PM9 new vs old recoil spring guide assembly [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Generalcarry
10-26-2009, 13:43
I just received a new recoil spring and recoil guide assembly spring for my PM9 from Wolff. I have the older PM9 (VA****) and my recoil guide assembly does NOT come apart to replace that spring. I called Kahr and the support guy sounded surprised by this, but claimed "maybe" some were different. The "new" recoil spring from Wolff is about a half inch longer than the original.
Has anyone else run across this situation? :dunno:

Wilson 2008
10-27-2009, 07:13
My new PM45 recoil spring was longer than the old one but had the same number of coils. (The first one Kahr sent was much longer and had more coils...and didn't fit...but they made it right.) The springs get shorter as they wear - no problem.

The assembly is reportedly screwed together with Red Locktite. People have suggested baking the piece to soften it, etc., but I don't remember anybody posting the results of actually doing this. To my limited knowledge all the spring assemblies screw together. Let us know what you figure out.

- Wilson

leadbutt
10-27-2009, 12:06
I'm not using Wolf, but running Kahr's newer spring set up, ended up having to send it back to Kahr to have the lower milled out to fit the larger flange on the recoil spring guide set up, so had them fit the newer barrel while it was there all so

Generalcarry
10-27-2009, 13:48
I went ahead and ordered a new recoil spring AND the assembly unit from Kahr so in a few days see what they all look like. If its a big difference, I'll post a picture.

Caver 60
10-28-2009, 22:31
Red Loctite takes 300 degrees F to break it.

I just heated my wife's toaster oven to about 350 for 20 minutes or so. Then I put the Metal recoil spring assembly in the oven for about 6 or 10 minutes. I watched it through the glass door with a very strong light shining in there. You can see it turn to a white powder. I let it cool and unscrewed it. Cleaned it throughly and degreased it, then reassembled with red Loctite. That was on a PM40, but it should work on a PM9. Now my old MK9 is a different horse altogether.

The new recoil springs will shorten dramatically with firing just a few magazines of ammo. Don't worry about it.

Generalcarry
11-07-2009, 12:04
I received the recoil guide assembly and the flat circular end of the assembly that fits against the barrel is almost twice the size as my original! What the heck is going on???

cziv
11-09-2009, 23:56
Pictures anyone?? I have 3 spring assemblies from Karh for my PM9 and don't know which one to use or how long to use it. New? Old??

GlockFish
11-10-2009, 01:11
I went ahead and ordered a new recoil spring AND the assembly unit from Kahr so in a few days see what they all look like. If its a big difference, I'll post a picture.

I received the recoil guide assembly and the flat circular end of the assembly that fits against the barrel is almost twice the size as my original! What the heck is going on???


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/evilblackrifle223/sad_obama.jpg

alnitak
11-10-2009, 08:32
In another application, rather than putting the item in an oven, I used a soldering iron (one of those new fangled battery operated ones that don't turn on unless they touch metal) and touched it to the screws I was trying to remove for about 15 secs. Worked like a charm.

Generalcarry
11-12-2009, 19:47
Left is the new style and on the right, the old style.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z304/Porky-357/DSC04789-1.jpg

Chuck54
11-13-2009, 16:13
Will that larger disk work okay?

I have an older PM9 "VA" series and have been thinking it's getting about time to replace the recoil springs.

Generalcarry
11-13-2009, 16:49
Let me sort this out.
I ordered the recoil springs from Wolff assuming there was a screw (visible) to R&R the springs. That's when I discovered the recoil springs were larger than the old springs. Also, I still can't see this screw to take the assembly apart!

When I ordered from Kahr, I thought the guide assembly/recoil spring would be the same size as the "older" original parts. As you can see, that's not the case.

I called Kahr Mon. or Tues. and customer service said they would send me another assembly like my old one. I assumed, again, that they would just grind the new part until the circumference was the same as the old original. I have yet to receive the new part.

In any case, how the hell does the assembly come apart?

ltxi
11-13-2009, 19:57
I don't believe the guide rod assembly was intended to be taken apart. If I had to guess, I'd say it was red loctited and can be disassembled with heat and pliers.....that seems to be Wolff's notion. Personally, I don't see the point. The guide rod assembly is something like 14 or 15 bucks if I remember correctly and won't need changing as often, if ever, as the recoil spring anyway.

I have a spare guide assembly and recoil spring for my PM9 on hand but at around 2500 rounds or so have yet to change either. The lengths of my new spare and in service recoil springs are comparable to what you show in your pics....as expected.

I have an IAxxxx s/n pistol so both the supplied and replacement guide rods are the later style. I don't know for sure if there was a change in the barrel lug cut that would affect functionality in your case, but probably so. The cut on mine is different than yours. Also, fwiw, remember that Kahr's OEM spring supplier is Wolff.

Hope this helps.

Generalcarry
11-15-2009, 10:53
I dumped the captured assemblies on my Glocks as soon as I got them and run Wolff on all the others, when I order, I order quite a few.
Is there any chance I could see a picture of the "newer cut" on the barrel lug?

ltxi
11-15-2009, 16:21
I hear you on the Glocks. I still use the stock captive assembly on my G27 as it seems to work well, but my G23 got a T.H.E. guide rod and uses ISMI recoil springs.

Do not have a camera available at the moment. Could maybe provide pics in a couple of days, but for the moment......looking again, it's not just the cut, my barrel lug is different. The lower front part of the lug, the section that provides the bearing surface for the guide rod, extends about another 50% to the right, looking from the muzzle. The cut extends straight, all the way across instead of curving up the way yours does. New style lug/guide rod interface does appear to be an improvement. I seriously doubt the new and old style are interchangeable.

Sorry for the lack of immediate pics.

Generalcarry
11-17-2009, 05:45
I hear you on the Glocks. I still use the stock captive assembly on my G27 as it seems to work well, but my G23 got a T.H.E. guide rod and uses ISMI recoil springs.

Do not have a camera available at the moment. Could maybe provide pics in a couple of days, but for the moment......looking again, it's not just the cut, my barrel lug is different. The lower front part of the lug, the section that provides the bearing surface for the guide rod, extends about another 50% to the right, looking from the muzzle. The cut extends straight, all the way across instead of curving up the way yours does. New style lug/guide rod interface does appear to be an improvement. I seriously doubt the new and old style are interchangeable.

Sorry for the lack of immediate pics.



I'd appreciate the the picture. The guide assembly came from Kahr yesterday and it the same new style (on the left of the photograph), the one with the "larger head. I wonder if I'm going to have to get a new barrel??????

wagonm
11-17-2009, 09:16
Here a pix of the barrel for a IBxxxx PM9 - dob July 2009

http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/medium/PM9_barrel_guide_rod_recess.jpg

Chuck54
11-24-2009, 14:10
Have you been able to resolve the problem of the new vs. the old style spring assemblies?


I'm guessing the new (large head) assembly will not work in place of the old style.

ltxi
11-24-2009, 19:48
Here a pix of the barrel for a IBxxxx PM9 - dob July 2009


That's interesting.....my IAxxxx barrel has a straight cut all the way across. I assume that curved cut bit is to help locate the guide rod head more positively, although I've never had a problem.

No, I'm pretty sure the new style guide rod assembly won't work with the older barrel's lug......unless the guide rod head is ground down.

wagonm
11-25-2009, 00:25
"Interesting"? Indeed.

The earlier pix was a replacment barrel I received in early Nov .. long story short and fast forward to last week, I received another one and it has a straight line cut. (see pix below).

Anyway, not to hijack this thread, the pix is just to demo the different between older barrel and the newer barrel.

http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/medium/PM9_barrel_3_front.jpg



That's interesting.....my IAxxxx barrel has a straight cut all the way across. I assume that curved cut bit is to help locate the guide rod head more positively, although I've never had a problem.

No, I'm pretty sure the new style guide rod assembly won't work with the older barrel's lug......unless the guide rod head is ground down.

ltxi
11-25-2009, 18:31
That's the cut I have on mine.....purchased August 2008.

badge4436
11-30-2009, 12:09
Does Kahr still make the recoil spring assembly for the older PM9's? My serial #VB####. Uses the old style. Did purchase an extra before the change so figure I'm good for quite awhile. Still using the original that came with the pistol new.

PhoenixCCW
05-05-2010, 16:20
Does Kahr still make the recoil spring assembly for the older PM9's? My serial #VB####. Uses the old style. Did purchase an extra before the change so figure I'm good for quite awhile. Still using the original that came with the pistol new.

They have them. When I received the new assembly, I emailed to find out what the story is. He said they will ship me the VB#### assembly instead. They really need to provide that option on their parts ordering page.

3427
05-06-2010, 19:28
I got a new recoil spring and rod from Kahr and could not reassemble the pistol because the head wastoo large. I call Kahr and they sent me another new set that fit although it was extremely hard to reassemble the pistol. I fire 100 rounds without any problems. Mine is an early production PM9

Generalcarry
05-07-2010, 03:32
This is my correspondence with Kahr from Nov. 2009:





Subject: Re: Fw: PM9 barrels


I have a older PM9 (#VA****) and I would like to know if there is any difference between my "older" barrel when compared to a "newer" PM9 barrel that is now in production? More to the point, are the "older" barrels and the "newer" barrels identical?
I was concerned because the flange on my old recoil guide assembly is different than the newer recoil guide assemblies. Do I need a new barrel or any mill work on my VA PM9 or, can I just "drop in" the new guide rod assembly?

Please advise.


***The new barrels will not fit in the old frames. We changed the design of the barrel lug. The new recoil spring and assembly will fit your old barrel. If you ever decide to purchase a new barrel you will have to send in the pistol so that we can modify the frame so that it will fit. I hope that answers your questions.

Ian Burr



Thank You for the clarification and quick response. In that I carry the PM9 daily, I'm concerned if the new assembly, barrel, and milled frame is a "crucial" modification? If that's the case, I would like to send this gun in for said modification as soon as possible.
Would the total cost be the price of the barrel, or, for the modification as well?

Thanks once again and awaiting your reply,


***As long as your barrel is not worn out there really is no need to have the frame modified. If you still want it modified you would just have to pay for shipping it into us and the cost of the barrel we would cover the work and return shipping to you.

Ian Burr



Wagonm (Thanks for the picture!)

cfiben
08-21-2011, 21:54
i just bought two used pm9s. one black one SS. The barrels are very different, the new barrel looks thicker, the spring is beefier, and the plastic frame contours are different. I was expecting them to be identical but there are lots of differences.