Would you help me understand AOW? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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deadday
09-08-2009, 11:00
I would like (at some point) to purchase an AOW shotgun. I'm really looking at the Serbu super shorty. Since this weapon was never a full-sized shotgun, it falls into the AOW category and not SBS, right?

And the tax to purchase an AOW is $5? Whereas the tax to make an AOW is $200?

Thanks,
drew

Fireman1291
09-08-2009, 11:28
You are correct, its a neat little $5 stamp item. To be able to stow a 12g shotgun in a nightstand is pretty sweet. Id buy one from my dealer if he didnt have a $200 markup on them.

r2kba
09-08-2009, 16:44
You are correct, its a neat little $5 stamp item. To be able to stow a 12g shotgun in a nightstand is pretty sweet. Id buy one from my dealer if he didnt have a $200 markup on them.



Well cmon now, who would you expect to pay for the $200 registration fee, Obama?? :supergrin:

UZIFORME
09-08-2009, 18:27
I would like (at some point) to purchase an AOW shotgun. I'm really looking at the Serbu super shorty. Since this weapon was never a full-sized shotgun, it falls into the AOW category and not SBS, right?

And the tax to purchase an AOW is $5? Whereas the tax to make an AOW is $200?

Thanks,
drew

Size is not the issue, the AOW shotguns needs to never have had a shoulder fired buttstock.

beefcakeb0
02-12-2010, 22:16
New here. Hope this is not out of line... but "needs to never have had a shoulder fired buttstock." I own a virgin shotgun, does a dealer have to do the conversion for the $5 or can I? any solutions to this?

RWBlue
02-12-2010, 23:13
New here. Hope this is not out of line... but "needs to never have had a shoulder fired buttstock." I own a virgin shotgun, does a dealer have to do the conversion for the $5 or can I? any solutions to this?

If you convert it, it is $200.
If a manufacturer does it, I think it is $5.

After it is converted, it is $5 to transfer it.

Even if you owned it.
Gave it to him to file the paperwork (make it an AOW)
It will then cost you time and $5 to transfer it back.


BTW, when you say a virgin Shotgun, I assumed you meant it had never had a stock put on it. If you mean something else, let me know, my answer may change.

RWBlue
02-12-2010, 23:21
I would like (at some point) to purchase an AOW shotgun. I'm really looking at the Serbu super shorty. Since this weapon was never a full-sized shotgun, it falls into the AOW category and not SBS, right?

And the tax to purchase an AOW is $5? Whereas the tax to make an AOW is $200?

Thanks,
drew

The Super Shorty may be a AOW or it may be a SBS.
Most of the Super Shortys are AOW. They should NEVER have a stock put on them. They can NEVER be mounted under the barrel of an AR.

There are also some Super Shortys made that are SBS. These can have a stock put on them. They can (although I have never seen it done with a Super Shorty) be mounted under an AR to make one heck of an over under.

Personally, I think I would go with the SBS. I mean if you are going to spend that kind of money for the super shorty.... But then I really want a heavy weight over under combo gun.

As far as shotgun on/in the night stand, I am not a big fan of using an NFA item for personal protection when a non-NFA item is just as good. It just seems like a legal nightmare waiting to happen. Not to mention, if you have more trouble than can be stopped with a dozen or so rounds of 45acp, you need to seriously think about changing locations or jobs or...:wavey:

beefcakeb0
02-13-2010, 02:38
The Super Shorty may be a AOW or it may be a SBS.
snip..
Personally, I think I would go with the SBS. I mean if you are going to spend that kind of money for the super shorty.... But then I really want a heavy weight over under combo gun.

As far as shotgun on/in the night stand, I am not a big fan of using an NFA item for personal protection when a non-NFA item is just as good. It just seems like a legal nightmare waiting to happen. Not to mention, if you have more trouble than can be stopped with a dozen or so rounds of 45acp, you need to seriously think about changing locations or jobs or...:wavey:

I dunno, I like a SBS. One would think shorter barrel length aids less wall penetration.

RWBlue
02-13-2010, 13:20
I dunno, I like a SBS. One would think shorter barrel length aids less wall penetration.

I passed some emails back and forth with Serbu many years ago. If I remember right there wasn't much difference in velocity between the shorty and a full sized shotgun.

Based on the box of truth, some things posted here on GT and some personal experience, I think the buck and slugs are going through multiple walls.

beefcakeb0
02-13-2010, 15:44
If so I appreciate the OP, and do not want to taint. But I too need help understanding. Again if this is out of line, i can relocate.

RWBlue
02-13-2010, 15:50
If so I appreciate the OP, and do not want to taint. But I too need help understanding. Again if this is out of line, i can relocate.

I think we have answered the question, so lets hi jack the thread.
deadday, if we haven't answer the question, let us know. We will come back to clarify the answers.

beefcakeb0, what is the question?

Liquid
02-13-2010, 18:47
they look pretty neat. but for 700 i wonder if it would be cheaper to have a regular one cut down and pay the 200.

beefcakeb0
02-13-2010, 20:08
I think we have answered the question, so lets hi jack the thread.
deadday, if we haven't answer the question, let us know. We will come back to clarify the answers.

beefcakeb0, what is the question?

Ok. so yes to the virgin question. never had a shoulder stock. So I would need a dealer, probably with a type 7 ffl/02 SOT?

give? or sell them my future nfa, have them convert it, transfer back to me. would they (figuratively) rape me for the hassle? what would something along those lines run money wise?

I understand this is all hypothetical, and I would look into it more, I am trying to get the tracks in line before I rivet them in place. and trying to save a buck wherever I can.

thanx for your responses,

deadday
02-13-2010, 20:13
I think we have answered the question, so lets hi jack the thread.
deadday, if we haven't answer the question, let us know. We will come back to clarify the answers.

beefcakeb0, what is the question?

I think you guys have it covered, but I am enjoying the continued discussion!

r2kba
02-14-2010, 22:53
Ok. so yes to the virgin question. never had a shoulder stock. So I would need a dealer, probably with a type 7 ffl/02 SOT?

give? or sell them my future nfa, have them convert it, transfer back to me. would they (figuratively) rape me for the hassle? what would something along those lines run money wise?

I understand this is all hypothetical, and I would look into it more, I am trying to get the tracks in line before I rivet them in place. and trying to save a buck wherever I can.

thanx for your responses,



If you walk into a retail gun store, like at walmart or academy sports, and you find a shotgun with a pistol grip on it, You can file a Form-1 for an AOW on that shotgun.

The ones with the full stocks, not legal. You can file the short barreled shotgun form though. Either way, both $200.00 if you make it yourself.

RWBlue
02-15-2010, 00:09
If you walk into a retail gun store, like at walmart or academy sports, and you find a shotgun with a pistol grip on it, You can file a Form-1 for an AOW on that shotgun.

The ones with the full stocks, not legal. You can file the short barreled shotgun form though. Either way, both $200.00 if you make it yourself.

What he said, for the make it yourself route.
And if it is going to cost your $200, you might as well do a SBS unless it is illegal in your state.

As for giving it to a SOT manufacturer and having them file the paperwork and transfer it back to you. It is theoretically possible, but I don't know of anyone who made it work. Maybe Freakshow will show up, he knows these laws better than me.

Now, as I understand it, Serbu made that offer at one point in time to police departments to convert their shotguns to SuperShortys, but being the police, it is a different ball game.

r2kba
02-15-2010, 12:36
What he said, for the make it yourself route.
And if it is going to cost your $200, you might as well do a SBS unless it is illegal in your state.

As for giving it to a SOT manufacturer and having them file the paperwork and transfer it back to you. It is theoretically possible, but I don't know of anyone who made it work. Maybe Freakshow will show up, he knows these laws better than me.

Now, as I understand it, Serbu made that offer at one point in time to police departments to convert their shotguns to SuperShortys, but being the police, it is a different ball game.


Yep, and your paying the $200 fee anyway in the cost of the super-shorty. Those things are not cheap.

beefcakeb0
02-15-2010, 13:44
just wondering the cheapest, most efficient way to go shorter.

CAR-AR-M16
02-16-2010, 09:44
When an 07/02 FFL/SOT Manufacturer makes an NFA weapon (MG, SBR, SBS, AOW, etc..) they register it with ATF on a tax free ATF Form 2. They pay a yearly fee to be licensed as a manufacturer. They do not pay a per gun tax when they make them.


So, if you can find one to do the work for you it would be as follows:

You buy a factory pistol gripped only shotgun from wherever.

You send it to an 07/02 FFL/SOT.

07/02 converts it to AOW at whatever cost he charges to do work.

07/02 registers the new AOW with ATF on Form 2.

07/02 then transfers it to you on a Form 4 for a $5 tax (assuming you are in the same state) + whatever he charges to do the transfer. If you are in a different state he would transfer it on a tax free Form 3 to a 01/03 FFL/SOT Dealer in your state who would then transfer it to you on a Form 4 for a $5 tax + whatever he charges to do the transfer.


Now, in my opinion the cheapest way to go would be buy an old 870 for $150, submit a Form 1 ($200 tax) to make it an SBS, once approved either buy a short barrel or chop yours. You can configure your SBS with a stock a pistol grip or any way you want. Here is my 870 14" SBS that I have about $575 in including the $200 Form 1 tax.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/CAR-AR-M16/Remington870.jpg

UZIFORME
02-17-2010, 07:11
When an 07/02 FFL/SOT Manufacturer makes an NFA weapon (MG, SBR, SBS, AOW, etc..) they register it with ATF on a tax free ATF Form 2. They pay a yearly fee to be licensed as a manufacturer. They do not pay a per gun tax when they make them.


So, if you can find one to do the work for you it would be as follows:

You buy a factory pistol gripped only shotgun from wherever.

You send it to an 07/02 FFL/SOT.

07/02 converts it to AOW at whatever cost he charges to do work.

07/02 registers the new AOW with ATF on Form 2.

07/02 then transfers it to you on a Form 4 for a $5 tax (assuming you are in the same state) + whatever he charges to do the transfer. If you are in a different state he would transfer it on a tax free Form 3 to a 01/03 FFL/SOT Dealer in your state who would then transfer it to you on a Form 4 for a $5 tax + whatever he charges to do the transfer.


Now, in my opinion the cheapest way to go would be buy an old 870 for $150, submit a Form 1 ($200 tax) to make it an SBS, once approved either buy a short barrel or chop yours. You can configure your SBS with a stock a pistol grip or any way you want. Here is my 870 14" SBS that I have about $575 in including the $200 Form 1 tax.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/CAR-AR-M16/Remington870.jpg


Pretty close but not all the banannas.

If the pistol gripped shotgun is provided to the manuf. by the transferee, then the manuf. can return the shotgun direct to the owner via tax paid form 4 even to out of state owners without going through a dealer in the owners state of residence. It is no different that if a handgun owner sends a handgun to a gunsmith for repair or customization and the gunsmith returns it direct across state lines, except in this case the repair involves converting and registration as NFA.

Darin Reiss
02-17-2010, 11:12
UZIFORME hit the nail on the head.

Darin

CAR-AR-M16
02-18-2010, 12:50
Pretty close but not all the banannas.

If the pistol gripped shotgun is provided to the manuf. by the transferee, then the manuf. can return the shotgun direct to the owner via tax paid form 4 even to out of state owners without going through a dealer in the owners state of residence. It is no different that if a handgun owner sends a handgun to a gunsmith for repair or customization and the gunsmith returns it direct across state lines, except in this case the repair involves converting and registration as NFA.

I was not aware of that. Thanks for the info.