G20 SF, First 600 Rounds [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Morley Menthols
09-19-2009, 19:30
I purchased a 20 SF in late February and have had 4 trips to the range. Shot the first 300 rounds with the gun completely stock from the factory. Then I installed a GlockMeister non-captured stainless steel guide rod. This is the only modification I plan to do. There are 300 rounds shot with the steel guide rod. There have been zero malfunctions so far thru 600 rounds. This G20 SF is not the first 10mm pistol I have owned but it is my first Glock. I got rid of all my other 10mm pistols and I have another G20 SF on order. The G20 SF I have now functioned flawlessly with six different brands of ammo, both ball and hollow point, and I even run some of my stash of original Norma 200 and 170 grain thru it. I plan on getting more range time and when there's 5000 rounds shot thru it I'll make another report for you 10 lovers!

7.62FMJ
09-20-2009, 12:26
You may consider upgrading the barrel if you plan to use some super hot 10mm loads. The Glock barrel, for some odd ass reason, despite numerous issues, still uses a partially supported chamber. This results in many KB's when using hot ammo, though it has also happened with standard factory ammo. Why Glock has yet to address this- remains a mystery.

alwaysshootin
09-20-2009, 13:53
Sounds great on the new G20SF. As far as chamber support, my first G20, a second generation, had terrible chamber support. My second, is a few month old 20SF, and the chamber support is as good as my two after market barrels! One is a standard length Federal, and the other is a Lone Wolf 6".

Morley Menthols
09-20-2009, 17:50
I thank both of you for the advice on the shooting of hot loads and the use of aftermarket barrels. I do not shoot reloads and I am going to stick to major brands like Winchester, Remington, Georgia Arms, PMC, Hornady and Blazer. After all, a medium load 10mm usually has more power than most other semi-auto calibers. I have no desire to try to push my gun past its design. I have read nothing but good reports about DT ammo but I am not interested in using this in my Glock. I will use my S&W 44 Magnum when I feel the desire for instant overkill. The idea of a Lone Wolf 40 S&W conversion barrel is an interesting idea though.

7.62FMJ
09-20-2009, 19:14
I thank both of you for the advice on the shooting of hot loads and the use of aftermarket barrels. I do not shoot reloads and I am going to stick to major brands like Winchester, Remington, Georgia Arms, PMC, Hornady and Blazer. After all, a medium load 10mm usually has more power than most other semi-auto calibers. I have no desire to try to push my gun past its design. I have read nothing but good reports about DT ammo but I am not interested in using this in my Glock. I will use my S&W 44 Magnum when I feel the desire for instant overkill. The idea of a Lone Wolf 40 S&W conversion barrel is an interesting idea though.


Well just remember, the "major" brands for the most part perform at the .40 short & weak specs except at a much greater cost since they are loaded in 10mm casings. If you are only going to shoot the major brands basic ammo then you are better off with a .40 conversion barrel anyway. You are not "pushing" anything until your loads are pushing above 850 ft lbs energy transfer.

alwaysshootin
09-21-2009, 05:43
Having a G20, and not shooting DT"s offerings, or rolling your own to the equivalent, is kind of like having a S+W 44 magnum, and only shooting 44 Special ammo through it. You spent more money to purchase the G20, then you would have spent on a G22. Like 7.62 mentioned, and to add, the G20 was designed for full power loads, and you won't wear it out. So, enjoy it the way it was intended. Nothing wrong with shooting reduced loads for fun, but really, what is more fun then shooting full loads of 10 MM?

Dave T
09-21-2009, 09:03
You guys are being a little disingenuous. Both the Hornady 180g XTP and the Winchester 175g Silvertip chrono somewhere between 1150 and 1200 fps. That's 200-250 fps faster than the standard 40 S&W 180g load (~950 fps).

Dave

Gary1911A1
09-21-2009, 10:58
You guys are being a little disingenuous. Both the Hornady 180g XTP and the Winchester 175g Silvertip chrono somewhere between 1150 and 1200 fps. That's 200-250 fps faster than the standard 40 S&W 180g load (~950 fps).

Dave

Agree. The above ammo isn't the 10MM Lite the FBI and some others used. Morley, enjoy your 20SF. I myself would look at putting some aftermarket sights on it, but if you're happy with the factory sights that's fine.:wavey:

Morley Menthols
09-21-2009, 17:42
Hello everybody! I posted this thread to explore and document the reliability of my recently purchased Glock 20 SF. I am 58 years old, been shooting guns for over 40 years. I have a 4 year college degree so I am not exactly stupid. I have been shooting 10mm since it was around. Guns chambered for it have finally caught up with the technology to handle it. Glock is the first pistol to show me it will handle the 10mm reliably, which in my definition means every time I pull the trigger it goes bang. I have owned the best high dollar 10mm auto pistols you can name, I won't name them on this site, but I can tell you now they were not reliable and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough. I bought the SF model because Glock finally made a 10mm that would fit my hand and I love it. I wanted this thread to be a documentation of Glock's reliability instead of what was the best 10mm load to shoot. In my opinion everybody who has contributed to this thread has made positive contributions. At age 58 I still believe I can learn from other people's experience. If my G20 SF fails, you will hear the details, and if it keeps on going bang, you will hear about that too. If I need a huge hole in some zombie I'll shoot both knees then crank my chainsaw up. My practice ammo is my defense ammo and my defense ammo is what I practice with. I know what various 10mm loads do as I have shot thousands of them over the years. My best friend, who has served time on the DMZ in South Korea, is a 1911 45 caliber shooter. He won't comment on my Glock and I suppose this is the best compliment I could ever hope for on my G20 SF. I hope you Glock 10mm lovers keep on posting and your gun keeps going bang! I promise to keep reading what you post!

Taterhead
09-25-2009, 16:14
You may consider upgrading the barrel if you plan to use some super hot 10mm loads. The Glock barrel, for some odd ass reason, despite numerous issues, still uses a partially supported chamber. This results in many KB's when using hot ammo, though it has also happened with standard factory ammo. Why Glock has yet to address this- remains a mystery.

I am pretty sure that using loads within SAAMI specs will be ok with the stock barrel. I bet that Mike McNett would vouch for his heater loads through a stock barrel as well. His loads are as hot as factory loads get. His performance specs are usually listed as shot from a G20 and G29. No disclaimer, no warnings about stock G20 barrels. McNett would probably know if there were a problem with his loads in a stock pistol.

Would Glock release a platform, in today's litigious environment, that was incapable of handling factory loads within standard pressures - even on the hot side of standard? I've heard a lot of claims about KBs over the years; but I don't know if the evidence supports those claims that a stock G20 is prone to Ka-Booms when using factory ammo - even Buffalo Bore or DT.

Any firearm can KB with factory ammo, but hot-rodding pressure levels obviously increase the probabilities. By "hot ammo" I assume that you mean pressures > 37,500 psi. Stick to SAAMI specs and the stock barrel should be fine. I don't believe in shooting +p 10mm loads in any barrel - fully supported or not.

That being said, an aftermarket barrel can have less chamber slop. This presents the potential for greater accuracy.

Taterhead
09-25-2009, 16:18
You guys are being a little disingenuous. Both the Hornady 180g XTP and the Winchester 175g Silvertip chrono somewhere between 1150 and 1200 fps. That's 200-250 fps faster than the standard 40 S&W 180g load (~950 fps).

Dave

You are right that these loads are > than 40 S&W loads. I would feel confident with either load in a pinch. However, I was quite surprised that the 175gr Silvertip only chronied an average of ~ 1125 fps from my G20. Still better than the standard 40 S&W.

Dave T
09-25-2009, 17:42
You are right that these loads are > than 40 S&W loads. I would feel confident with either load in a pinch. However, I was quite surprised that the 175gr Silvertip only chronied an average of ~ 1125 fps from my G20. Still better than the standard 40 S&W.

I got 1167 fps but that was several years ago. Even in a 5" barrel I've never seen anyone get the claimed 1290 fps from Sivlertips, but then I've never seen anyone get the factory claimed velocity from any ammo, even the much touted Double Tap.

Dave

texas 48
03-26-2010, 22:52
I am pretty sure that using loads within SAAMI specs will be ok with the stock barrel. I bet that Mike McNett would vouch for his heater loads through a stock barrel as well. His loads are as hot as factory loads get. His performance specs are usually listed as shot from a G20 and G29. No disclaimer, no warnings about stock G20 barrels. McNett would probably know if there were a problem with his loads in a stock pistol.

Would Glock release a platform, in today's litigious environment, that was incapable of handling factory loads within standard pressures - even on the hot side of standard? I've heard a lot of claims about KBs over the years; but I don't know if the evidence supports those claims that a stock G20 is prone to Ka-Booms when using factory ammo - even Buffalo Bore or DT.

Any firearm can KB with factory ammo, but hot-rodding pressure levels obviously increase the probabilities. By "hot ammo" I assume that you mean pressures > 37,500 psi. Stick to SAAMI specs and the stock barrel should be fine. I don't believe in shooting +p 10mm loads in any barrel - fully supported or not.

That being said, an aftermarket barrel can have less chamber slop. This presents the potential for greater accuracy.

Newer G20' s have improved chamber support and I have fired thousands of rounds of DT and ammo I have made my self from new components with energy levels that exceed 600 Ft lbs with very few Glock smiles from either ammunition.

Anemic factory loads will never give you a KB unless your bullet is severely setback or poorly manufactured and I suspect that most KB's that do occur come from ammo that has been chambered and re chambered many times or are overcharged or reloaded with cases that have been fired too many times. Admittedly cases do swell more in Glock barrels becasue of the looser chambers. I would be willing to wager that new ammunition would not be a significant source of a KB in a Glock.

I would not hesitate to practice with an aftermarket barrel because it is easier on brass and I reload. I would never carry with an aftermarket barrel because Glock barrels are designed for combat which means more generous tolerances regarding chambers and feed ramps. The only FTF I have ever had in a Glock came with an after market barrel.

The design provides reliability in combat situations, enables gun to fire wide varieties of ammo and to fire dirty. Glock design is not for re-loaders and plinkers but for the most reliability when your life is on the line and that's what it does better than any other auto loading handgun.

I believe that KB are not inherent of the design but rather from shooters who push the limits of the design and would probably blowup any weapon because of their lack of knowledge of charge and setback or poor ammunition.

agtman
03-27-2010, 07:01
I got 1167 fps but that was several years ago. Even in a 5" barrel I've never seen anyone get the claimed 1290 fps from Sivlertips, but then I've never seen anyone get the factory claimed velocity from any ammo, even the much touted Double Tap.
Dave

Both Dave's and Taterhead's posts only re-prove the point I've been making for years about Winchester's 10mm STHP load, as well as other Brokeback Mountain "10mm" ammo: don't waste your money on factory ammo that's "10mm" in name only but .40-level in performance ... :whistling:

And the sub-1200fps chrono data from a "10mm" load that's supposed to be melting the molecules at "1290fps" is a joke. :upeyes:

Even factoring for that 5.5" secret-squirrel factory tube, the round should still be doing significantly more than, e.g., 1170fps, from real-world barrels of 4.6" (G20s) or 5" (S&W 1006s/Deltas).

Why pay for a more expensive case AND the down-loaded performance (ballistics)?

And, with the STHPs, you're also paying for an outdated, first-generation 10mm HP: Winchester, in its only 10mm offering, hasn't even bothered to replace the ST with the newer projectile used in the .40 loadings marketed to L.E. and its civiy CCW customers. :upeyes:

Less-money-wasting alternatives include:

(a) skipping the 10mm altogether and getting some kind of .40S&W pistol, Glock or otherwise, ... or

(b) get set up for reloading 10mm, so then you can load up anything from the mild, "twink" stuff to nuclear-level 10mm and save money too, ... or

(c) for G20/G29 users, pick up one of the several drop-in .40S&W conversion tubes available for when twink-level fodder is all you feel like shooting, and save the stock 10mm barrel for shooting REAL high-performance 10mm ammo, either factory or your own handloads.

Now, FWIW, I don't have a problem with keeping a few boxes of 10mm anything on hand "just in case ...," since in the current economic and political environ, no one's sure what's next in the ammo world. ... But, that said, between Win's STHPs and Hornady's 180gn XTP (@ 1180fps/556fpe, w/ some lots running a bit hotter) I'd opt for the latter if I needed a mid-range load. That's because in my experience Hornady loads it consistently and the XTP, IMO, is a better bullet than the ST due to its having a much better penetrative capability.

:cool:

Retired Squid
04-03-2010, 16:45
Well put 30 rounds through mine Friday, found all my brass after shooting. :thumbsup:
Got home and brass no where to be found. :faint:

WTF over, one of you yahoo's filch my brass? :whistling:

DrtyHarry
04-03-2010, 16:59
I have no desire to try to push my gun past its design.

From my understanding, it's really going to be hard to do that as this puppy was meant to take the abuse.

DH