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3rdgen40
09-28-2009, 02:41
Just found this at a local shop.It comes in a plain white box with black lettering.Is this a new load ? Is it the same as Ranger load ? Winchester doesn't list it on their site.Just wondering if its good enough for personal defense ?If so, its my new carry load since its only 24.99 per 50.Any info appreciated....

***UPDATE***
I picked up another 4 boxes today that my dealer held back for me.I have 300 rounds now...:dancingbanana:

G26S239
09-28-2009, 03:31
It might be the same load the FBI adopted. My ranger ammo is in the yellow boxes.

MURRAY
09-28-2009, 05:42
looks like it may be an over run or they got ahold of surplus I have seen the loads in the plain black and white box before also

3rdgen40
09-28-2009, 05:46
So, is this a Ranger load in a generic box or something different ?

faawrenchbndr
09-28-2009, 06:10
That is "re-boxed" Winchester Supreme Elite ammo.
Looks like the box shown is the "not fancy, generic box" for LE



Winchester 180gr Supreme Elite, bonded JHP
Chosen by the FBI as their primary service round, the new Winchester? Supreme Elite Bond PDX1
handgun ammunition is now available in 9mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, 45 automatic and .38 Special.
Superior to competitive personal protection loads, the Winchester Supreme Elite Bond PDX1 utilizes a
proprietary bonding process that welds the lead core and the copper jacket as one unit to control
expansion and enhances retained weight. The bonding process allows the bullet to penetrate tough
barriers and enhance impact velocities and ranges. Six-segment jacket notching facilitates controlled,
incremental and desirable expansion at a variety of impact velocities. The copper alloy jacket is
engineered for optimal terminal effect over a wide range of velocities and ranges. Positive gun
function and smooth chambering and shell-case ejection are improved by the use of nickel-plated shell casings.

3rdgen40
09-28-2009, 06:13
That is "re-boxed" Winchester Supreme Elite ammo.
Looks like the box shown is the "not fancy, generic box" for LE



Winchester 180gr Supreme Elite, bonded JHP
Chosen by the FBI as their primary service round, the new Winchester? Supreme Elite Bond PDX1
handgun ammunition is now available in 9mm, 40 Smith & Wesson, 45 automatic and .38 Special.
Superior to competitive personal protection loads, the Winchester Supreme Elite Bond PDX1 utilizes a
proprietary bonding process that welds the lead core and the copper jacket as one unit to control
expansion and enhances retained weight. The bonding process allows the bullet to penetrate tough
barriers and enhance impact velocities and ranges. Six-segment jacket notching facilitates controlled,
incremental and desirable expansion at a variety of impact velocities. The copper alloy jacket is
engineered for optimal terminal effect over a wide range of velocities and ranges. Positive gun
function and smooth chambering and shell-case ejection are improved by the use of nickel-plated shell casings.
Thats what I was looking for.Thanks for the info.I need to go buy some more of it...:wavey:

MURRAY
09-28-2009, 06:24
Yeah that is the Ranger B I thought that was the same load as the PDX just sold in birth control boxes..........I agree the general no flash box my dads PD used to get the ammo about 50-50 some times nice box sometimes not

faawrenchbndr
09-28-2009, 08:17
...... same load as the PDX just sold in birth control boxes..........

:rofl: Outstanding!

I normally carry 165gr Gold Dots in my .40 I went half on 1k of them a while back.
The guy then decided .40 S&W was "too harsh" for him to shoot and he went back
to 9mm and .45 So, I got a sweet deal on buying his half! :rofl:

3rdgen40
09-28-2009, 12:45
:rofl: Outstanding!

I normally carry 165gr Gold Dots in my .40 I went half on 1k of them a while back.
The guy then decided .40 S&W was "too harsh" for him to shoot and he went back
to 9mm and .45 So, I got a sweet deal on buying his half! :rofl:
:rofl:.............(Ahem).....:whistling:

faawrenchbndr
09-28-2009, 13:36
Oops,.... sorry 3rdGen40,.....:embarassed:

Guess that added little to nothing for the thread.
Anyrate, the Bonded ammo is to be VERY good stuff.
I have one box of it, but in .45 for my HK USPf 45

I have not shot any of it yet, I also have Gold Dots for that as well. :dunno:

MURRAY
09-28-2009, 15:21
I would use it and it will be a good load for carry for sure

LoadedTech
09-28-2009, 15:36
Sounds like a great deal on some SD ammo you got there.

Merkavaboy
09-28-2009, 18:39
Interesting that the box has no product number on it which leads me to believe that this was probably a LE over-run that went directly into the retail market.

bubbatime
09-29-2009, 05:38
Yeah I would agree that you bought the new PDX1 rounds. Not much info out there yet on these but all reviews I have seen have been favorable plus the FBI adopted them which is good. I say you got a good buy and I would go back and get more.

MURRAY
09-29-2009, 05:42
Yeah I would agree that you bought the new PDX1 rounds. Not much info out there yet on these but all reviews I have seen have been favorable plus the FBI adopted them which is good. I say you got a good buy and I would go back and get more.

The FBI didnt adopt the PDX1 round they adopted the Ranger B load this is the same WIN doesnt want to market it as Ranger since its LEO so slap it in BC box and give it a new name

bubbatime
09-29-2009, 06:25
The FBI didnt adopt the PDX1 round they adopted the Ranger B load this is the same WIN doesnt want to market it as Ranger since its LEO so slap it in BC box and give it a new name

The FBI did not adopt the Ranger B load. The Ranger B load sucks and winchester went back to the table and came out with these new PDX1 or bonded supreme rounds.

These rounds that the OP posted about are DEFINATELY NOT the Ranger Bonded round.

Edit: I just checked winchester's website and they say that the PDX1 round is the new FBI load.
http://www.winchester.com/products/newitems/whatsnewcontent.aspx?productid=70

cadillacguns
09-29-2009, 10:32
:wow:THIRDGENFOURTY, where did you find it in the 50 count box, around here its found at Wal-Mart in a black box 20 rds, $20........:crying:
Buy a couple more boxes and then please let the rest of us know !:whistling:

3rdgen40
09-29-2009, 11:52
:wow:THIRDGENFOURTY, where did you find it in the 50 count box, around here its found at Wal-Mart in a black box 20 rds, $20........:crying:
Buy a couple more boxes and then please let the rest of us know !:whistling:
Local gun shop.He had about 10 more boxes on the shelf.Hope its still there on payday...:supergrin: BTW, our local Walmart doesn't even carry it.Wish I could find some in 9mm too.

cadillacguns
09-30-2009, 07:13
Consider yourself very lucky my friend and squirrel away a few more boxes.

3rdgen40
10-05-2009, 09:13
Went back to the shop the other day.They had 1 box left.So, I grabbed that and the shop owner told me he has 1 more case on the way.I told him to save 4 boxes for me.That will give me 300 rounds total.He also confirmed it was a LE over run and it is the Win. Supreme Elite Bonded...:cool:

cadillacguns
10-06-2009, 06:43
Again what a lucky guy you are, I can't even find a twenty round box here in Indianapolis.

3rdgen40
10-21-2009, 02:02
Again what a lucky guy you are, I can't even find a twenty round box here in Indianapolis.
I got more today.Were you able to get some from the online source ?

cadillacguns
10-21-2009, 03:55
No, third gen was shopping with the wife (Meijers) and it was going to be my birthday the next day, and she asked what I wanted ? We sauntered over to the ammo isle and I said hey how about a box of that Win PDX-1?
She bought and I got it home to replace the 9 Black Talon .40's in my EDC G-27, and 11 rds of the same in the +2 back up mag. Although It was 165 gr and I prefer 180's (Wal-Mart is cheaper by $5 a box and carries 180 gr, but is and has been sold out a long time), so this 20 rds my wife bought will have to do. However, looking at the rounds visualy I wasn't too impressed, my Fed HST round in comparison just look better, anyway if I had the shop you go to with a supply, i would be getting 2 boxes a pay day.
You are one lucky dog.

Unfortunatly for me at $25 a box of only 20, my only practice will (hopefuly not) be in a bad situation.

Let us know how it shoots out of whatever your shooting it in.

glow plugs
10-21-2009, 12:13
interesting that the box has no product number on it which leads me to believe that this was probably a le over-run that went directly into the retail market.

q4369?

3rdgen40
10-21-2009, 12:20
q4369?
Yup...thats it.It was a LE over run.

3rdgen40
11-03-2009, 12:17
Finally shot some of this ammo today.WOW ! These are very hot loads.Also very accurate in both my 23 and 27...:cool:

Out West
11-04-2009, 22:52
Ammoman has it in 500 round case lots for $249 + free shipping. I just picked up a case. Better hurry.

Out West

warmouth
11-05-2009, 21:45
One of the local shops here in Omaha has this round on the shelf for the same price of $24.99. I saw it a few weeks ago, opened up a box in the store and recognized the bullet right away. I saw it as the 180 gr. bonded Ranger bullet. The same shop has Winchester's Supreme Elite PDX1 bonded 180s for $21.99 per box of twenty. I knew the Q4369 in the white boxes of 50 rnds was a good deal, so I bought 10 boxes and felt well stocked for my carry/self defense needs. Incidently, I had a few boxes of the 180 gr. PDX1 at home and compared the rounds. I don't think they are exactly the same as the hollow point opening on all of the white box stuff was slightly larger than those in the PDX1 rounds. Who knows?

The reason why I'm posting in this thread is because one thing is bothering me. The code on back of the boxes is Q4369. On the store receipt, the boxes showed as ZQ4369. Why does this bother me? Because I saw this little blurb in a Gunbroker listing, "The Z in the ZRA9B signals that this ammo did not make Law Enforcement grade. We were told that 1 out of every 1000 rounds is not perfect, so it was sold as ZRA9B, instead of regular RA9B. This ammo is still great stuff, but Ranger LE ammo has to be 100% perfect to make law enforcement grade." Sorry, but this puts a little grain of doubt in my head. I want my carry load to be perfect. I know there is no such thing as 100% reliability, but that has been my reality with all factory ammo from the big manufacturers. I know I've been lucky over the years, and sooner or later there'll be a squib or some other failure. Now, I just feel like a failure is more likely with this round. I guess I'll keep the tap-rack-bang drill fresh.

bubbatime
11-06-2009, 01:40
I saw it a few weeks ago, opened up a box in the store and recognized the bullet right away. I saw it as the 180 gr. bonded Ranger bullet.

These new "unknown white box rounds" are a far cry (way different) than the 180 grain Ranger Bonded round.


On the store receipt, the boxes showed as ZQ4369. Why does this bother me? Because I saw this little blurb in a Gunbroker listing, "The Z in the ZRA9B signals that this ammo did not make Law Enforcement grade. We were told that 1 out of every 1000 rounds is not perfect, so it was sold as ZRA9B, instead of regular RA9B. This ammo is still great stuff, but Ranger LE ammo has to be 100% perfect to make law enforcement grade." Sorry, but this puts a little grain of doubt in my head. I want my carry load to be perfect.

There is a very good chance that these did not make LEO grade for one reason or another. But I bet that this ammo would have the same failure rate as regular white box ammo or better. I wouldn't worry about it.

warmouth
11-06-2009, 19:32
bubbatime,

When I said white box, I didnít mean the typical Winchester white box (WWB) value pack stuff that we buy at Wal-mart and use for range fodder. I meant a generic box as shown.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/warmouth/Win180BJHP.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/warmouth/Q4369.jpg

Also, I did recognize this round as having a Winchester Ranger T style bullet (couldnít visually tell it was bonded of course). I recognized them because Iíve had a few boxes of the premium law enforcement stuff (with the pretty tan packaging) in the past. Itís harder to come by and I paid a bit more for it. In the following pics are, from left to right, a typical value line Winchester JHP, the Winchester PDX1 BJHP, and the Winchester Q4369 Bonded JHP. To me it looks like the Bonded Ranger, what do you think?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/warmouth/sidebyside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/warmouth/topdown.jpg

bubbatime
11-06-2009, 21:30
Nope, I am aware that you were not referring to the typical Winchester White Box rounds. These new rounds are DEFINATELY not Winchester Ranger Bonded. Ranger Bonded does not have petals visable and is a very generic looking round.

I own Ranger T, Ranger Bonded, and have shot throught a box of PDX1 and I can absolutely, positivily say that the Q4369 are of the PDX1 family. They may be slightly different (for whatever reason) than your PDX1 rounds, but they are the same family.

This is the only picture of Ranger Bonded that I could find on the net:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/ranger%20bonded/twhitson87/DSC03975.jpg

The Ranger Bonded was a poor attempt at a bonded round. That is why they came out with the new (much better) PDX1 round.

warmouth
11-06-2009, 21:43
I'm sure you're right. I've never owned the Ranger bonded, I guess I was making the incorrect assumption that they looked like the other Ranger ammo I've had. It's definitely a dead ringer for the PDX1 as you say. After looking at my own pics, I'm starting to think the difference in size of the hollowpoint openings is some sort of illusion. They look pretty much the same in the pics. In any case, I've got enough to play with for a while. Thanks

hotpig
11-07-2009, 09:56
As a Ranger dealer I can say with 100% surety that the PDX1 is the same as the current Ranger Bonded.

bubbatime
11-07-2009, 09:59
As a Ranger dealer I can say with 100% surety that the PDX1 is the same as the current Ranger Bonded.

That is good to know that they are doing away with the older Ranger Bonded. Do you have pics?

hotpig
11-07-2009, 10:24
I do not keep photo other than the ones I use in my store. I will give some history of it.

Ranger Bonded came out in 2004 and replaced the Ranger Partition Gold. Since then the bullet has been changed three times. The first looked like any other generic hp except the hp was very shallow. The second had a noticeably deeper hp but still looked very generic. The third generation looks like the T-Series.

A friend of mine who is now retired from Winchester worked in R&D. He told me eight or ten years ago that they had been playing around with bonding the T-Series ammo.

The talons did not act the same with the bonded verses the T ammo. The sales reps example bullets that I have seen show the difference.

The talons on the Bonded/PDX had expanded out at some point but had folded way back compared to the T-Series. Some of the slugs you could easily see the talons, others you could not.

MURRAY
11-07-2009, 13:45
The FBI did not adopt the Ranger B load. The Ranger B load sucks and winchester went back to the table and came out with these new PDX1 or bonded supreme rounds.

These rounds that the OP posted about are DEFINATELY NOT the Ranger Bonded round.

Edit: I just checked winchester's website and they say that the PDX1 round is the new FBI load.
http://www.winchester.com/products/newitems/whatsnewcontent.aspx?productid=70


Hot Pig thanks for the info mike :wavey::wow::wow:

JMiller
01-24-2010, 14:26
I got these on a trade for equal number Waldos World cheap Winchester White Box .45 FMJs. There are 400 total 200 of them are the 165 GN FMJ and 300 are the 180 GN Bonded. I was searching for more info on them when I found this thread. I noticed that the talk here was on the Q# that doesn't match mine. What are these and are they the good one? The 180s are Q4355 and the 165s are Q4329A. I think I made a great trade after seeing this thread. I decided to dump all of my WWB stuff. http://www.glockpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7313


http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/millhouse75/wranger.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd80/millhouse75/wranger2.jpg

JMiller
01-25-2010, 07:45
What's the deal here? Two pages of talk on this before I find this site now I have a question only to hear crickets chirping. I was honestly looking for a knowledgeable response.

Steel Head
01-25-2010, 16:47
I actually really like the 4369 stuff-MURDER ON Coyote's:whistling:
Recovered one bullet-nose to tail shot and into a dirt bank on a BIG BUCK PRAIRIE PUPPY-great expansion
MY source dried up need to find more

Ma_Ma_Monkey
05-04-2010, 18:38
Has anyone used a chrono with the lot q4369? I have purchased this as well and was wondering how it compared to the pdx1 velocity of 1025 fps at muzzle to see if there is a difference there.

I hope someone can do a test!

mikeyU
05-04-2010, 20:45
Tagged thank you!

3rdgen40
05-05-2010, 05:37
MY source dried up need to find more
http://www.ammoman.com/images5/40WIN-JHP180-1.jpg
www.ammoman.com (http://www.ammoman.com) is selling it by the case for $219/500...:wow:

cadillacguns
05-06-2010, 06:08
for $219/500 its the brass cased as seen in the above pics.

mooseman
05-06-2010, 06:38
for $219/500 its the brass cased as seen in the above pics.

$249 is still decent for 500. Especially when the PDX1 sells for $20-30 a box of 20.

167
05-06-2010, 18:39
Jmiller, Q4355 is suppose to be decent stuff.

The fmj stuff, as long as it shoots will work, so no worries.

The ZQ4369 is still a bit of mystery.

Ma_Ma_Monkey
05-06-2010, 23:51
Without going off topic on price can anyone with q4369 and chrono test muzzle velocity? I'd likento compare to factory pdx1.

Quentin
07-12-2011, 17:58
My local Cabela's had this Q4369 on sale today for $19.99 - 50 round white box. Looks real good.

Cycletroll
07-12-2011, 18:20
I bought a bit of this load and tested it in wet newsprint out of a gen4 G23.
5500ft, 60 deg, newspaper saturated for 24hrs and drained.
Chrono'd 983 Avg for 5 shots from 4" barrel Penetrated between 8" and 9" and expanded reliably to .62x.80.

For comparison the 180gr HST went 6.25" and .60x.80. (961fps)
I actually like the Winchester bonded better. It's a tougher bullet and penetrates quite a bit deeper. Would be a great 10mm bullet.

OctoberRust
07-12-2011, 19:20
This isn't WWB JHP?..... That's what it sounds like to me. I could have misread somewhere in this topic though.

At any rate, if you can shoot it good, then carry it and have no worries.

wacopolumbo
08-17-2011, 17:03
I have found this locally in brass (not nickel) for between $21.50 to $29.99 per box of 50. I was tempted to buy some until I found it at SGAmmo.com for $159.00 for a case of 500! That's $15.90 per 50! Shipping was only $14, not bad. Once I get it in I am going to shoot some and may order another 500. I am excited to get it, UPS.com says it will be here Friday. $15.90 per box is cheap for target ammo, let alone quality SD ammo.

wacopolumbo
08-19-2011, 14:02
I got my 500 rounds in today and decided to call Winchester to get the real story on the ammunition. I was told the Q4369 is indeed FBI contract over-run ammunition. The bullet is the same as the PDX1 round. My ammunition came brass cased and not nickeled. I asked about the difference and was told the original FBI contract called for nickel cases and water-proofing. However, the nickel case was too slippery and the water sealant would slide down the inside of the case wall and not seal the bullet in. So there was a contract modification by the FBI to switch to brass which would let the sealant stick to the inside of the case and seal the bullet.

He went on to state the PDX1 round is not waterproof and put in nickeled cases for appearances. Also, once all of the Q4369 is gone, there will be no more since it is overrun and NOT rejected ammunition.

I hope to get another case after my next payday. You can't beat $16 per box of 50!

cadillacguns
08-20-2011, 04:28
And thats to feed all those mags you got out of the classifieds For sale section Waco you lucky dog, now an Officer I work with just told me he sees the same boxes of ammo for $13 a box of 50 ea at a local shop I dont visit cause I live on the other side of town, and he is headed there during his lunch break............I handed him a $50 and a picture of the box and ammo and said get me four (4) boxes ONLY if its Q4639 as I have only found it before wacopolumbo guided me to SG Ammo at $24 a box of 50 ea. (I cry B.S. on my buddies claim to the $13 a box Federal in a shop 5 miles away, but..............stranger things have happened) Stay tuned I'll let y'all know if I strike Gold!

wacopolumbo
08-20-2011, 04:55
Cadillac, let us know. $13 a box is an amazing price!

cadillacguns
08-20-2011, 14:34
False Alarm Waco, I knew it would be too good to be true, The Officer went to the local gunshop (FT. Liberty in Avon In), and it was $21.99 a box, and the owner gave him a LEO discount and he picked me up two boxes..........so, the SGAmmo deal is the best around. Say $17 a box to my place. Waco all those mags you got and all that ammo, your having a lucky week.

Enjoy shooting it.

wacopolumbo
08-20-2011, 16:09
Still not a bad price. I think I am gonna buy some locally every now and then. I want to stock up on this great ammo.

wacopolumbo
08-20-2011, 20:39
Okay, I asked my wife to grab ONE box of this while she was out today. Um, she brought home 17 boxes of it! I so married way up!

wacopolumbo
08-20-2011, 21:20
Delete.

gatorboy
08-27-2011, 02:04
Okay, I asked my wife to grab ONE box of this while she was out today. Um, she brought home 17 boxes of it! I so married way up!

That's great to hear! My lady not only helps me reload, she picks up all of the brass while I shoot. Fills up all the water jugs too. Hmm, maybe I need to let her loose with the CC to get some new clothes? Good shooting to you.

wacopolumbo
08-29-2011, 06:34
That's great to hear! My lady not only helps me reload, she picks up all of the brass while I shoot. Fills up all the water jugs too. Hmm, maybe I need to let her loose with the CC to get some new clothes? Good shooting to you.


I know what you mean. Having the Mrs involved makes it a lot more fun. Plus you don't have to worry about getting yelled at for wanting to shoot. As for the Q4369, I love this stuff and plan to get as much as possible while it is still available...

glockman9mm
08-30-2011, 22:03
I do not keep photo other than the ones I use in my store. I will give some history of it.

Ranger Bonded came out in 2004 and replaced the Ranger Partition Gold. Since then the bullet has been changed three times. The first looked like any other generic hp except the hp was very shallow. The second had a noticeably deeper hp but still looked very generic. The third generation looks like the T-Series.

A friend of mine who is now retired from Winchester worked in R&D. He told me eight or ten years ago that they had been playing around with bonding the T-Series ammo.

The talons did not act the same with the bonded verses the T ammo. The sales reps example bullets that I have seen show the difference.

The talons on the Bonded/PDX had expanded out at some point but had folded way back compared to the T-Series. Some of the slugs you could easily see the talons, others you could not.

So, i have some of the 9mm 124gr. +P bonded rounds with the shallow hollow point that i have been carrying in my G26. Do these rounds not expand as well that they have changed them or what?

Perhaps i should swap them out for Gold Dots.

cadillacguns
08-31-2011, 03:22
I carry Speer 124 +p whenever I do rarely carry my G-19 or G-26, but your ammo is about as good, why swap?

glockman9mm
08-31-2011, 07:53
I carry Speer 124 +p whenever I do rarely carry my G-19 or G-26, but your ammo is about as good, why swap?

I dunno- I have read many times on this forum people saying the winchester ranger bonded ammo sucks- but i have no proof of this. Both rounds shoot well through my guns so either works for me.

hotpig
08-31-2011, 09:23
I carry Speer 124 +p whenever I do rarely carry my G-19 or G-26, but your ammo is about as good, why swap?Right, I would not be in any hurry to switch out the ammo.

hotpig
08-31-2011, 09:25
I dunno- I have read many times on this forum people saying the winchester ranger bonded ammo sucks- but i have no proof of this. Neither does the people that print this stuff.

Tiro Fijo
08-31-2011, 16:07
Neither does the people that print this stuff.


:rofl: So true.


The only thing HST really has over the Ranger is better performance through windshield glass which is really not a factor for a non-LEO. Sure, someone will come along and say they MIGHT need better glass penetration when they have to wheel out of Dodge while hosing down hordes of Zombies. :upeyes: :supergrin:

If a person wanted THE best in penetration with handgun ammo they would carry DPX anyway. The only 9mm HP I've seen go through BOTH doors on an auto.

glockman9mm
08-31-2011, 16:51
:rofl: So true.


The only thing HST really has over the Ranger is better performance through windshield glass which is really not a factor for a non-LEO. Sure, someone will come along and say they MIGHT need better glass penetration when they have to wheel out of Dodge while hosing down hordes of Zombies. :upeyes: :supergrin:

If a person wanted THE best in penetration with handgun ammo they would carry DPX anyway. The only 9mm HP I've seen go through BOTH doors on an auto.

Actually, i was more worried about the expansion characteristics than the penetration. The ammo i have appears to be the earlier design with the shallow hollow point and almost unnoticable pedals. But perhaps this is better for less chance of the cavity clogging? Who knows?

The only thing i have to go by- and it aint much- is that i shot the ranger T-series and the Gold Dot last winter and found the bullets when the snow melted in my pasture. The 9mm gold dots expanded half way just from the snow! The ranger t .45's were untouched almost. Didn't shoot any of the bonded rangers last winter.:dunno:

Tiro Fijo
08-31-2011, 17:07
I really wouldn't take seriously any pseudo testing such as shooting phone books, water jugs, etc. The difference between the best HP's is minimal at most for most scenarios.

You can't go wrong with Rangers or Gold Dots.

glockman9mm
08-31-2011, 17:14
I really wouldn't take seriously any pseudo testing such as shooting phone books, water jugs, etc. The difference between the best HP's is minimal at most for most scenarios.

You can't go wrong with Rangers or Gold Dots.

I guess i am just wondering why they changed the design of the bonded version- if they really have. I bought these last fall from sgammo.com- perhaps they were old surplus??

I guess just cuz they changed it- don't mean the new design is any better. In any case- it functions well in my gun and is plenty accurate and feels plenty powerfull- very similar to the gold dot.

hotpig
08-31-2011, 18:39
I guess i am just wondering why they changed the design of the bonded version- if they really have. I bought these last fall from sgammo.com- perhaps they were old surplus??

I guess just cuz they changed it- don't mean the new design is any better. In any case- it functions well in my gun and is plenty accurate and feels plenty powerfull- very similar to the gold dot.Pretty simple, Winchester wanted the DOJ contract and Gold Dot had it plus they were a lower bid.

Winchester had to make a bullet that when the points were added up after the FBI tests it would win.

Ranger Bonded 9mm still uses the old bullet design. The other calibers of Ranger Bonded have switched over to the PDX1 bullet.

glockman9mm
09-01-2011, 12:46
Pretty simple, Winchester wanted the DOJ contract and Gold Dot had it plus they were a lower bid.

Winchester had to make a bullet that when the points were added up after the FBI tests it would win.

Ranger Bonded 9mm still uses the old bullet design. The other calibers of Ranger Bonded have switched over to the PDX1 bullet.


So what, if anything, is better about the PDX1???

hotpig
09-01-2011, 15:25
I sell Ranger, Golden Saber Bonded, Gold Dot and Federal Tactical ammo. There is not enough of a difference between them to get concerned about. Ford, Dodge, Chevy it just comes down to personal preference.

Michael W.
09-10-2011, 19:43
Back to the question asked earlier about the Q4369 Winchester Bonded JHP in
the generic white box. Has anyone chrono'd these?

I shot some of this today as well as from 180gr HST (thanks to Hotpig for the HST!).
The 180gr Q4369 definitely felt like a lighter load than the 180gr HST.
I realize that HST across the board tends to be a tad on the hot side but
I was just wondering if anyone has ever checked empirically how close
the Q4369 really is loaded to the PDX-1.

Thanks in advance.

Michael-

Cycletroll
09-11-2011, 04:07
Out of my G22 the 180 HST does 1010 average and the Q4369 does 985.
HST expands more, the Winny load penetrates deeper.
HST almost .80 and into third jug (denim covered); Winchester into 4th jug @ .70 cal.

Michael W.
09-11-2011, 05:57
Out of my G22 the 180 HST does 1010 average and the Q4369 does 985.
HST expands more, the Winny load penetrates deeper.
HST almost .80 and into third jug (denim covered); Winchester into 4th jug @ .70 cal.

Thanks very much Cyceltroll,

That pretty much jives with how they shoot relative to each other.

I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of 180gr HST's as my primary
carry in my Glocks with back up mags of Q4369.

The Q4369 is at such a ridiculously low price at SGammo.com right now
that I had to grab another case of it.

M-

Cycletroll
09-11-2011, 07:34
No prob. My pleasure.

The HST sure does make pretty shapes when it expands but I'm beginning to believe that there is no such thing is as too much penetration but there surely is such a thing as too little.
IMHO the main advantage to the HST is that the HP cavity is so freakin huge that it is almost certain not to plug and will therefore expand well.
I too feel totally comfortable carrying either load. Fortunately I have plenty of both :)

cadillacguns
09-15-2011, 03:08
Thanks from me too Cycletroll, I have 180 PDX-1 in my G-23/27, and 180 HST currently in my G-22, yet I really like the 180 GDHP, and while its my choice of best all around, I feel well protected carrying the others. Go figure. I am ready soon for another case (500 rds) of the Winchester though.

3rdgen40
09-15-2011, 04:06
This makes me wish I still had a .40...:crying:

JasonSD
03-26-2012, 14:15
I bought 8 boxes of the Q4369 ammo at a gun show a couple of weekends ago for $12 a box. Only shot about 50 rounds so far but seems pretty good. I'm going to try and pick up some more at the next gun show next month.

cadillacguns
03-27-2012, 05:22
I wish I knew the differences beyond the obvious (cost/name/casing type) when comparing PDX-1, Q4369 (Generic), and Q4355 (Ranger Bonded), and SXT (same exact thing). I carry 180 gr PDX-1. I have a supply of the others. Go Tohttp://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/40-cal for photos and pricing. Life is good.

gatorbait69
03-29-2012, 10:58
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500-rds-40-cal-180-grain-bonded-hollow-point-winchester-q4369-ammo


what about this stuff??

is it any good?

I was looking at this ammo yesterday and it was $149.00 and the picture showed the yellow winchester boxes.

Broken Man
03-30-2012, 22:24
http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/500-rds-40-cal-180-grain-bonded-hollow-point-winchester-q4369-ammo


what about this stuff??

is it any good?

I was looking at this ammo yesterday and it was $149.00 and the picture showed the yellow winchester boxes.

I think what you saw was the Q4355, they did not have much and it did not last long, not because its so good but because it was so cheap in price I think.

Boot Stomper
06-23-2012, 07:30
I buy the Winchester 180 GR Bonded direct from Olin, the manufacture. The walk in off the street cost is $14.00 per 50 rounds. They do not ship. I buy it from their public range in East Alton, IL. It is a deal that is HARD to beat.