? Our Company took out a dozen or so BG in direct contact while I think our same Company in 1969 were taking out dozens a week. It's all in perspective and really the CAB is what it is.

:wavey:

Javelin
08-17-2009, 11:08
Exactly, a guy who spent a few weeks at Ft. Benning and gets shot at by a sniper while riding in his up-armored deserves a CIB, but the 13F in the seat beside him deserves nothing - just like the 11B who would have gotten his CIB if he had been standing on the FOB beside those intel guys who got rocketed. Yes, my MOS is 11B. I guess even the infantry gets it's share of whiners, huh?


Specific eligibility requirements
(1) A soldier must be an Army infantry or special forces Officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of colonel or below, or an Army enlisted soldier or warrant officer with an infantry or special forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for special forces personnel (less the special forces medical sergeant) accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards for special forces personnel are not authorized.

(2) A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or special forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade. For example, personnel possessing an infantry MOS in a rifle squad of a cavalry platoon in a cavalry troop would be eligible for award of the CIB. Battle or campaign participation credit alone is not sufficient; the unit must have been in active ground combat with the enemy during the period.

(3) Personnel with other than an infantry or special forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The infantry or special forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the soldier's primary specialty, as long as the soldier has been properly trained in infantry or special forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Commanders are not authorized to make any exceptions to this policy.

(4) Awards will not be made to general officers nor to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade.


Last awarded Continuing
Distinct
recipients 3,534 in Grenada [1]
8,031 in Panama [2]
21,877 in Gulf War [3]
1,280 in Somalia [4]
16,280 in OEF (as of 21 July '09)[5]
38,303 in OIF (as of 21 July '09)[6]

Rakkasan
08-17-2009, 13:59
Exactly, a guy who spent a few weeks at Ft. Benning and gets shot at by a sniper while riding in his up-armored deserves a CIB, but the 13F in the seat beside him deserves nothing - just like the 11B who would have gotten his CIB if he had been standing on the FOB beside those intel guys who got rocketed. Yes, my MOS is 11B. I guess even the infantry gets it's share of whiners, huh?

The Infantry sure does have it's share of whiners, and people who don't deserve a CIB.

acorn42047
08-17-2009, 14:42
I would ask why you have to downgrade other peoples accomplishments (or lack there of) to make your accomplishments bigger. Take pride in yourself and what you have done and stop thinking about what other people have. Everybody in the military knows people that have awards that were not earned. Don't let that bring you down.

In other words suck it up and drive on.

Bren
08-18-2009, 01:08
The Infantry sure does have it's share of whiners, and people who don't deserve a CIB.

Not sure what that means...that you think you're not a whiner, even though you think you deserve a special badge for getting shot at but other soldiers who do the same thing don't, just because their OSUT/AIT was a little longer than yours? Or maybe that I don't deserve a CIB because I disagree with you about it.??????????

Rakkasan
08-18-2009, 13:19
Not sure what that means...that you think you're not a whiner, even though you think you deserve a special badge for getting shot at but other soldiers who do the same thing don't, just because their OSUT/AIT was a little longer than yours? Or maybe that I don't deserve a CIB because I disagree with you about it.??????????

The question "What's the F'ing point of the C.A.B.?" was posted. I gave my opinion, like it or not. :tongueout:

WTM45
03-21-2011, 10:04
IMO, all 11X/18X series should have to earn the EIB award before deployment. It's good training.
CIB should be the next award, as everyone knows what it involves.

All other MOS should be required to earn a "EAB" award before their deployment.
The CAB would be the next award, and there would be no questions as to what it entailed.

Reheater
03-21-2011, 10:19
IMO, all 11X/18X series should have to earn the EIB award before deployment. It's good training.
CIB should be the next award, as everyone knows what it involves.

All other MOS should be required to earn a "EAB" award before their deployment.
The CAB would be the next award, and there would be no questions as to what it entailed.

How about you go F yourself if you think I need to learn how to be in the Infantry before I take a 30 million dollar Helicopter into a fight. Do Tankers need to go through some sort of special school so they can earn a CAB? How about Arty guys?

WTM45
03-21-2011, 17:25
How about you go F yourself if you think I need to learn how to be in the Infantry before I take a 30 million dollar Helicopter into a fight. Do Tankers need to go through some sort of special school so they can earn a CAB? How about Arty guys?

I'm not at all questioning your ability as a rotor wing pilot, or any other MOS holders ability to do their jobs well. What I am suggesting is a straightforward training program that is completed before deployment to theatre regardless of MOS.
Simply put, the type of training that will give real time hands on experience in dealing with the situations encountered during a CAB qualifying engagement.
Something that is more than just a refresher of basic training, but a thorough station-to-station task completion.

You have to admit, that if for some reason you have to auto-rotate or ditch you will be on the ground possibly fighting for your survival. I don't know if you are flying attack or support, but finding yourself trying to defend yourself and the lives of surviving crewmembers is a very real possibility. Infantry skills pay off exponentially.

Infantry divisions see the firsthand value of EIB training pre deployment. Been that way since the WWII European Theatre deployment of the 100th ID.
I simply think the EIB should be part of a pre-deployment requirement for all infantry MOS. And, to add, that should include all 19 series and 13 series soldiers as well, IMO. They deserve the CIB also, IMO.

I'm suggesting a similiar pre-deployment training for all other MOS soldiers can do nothing but help prepare them for when/if they need to call upon that training. I have not advocated NON AWARD simply because there has been no previous level of training or qualification. I simply wish to see more lives saved through quality preparation.

Thank you for your service to our nation, Reheater. Stay safe.

Jeff82
03-21-2011, 17:40
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/deadday/howaboutleavingthebasefobbits.jpg

Nice!

Jeff82
03-21-2011, 17:46
One mortar round lands on Anaconda: 20,000 CABs are put in for.

Reheater
03-21-2011, 17:57
You have to admit, that if for some reason you have to auto-rotate or ditch you will be on the ground possibly fighting for your survival. I don't know if you are flying attack or support, but finding yourself trying to defend yourself and the lives of surviving crewmembers is a very real possibility. Infantry skills pay off exponentially.



I had that, its called SERE.

By that same bit of thinking would it be so much to ask that we put anybody thats going into country through the full C course. Im not talking about the glossed over powerpoint BS they give everybody on the basics of what a blood **** is and such I mean the full experience that all us Aviator have to go through. After all the actual likely hood of having to operate in that way is infinitesimal for the dude that lives on Victory or something like that, but hey its a possibility just like me suddenly finding myself fighting on the ground... with a rifle. Infantry skills... there are two of us dude. And in all likely hood the rifle in the front seat will be inop after any kind of crash/force landing scenario. We arent gonna set up an ambush or flank a machine gun in defalade. We're going to run from a fight given the option every single time. These last stand at the Alamo Black Hawk down fantasies that people have... thats what happens when **** goes wrong and you dont have a choice.

Yes I know Infantry guys get all spun up doing their training prior to the deployment. You know what my unit is doing in July? Supporting the 173rd do exactly that. We dont sit around on our hands guy. But when your talking about time and dollars to train people to do _____ it gets to the point where you have to say isnt there something better we could be doing with this time. And Ive got far better things too do than take my million dollars of Army money invested ass out into the woods and play grunt. And there are plenty of other non combat MOS's which would get far more out of training to do their job not to play Infantry Joe.

Reason I jump on ideas like this and proceed to stomp on them so much is somebody might hear you and think that my Crew Chiefs would be better served by spending days on end in the woods learning how to land nav than learning how to do repairs on the aircraft from non developed locations (IE no hanger and such just wrenches and muscle).

WTM45
03-21-2011, 18:07
I had that, its called SERE.

By that same bit of thinking would it be so much to ask that we put anybody thats going into country through the full C course. Im not talking about the glossed over powerpoint BS they give everybody on the basics of what a blood **** is and such I mean the full experience that all us Aviator have to go through. After all the actual likely hood of having to operate in that way is infinitesimal for the dude that lives on Victory or something like that, but hey its a possibility just like me suddenly finding myself fighting on the ground... with a rifle. Infantry skills... there are two of us dude. And in all likely hood the rifle in the front seat will be inop after any kind of crash/force landing scenario. We arent gonna set up an ambush or flank a machine gun in defalade. We're going to run from a fight given the option every single time. These last stand at the Alamo Black Hawk down fantasies that people have... thats what happens when **** goes wrong and you dont have a choice.

Yes I know Infantry guys get all spun up doing their training prior to the deployment. You know what my unit is doing in July? Supporting the 173rd do exactly that. We dont sit around on our hands guy. But when your talking about time and dollars to train people to do _____ it gets to the point where you have to say isnt there something better we could be doing with this time. And Ive got far better things too do than take my million dollars of Army money invested ass out into the woods and play grunt. And there are plenty of other non combat MOS's which would get far more out of training to do their job not to play Infantry Joe.

Well, it's been the subject of discussion in more than one course at Carlisle Barracks, that's for sure.
I know where you are coming from. You should know I was part of the same machine twenty six years ago. Not much has changed. All I'm doing is sharing an educated opinion from experience.

If five days of appropriate training helps save the lives of your crew in a CAB qualifying incident, IMO it is more than worth it. They will be around to keep you flying after the reports are completed and the awards ceremony has been conducted.

nothing
03-21-2011, 22:01
It's not worth worrying about. There are plenty of folks in all branches and MOS's that get awards without merit, whether it's an AFAM, ARCOM, BSM, CIB, CAB or CAR. Some people earn their stuff and others just have it handed to them. It's not just this war, look at John Kerry and his purple hearts. Hell, he blew his own ass off. Some earn their awards (including CABS) and some don't. I wouldn't take the CABS from our forward observers or the one parachute rigger that somehow ended up in my platoon. They didn't everything we did.

Ultimately I don't worry about it. I know I earned mine and that's all I care about. I know there are folks that went through a lot worse and I'm sure there are those who didn't do anything and they are all welcome to their opinions. I don't know, maybe when I finally retire and don't have to worry about going to some crappy country in the ass crack of the world just to have 8 year old kids through onions at me and slip in a IED every now and then I'll spend more time contemplating all the guys that have more **** on their DD214 than me.

HerrGlock
03-25-2011, 11:10
For the same reason that they now give the overseas ribbon to someone who also got a campaign medal for the same tour. The REMF officers were looking kinda pathetic when they went up against their front line peers for a promotion.

HerrGlock
03-25-2011, 11:12
You have to admit, that if for some reason you have to auto-rotate or ditch you will be on the ground possibly fighting for your survival. I don't know if you are flying attack or support, but finding yourself trying to defend yourself and the lives of surviving crewmembers is a very real possibility. Infantry skills pay off exponentially.

SERE. Level C.

I say that as an ex-grunt who went pilot. SERE actually gives you more of a clue than infantry basic.

WTM45
03-25-2011, 12:13
SERE. Level C.

I say that as an ex-grunt who went pilot. SERE actually gives you more of a clue than infantry basic.

I understand that very well. SERE IS appropriate training which fits the job description and needs of flight personnel.

I was referring moreso to those who have no survival/combat training at all outside of their Basic. Especially support and service roles.
Might save lives, and better prepare the unprepared.

JBarbaresi
03-25-2011, 22:36
this thread took an interesting turn. it started out as a ***** session about an award that has no affect on your own individual accomplishments, and it turned into a "my dick is bigger than yours" bragging competition.

why does anyone care if there's a point behind the CAB or the CIB or how people earn them? does it really change anything? i mean really, anything?

and last time i checked the infantry couldn't do its job without the support of all the soft skills and POGs out there, and vice versa. instead of hating because of a stupid badge that they or you may or may not have earned, be glad they are there to fix your vehicles, deliver your fuel, collect intelligence, make your coffee, or contribute in whatever way they are willing or able. the military doesn't function with out some level of sacrifice from everyone involved.

John43
03-25-2011, 22:54
I was Navy at Danang airbase TET of 68 and they pounded us with 120mm's. Talked to one of the guys forty years later and they gave it to him, he was career. Does being hit three nights in a row qualify? We had planes shot down on takeoff, looked like a car junk yard at the end of the runway.

MstrPara
03-28-2011, 07:37
I don't wear a Combat Action Badge because of all the reasons above - it has become a joke.

Pretty much this.

I've known 11 series who've "earned" a CIB, and never rotated their selector switch off of safe.

Plenty of CAB wearers who've never stepped off the FOB, and probably been in more danger at home from a po'd wife or husband than while deployed.

Agree with whoever said the EIB should be a PRE-requisite to the CIB.

Right now, the overawarding of CIBs/CABs (along with BSMs, Air Medals, etc) dilutes the true meaning of "earning" the award.

Spike 7.62
07-21-2011, 14:17
The Combat Action Badge has an important place on our uniform; it recognizes soldiers for serving in combat. It's a matter of pride and shows the soldier's service.

What I think is stupid is the right shoulder patch. Who cares what unit you were in the combat "zone" with, it has zero bearing on anything. It's a fashion statement more than anything, a PFC with a right shoulder patch can look down upon a 1SG with none. People who are assigned to units like 101st, 1st ID, any Cav unit, 10th Mountain, et cetera, wear those patches although they never actually served in that unit. Some soldiers use any kind of excuse to wear any kind of patch they want.

Javelin
07-21-2011, 18:01
One mortar round lands on Anaconda: 20,000 CABs are put in for.

:rofl:

Back on my second tour in Iraq (2005) I was doing some RIP equipment transfers one evening with a unit from 3rd Infantry Division on LSA Anaconda and a rocket lands about 30m from where I was standing, explodes with a blazing 100 foot tail into the air.

A 3rd Infantry Major and 3 Staff Sergeants run out and immediately start filling out paperwork with written testimony for CAB submission.

I almost laughed so hard I think I insulted them all. :dunno:

Spike 7.62
07-21-2011, 19:11
Yes unfortunately stuff like that does happen. The first IDF our FOB took while I was there was in the area of the hospital, and anyone who was in the area was awarded a CAB, whether inside or outside or what.

And interestingly, there was a unit who had a soldier toss a grenade out the humvee, essentially because he was mentally unstable. The incident was thought to be an IED, CIB paperwork was filed and it was put in the sigacs as an IED contact. When the true story came out, everyone had their CIBs revoked. ****ty part is, they were later in real combat deserving of the award. But the award is written for a single event, so they lost their badges even though they were in combat.

Javelin
07-21-2011, 19:17
Yes unfortunately stuff like that does happen. The first IDF our FOB took while I was there was in the area of the hospital, and anyone who was in the area was awarded a CAB, whether inside or outside or what.

And interestingly, there was a unit who had a soldier toss a grenade out the humvee, essentially because he was mentally unstable. The incident was thought to be an IED, CIB paperwork was filed and it was put in the sigacs as an IED contact. When the true story came out, everyone had their CIBs revoked. ****ty part is, they were later in real combat deserving of the award. But the award is written for a single event, so they lost their badges even though they were in combat.

I could see how this could happen... but the CIB requires you to essentially react to contact (returning fire while under fire). That's how my unit handled the CIB awards back in Iraq in 2003. I honestly do not know many that were in the line units that did not get one. Mine was just submitted with a long list of folks that were completing combat missions nightly so nothing really to specifically write up.

:dunno:

Nanuk
08-04-2011, 11:27
I was an MP for three years, got shot at, stabbed on several occasions and I earned an Army Service Ribbon, oh yea, so does everyone.

The CAB issue is kinda like CBP Air and Marine where the lowest rank guy in the outfit wears LTC bars. I asked them, "Kinda isn't worth anything then is it?" The did NOT want to hear that.

Spike 7.62
08-12-2011, 16:27
Ya know what ruffles my feathers? I didn't want to start another thread, I feel it's along the same lines... big medals as end of tour awards. My battery suffered 4 KIA in Iraq and they were posthumously awarded the Bronze Star with V device, as were the WIAs. Also, E7's and above received the BSM (minus V device) just as an end of tour award, whether they had stellar service or not. E6 got MSM (meritorious service medal) and E5 and below got the ARCOM if you did well on the deployment, and AAM if you did okay, and some guys actually did not get end of tour awards. Personally, I feel like an Army Commendation medal should be the highest a soldier receives for just showing up to the deployment, it's not like you have a choice anyway.

/rant.

Javelin
08-12-2011, 19:42
EDIT; I guess it really does not matter. The person who is wearing it will know if he earned his CIB or not. And if he did he will be proud.. if not ... well then he will have to live with it and I would not want to bear that guilt personally.

I wear mine proud but I wear it not for myself but because of all of the infantrymen before me that never had the chance to put it on while protecting our precious soil.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=288&pictureid=4651

Spike 7.62
08-12-2011, 19:53
Lots of Infantry men elect to wear the EIB rather than CIB anyway. My best friend is an 11B E5 and mostly wears his EIB. I'm an Artillery man myself.

CombatCamera
08-18-2011, 06:07
I was at Bagram and IDF hit like soooooo close I could hear it, it went boom!!! wonder if I qualify for it! :rofl: Hah im Air Force and can't wear it anyways.

I do know an Army admin person that has, I will ask her what she got it for.

MLCHPLL
08-27-2011, 23:02
what do cabs and yeast infections have in common?

Bren
08-28-2011, 05:37
I was at Bagram and IDF hit like soooooo close I could hear it, it went boom!!! wonder if I qualify for it! :rofl: Hah im Air Force and can't wear it anyways.

I do know an Army admin person that has, I will ask her what she got it for.

Wait a second, Glocktalker - Air Force - Bagram: I saw an Air Force guy in the DFac when I was going on R&R - not joking - had on a shoulder holster with a double edged knife hanging below his magazines on the right, a knife strapped to his leg like a scuba diver and a machete across his back. Was that you? May have had some more knives on too, it's been a while.:rofl:

what do cabs and yeast infections have in common?

Hmmm...you qualify for both but probably won't get either?

Lots of Infantry men elect to wear the EIB rather than CIB anyway. My best friend is an 11B E5 and mostly wears his EIB. I'm an Artillery man myself.

Never heard that one before...ever. Also never seen an artilleryman make it 2 words. Are you BSing?

Spike 7.62
08-28-2011, 09:17
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My buddy wears his EIB more than his CIB and a few guys in his clique do too, as does a former infantryman in my current unit. I'm sure tons of guys elect to wear their CIB instead if their EIB, I've certainly seen a gazillion of them, I'm just saying not all do.

<a href="http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Spike762/?action=view&amp;current=artillerydiploma.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Spike762/artillerydiploma.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

There I am receiving my Artillery school diploma, if it helps :2gun:

the iceman
09-05-2011, 19:27
Heres the problem, there are scenarios which warrant the idea behind the C.A.B. and there are scenarios that dont. So the only way to stop people from passing out a badge like its halloween candy to a lot of people that dont deserve it is to get rid of the badge all together and not award the people that do.

But thats not the Army way. We have a badge and a ribbon for everything. Hell I got 3 ribbons just for signing my name. But there are people that legitimately deserve the CAB. Ive got a buddy who is a former 88M. Did he go kicking doors down in Mosul or anything like that? No... He spent a year standing in a turret of a gun truck pulling escort duty for the one thing insurgents liked to pick fights with convoys full of soft skin fuel trucks miles from the protection of the Infantry/Armor. To quote him "My hands spent more time on a .50 call then they did my own...." well you get the point.

I love how Infantry guys get there panties in a wad any time anybody else gets some kind of award or special designation that makes them cool too. I never have an Armor guy get up my ass about flight pay or anything, its always 11 series guys.

How about you go F yourself if you think I need to learn how to be in the Infantry before I take a 30 million dollar Helicopter into a fight. Do Tankers need to go through some sort of special school so they can earn a CAB? How about Arty guys?

I had that, its called SERE.

By that same bit of thinking would it be so much to ask that we put anybody thats going into country through the full C course. Im not talking about the glossed over powerpoint BS they give everybody on the basics of what a blood **** is and such I mean the full experience that all us Aviator have to go through. After all the actual likely hood of having to operate in that way is infinitesimal for the dude that lives on Victory or something like that, but hey its a possibility just like me suddenly finding myself fighting on the ground... with a rifle. Infantry skills... there are two of us dude. And in all likely hood the rifle in the front seat will be inop after any kind of crash/force landing scenario. We arent gonna set up an ambush or flank a machine gun in defalade. We're going to run from a fight given the option every single time. These last stand at the Alamo Black Hawk down fantasies that people have... thats what happens when **** goes wrong and you dont have a choice.

Yes I know Infantry guys get all spun up doing their training prior to the deployment. You know what my unit is doing in July? Supporting the 173rd do exactly that. We dont sit around on our hands guy. But when your talking about time and dollars to train people to do _____ it gets to the point where you have to say isnt there something better we could be doing with this time. And Ive got far better things too do than take my million dollars of Army money invested ass out into the woods and play grunt. And there are plenty of other non combat MOS's which would get far more out of training to do their job not to play Infantry Joe.

Reason I jump on ideas like this and proceed to stomp on them so much is somebody might hear you and think that my Crew Chiefs would be better served by spending days on end in the woods learning how to land nav than learning how to do repairs on the aircraft from non developed locations (IE no hanger and such just wrenches and muscle).

I know this thread is a couple years old and and this topic might not even matter anymore but judging from your comments...you sound just like the type of soldier that this badge was designed for.

Reheater
09-05-2011, 19:33
Was that supposed to be a jab or a compliment? Seriously it could go either way.

If you mean a first line combatant who isnt in the infantry branch then I'd say yes I'm exactly that soldier and that's what this batch was designed for.

CombatCamera
09-07-2011, 02:52
[QUOTE=Bren;17838519]Wait a second, Glocktalker - Air Force - Bagram: I saw an Air Force guy in the DFac when I was going on R&R - not joking - had on a shoulder holster with a double edged knife hanging below his magazines on the right, a knife strapped to his leg like a scuba diver and a machete across his back. Was that you? May have had some more knives on too, it's been a while.:rofl:

[QUOTE]


ROFL that wasn't me, I only stoped though Bagram for a night. I wish I had a sweet machete!!!!!!

igor
09-07-2011, 22:29
ok whats a dfc or dfac. i don not have a cib newver even thought about getting one. did my 18 months in vietnam flew when i had top got shot at and missed and then got shot at and hit. got cought in a 122 blaST going to the bathroom one night. you know 40 years later dont even remember what medals i got or didnt get. i guess i could look in the box they are in . i was in a place called chu lai with the americal division. im happy you are all ok. remember teh ravages of war tend to sneak up on you later. agent orange the gift thata keeps on giving. you all survived thaats the iomportant thing

Bren
09-08-2011, 06:15
ok whats a dfc or dfac.

It's the "new Army" word for a mess hall - the Wii generation doesn't know what a mess hall is. Maybe the fundamental difference is that a DFac is run by a government-contractor civilian company and it's dirty and the food's worse than any mess hall in the old days.

Bren
09-08-2011, 06:17
ROFL that wasn't me, I only stoped though Bagram for a night. I wish I had a sweet machete!!!!!!

Never figured out what he was going to cut with the machete...or where he even got it. The DFac was full of people going on R&R and all heads turned when that guy walked in.

Jeff82
09-08-2011, 13:28
DFac = Dining Facility.

the iceman
09-08-2011, 19:45
Was that supposed to be a jab or a compliment? Seriously it could go either way.

If you mean a first line combatant who isnt in the infantry branch then I'd say yes I'm exactly that soldier and that's what this batch was designed for.

Yes it was a jab. I just forgot my :whistling:

<-------former grunt. EIB and CIB. I was damn proud of my EIB and wouldn't take it off for anything. The only time I wore my CIB was in my class A's going home from the Army for good.

Now as a civilian, neither mean anything.

Reheater
09-08-2011, 23:54
Yes it was a jab. I just forgot my :whistling:

<-------former grunt. EIB and CIB. I was damn proud of my EIB and wouldn't take it off for anything. The only time I wore my CIB was in my class A's going home from the Army for good.

Now as a civilian, neither mean anything.

Personally I go the way of the Marine Corps with regards to chest candy. We have too damn much of it in the Army. Stop giving out awards for people doing their damn jobs. Get rid of the Combat patch, nobody cares if you were in _____ unit during _____ operation what are you doing on your job now.

We're just one step above the Air Force in that regard. Where people get wings and skill badge looking patches to wear on their uniform that signify nothing other than their MOS.

The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.

hagan34
09-09-2011, 23:51
The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.

x2 I do miss my name TAG and Unit chest patch too....

Reheater
09-10-2011, 04:58
x2 I do miss my name TAG and Unit chest patch too....

We've still got the unit patch. But yeah I like the two piece since its easier to take a crap without the top half of your uniform laying on the floor of the ****ter. But this had to be some ground guy's idea to make us not look like pilots when at the end of the day we are aviation and we do things different because we have too.

Bren
09-11-2011, 12:53
The only thing I get personally pissed off about with regards to myself is the whole hatred of pilots looking like pilots from some E9/O6-7 somewhere that got us this awful uniform that is the A2CU. We're told we cant look like pilots so we make a uniform that looks like everybody elses. We're told we cant look different from the ACU so we compromise its utility for the sake of looking like everybody else. We finally get the damn thing with all its awful velcro and poorly placed pocket goodness and suddenly it doesnt look enough like ACUs so we cant wear it anywhere off the flight line. Way to waste millions of dollars for the sake of making pilots not look like pilots.

If it makes you feel better, the rest of us have to wear the ACU, because it's the perfect combat uniform, but if we go to combat they have to issue us new uniforms and warn us that the ACU is not to be worn in combat, because it will melt to you if you're around a fire or blast. That's how I got issued the A2CU or whatever, air crew uniforms. I loved those zippers. We got issued 4 FRACU's and to A2CU's when we went to Afghanistan. Some guys spent to whole deployment wearing nothing but combat shirts, air crew ACUs and the ECWCS wind shirt (to cover the combat shirt, because you aren't allowed to wear it on most FOB's or in any Dfac).

Reheater
09-11-2011, 13:30
If it makes you feel better, the rest of us have to wear the ACU, because it's the perfect combat uniform, but if we go to combat they have to issue us new uniforms and warn us that the ACU is not to be worn in combat, because it will melt to you if you're around a fire or blast. That's how I got issued the A2CU or whatever, air crew uniforms. I loved those zippers. We got issued 4 FRACU's and to A2CU's when we went to Afghanistan. Some guys spent to whole deployment wearing nothing but combat shirts, air crew ACUs and the ECWCS wind shirt (to cover the combat shirt, because you aren't allowed to wear it on most FOB's or in any Dfac).

Oh I know thats why I love this huge sick joke that is our uniform procurement process. And now that multicam is in the mix it'll be so much more fun. Especially the whole part about "you cant come in the DFAC wearing _____." Makes me think of pictures like this.

http://www.reocities.com/Pentagon/camp/6016/2.jpg

They lost the war because they didnt adhere to stateside garrison non combat zone uniform standards... And how can you be trusted to operate that gun if you cant even wear your uniform and reflective belt properly...

NDGlock
09-12-2011, 19:33
I am a 12B and was in OIF2. My BN's job was Trailblazing - route clearance all the way from Camp Summerall/Arlington ( about 20 mikes N of Speicher) to just a bit North of Taji as well as routes to Anaconda via O'Ryan.

I'm sure the names have changed since then or no longer exist but that was our mission in OIF2. We covered over 120 (?) miles of Tampa looking for IED's. Back then we didn't get Buffaloes till the last 3 months of the tour. Then, we got 3 of the total 11 in Army inventory (as of Nov 2004). A majority of the tour was done in hillbilly armored 5 ton dumps with sandbags and wood against increasingly complex 155mm IEDs, rpgs and small arms.

We had 4 KIA and 25 wounded, several severely with face removal/limb removal.

I think CABs awarded then were appropriate. We took contact and by the nature of the mission, could not pursue beyond 300 meters to either side of the route. Our number 1 mission was to keep Tampa open for coalition forces.

Now, from what I read, it's gotten to be if you were near a mortar strike on your way to the PX on Anaconda.

Anyway - I think there were a good many 12B's and 31B's who earned them. Sometimes there would be 12Bs right alongside 11B's putting rounds down on an assualt (Operation Baton Rogue) and all we got were the CAB.

It is what it is.

Maybe there should be a Outside the Wire CAB and FOB CAB :)

Jeff82
09-12-2011, 21:11
Maybe there should be a Outside the Wire CAB and FOB CAB :)

That reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hqv5yBaXaI

NDGlock
09-13-2011, 08:03
That reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hqv5yBaXaI

LMAO! Good one! Thanks for sharing.