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dad2thebone
10-17-2009, 14:08
I wanted to get some opinions on the AR I purchased a year ago. Rock River Arms A4 with 18'' bull barrell. It seemed at the time that RRA might be slightly better quality than a Bushy or other "entry level" AR's. Then I saw a review of several AR's in some combat gun magazine, and RRA was pretty far down the list. The trigger seems to be a bit nicer than others. Bought gun for varmints and plinking.

Paid $900, so felt like the price was right, anyway.

Any feedback on RRA quality and performance would be appreciated.
(Ever see any of the RRA 1911's? They seem to be VERY nice at $1,500-$2,500).

MARSH1
10-17-2009, 14:14
I wanted to get some opinions on the AR I purchased a year ago. Rock River Arms A4 with 18'' bull barrell. It seemed at the time that RRA might be slightly better quality than a Bushy or other "entry level" AR's. Then I saw a review of several AR's in some combat gun magazine, and RRA was pretty far down the list. The trigger seems to be a bit nicer than others. Bought gun for varmints and plinking.

Paid $900, so felt like the price was right, anyway.

Any feedback on RRA quality and performance would be appreciated.
(Ever see any of the RRA 1911's? They seem to be VERY nice at $1,500-$2,500).

They make a great Varmint AR. Gun rags tend to rate based on advertising.

pmwglock19
10-17-2009, 14:16
I bought an a2 national match rra at camp perry in august. It came with a nm barrrel, 2 stage trigger and nm sight. My son bought an rra carbine upper. We shot his at a 3 gun match and it shot well. Neither of us had any complaints with the rifle.

I have not had a chance to site the gun in yet. I paid $900 for my rifle also. The barrel is a little heavy but otherwise IMHO well built.

mangkukhan
10-17-2009, 16:56
I only buy Stag and RRA, both are outstanding. Keep in mind if RRA was crap then the DEA, Secret Service, Homeland Security and other federal agencies wouldn't issue them.

volsbear
10-17-2009, 16:58
I absolutely love my RRA Pro-Series Government (the civilian version of the DEA contract rifle). Last time at the range, my buddy with the expensive Colt ran most of his mags through my RRA.

G23c
10-17-2009, 18:29
my Tactical Entry is rock solid.

dad2thebone
10-17-2009, 18:46
Thanks for the replies, I've been really happy with mine so far. So do you think the RRA is any better than a DPMS, Bushy, etc?

HogGlocker
10-17-2009, 19:08
I have one RRA....bought back in 00 or 01....M4 style flat top.

Have shot the hell out of it and it has been totally reliable...heavy contour R4 barrel....very accurate.

IT shoots as well as my Colt, BM and two M&P15.

Shes a keeper.

HAIL CAESAR
10-17-2009, 20:09
They make a great Varmint AR. Gun rags tend to rate based on advertising.
RRA is a great varminter. Since that is what the OP bought and is his intended usage then you is absolutely well equipped. Yes gun rags give glowing reviews to big ad clients. Ever read a bad article about a Taurus gun? Nope and they are absolute trash in most models.

Keep in mind if RRA was crap then the DEA, Secret Service, Homeland Security and other federal agencies wouldn't issue them.
Secret Service? Last time I knew they had Colts. And most rifles issues to the Federale's will just be taken out to qualify once or twice a year, if they even ever get a round shot through them and just sit unfired for years. Hardly a hallmark of quality based on hard usage.

And just because a big LEA uses them, doesn't make then good. Heck Illinois State Police issues ArmaLite.:whistling:

To the OP. You bought a RRA varmint model to shoot varmints. At that they are very good, especially for the price point they are in. As to Duty type firearms....well, RRA should stick to varmint models. :whistling:

I will admit that RRA is trying to clean up their issues. But slowly.

Kentak
10-18-2009, 01:24
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that virtually all of the mainstream makers rifles are going to be decent quality rifles.

It's my understanding that they get parts from many of the same suppliers who specialize in the making of those parts. Parts like barrels, upper and lower receivers, triggers, stocks, etc. Can anyone say for certain what parts Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag, DPMS, etc., make in house? It seems the main differences you are going to see is in things like finish, choice of furniture, sights, accessories, and that sort of thing. Care in assembly and quality control are obvious issues. If you get a weapon with a bad finish or out of spec assembly, return it and demand it be made right. All makers are going to have their occasional slips, but will correct them if they care about their rep, and most do. Internet being what it is, the makers of junk won't be able to hide for long.

HAIL CAESAR
10-18-2009, 01:57
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that virtually all of the mainstream makers rifles are going to be decent quality rifles.

It's my understanding that they get parts from many of the same suppliers who specialize in the making of those parts. Parts like barrels, upper and lower receivers, triggers, stocks, etc. Can anyone say for certain what parts Rock River, Bushmaster, Stag, DPMS, etc., make in house? It seems the main differences you are going to see is in things like finish, choice of furniture, sights, accessories, and that sort of thing. Care in assembly and quality control are obvious issues. If you get a weapon with a bad finish or out of spec assembly, return it and demand it be made right. All makers are going to have their occasional slips, but will correct them if they care about their rep, and most do. Internet being what it is, the makers of junk won't be able to hide for long.

I highlighted the important parts of your posts.

Decent is a key word. What may be fine for some users may be substandard for others.

And yes, most AR "makers" do not make a single part. They just assemble ordered parts from the big "suppliers" or actual makers of the parts.(I.E. CMT or LAR)
The difference is that one "maker" specs their parts to be of "this" quality from a supplier like CMT. And another "maker" specifies a different and much better quality parts from the same supplier like CMT and hold a much higher Q&C standards and inspections.

thunderbat
10-18-2009, 06:45
I have two and am very pleased with both of them. They are tack drivers and built solidly. I would like to know what the detractors consider to be sub standard parts that RRA uses--OMG, my castle nut was not staked at the factory, nevermind, yes RRA are junk:yawn:

Kentak
10-18-2009, 08:30
The difference is that one "maker" specs their parts to be of "this" quality from a supplier like CMT. And another "maker" specifies a different and much better quality parts from the same supplier like CMT and hold a much higher Q&C standards and inspections.

Please give some examples of each and explain in what way the specs are different.

I'll give you one, though I can't name specific makers. I know some makers have barrels of xyz grade steel and others uses zyx grade steel. How many users, including LE agencies, will ever see an empirical difference in those barrels, and if they do, over what round count? If I gave you a rifle with an unmarked barrel, how would *you* ever tell what grade of steel it was?

dad2thebone
10-18-2009, 08:57
Thanks, all for the inciteful points. I'm new to the forum, and appreciate the knowledge, wisdom and experience here.
One point I picked up already on this thread is that the gun mags would slant coverage based on favorite sponsors. The Taurus example makes lots of sense to me.
I always knew gun mags were trying to sell me guns, but bending a field test to fit their agenda was something I wouldn't have expected. Now that I think about it, you can see it.

Do you guys think Rifleman is unbiased? Any mags or books you see as more fair or true? Maybe this is for another thread...

Rooster Rugburn
10-18-2009, 09:07
Mine has been perfect, but I am not a brand whore, or snob. I also didn't put a $35,000 optic on it. I did have to properly stake my gas key, but that was no big deal. I had to do that on other brands too.

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts, check this link. If you follow the tweaks, you'll not only learn a lot about your rifle, you will have a closer to mil-spec rifle. It can be a neat project for a winter afternoon.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376


This links to a chart of the what and why, and explains "the chart". The first part of the first sentence links to "the chart".

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

HAIL CAESAR
10-18-2009, 23:45
Please give some examples of each and explain in what way the specs are different.

I'll give you one, though I can't name specific makers. I know some makers have barrels of xyz grade steel and others uses zyx grade steel. How many users, including LE agencies, will ever see an empirical difference in those barrels, and if they do, over what round count? If I gave you a rifle with an unmarked barrel, how would *you* ever tell what grade of steel it was?

Lowers and uppers so tight that you need a hammer and punch to push the pins. That is really needed for a combat type gun.:upeyes:

Two stage match triggers that are known to go TU after relatively low round counts. That is really needed for a combat type gun.:upeyes:

Match chambers. That is really needed for a combat type gun.:upeyes:

Dremeled feed ramps instead of spending the extra dollar and doing it right. And yes. I have been told it is a one dollar cost to the companies to to it right by several sources.

Using glue instead of proper staking. Again, That is really needed for a combat type gun.:upeyes:

dad2thebone
10-23-2009, 15:02
What's TU?

NeverMore1701
10-23-2009, 15:29
Toes up. Dead.

HAIL CAESAR
10-23-2009, 22:30
What's TU?

Hummm, since this is a family site...or I would like to keep it as clean as possible..

TU= "Female Mammary Glands" UP.

NeverMore1701
10-24-2009, 07:57
Hummm, since this is a family site...or I would like to keep it as clean as possible..

TU= "Female Mammary Glands" UP.

I went for the more family friendly version :tongueout:

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 12:43
If dad2thebone didn't pick up on it in the links, a short answer is that most of the "substandard" AR-15's are only labeled as such because their factory don't properly stake castle nuts, stake gas keys, use mil-spec buffers or taper pins. These are small petty issues that can easily be done by the owner, but for non combat situations, have negligible value or meaning other than nuisance.

But, it gives the gun snobs something to scoff at. Some people have an inherent need to look down their nose, and sit in judgment of others. But realistically, for the non combatant, these are petty issues and easily addressed.

These folks spend $2k on a high end AR-15, that has the castle nut and gas keys staked, taper pins and H2 buffer. No way are they going to accept that the $800 unit someone did all that themselves is going to be as good.

Now M-4 feedramps and chrome lining, I think ARE significant issues. But my RRA, Stag, and BM's all have them.

Javelin
10-24-2009, 15:10
These folks spend $2k on a high end AR-15, that has the castle nut and gas keys staked, taper pins and H2 buffer. No way are they going to accept that the $800 unit someone did all that themselves is going to be as good.


I have no problem with someone restaking a gas key correctly or swapping out a couple components, it just costs more money and detracts from the "savings" that were first realized in the budget rifle category. I don't really care about M4 feedramps as long as they are there. My problem I have with my Armalite and DPMS (or RRA, Bushmaster, etc) in terms of combat ability is that they do not have an M16 BCG and even further that the DPMS is not chrome lined - RRA offers chrome lining as an option and many folks don't.

But as far as ARs are concerned I WOULD NEVER even bother comparing something like my Colt to my Noveske. It would not be fair to my Colt or any other $2000+ AR for that matter.

:tongueout:

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 17:26
These folks spend $2k on a high end AR-15, that has the castle nut and gas keys staked, taper pins and H2 buffer. No way are they going to accept that the $800 unit someone did all that themselves is going to be as good.


You don't have to spend 2 grand to have a correctly built rifle. You can get a CD LE for 999 that is built correctly. Or a bill or two more for a Colt or LMT.

You see the problem really lies in the fact that most AR companies cater to the non-shooting and don't know a difference from a hole in the ground buyers. If more people would become informed and make wise purchases, then a lot of AR companies would either have to straighten up their act or face going out of business.

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 17:27
See a lot of combat there in N. Dallas, do ya?

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 17:38
See a lot of combat there in N. Dallas, do ya?

No, probably not now. But one day Texas may lead the Freedom Rebellion against the US Gubberment.:rofl:

Or maybe he likes his toys to be built correctly. Maybe he hates buying ARs that are spec'ed and built by some factory bean counter, that thinks most the buyers too stupid realize shiittee when they see it.

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 17:38
You see the problem really lies in the fact that most AR companies cater to the non-shooting and don't know a difference from a hole in the ground buyers. If more people would become informed and make wise purchases, then a lot of AR companies would either have to straighten up their act or face going out of business.


Maybe those AR companies are just filling a niche, and that niche is a market segment of people who just want to own one for posing, or to take it to the range from time to time.

Those people are not going to see the gross amount of combat Javelin will in N. Dallas, and we all know N. Dallas has been a hot zone for combat for millions of years.

My niche rifles have been through many classes without a single problem. But then, I haven't had to go into any N. Dallas combat zones.

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 17:49
Maybe those AR companies are just filling a niche, and that niche is a market segment of people who just want to own one for posing, or to take it to the range from time to time.

Those people are not going to see the gross amount of combat Javelin will in N. Dallas, and we all know N. Dallas has been a hot zone for combat for millions of years.

My niche rifles have been through many classes without a single problem. But then, I haven't had to go into any N. Dallas combat zones.

A niche for uninformed buyer folks?? Buyers that never really use their guns for anything but poodle shooting or buying Magpul parts for errornet picture taking??? Yes, I would agree.

We have all heard about the Blackthorne/Oly/gunshow parts bin beaters that have been to every training course ever offered to the citizens of the USA. Never missed a beat and the shooter was awarded "top shooter" beating all those silly expensive rifles and riflemen.

But that one gun is a statistical anomaly. So is the Yugo that went a half million miles with no breakage. In reality what it means is nothing.

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 19:38
Even the highest dollar AR is for wannabees\posers\amateurs. Combative conditions in N. Dallas and N. Dallas posers are fine for the AR. AR's are good for training when there is no incoming fire. The ammo is light and cheap, and the rifle is good for learning the techniques involved.

But the true professional, the hardened tactical operator, is going to carry a real rifle into combat, not a toy. Unless of course, he works for the US government and\or has no choice.

In reality, ALL AR-15's are for varminting and posing. So if you are going to get a toy rifle for posing, get a low end AR. They are a hoot to shoot. 1,000 rounds won't wear you out like a real rifle will.

NeverMore1701
10-24-2009, 19:41
Maybe those AR companies are just filling a niche, and that niche is a market segment of people who just want to own one for posing, or to take it to the range from time to time.

Those people are not going to see the gross amount of combat Javelin will in N. Dallas, and we all know N. Dallas has been a hot zone for combat for millions of years.

My niche rifles have been through many classes without a single problem. But then, I haven't had to go into any N. Dallas combat zones.

I'd like to point out that just because someone may currently reside in N Dallas, or in a shop, or wherever, does not mean that is where they have always been.

stickman77
10-24-2009, 19:42
even the highest dollar ar is for wannabees\posers\amateurs. Combative conditions in n. Dallas and n. Dallas posers are fine for the ar. Ar's are good for training when there is no incoming fire. The ammo is light and cheap, and the rifle is good for learning the techniques involved.

But the true professional, the hardened tactical operator, is going to carry a real rifle into combat, not a toy. Unless of course, he works for the us government and\or has no choice.

In reality, all ar-15's are for varminting and posing. So if you are going to get a toy rifle for posing, get a low end ar. They are a hoot to shoot. 1,000 rounds won't wear you out like a real rifle will.

+10000

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 19:49
I'd like to point out that just because someone may currently reside in N Dallas, or in a shop, or wherever, does not mean that is where they have always been.

Agreed.

BUT, when someone is in their shop or N. Dallas, spewing how only their high dollar AR is suitable for combat, it makes them look like posers.

ETA:

I don't bemoan someone who spent way too much on an AR for wanting "bragging rights" and the ability to validate their purchase by looking down their nose at anything else. It's just gets beyond rational at a certain extent.

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 21:19
Even the highest dollar AR is for wannabees\posers\amateurs. Combative conditions in N. Dallas and N. Dallas posers are fine for the AR. AR's are good for training when there is no incoming fire. The ammo is light and cheap, and the rifle is good for learning the techniques involved.

But the true professional, the hardened tactical operator, is going to carry a real rifle into combat, not a toy. Unless of course, he works for the US government and\or has no choice.

In reality, ALL AR-15's are for varminting and posing. So if you are going to get a toy rifle for posing, get a low end AR. They are a hoot to shoot. 1,000 rounds won't wear you out like a real rifle will.

Well how many damn Wars have you been too lately and what rifle did you drag with you? Post about your rifle and tell about the last time it saved your bacon. I can!
The AR platform worked pretty damn well for me. In fact I still drag mine to work with me every time I step foot out the door. It is a damn shy better than the old Winchester 30-30's we used to 100 mph tape flashlights too 30 odd years ago!

And what pray tell is your definition of a "hardened tactical operator"? Is that off the newest Atari game on the Walmart shelves?

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 21:29
And just for full disclosure;

I do take my rifle coyote hunting and general predator dispatching also.:tongueout:

It does a fine job there too, but so would almost any AR decently built.

Rooster Rugburn
10-24-2009, 22:21
And just for full disclosure;

I do take my rifle coyote hunting and general predator dispatching also.:tongueout:

It does a fine job there too, but so would almost any AR decently built.


The AR is a FINE rifle for enemies that don't shoot back.

Let's not forget, you can shoot 2k rounds in an AR in just a couple hours or less, and still have enough energy left for some nookie.

You shoot 2k rounds in a real rifle, and nookie is the last thing on your mind. It will wear you out.

The AR is a hoot to shoot.

The AR has it's advantages. If I take a carbine class, I am using an AR. When I go into combat in N. Dallas, I might take an AR.

But when I am doing wetwork on other continents, not so much.

HAIL CAESAR
10-24-2009, 22:37
The AR is a FINE rifle for enemies that don't shoot back.

Ask a lot of Vietnam vets about that.

Let's not forget, you can shoot 2k rounds in an AR in just a couple hours or less, and still have enough energy left for some nookie.

What?
You shoot 2k rounds in a real rifle, and nookie is the last thing on your mind. It will wear you out.

No kidding, really?

The AR is a hoot to shoot.

Yes, it is.

The AR has it's advantages. If I take a carbine class, I am using an AR. When I go into combat in N. Dallas, I might take an AR.

Good for you.

But when I am doing wetwork on other continents, not so much.

If you are serious, "Fair winds and following seas."

What class were you in?

NeverMore1701
10-24-2009, 22:38
But when I am doing wetwork on other continents, not so much.

To take a page from your previous posts, when do you expect that to be?

m87
10-24-2009, 22:42
The AR is a FINE rifle for enemies that don't shoot back.

Let's not forget, you can shoot 2k rounds in an AR in just a couple hours or less, and still have enough energy left for some nookie.

You shoot 2k rounds in a real rifle, and nookie is the last thing on your mind. It will wear you out.

The AR is a hoot to shoot.

The AR has it's advantages. If I take a carbine class, I am using an AR. When I go into combat in N. Dallas, I might take an AR.

But when I am doing wetwork on other continents, not so much.


So...what's a real rifle? Are you saying an AR is not a real combat rifle because of the caliber, or because of durability, or because of something else?

HAIL CAESAR
10-25-2009, 00:04
Hello? Hello? Rooster, you there old man?

DrMaxit
10-25-2009, 00:07
Mine has been perfect, but I am not a brand whore, or snob. I also didn't put a $35,000 optic on it. I did have to properly stake my gas key, but that was no big deal. I had to do that on other brands too.

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts, check this link. If you follow the tweaks, you'll not only learn a lot about your rifle, you will have a closer to mil-spec rifle. It can be a neat project for a winter afternoon.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376


This links to a chart of the what and why, and explains "the chart". The first part of the first sentence links to "the chart".

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

Great post... Tagged for that.

HAIL CAESAR
10-25-2009, 00:43
Great post... Tagged for that.

Not really a great post if you think about it. I will explain.

For every person that buys a AR and finds these links on this and other sites that tell you remedies to fix and upgrade your AR for better performance there are hundreds of buyers that don't. These consumers just expect to plunk down x amount of dollars and think the AR maker for the AR they are buying are putting the best quality and doing whatever it takes to "do it right". They just don't understand when they comeback into a gunshop with a rifle they just bought and it won't work. They don't understand you have to do modifications and upgrades on some of these rifles. It doesn't make sense to them. "Why wouldn't the factory smack those little metal screws before the rifle left the factory?" And "why would the factory put in a incorrect part?"
When I was in the gunshop all the time I would check every rifle that came though. Especially Oly before I refused to sell or even trade on them. I would stake every key and castle nut. Check extractors and inserts. Why you ask? Cause it was easier on me. The customer would not come back in all mad as Hades and may blame me for selling a defective gun. And I would not have to deal with the factory ( especially Oly) or distributor ( especially Zander's).

Alaskapopo
10-25-2009, 01:51
Well how many damn Wars have you been too lately and what rifle did you drag with you? Post about your rifle and tell about the last time it saved your bacon. I can!
The AR platform worked pretty damn well for me. In fact I still drag mine to work with me every time I step foot out the door. It is a damn shy better than the old Winchester 30-30's we used to 100 mph tape flashlights too 30 odd years ago!

And what pray tell is your definition of a "hardened tactical operator"? Is that off the newest Atari game on the Walmart shelves?

+1 good post but you are dating yourself with the Atari comment. I remember having one of the first Atari's as a kid. They are ancient.

The AR15 family of weapons is arguably the best every made in its class. They are the longest running American service arm for good reason.

Pat

HAIL CAESAR
10-25-2009, 02:11
+1 good post but you are dating yourself with the Atari comment. I remember having one of the first Atari's as a kid. They are ancient.

The AR15 family of weapons is arguably the best every made in its class. They are the longest running American service arm for good reason.

Pat

Yeah, I guess I did date myself a bit. But, I bet I got my point across. :wavey:

I'm still waiting for the SEAL to get done with his "wetwork" and respond.

Alaskapopo
10-25-2009, 02:19
Yeah, I guess I did date myself a bit. But, I bet I got my point across. :wavey:

I'm still waiting for the SEAL to get done with his "wetwork" and respond.

You made your point well. Lots of commando's on the internet.
Pat

HAIL CAESAR
10-25-2009, 02:24
You made your point well. Lots of commando's on the internet.
Pat

Remember, that is why I'm just a farmer.:supergrin:

(I couldn't find a cartoon for "wink,wink"):wavey:

stickman77
10-25-2009, 04:52
You made your point well. Lots of commando's on the internet.
Pat

dang sure quite a few on glocktalk.....

Rooster Rugburn
10-25-2009, 08:49
I was asked about my experience.

I served in a special unit in the Navy. We were under direct command of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and more specifically, the Chief of Naval Operations. We were cross trained with other units. We spent 4 weeks in SEAL training, 4 weeks in AF PJ training, and 4 weeks in Ranger training.

We got our combat training in N. Dallas.

When in country, we wore a raspberry beret, the kind you find in a second hand store........


hook, line, and sinker. :tongueout::rofl:

Rooster Rugburn
10-25-2009, 09:13
Not really a great post if you think about it. I will explain.

For every person that buys a AR and finds these links on this and other sites that tell you remedies to fix and upgrade your AR for better performance there are hundreds of buyers that don't. These consumers just expect to plunk down x amount of dollars and think the AR maker for the AR they are buying are putting the best quality and doing whatever it takes to "do it right". They just don't understand when they comeback into a gunshop with a rifle they just bought and it won't work. They don't understand you have to do modifications and upgrades on some of these rifles. It doesn't make sense to them. "Why wouldn't the factory smack those little metal screws before the rifle left the factory?" And "why would the factory put in a incorrect part?"
When I was in the gunshop all the time I would check every rifle that came though. Especially Oly before I refused to sell or even trade on them. I would stake every key and castle nut. Check extractors and inserts. Why you ask? Cause it was easier on me. The customer would not come back in all mad as Hades and may blame me for selling a defective gun. And I would not have to deal with the factory ( especially Oly) or distributor ( especially Zander's).

You imply that any AR that is not the high end cost, is going to suffer from one malfunction after another. That's just not true. My first BM had 14k rounds, and 3 carbine classes, through it before I found the info linked above.

Every AR I have, had the gas key staked at the factory. Just seemingly not deep enough. IMO, they were not staked well enough, but I might be wrong, I am not a mechanical engineer. After all, there was never a problem with mine. But I tend to agree though, if they are going to do it half arse, why not do it right. Or, perhaps they did it enough. Their engineers knew the amount they staked was enough. How much extra would tapered pins cost?

As for someone who just wants to have a plinker for the range, and has a family to feed, a RRA, Stag, BM, are all fine. A lot of people just cannot justify going all out and spending twice as much just for bragging rights.

As for me, I could afford a top end, but I would rather have that extra money working for me. Plus, I am a technical type, I enjoy tweaking my rifles. IMO, it helps build a better understanding of them. When I bought a new TV a few years ago, I could afford one significantly larger and better. Instead, I got a smaller one and left money in the bank. Same way with my DVD player. I could afford high end with all the bells and whistles, I just chose not to.

If buyers are a little more serious about their hobby, and participate in forums like this, M4carbine.net etc., they will find the information they need to make the decision themselves.

But unless they live in areas like N. Dallas, where combat is likely, expected, and prepared for, a low end plinker for weekends at the range is all they will ever need.

The main point is, the buyers of these cheap AR's are not going to find themselves in a firefight in N.Dallas and have their weapon go TU. If it happens, it will be while plinking in a field or at the range. Then they might learn of the tweaks. But chances are, they will never have any problems, and the only lesson they will walk away with is that they saved several hundred dollars, and all that several hundred dollars would get them in a little chisel work.


I'm just picking about the N.Dallas thing. It's all in good fun.


You made your point well. Lots of commando's on the internet.
Pat

You mean like people who live in N.Dallas, or are in their shop, and speak of having an AR suitable for combat?

smokin762
10-25-2009, 10:17
I wanted to get some opinions on the AR I purchased a year ago. Rock River Arms A4 with 18'' bull barrell. It seemed at the time that RRA might be slightly better quality than a Bushy or other "entry level" AR's. Then I saw a review of several AR's in some combat gun magazine, and RRA was pretty far down the list. The trigger seems to be a bit nicer than others. Bought gun for varmints and plinking.

Paid $900, so felt like the price was right, anyway.

Any feedback on RRA quality and performance would be appreciated.
(Ever see any of the RRA 1911's? They seem to be VERY nice at $1,500-$2,500).

I have two Bushmaster’s and two Rock River Arms. I sold my Sig 556 about six months ago to get my fourth. I bought a Rock River Arms AR15 with a 16” barrel and the mid-length gas system and a detachable carry handle.

Since I have used Dura Coat to paint the furniture O.D. Green, I just thought the color looks better than the black does after I got it.

I put a Magpul CTR stock on it and a Receiver plate that has the eyelet for the HK style snap hook for a sling. I did put an ambidextrous Safety on it and I ordered three more for my other AR’s, I did like that feature on the Sig 556. I also have installed Harris Bi Pod adapters on all of my AR’s that way I only had to buy one Bi Pod.

I prefer the factory hand guards, I do not like the extra weight of the other hand guards with all the rails. I do not see myself fighting off any bad people or Zombies of large masses but I have been wrong in the past. After all, I did just watch Zombie Land. I did cut a piece of Picatinny rail and mounted it on the lower section of the hand guard to keep my options open for a light.

I have never had a problem with any of my AR’s and my newest addition, the RRA mid-length has been fun at the range. Not one of my AR’s like Wolf Polymer ammo but all of them will eat up the Wolf Military Classic without problems. I think the Rock River’s are great rifles.:dunno:

HAIL CAESAR
10-25-2009, 12:17
I was asked about my experience.

I served in a special unit in the Navy. We were under direct command of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and more specifically, the Chief of Naval Operations. We were cross trained with other units. We spent 4 weeks in SEAL training, 4 weeks in AF PJ training, and 4 weeks in Ranger training.

We got our combat training in N. Dallas.

When in country, we wore a raspberry beret, the kind you find in a second hand store........


hook, line, and sinker. :tongueout::rofl:

Again what "Unit" was this? What dates of Service? D.D. 214?

DrMaxit
10-25-2009, 12:19
dang sure quite a few on glocktalk.....

Still not as bad as ARFCOM or whatever its called. ;)

NoGlamour229
10-25-2009, 12:44
Just bought my first AR this week! Rock River 16" Tactical Entry. I absolutely love it!

Alaskapopo
10-25-2009, 13:02
dang sure quite a few on glocktalk.....

I am not a commando but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :cool:

Rooster Rugburn
10-25-2009, 13:21
Was that Holiday Inn Express in N. Dallas?

Alaskapopo
10-25-2009, 13:30
Was that Holiday Inn Express in N. Dallas?

I have not been to Texas since I was a kid. But I plan on going back this winter for a the Larue three gun match.
Pat

Chuck TX
10-25-2009, 14:33
I don't know about North Dallas, but OakCliff is one step from a third world violent crap hole. Go for a visit and you might get your own episode on the First 48. :rofl:

Javelin
10-25-2009, 15:02
See a lot of combat there in N. Dallas, do ya?

The weekend fun and personal training I do with carbine would probably melt or at least cause catestrophic failures to many of these ARs that folks here use (including my Colt).

Example: The wood bench you use to sit on to shoot will burst in flames at 525 degrees (don't try this with Taco Bell's valcano nachos). Shooting standard CQB will cause the end of my gun and suppressor to reach almost 900-1000 degrees. And I do it regularily.

This is why my Noveske sports an M249 barrel and my AAC suppressor is 100% inconel. Good components cost money but they only become expensive if you have to buy twice. Buy once, cry once.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4566/tacticalcqb021a.jpg

FYI Rooster: This particular gun is not for varmints or sport hunting. And neither will the other Noveske shorty I am having built. ;)

But since we are now apparently talking about varmint only-grade rifles here is mine...

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3923/gteditedarchivepics383.jpg

I'm just a simple 20-something living in N. Dallas. But as a matter of fact I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

:wavey:

str8tshooter
10-25-2009, 15:59
Tagging this thread

wingsprint
01-06-2010, 04:29
If dad2thebone didn't pick up on it in the links, a short answer is that most of the "substandard" AR-15's are only labeled as such because their factory don't properly stake castle nuts, stake gas keys, use mil-spec buffers or taper pins. These are small petty issues that can easily be done by the owner, but for non combat situations, have negligible value or meaning other than nuisance.

But, it gives the gun snobs something to scoff at. Some people have an inherent need to look down their nose, and sit in judgment of others. But realistically, for the non combatant, these are petty issues and easily addressed.

These folks spend $2k on a high end AR-15, that has the castle nut and gas keys staked, taper pins and H2 buffer. No way are they going to accept that the $800 unit someone did all that themselves is going to be as good.

Now M-4 feedramps and chrome lining, I think ARE significant issues. But my RRA, Stag, and BM's all have them.

Thank you. Well said.

RRA builds a great AR!

I love the references on the internet as to a improperly staked gas key... based on what? Visual observation? How do you determine a dent in metal is better than another dent? The bolts not backing out is all that matters.

Oh- be careful when looking at things like "the chart". Not all of the data is correct. For example- the RRA is listed as not having a chrome lined bore and chamber. Not true...

Three-Five-Seven
01-06-2010, 10:34
RRA makes one of the best, and one of few, middies.

RRA makes one of the best, and one of very few, National Match set-ups.

RRA makes one of the best, and one of few, varmint set ups.

I have one of each and they are all excellent. Accurate as all get-out, solid, totally dependable in my experience. Never had a hiccup with any of them.

When given a choice of lower receivers for assembling a new rifle, I always choose RRA or Stage. Continental Machine does the best receivers for fit and finish in my experience. Good stuff.

And, I have been provided excellent service from both companies in times of need -- ordering, getting parts, technical information.

For my money, components and assemblies from RRA are the best available. YMMV

nipperwolf
01-06-2010, 20:25
For example- the RRA is listed as not having a chrome lined bore and chamber. Not true...

Pssssssst, RRA lists 2 types of barrels; chrome lined, and, chrome moly.

Not knocking RRA. Great company. My nephew loves his. :supergrin:

Alaskapopo
01-06-2010, 20:58
Pssssssst, RRA lists 2 types of barrels; chrome lined, and, chrome moly.

Not knocking RRA. Great company. My nephew loves his. :supergrin:

Yea it helps when people actually pay attention to detail before slamming the chart.
Pat

wingsprint
01-07-2010, 05:39
Yea it helps when people actually pay attention to detail before slamming the chart.
Pat

Before slamming someone pay attention to the chart. You are missing my point. If you look closely- "The chart" fails to show that the RRA model listed (AR1252X) is available in eight variants, four of which have chrome lined barrels at an additional cost of $40. Lacking proper explanation, the chart just lists the RRA as not having a chrome lined barrel. The same chart lists the Sabre as having a chrome lined barrel and yet the model listed (90244) is one of six variants of their M4 profile rifles and yet one of the six dose not have a chrome lined barrel.... You gussed it...the chart fails to explain this fact.

sdsnet
01-07-2010, 05:49
I have an RRA CAR-A4 with all the goodies and I am very happy with mine. Its a great rifle. You made a good choice.

frankmako
01-07-2010, 06:01
got one and it is a good gun. never had any problems with it. it seems just a good as my colts.

04SVT
01-07-2010, 08:04
Have the Rock River Pro Series Gov and love it my two buddies with thier Colts wished after shooting mine had gone with the RRA

Range Rat
01-07-2010, 08:43
My bull barreled RRA NM4 is surprisingly accurate and I couldn't be happier with it. The rifle was front-heavy until I bought and inserted the counter weight into the stock, now it's perfectly balanced. I just use it at the range and for monthly rifle matches.

Daekwan
01-07-2010, 18:38
These threads never fail to entertain.. :)

jimmz
01-07-2010, 22:24
I got a RRA recently. I've gone to the range twice and each time had a FTF when putting in a new mag. Hopefully, the problem is with the mag (I used the same mag each time...but my friends CMMG did not experience a FTF with the mag).

okie
01-08-2010, 01:15
I sure like my RRA Car 2:supergrin::wavey:

Randolph da man
01-08-2010, 12:48
These threads never fail to entertain..




:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: