View Full Version : How many Michiganders OC regularly.. where legal of course?
Please let not this thread degrade into an OC vs CC argument since many who OC also CC. And I'm just curious how many Michigan GT'ers OC where legal on a regular basis.
Judy and I open carry. Judy occasionally... me always.
So there is 2...........
Warhorse
08-31-2009, 15:00
How would one go about finding out where it is legal to OC in our state, and where it is illegal?
freakshow10mm
08-31-2009, 15:23
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html
Pretty much private property where posted, courthouses, and that's about it. If you have a CPL you can carry in most places that are no carry zones such as colleges, hospitals, etc.
I open carry most of the time. Pretty much everywhere I go. There's a couple guys up here that OC regularly besides myself. LE up here know the laws and generally don't bother anyone.
Warhorse
09-02-2009, 06:15
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html
Pretty much private property where posted, courthouses, and that's about it. If you have a CPL you can carry in most places that are no carry zones such as colleges, hospitals, etc.
I open carry most of the time. Pretty much everywhere I go. There's a couple guys up here that OC regularly besides myself. LE up here know the laws and generally don't bother anyone.
That does not make sense!
You think if you have a CPL, that you can OC in "no carry zones"?
I know that is what the site say's, but I would not want to try it.
freakshow10mm
09-02-2009, 08:24
I do it all the time.
Warhorse
09-02-2009, 19:06
I've never seen anybody OC around here (Emmet County), including off duty cops. Unless I'm blind.
I would like to start doing this. I hate to say I feel uncomfortable doing it, but that has been what's stopped me up until now.
I am going to the Open Carry Picnic I posted about on the 20th, we will see how that goes, and maybe I will start OC from time to time.
Warhorse
09-03-2009, 17:47
Despite the legality or not of open carry, I prefer to carry concealed. I do not like to draw attention to myself. I feel that it would make me more of a target, as in "he's got a gun, shoot him first".
If I was unfortunate enough to fall victim to some sort of foul play, I want the element of surprise to be on my side. Telling everyone within eyesight that I am armed, does not make me invincible.
I am not against OC, if that is what you like, by all means make yourself happy.
Despite the legality or not of open carry, I prefer to carry concealed. I do not like to draw attention to myself. I feel that it would make me more of a target, as in "he's got a gun, shoot him first".
If I was unfortunate enough to fall victim to some sort of foul play, I want the element of surprise to be on my side. Telling everyone within eyesight that I am armed, does not make me invincible.
I am not against OC, if that is what you like, by all means make yourself happy.
Ditto.
freakshow10mm
09-04-2009, 06:29
That does not make sense!
You think if you have a CPL, that you can OC in "no carry zones"?
I know that is what the site say's, but I would not want to try it.
Not only the site, but the Atty General, the State Police, and the rep for the 38th district:
(4) Three opinions on this topic. An AG’s opinion, the Michigan State Police, and a State Senator’s.
AG opinion o. 7097 FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN January 11, 2002: This conclusion is not affected
by the provisions of section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. That statute
prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1)
Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of
the following:
a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
b) A church or other house of religious worship.
c) A court.
d) A theatre.
e) A sports arena.
f) A day care center.
g) A hospital.
h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the
possession
of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
b) A peace officer.
c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession
is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [Emphasis added.]
By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places
but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed
weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol,… is exempt from the gun-free zone
restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the
types of premises listed in that statute.
MSP opinion: Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL
pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly
carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.
Sincerely,
Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police
Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd.
East Lansing, MI 48823
(517) 336-6441
Senator Prusi’s opinion: My office received your inquiry regarding the legality of a licensed CPL holder to
open carry a firearm in "Pistol Free Zones." On Friday we received a copy of your correspondence, as Senator
Carl Levin's Office referred your letter to my office because your concerns mainly pertain to state issues. As
such, I am happy to assist you in this matter.
My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share
with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are
licensed a CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d
permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this
matter….Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"
Warhorse
09-04-2009, 18:28
Cool!
Can you imagine the looks one would get, if they were open carrying when they appeared at the county building, in front of the concealed weapons board, to renew their CPL that had not quite expired? :supergrin:
freakshow10mm
09-04-2009, 21:15
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. They never batted an eye. I load the sheriff's departments training ammunition.:supergrin: :wavey:
freakshow10mm
09-04-2009, 21:19
A lot of people ***** about MI being half assed on gun laws, but the way they are written, you can open carry an AR15 pistol in your college classroom and there ain't a ******* thing they can do about it but ask you to leave. OK. Bye-bye.
Refuse and it's criminal trespass. Duly noted and respected.
BTW yes I've done it. Game. Set. Match.
TurtleBoy617
09-07-2009, 16:09
So, with the way that Michigan law is currently written, I, a college student, with a valid CPL, could open carry my fully loaded Glock 23 into my college classroom or just walking on campus, and legally I cannot be arrested?
If that is the case, I of course realize I would be told to leave the campus and probably harassed by the police.
So, with the way that Michigan law is currently written, I, a college student, with a valid CPL, could open carry my fully loaded Glock 23 into my college classroom or just walking on campus, and legally I cannot be arrested?
If that is the case, I of course realize I would be told to leave the campus and probably harassed by the police.
Your college probably has a policy about not allowing students to carry weapons on campus, and you agreed to those terms of that agreement when you became a student there. You probably would be expelled from the college if you decided to do that.
freakshow10mm
09-08-2009, 07:53
But yes it is legal to do so according to the sources I posted.
Fireball 57
09-09-2009, 15:43
I'm just waiting for some Liberal to freak and call his or hers Liberal lawmakers thereby effectively, restricting my carry ability.:cool:
I'm just waiting for some Liberal to freak and call his or hers Liberal lawmakers thereby effectively, restricting my carry ability.:cool:
It's too late... the liberals have been freaking for the past several decades and calling their liberal lawmakers thereby slowly and incrementally restricting your, mine, and everyone else's ability to carry anyway.
The only way to stop a slowly advancing enemy is to draw a line and firmly hold that line. Continuing to retreat, even if slowly, means they win... even if only slowly.
Concealed carry permits are privileges that can be given... and taken away. Even open carry where legal can be made illegal and that can be taken away. And both can be taken away in a heartbeat with the stroke of a pen.
Now comes this character named Sunstein being voted upon for regulatory czar in the Senate as I type. A guy who thinks animals have the right to an attorney... even rats cannot be driven from a home if it hurts the rat. And hunting should be banned. And guns have no place in the U.S..
So... do we draw a line or not?
I'm old, in bad health, with slim financial resources so my personal ability to positively impact anti gun forces is... greatly limited. Except that I can open carry in a polite and lawful manner and show the average citizen by example that the anti gun crap just might be........... crap.
fulltang
09-18-2009, 15:48
I open carry around my property and while up north around Houghton Lake when hunting. I am thinking about expanding the places I OC. I know guys in Kalamazoo have done it and been harrassed by police.
I carry open whenever I'm on my motorcycle, but do cover when entering stores, etc.
glock22357
10-02-2009, 06:04
I open carry around my property and while up north around Houghton Lake when hunting. I am thinking about expanding the places I OC. I know guys in Kalamazoo have done it and been harrassed by police.
I O.C.d in the Kalamazoo Walmart......nothing happened.
Donutrcng
10-02-2009, 15:21
I O.C.d in the Kalamazoo Walmart......nothing happened.
You did get the Natcho's though.... right? :rofl:
I went to an open carry picnic a couple weeks ago, and before we went to the picnic we stopped at Meijers for supplies and I OD'd in there, and after the picnic we went to Gander Mountain to check out some stuff. Nobody really seemed to care, with the exception of a foul smelling old man who asked my mom if she was a police officer. When she said no, he told her it was illegal to carry that way.
It was almost shocking that the only person who seemed to be ignorant of the law was a man at gander mountain who was purchasing a handgun.
There are laws and there are rules. If you break either there will be consequences. The state will arrest you and the school will expel you. We are on the verge of hopefully educating the public on open carry. You look at any big movement and the people that helped start it and there will always be people that say, I don't want to do it because it draws attention to me or I prefer to do it another way because it keeps me safer or less noticeable. No matter what the cause it has been said before. What were some of those causes, Women's Right Movement, Segregation, Gay Rights and so on. 20 years from now people will be open carrying and it will not be a big deal unless socialism completely takes over but there will always be another movement trying to educate the people.
steveksux
10-24-2009, 17:23
I went to an open carry picnic a couple weeks ago, and before we went to the picnic we stopped at Meijers for supplies and I OD'd in there, Even though the CPL allows you to open carry in "no pistol zones", it does not allow you to carry a pistol while on drugs... :tongueout:
Just sayin... don't want any misconceptions to get started..
Randy
Warhorse
10-27-2009, 04:29
20 years from now people will be open carrying and it will not be a big deal unless socialism completely takes over but there will always be another movement trying to educate the people.
While I support the right to open carry if one so desires.
OC is not a big movement here in northern MI, you do not even see off duty police officers open carrying around here.
freakshow10mm
10-27-2009, 07:28
Most agency policies state off duty carry must be concealed.
Russ7777
10-29-2009, 17:39
I have never open carried, because it tends to make others around you uncomfortable, and in the words of Ted Nugent "there is no tactical advantage to open carry."
I respect those who do, but I choose not to open carry.
Russ7777
10-29-2009, 17:43
So, with the way that Michigan law is currently written, I, a college student, with a valid CPL, could open carry my fully loaded Glock 23 into my college classroom or just walking on campus, and legally I cannot be arrested?
If that is the case, I of course realize I would be told to leave the campus and probably harassed by the police.
If your college is like mine (NCMC) it states explicitedly in the handbook that drugs and guns are not allowed on campus period. If you are found with any you can, and will, be expelled. So it might be legal with the state, but most likely you would violate school policies, and pay the penatly of such action.
G36shooter
11-18-2009, 22:36
I've started to OC more often I do have a CPL but with the cooler weather I would have to use a tact. leg holster or millitary type pistol belt . Livingston,Co. MI
I hate to revive a dead thread, but I just wanted to say to anyone who may be interesting in OCing in MI, please please PLEASE make sure you know all the relevant laws. I OC regularly and have spent a lot of time getting to know what I can and cannot do legally.
www.opencarry.org has all kinds of great information, as well as people who will help you understand the law. If you have any desire to OC in MI, check out http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/ (the michigan OC forum) before you OC to make sure you don't accidentally do something illegal.
Carry on!
I hate to revive a dead thread, but I just wanted to say to anyone who may be interesting in OCing in MI, please please PLEASE make sure you know all the relevant laws. I OC regularly and have spent a lot of time getting to know what I can and cannot do legally.
www.opencarry.org has all kinds of great information, as well as people who will help you understand the law. If you have any desire to OC in MI, check out http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/ (the michigan OC forum) before you OC to make sure you don't accidentally do something illegal.
Carry on!
Those of us who carry openly or concealed MUST know ALL the laws unfortunately since the average police officer does not, cares not to or doesn't want to know these laws. You wouldn't believe some of the nonsense I've gotten from police officers on what they think they know. I even had one officer saying he didn't care what the laws were, there should be no carrying of any kind for civilians.
Those of us who carry openly or concealed MUST know ALL the laws unfortunately since the average police officer does not, cares not to or doesn't want to know these laws. You wouldn't believe some of the nonsense I've gotten from police officers on what they think they know. I even had one officer saying he didn't care what the laws were, there should be no carrying of any kind for civilians.
That's funny, considering the police department is not a military organization.
That's funny, considering the police department is not a military organization.
And your point is?
I have never open carried, because it tends to make others around you uncomfortable, and in the words of Ted Nugent "there is no tactical advantage to open carry."
I respect those who do, but I choose not to open carry.
I respect your, and anyone else's, decision to not open carry for what ever reason(s) one might have.
Yet open carry has one component that concealed carry will never have:
From thefreedictionary.com
tac·tics (tktks)
n.
1.
a. (used with a sing. verb) The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy: Tactics is a required course at all military academies.
b. (used with a pl. verb) Maneuvers used against an enemy: Guerrilla tactics were employed during most of the war.
2. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) A procedure or set of maneuvers engaged in to achieve an end, an aim, or a goal.
Open carrying with the intention of achieving the end of letting the bad guy know his intended victim has the means to resist is a "tactic" giving the open carrier an extra "tactical advantage" that concealed carry does not have since the person carrying concealed looks just like every other potential victim to the bad guy.
I won't go into how I don't much care if folks are so insecure they become "uncomfortable" at the mere sight of a legally carried gun... especially since when trouble started those same "uncomfortable" folks would be the very first to hide behind the citizen who has a gun.
And your point is?
You're either civilian or you're military.
The officer in question mentioned that civilians shouldn't have guns, which would have left said officer without a weapon.
Which, I feel, is comical.
You're either civilian or you're military.
The officer in question mentioned that civilians shouldn't have guns, which would have left said officer without a weapon.
Which, I feel, is comical.
you're incorrect. Police officers consider non law enforcement civilians as do military. I'm retired military and still consider all others 'civilians'.
freakshow10mm
12-10-2009, 06:56
You're either civilian or you're military.
This again? Use a dictionary. Really helpful so you know what you're talking about.
ci⋅vil⋅ian
/sɪˈvɪlyən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [si-vil-yuhn] Show IPA
Use civilian in a Sentence
See web results for civilian
See images of civilian
–noun
1. a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization.
2. Informal. anyone regarded by members of a profession, interest group, society, etc., as not belonging; nonprofessional; outsider: We need a producer to run the movie studio, not some civilian from the business world.
3. a person versed in or studying Roman or civil law.
This again? Use a dictionary. Really helpful so you know what you're talking about.
Thank you!
you're incorrect. Police officers consider non law enforcement civilians as do military. I'm retired military and still consider all others 'civilians'.
This again? Use a dictionary. Really helpful so you know what you're talking about.
Okay, great. Do you both feel better?
I'll admit that I was wrong, but it's truly unfortunate that you guys are more interested in proving a fellow pro-gun citizen wrong, rather than understanding my disgust about a government agent with the opinion that the citizens should not be free to exercise their rights.
Okay, great. Do you both feel better?
I'll admit that I was wrong, but it's truly unfortunate that you guys are more interested in proving a fellow pro-gun citizen wrong, rather than understanding my disgust about a government agent with the opinion that the citizens should not be free to exercise their rights.
We understand and agree with your disgust but YOU started it with your misinformation.
We understand and agree with your disgust but YOU started it with your misinformation.
What are we, Jr. High kids? :rofl:
You thought it was more important to make a snide comment (even though I agreed with you!!), rather than to simply educate and move on. The fact is, if you google "define: civilian" only 1 of the 14 definitions even mentions being part of the police department as a distinguishing factor between a civvie and non civvie.
What are we, Jr. High kids? :rofl:
You thought it was more important to make a snide comment (even though I agreed with you!!), rather than to simply educate and move on. The fact is, if you google "define: civilian" only 1 of the 14 definitions even mentions being part of the police department as a distinguishing factor between a civvie and non civvie.
The 'snide' comment came as a result of your ignorance on what constituted 'civilian'. You're just po'd cause you got slapped for it. Have a nice day.
The 'snide' comment came as a result of your ignorance on what constituted 'civilian'. You're just po'd cause you got slapped for it. Have a nice day.
Nobody slapped anybody, you just decided to start an argument where there wasn't one.
You too, stay safe.
Nobody slapped anybody, you just decided to start an argument where there wasn't one.
You too, stay safe.
You'd better go back to the first thread and see who started what.
That's funny, considering the police department is not a military organization.
Remember this comment? It was unnecessary and you were wrong. Wasn't any need for further commment. But since you insist..............
Remember this comment? It was unnecessary and you were wrong. Wasn't any need for further commment. But since you insist..............
I remember it clearly. It was directed at the police officer you were talking about who insisted that civilians shouldn't be allowed to carry whatsoever, it wasn't directed at yourself. :cool:
Personally, I have a high respect for the military and those who serve and have served, and I believe that a police officer who has never served in the military is a civilian just like I am. In addition to that, Google uses 14 dictionary sources to define the term "civilian" and 12 of them mention nothing about being a member of the police department. (Correcting my earlier claim of only one, because I reread and found a second one) Going down the list and picking the definition that suits your argument the best doesn't make you any more correct.
I remember it clearly. It was directed at the police officer you were talking about who insisted that civilians shouldn't be allowed to carry whatsoever, it wasn't directed at yourself. :cool:
Personally, I have a high respect for the military and those who serve and have served, and I believe that a police officer who has never served in the military is a civilian just like I am. In addition to that, Google uses 14 dictionary sources to define the term "civilian" and 12 of them mention nothing about being a member of the police department. (Correcting my earlier claim of only one, because I reread and found a second one) Going down the list and picking the definition that suits your argument the best doesn't make you any more correct.
I understand what you are saying. However, asking any police officer (including my son-in-law), they all refer to non military and non LEO as 'civilians'. That's the jargon they have used for as long as I can remember. I didn't pick the definition, the other poster did. You stated that you found it comical that the police officer would then be unarmed. I merely corrected that assumption.
I understand what you are saying. However, asking any police officer (including my son-in-law), they all refer to non military and non LEO as 'civilians'. That's the jargon they have used for as long as I can remember. I didn't pick the definition, the other poster did. You stated that you found it comical that the police officer would then be unarmed. I merely corrected that assumption.
I gotcha, I was just talking about the actual definition. Not the common jargon that everyone uses. I'm assuming that the jargon originated from back when most police officers were in fact former military, but it seems more and more officers have no prior service. If a bunch of McDonald's employees want to refer to themselves as chefs, it doesn't make them chefs, it makes them people who cook food who want to call themselves chefs.
Carry on friend, and thank you for your service!
I gotcha, I was just talking about the actual definition. Not the common jargon that everyone uses. I'm assuming that the jargon originated from back when most police officers were in fact former military, but it seems more and more officers have no prior service. If a bunch of McDonald's employees want to refer to themselves as chefs, it doesn't make them chefs, it makes them people who cook food who want to call themselves chefs.
Carry on friend, and thank you for your service!
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