My 1st knife confrontation (Almost) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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old wanderer
09-07-2009, 01:04
Last night I had just finished a 2 day edge weapons class at Front Sight. I went down to a local casino to have the prime rib buffet. I had been practicing for 2 days between open handed defenses and using my Kershaw Tyrade. I had the knife in clipped my pocket.

As I was returning from the buffet line, there was and old guy (a little grungy) setting at the table next to me by himself. I passed between the tables and took my seat, and I heard "If you stick your ass in my face one more time, I'm going to put my knife up it"..

I asked..."You talking too me??"

At this point he picks up his steak knife and points it at me..."You A>>H>>>"

Well I still had my Adrenalin level up pretty well from all the training, I knew he was no match for me, (and a little part of my really wanted to use some of this training I had just spent 2 days doing), but seeing one of the security people looking over I just raised my hand and waved him over.

When he arrived I said "This man is threatened to stab me with he knife in his hand" The dumb Sh.. was still pointing the knife at me, and like the story goes the rest is all history...gave a statement to the police.

What was most interesting too me, was my reaction, there was no fear or nervousness, I knew with a certainty that I could take his knife, and put him in any medical condition I was motivated to do.

The problem is you seldom get to train against others with you knife, and I really wish there were places to go on a regular basis to do this. I really did enjoy the training I got in 2 days, and will try and repeat it every year.

Lumpy0935
09-07-2009, 01:10
Glad you weren't hurt. Be wary the cocky individual, as they often run into someone bigger / stronger / faster / better with a knife than they are. I'm just saying.

Softballguy
09-07-2009, 01:11
Grumpy old guy eh?

Find out where he lives and go play on his lawn . . .

trifecta
09-07-2009, 01:16
Sometimes "I'm sorry" works. Even when you aren't and maybe didn't do anything. Stabbing an old guy might work too but it's a lot more paperwork.

old wanderer
09-07-2009, 09:35
In this case, it was clear he was looking for trouble, and 90% of people there would have apologized, BUT:

1. I never thought it would be anything but words, from some grump that was used to yelling at people and having them avoid him. Maybe it was time for him to learn some humility, and civilized behavior??

2. Physically, he was about 150, with no physical conditioning, I am 5'10 185 and not much fat.

3. I was surprise when he picked up the knife. BUT, I had just finished a session with a guy with a rubber knife attacking pretty hard trying to get through my defenses and I came out of that with a physically fit opponent without a mark, so I was 99% certain I could wrap is knife arm, and trap the knife, give a elbow blow to the face, then bring the his head down for some knee blows. I had done this 30 to 40 times that day in training. So one part of me was saying bring it on. However having the security guard close by let the "PC" way prevail.

4. I never had any inclination to reach for my knife, as I was confident this could be handled with simple marshal arts principals. In fact looking back on it it would have been pretty funny to have pulled out my Kershaw, flicked the blade open and repeat the words of Crocodile Dundee "That's not a knife, this is a knife".

trifecta
09-07-2009, 10:29
I don't disagree his behavior was inexcusable. I assume you also realize if an old timer hasn't learned how to act in public, it is unlikely you will teach him a lesson. Doing the right thing is not just being PC. The right thing may be different in different circumstances, but it doesn't change just because somebody is watching. I understand being a little bit "full of yourself" after some great training. Just don't let it take you over the top. It's not TV and I assume you are not Chuck Norris. I had a fake headline flash through my head when I saw your original post. "Senior citizen in jail after sticking knife up innocent man's rear. Victim will survive but will poop in a plastic bag the rest of his life." The suspect admitted he threatened the victim with the attack. The victim told the suspect he was trained in knife defense tactics and would like to see him try it. The suspect is a decorated Marine veteran who taught hand to hand combat for over 20 years. Recently, he has suffered from mental illness and doctors have been working to adjust his meds.

Seriously, good job training. Just don't go making assumptions about potential opponents.

Fenris
09-07-2009, 19:11
Not to play devil's advocate, but did stop to think that you actually did get your ass a little too close to his face while he was trying to eat?

stgha
09-07-2009, 19:45
If you want to do knife work on a regular basis, see if there are any Filipino Kali/Escrima/Arnis classes in your area. Go check out a class and talk to the instructor and see how much blade work they do (some concentrate on stickwork more than blade).
I have trained in numerous systems, and tend to gravitate to the more "blade oriented" ones.

Steve

BTW, congrats on getting away with no harm done (to either of you).....

farley45
09-07-2009, 20:13
Part of further training in any self defense should be humility and restraint. Knowing what you can do to others should stop you from doing them, and walking away from every situation you can walk away from. If you have to fight then fight, but if there is a way around it then walk away with all involved breathing.

I see where you are coming from though. Heck it is just like someone with a CCW and packing a .45 IWB all uknown to a jerk egging him into a fist fight. I have been in this situation before and it is very difficult to walk away from, but knowing how it could end is all the more reason to suck it up and leave it be.

Good on you for walking though.:wavey:

mossy500camo
09-08-2009, 18:46
Yeah I find the new out of the class "Cocky" martial artist, knife training, self defense trainee. Just looking for trouble and wanting to use their new skills. Those old steak knives wouldnt cut butter. Chill and keep your ass out an old farts face. Or better yet move to another table.

Jeepnik
09-08-2009, 18:52
Grumpy old guy eh?

Find out where he lives and go play on his lawn . . .

Good way to find yourself will a few extra 00 lead pellets in your hide. The OP handled it correctly, even if he was at first tempted. But then we all are at times. It's human nature.

Jeepnik
09-08-2009, 18:54
Old Wanderer. You say you trained against an aggressive opponent and didn't get a mark. Pretty amazing. Hope you remember the first rule of a knife fight. You "WILL" get cut. Go up against a guy with Kali training and you will get cut many times. Probably before you can figure out he's cutting you.

KING-PIN
09-08-2009, 18:54
Deleted.

ammoguy3460
09-08-2009, 19:02
Knives are seriously nasty business. I've been training in martial arts (JKD, kali, escima, and the like) for more than a decade and the one thing I know about knife fights is that you don't want to be in one. I'll often run drills where we give a new guy in the class a marker and put on a white T-shirt and even the most experienced guys get marks.

Stay the heck away from knife fights, period. They are some seriously bad mojo.

wrenrj1
09-08-2009, 19:03
Seriously, do you have a big ass? I believe there was an SNL skit about this...Seriously, I'm sorry goes a long way. Disarming an old man of a steak knife would have caused more of a scene, regardless of the situation you would have been the bad guy.

Always be nice, the first defense.

j-glock22
09-08-2009, 19:04
Seems like the ol' guy was drinkin' a bit... you did good keeping your cool. Glad all that ended well ended well.

rollosan
09-08-2009, 19:18
If you want to do knife work on a regular basis, see if there are any Filipino Kali/Escrima/Arnis classes in your area. Go check out a class and talk to the instructor and see how much blade work they do (some concentrate on stickwork more than blade).
I have trained in numerous systems, and tend to gravitate to the more "blade oriented" ones.

Steve

BTW, congrats on getting away with no harm done (to either of you).....

I actually did some research into this. Very interesting stuff. I never knew any of this existed. Thanks for bringing it to light.

old wanderer
09-08-2009, 22:04
Seriously, do you have a big ass? I believe there was an SNL skit about this...Seriously, I'm sorry goes a long way. Disarming an old man of a steak knife would have caused more of a scene, regardless of the situation you would have been the bad guy.

Always be nice, the first defense.

No I do not have a big ass, (5'10" 180#) and I was no where near his face...this was an isle between tables....I was already seated when he addressed me.

As too being nice,,,,I was...I smiled nicely and asked...."You talking about me, old man??"

That is where he picked up the knife.

And you are right, unless someone (hopefully the more the better) saw and heard everything, I could have been the bad guy. Hence I de-escalated the situation and let the casino cop take care of it.

Warp
09-08-2009, 22:55
"You talking to me, old man??" doesn't seem to be a phrase that is truly nice, no matter how it is stated.

JMO

stgha
09-09-2009, 10:49
Yeah I find the new out of the class "Cocky" martial artist, knife training, self defense trainee. Just looking for trouble and wanting to use their new skills. Those old steak knives wouldnt cut butter. Chill and keep your ass out an old farts face. Or better yet move to another table.

Damn, no call for being so hostile....
I have run into a few of the "cocky" ones too, there are some in every bunch.
As for the steak knife not being able to cut butter-so what?
Many people die from being stabbed with a screwdriver (I'm sure it would have a hard time with butter too), dosn't mean you shouldn't take it seriously.

Steve

rmc85
09-14-2009, 09:20
"you talking to me, old man??" doesn't seem to be a phrase that is truly nice, no matter how it is stated.

Jmo

+ 1,000,000,000

mossy500camo
09-16-2009, 08:20
Damn, no call for being so hostile....
I have run into a few of the "cocky" ones too, there are some in every bunch.
As for the steak knife not being able to cut butter-so what?
Many people die from being stabbed with a screwdriver (I'm sure it would have a hard time with butter too), dosn't mean you shouldn't take it seriously.

Steve

Yes I would agee. Screw Drivers can be used to stab.

Steak knives that I have seen would do nothing more than bend or break. But anyways..... Unless you are trained with the terrorist; that can actually use plastic spoons for weapons. Well? then a Steak knife might be harmful.


ps
I can just see a big ***, just out of class attitude, "with a friendly smile" saying "you talking to me old man"? Im ROFLMAO! haha Great humor!

sns3guppy
09-17-2009, 00:27
I knew with a certainty that I could take his knife, and put him in any medical condition I was motivated to do.


It's great that you feel confident after being in a training environment. That kind of overconfidence can get you killed in the real world.

vab
11-18-2009, 13:56
I would think the police would frown on someone getting into a fight with an old man. Old, out of shape man, against a younger man with martial arts training. I can see the headlines now.

Yes first post and I joined in 2008 :). Sorry this is an older thread.

trifecta
11-18-2009, 14:10
I would think the police would frown on someone getting into a fight with an old man. Old, out of shape man, against a younger man with martial arts training. I can see the headlines now.

Yes first post and I joined in 2008 :). Sorry this is an older thread.

Welcome and speak up a little more often. I would have forgotten my log in info by now.

Cody Jarrett
11-18-2009, 14:19
Sometimes "I'm sorry" works. Even when you aren't and maybe didn't do anything. Stabbing an old guy might work too but it's a lot more paperwork.
My thoughts exactly. Don't be so quick to ruin your life.

bootsx
11-18-2009, 16:46
Last night I had just finished a 2 day edge weapons class at Front Sight. I went down to a local casino to have the prime rib buffet. I had been practicing for 2 days between open handed defenses and using my Kershaw Tyrade. I had the knife in clipped my pocket.

As I was returning from the buffet line, there was and old guy (a little grungy) setting at the table next to me by himself. I passed between the tables and took my seat, and I heard "If you stick your ass in my face one more time, I'm going to put my knife up it"..

I asked..."You talking too me??"

At this point he picks up his steak knife and points it at me..."You A>>H>>>"

Well I still had my Adrenalin level up pretty well from all the training, I knew he was no match for me, (and a little part of my really wanted to use some of this training I had just spent 2 days doing), but seeing one of the security people looking over I just raised my hand and waved him over.

When he arrived I said "This man is threatened to stab me with he knife in his hand" The dumb Sh.. was still pointing the knife at me, and like the story goes the rest is all history...gave a statement to the police.

What was most interesting too me, was my reaction, there was no fear or nervousness, I knew with a certainty that I could take his knife, and put him in any medical condition I was motivated to do.

The problem is you seldom get to train against others with you knife, and I really wish there were places to go on a regular basis to do this. I really did enjoy the training I got in 2 days, and will try and repeat it every year.

Get real! You somewhat admitted you were looking for a confrontation. And spend some time learning to write/type. Having studied martial arts I am aware that avoidance is as good as a victory. If you are percieved to have used excess force, you're going to jail boy!

wrenrj1
11-18-2009, 18:27
"You talkin to me old man?" would be inappropriate indeed, but in a heavy Tony Soprano Italian accent with lots of spit would indeed be fun to do just for a reaction (my warped sense of humor).

I'd stop though at "Say hello to my little friend" though, unless you're introducing him to your wife or something...Well, meaning your wife is small and petite and...I'd better stop there

BAD BAD IDEA.

w4004p
11-20-2009, 14:41
No I do not have a big ass, (5'10" 180#) and I was no where near his face...this was an isle between tables....I was already seated when he addressed me.

As too being nice,,,,I was...I smiled nicely and asked...."You talking about me, old man??"

That is where he picked up the knife.

And you are right, unless someone (hopefully the more the better) saw and heard everything, I could have been the bad guy. Hence I de-escalated the situation and let the casino cop take care of it.

CLASSIC, i love it :rofl:

way to go, as far as being patient with him. good decision to relay it to the proper people. really sounds like all round good decision making.

Maine1
12-19-2009, 19:12
:yawn::whistling:

kahrcarrier
12-20-2009, 15:46
I would have shivved the old guy with a spork, and left him lying on his salisbury steak.

Davegrave
12-20-2009, 15:59
How much you want for that weed, old man?

Which one of you turds is gonna get smacked in the mouth?!?!

:rofl:

bigdawgz28
12-20-2009, 18:07
As my Kali instructer told us "Everyone gets cut in a knife fight" ..Its just a matter of who can avoid the major wounds..To be honest Id put a crazy guy up againts someone who had a 2 day class anyday

walkin' trails
12-27-2009, 14:29
Stay the heck away from knife fights, period. They are some seriously bad mojo.

I've got to agree. I read a magazine article a couple of years ago that addressed real world knife fights. I think Ernest Emerson wrote it. Most of the stabbing resulted from a guy (police included) going into a fight and didn't see the knife until they'd already been cut. The vast majority of the guys using the knives in those situations didn't appear to have ever attended any knife training, let alone being martial artists. I carry a folder or two, but I harbor no illusions that I'm any good with one. They're last ditch when I'm not using them for utility chores.

A friend of mine years ago followed an instructor named Hockheim (spelling?). I don't know if he's still around, but his knife training system was based on the Fillipino disciplines. His attitude towards employing a knife for self defense seemed to appeal to common sense.

MBG20
01-01-2010, 18:31
people who fight with knives end up shot....

lethal tupperwa
01-01-2010, 18:43
Glad you weren't hurt. Be wary the cocky individual, as they often run into someone bigger / stronger / faster / better with a knife than they are. I'm just saying.

older, more devious, with more experience.