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sawgrass
09-29-2009, 10:39
I've attatched some pics of a project I finished this am.
This is a Winchester 94, in 32 Winchester Special.
This is a popular deer rifle.

The one time in my life that I went hunting, it was for squirrels.
I was all lined up, and when it was time to pull the trigger,
I couldn't do it. (this has NOTHING to do with self defense)

I'm able to fish, just fine. I do stop when I have a meal.
I don't know why fishing is tolerable, even enjoyable
but I'm all hung up when it comes to hunting. Killing is killing.
I don't know any women who hunt.

When I bought this rifle, it was with the notion of deer hunting.
The gun is finished and ready now, and I'm not.
I like venison just fine. I eat meat, and it feels a little
hypocritical that I will eat it if someone else kills it.

Any ideas on this?

Sawgrass

cmecha
09-29-2009, 11:40
thats a pretty gun all i can say is that reaction is a response that society has placed on you IE: Bambi.

NH Trucker
09-29-2009, 15:03
What do you fish for? If you ever go after bass, try getting a live frog to use for bait. It's just a little different than a fish, and it could get you used to killing something else.

Don't give up on pulling the trigger on squirrels though. Eventually you may be able to gather up the will to take that critter down! Then you can move onto bigger game animals.

Mrs.Cicero
09-29-2009, 16:16
I was a vegetarian for ten years before i took up hunting - and i passed up a lot of shots that Mr.C would have taken because i wanted Bambi to drop dead on the spot. Eventually I realized I would never get a deer if I didn't take a shot. Just keep going out til you get hungry enough... (and if you aren't buying any meat in the store, this may happen fairly quickly!)

Mrs.Cicero, who wants to to get Bambi with her bow, now.

charleym3
09-29-2009, 17:40
It's something that touches me deeply too. I've killed two deer and cried over both of them. I enjoy the meat, but the realization of responsibility is ... heavy.
We raise rabbits for food. I get misty over harvesting them too. My wife doesn't so I leave that part to her. We do the processing together. The dogs, cats and chickens clean up. Closed loop.
We have deer frequenting our garden. Season is coming up. Freezer is empty.

sawgrass
09-29-2009, 18:47
I was a vegetarian for ten years before i took up hunting - and i passed up a lot of shots that Mr.C would have taken because i wanted Bambi to drop dead on the spot. Eventually I realized I would never get a deer if I didn't take a shot. Just keep going out til you get hungry enough... (and if you aren't buying any meat in the store, this may happen fairly quickly!)

Mrs. C.

I really worry about not killing it and wounding it. I worry that it will
run, and I won't be able to find it. If I were hungry and "needed"
the meat it might be easier. Another consideration is that I would
likely be hunting on state land. I've been watching guys site their guns
at the range. I have to do my 16 hrs. of duty soon and I dread it.
There are a lot of men out there who can't hit the burm, never mind
the target.

A young man told me earlier today, that if you hit them and they don't drop, they actually cry. Is that true?

At any rate, I'm happy with the gun, and I bought a knife.

Good Luck with your bow!:cool:

sawgrass
09-29-2009, 18:53
thats a pretty gun

Thank you. It was missing its site hood, and the varnish was terrible.

I stripped it, and refinished that beautiful walnut with Linseed oil (several coats) and a final coat of tung oil. To have been made in 1951, it is in excellent shape.

The old fellow I bought it from, said he killed many a deer with it.

wrencher
09-29-2009, 21:57
Beautiful rifle. I have a Marlin 336, and while it is robust and functional, the Winchester has it all going on for looks.
I love to shoot, but also don't hunt. Be interested in other replies to this thread.

PATRICE
09-30-2009, 06:01
.....<smile>
</smile>

Jim S.
09-30-2009, 18:41
Could I ask a question? If you carry a gun for self defense will you feel any different when a man is in your sites? Will you hesitate?
Killing a person is much more painful than killing an animal, even the cute ones like Bambi.
You really need to think about this if you carry a gun for personal defense.
A lot of people say that if it is justified than I won't feel bad or care if I shoot and kill someone.
I thought that at one time too.

Jim S.
09-30-2009, 19:12
I know you said that it had NOTHING to do with self defense, but I still think that it is something to think about.

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 06:14
Jim S.

If someone is threatening me or my loved ones, the decision is made.

If my table were empty, I could hunt for food.

My personal struggle in this whole issue, is "what right do I have to take
life from any living thing, without need.

Then the fact that I am able to fish, and will eat meat raised for slaughter
puzzles me.

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 06:21
I thought that at one time too.

While, I appreciate staying on topic, would you care
to expand on this? I've seen that your were a marine,
that makes me think you could have been in situations
with hard decisions, or career responsibilities..



It reads (to me) like you wouldn't protect yourself now.

Sr. Bang Bang
10-01-2009, 09:49
I'm the same way. I was shooting a target with my bb gun when I was a kid and there was a bird that landed on the branch right above where I was shooting and I killed it. Ever since I just don't like to go hunting. I'll shoot groundhogs all day because they are destructive and need to be dealt with. I have no problem with other people hunting and it really helps keep the deer population in check. So know that you are not alone. I love shooting, just don't like going hunting.

Mrs.Cicero
10-01-2009, 10:56
Jim S.
If someone is threatening me or my loved ones, the decision is made.
If my table were empty, I could hunt for food.
My personal struggle in this whole issue, is "what right do I have to take
life from any living thing, without need.
Then the fact that I am able to fish, and will eat meat raised for slaughter
puzzles me.

Sawgrass,
I got over the whole "what right do i have argument" with the logic that
a) what makes me think that the deer has more right to live than carrot in my salad?" The idea that the deer has more right to live is a totally human value judgment. If I'm going to anthropomorphize the deer's concept of life and rights, then I'd have to do it for the carrot, too. NOTHING wants to die, but everything does eventually.
b) If I kill it, clean it, butcher it and cook it myself, then I know exactly how much or little went to waste - I take way too long (according to Mr.C) to butcher a deer - because I get every last bit of meat off that beast, down to the stew meat and bits ground for sausage. The hide gets tanned (tho' it may sit in the freezer a couple years til i have enough to justify the hassle). The tendons are saved for Mr. C's bowstrings. I would save the vertebrae for stock but I'm concerned about CWD here in MI, so that does get tossed. c) why should I have any LESS right to eat&live than any other living thing on this planet? Also, we're on a budget here, and venison is way cheaper and better for us than store-bought beef (at least, it is AFTER you already own everything you need to hunt, and if you process it yourself (saves $75 right there)... that savings lets me buy organic free-range roasting chickens from a local homeschool student... supporting his business, which is important to me...and because if you knew how factory chickens live, die and are processed, you'd never eat one again.

I guess I'm just saying that you need to eat to live just as much as any other living thing, and have just as much "right" , or not, as all those other beings. Even plants live on death - the dirt they grow in and the nutrients they get from it were once living beings, even if they are green plants and not 'shrooms. Nothing lives without the death of something else.

As for deer crying, I've never seen or heard of that.

And you didn't ask me, but I think what Jim S was saying about people thinking they could kill another person and not feel bad because it was justifiable meant that while he could kill someone in self-defense, he would still feel bad about. I know I would - I will protect myself and my family, but if it results in the death of ANYONE, I will be a mess, if for no other reason than the scum of the earth has likely gone straight to Hell and now has no further chance for redemption... because of my action. That's a heavy weight to me... but it is NOT as heavy as the alternative - I DON'T ever want to face God and have to explain why I didn't fight to keep the life or children or family he gave me.

Mrs.Cicero

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 13:21
I understand he used to drop my spouse's home.

Did it splinter into toothpicks? :rofl:
(sorry Patrice, I couldn't resist)


Mrs.Cicero,

Thank you for an excellent post. You've given me food for thought.
I would love to hear about tanning a hide. If eventually, I do kill
a deer I would like to make a drum from the hide.

Sawgrass

Jim S.
10-01-2009, 13:23
It reads (to me) like you wouldn't protect yourself now.

No, I would definately defend myself, then and now and in the future.
My combat experience was fairly easy to live with. In a war it is easy to justify them or me, which is mostly true.
I have read many times where people say I would kill someone if I had to, no problem. To say that tells me that you have been fortunate in not having to kill someone, at least that is what it sounds like to me.
I have had the experience of watching someone die because I shot them first, and even though they surely deserved to get shot it was not an easy thing to see.
No one who carries a gun for self defense should ever think that it is no big deal even when it is justified. If killing a squirrel or a deer would upset you then killing another human being will also and more even when it is justified.
I think that this requires some thought on the part of those who carry a gun because the slightest hesitation or weakness will usually end a gun fight in a way that doesn't go well for you.
As important as proper practice is to shooting, the mental preparedness is even more so for self defense shooting.
And one more thing: sawgrass, yes deer do cry. Tears and whinning like a baby. My first deer was still alive when I found it and it cryed. I was just a kid and it broke my heart. My grandfather made me put it out of it's misery, and that was pretty tough too. I learned real quick to make sure that first shot was where it was supposed to be.

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 16:22
Jim,

You're right in that I hope I'm not ever in that situation.
If I am, I KNOW what I will do. Would it be life changing?
Of course.

I'm sorry you had to make that decision.

In that regard if a bear was after me, I'm going to shoot it.

Threat is different from Need.

Sawgrass

Jim S.
10-01-2009, 17:42
Threat is different from Need.Sawgrass

Yes it is. As far as hunting is concerned I've never wanted to hang a trophy on the wall, only fill the freezer. I think it is a good thing as long as it feeds you and the family.
As far as self defense I have never started a fight and if all possible avoided them, unfortunately there are those who leave you no choice.
In those instances it is better to do what you have to do to survive. I just wanted to make people think about it before it happens so as to be prepared for what is a very unpleasant situation.
If you "see" things in your mind it may help to not have to think about it when you should be acting. Some people hesitate because they really do not want to take a life. Cover the scenarios in your mind and when the time comes act in a way that almost seems familiar to you because you have already thought it through.
Does that make sense?

PATRICE
10-01-2009, 18:09
.....

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 19:22
Jim your post makes sense, and again you are right
in that taking a human life is a position that most
of us don't want to be in, and hopefully won't be in.

However, I'm talking about hunting.
It's not the same.

Thanks for your input, you seem like a real decent guy.

sawgrass
10-01-2009, 19:24
Patrice, just teasing.

I don't know anything about Ted Nugent though.
I'm more of a Mike Cross kind of girl.


Sawgrass