Which AR-15 .22 rimfire to get? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Which AR-15 .22 rimfire to get?


pesticidal
10-27-2009, 14:10
I'm getting the hankering for one of the dedicated 22 long rifle AR-15's. Too many choices, SW, Ruger Remington, Colt. Which one should I get?

Who's got my answer (Other than buy one of each...)?

:supergrin:

Omaha-BeenGlockin
10-27-2009, 14:21
Ruger---its the only one that's actually a .22

coachg
10-27-2009, 14:24
I like the S&W. Very accurate and the magazines are study and pretty cheap $20. Price is right too. $409.

pesticidal
10-27-2009, 14:25
Ruger would be nice, I got lots of 10/22 magazines.

$409.00 for the S&W? Where? That's a hella good price.

pesticidal
10-27-2009, 14:28
Ruger---its the only one that's actually a .22

:headscratch:

vafish
10-27-2009, 14:29
Ruger---its the only one that's actually a .22

Huh?


S+W and Colt make .22 LR copies of the AR15.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=753508&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15702&isFirearm=Y

http://www.colt22rimfire.com/

Oh and I'd go for one of the dedicated .22LR uppers on a real AR15 lower.

coachg
10-27-2009, 14:30
Ruger would be nice, I got lots of 10/22 magazines.

$409.00 for the S&W? Where? That's a hella good price.

Next time you're out in Pennsylvania I'll let you know. :tongueout:

Just kiddin. I imagine North Dakota has some great things that are better than good gun prices.

pesticidal
10-27-2009, 14:49
Next time you're out in Pennsylvania I'll let you know. :tongueout:

Just kiddin. I imagine North Dakota has some great things that are better than good gun prices.

Uh, I can't really think of anything....




:rofl:

Chuck TX
10-27-2009, 15:36
I am extremely happy with my Tac Sol AR-22 M4 upper (Black Dog Machine (http://blackdogmachinellc.net/ar15-uppers.aspx) has them for $499). Dedicated .22 upper, goes on a standard 5.56 AR lower. I think it's the same or similar barrel as the 10/22. Damn accurate too, as good as my other semi .22LR rifles. Only had it for a couple weeks so far, but I've been running it hard straight out of the box, feeding it a variety of ammo including older than dirt Federal. No jams, no FTF, no FTE. I really could not be more pleased with it.

Definitely would recommend.

coachg
10-27-2009, 15:43
Uh, I can't really think of anything....




:rofl:


I guess not in the winter. Fargo was a pretty good movie though. :supergrin:

USMC03Grunt
10-27-2009, 17:16
Uh, I can't really think of anything....




:rofl:

Uh, kind of forgetting the hunting, fishing, gun laws that aren't imposed by Nazis, a CCW test that was 10 questions, open book and an hour to take with a firing portion of hitting a B-27 silhouette at 21 feet 7 times out of 10 within 5 minutes (did mine with a cap and ball revolver to keep things interesting), low crime rates (we never did lock the doors at night and kept the engine running during the winter on a run into a store without any worries), no brown skies, no traffic problems, good school systems (my Captain at my last base pulled his kids out of the local public school and put them into private school citing he wanted them to get an education that was on par with the public education they were getting in Minot) and a population you can look at without wondering what kind of freak show you wound up at and why you weren't charged admission. Dang, I better shut up now or too many folks will wind up moving in there and ruining the whole danged state!

DScottHewitt
10-27-2009, 17:47
Huh?


S+W and Colt make .22 LR copies of the AR15.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=753508&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15702&isFirearm=Y

http://www.colt22rimfire.com/

Oh and I'd go for one of the dedicated .22LR uppers on a real AR15 lower.

SIG makes one now, too

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/aboutus/news/SIG522%20Rifle%20Final.pdf

thisaway
10-27-2009, 17:54
I intend to get one the S&Ws when I can. They are less pricey around here than the Colt rifles.

lee2
10-27-2009, 18:24
get the S&W. stay far away from the colt.:wavey:

Ranger54
10-27-2009, 19:06
If you already have an AR, I really like my Spikes dedicated .22LR upper.

BulgarWheat
10-28-2009, 09:28
picked up Colt's 22LR AR a while back. Nice plinker

DJ Niner
10-29-2009, 00:55
Pesty, I was set on getting the S&W, then someone pointed me to the several "problem" (usually extractor problem) threads over at Arfcom. I also considered an upper/conversion, but many of these function poorly with aftermarket trigger assemblies, along with having twist rate and/or accuracy troubles.

I think I'm going to wait a bit more for the bugs to get ironed-out...

Alaskapopo
10-29-2009, 01:09
I like Spikes. Tac Sol is also excellent.
Pat
Here is mine.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20rifles/Descriptiononpic.jpg

Blitzer
10-29-2009, 04:06
get the S&W. stay far away from the colt.:wavey:

And why should one do that? :whistling: :dunno:

Since I have a boat load of 10/22 magazines I hope to be going after another Ruger 10/22 with a: two stage KID trigger and bolt assembly, Tac-Solutions suppressor barrel/w can or Tactical Innovations threaded barrel for the Aguila SSS rounds and an inexpensive Tactical Aim Point...

Alaskapopo
10-29-2009, 04:12
And why should one do that? :whistling: :dunno:

The Colt is made by Walther and its about Airsoft gun quality. The Smith is better but I don't care for either and prefer a dedicated .22 lr upper with a normal AR15 lower. Costs more but its better.
Pat

Gombu
10-29-2009, 09:54
I know I would not get the Colt.

The one I was checking out out the gun store broke in my hands. The bolt release would not release.

brickboy240
10-29-2009, 10:33
The word is that the Colt is not very reliable and it has that funky 180 degree safety that is beyond awkward. The Smith seems to be a bit better.

In reailty, we might all be better served by a 10-22 with some Tactical Innovations mags and call it good. Less headaches and you know these work like the devil.

The 22 ARs look cool but seem to still have their warts...I am staying away.

What about the GSG carbine? Is it more reliable and trouble free?

- brickboy240

Frog1
10-29-2009, 17:17
I have the Smith. It hasn't displayed the loose extractor yet. I had the GSG. Made out of Zinc with lots of screws. I like the Smith. All normal AR accessories work on it and it seems pretty solid. The magazines have to be loaded carefully, not enough angle to line them up in a hurry. I think it is the best deal for dedicated platforms. I also have a Ruger 10-22. It is the standard by which all others are measured.

pesticidal
10-29-2009, 18:50
Does the Ruger have an attachment for the mags so they look like an AR-15 mag?

spyder1969
10-29-2009, 20:01
I like the S&W. Very accurate and the magazines are study and pretty cheap $20. Price is right too. $409.

This received good reviews compared to Colt's AR .22

Reswob
10-29-2009, 22:21
Already have a AR? Just buy a .22 upper (Spike's for example). I don't get these .22 AR look-alike toys. Seems like a huge waste of cash when for a little bit more you can get an AR that can also use a real caliber. If you just want a .22 to play with get a 10/22 for $175 at walmart.

DJ Niner
10-30-2009, 00:15
Does the Ruger have an attachment for the mags so they look like an AR-15 mag?Not that I've seen. Also, there is no rotating safety lever in the normal AR location on the Ruger. All it is, really, is a 10/22 barreled action dropped/screwed into an aluminum chassis system with a free-float tube and a flash suppressor.

If you want to handle one, The Outdoorsman (across from West Acres) had one on the shelf last week.

More info here:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/SR22/index.html


.

Chuck TX
11-01-2009, 13:21
Here's my TacSol AR-22 build. Couldn't be happier with it. If someone wants an actually AR platform with the same trigger pull and feel as your other ARs and good accuracy get a TacSol or Spikes upper.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/BodhisattvaNosferatu/AK-AR/TacSolAR-22.jpg

ottomatic
11-01-2009, 21:04
After reading the TacSol info I was wondering why I can't use a notched hammer?

Alaskapopo
11-01-2009, 21:17
After reading the TacSol info I was wondering why I can't use a notched hammer?

The cocking angle is a lot steeper with the 22 lr conversions and the notched hammers will catch the bolt as it cocks it causing a nasty malfunction.
Pat

Apocalypse_Now
11-02-2009, 20:41
Uh, kind of forgetting the hunting, fishing, gun laws that aren't imposed by Nazis, a CCW test that was 10 questions, open book and an hour to take with a firing portion of hitting a B-27 silhouette at 21 feet 7 times out of 10 within 5 minutes (did mine with a cap and ball revolver to keep things interesting), low crime rates (we never did lock the doors at night and kept the engine running during the winter on a run into a store without any worries), no brown skies, no traffic problems, good school systems (my Captain at my last base pulled his kids out of the local public school and put them into private school citing he wanted them to get an education that was on par with the public education they were getting in Minot) and a population you can look at without wondering what kind of freak show you wound up at and why you weren't charged admission. Dang, I better shut up now or too many folks will wind up moving in there and ruining the whole danged state!

You mean that it's white and conservative? :cool:

kabob983
11-04-2009, 08:54
Everything I have read says absolutely stay away from the Colts. They're not Colt made, they're not Walther made. They're made by a company called Umarex and yes, they use airsoft quality parts and they are littered with bugs. They are licenced by Colt which is why they have the pony stamp on the side.

I like the look of the S&W but I've not yet fired one.

Spikes typically makes good stuff, might be worth giving the a try. I've got a CMMG .22 conversion kit that works pretty well.

Gosh I wish I could find those listings on Gun Broker. There was a gun shop who had almost every one of the colts he sold returned and he was selling them again listed as things such as "tactical toilet plunger" which was the .22 Umarex with a plunger gluex on or a "tactical rake" with a rake glued on.

Uh, kind of forgetting the hunting, fishing, gun laws that aren't imposed by Nazis, a CCW test that was 10 questions, open book and an hour to take with a firing portion of hitting a B-27 silhouette at 21 feet 7 times out of 10 within 5 minutes (did mine with a cap and ball revolver to keep things interesting), low crime rates (we never did lock the doors at night and kept the engine running during the winter on a run into a store without any worries), no brown skies, no traffic problems, good school systems (my Captain at my last base pulled his kids out of the local public school and put them into private school citing he wanted them to get an education that was on par with the public education they were getting in Minot) and a population you can look at without wondering what kind of freak show you wound up at and why you weren't charged admission. Dang, I better shut up now or too many folks will wind up moving in there and ruining the whole danged state!

Here in Alabama we don't even have a CCW class nor test. You fill out an application, get 3 character witnesses and pick up your licence in 7 to 10 days for a whopping $7.50 fee.

Wilson 2008
11-04-2009, 14:01
A buddy got the S&W recently and we put 500 rounds through the first time out. It has all the right controls (unlike the "colt" with the funky 180 degree safety and fake slide release) and shot very well. Not sure about teething problems with the Smiths, but don't they have a good warranty?

I still like the idea of a conversion (so I can use my optics, rail, etc) or a dedicate upper.

I played with the "colt" in the store and didn't like it.

- Wilson

M1Garand
11-17-2009, 12:26
GSG makes really good looking 22LR of MP5

Narc1911
11-18-2009, 23:26
I just built a dedicated .22, only cost me about $675, with Magpul forend, Moe grip, MBUS and CTR stock. The price was a little more than the S&W or Colt .22lr's, but mine is actually an AR. Mine could be converted to 5.56/.223 for $120, but I have several other AR's so I doubt I would ever do that.

Nestor
11-18-2009, 23:34
I placed the order for S&W MP 15-22 today.

High Altitude
11-19-2009, 00:48
I prefer the S&W and I'm planning on getting one.

I like that all the controls are just like an AR-15 and that it is light weight so my kids will be able to handle it.

flynshoot
11-19-2009, 19:06
CMMG $599 bargain bin dedicated .22 rifle or Spike's Tactical.

The CMMG dedicated works well and is pretty accurate. Much better accuracy than a conversion in a standard 1/7-1/9 barrel. It is pretty much a standard AR with a dedicated .22 upper. The lower is marked .22LR but can be used with a standard 5.56 upper.

fNs

1811guy
11-19-2009, 20:34
I had no idea the SR22 was being made - I am getting one!

glock2619
11-19-2009, 21:19
I had no idea the SR22 was being made - I am getting one!

I've handled two of them now. I'm pretty impressed. Nice work by them to come out with something at least reliable. Controls aren't at all AR-like, but I don't care. I like it anyways. I'm resisting badly. I don't know if I'll be able to hold out.

Frog1
11-20-2009, 19:59
I have spent some quality time with the Smith. Shoots about a .5 group at 50 yrds with CCI minimags. Functions great as long as I take the time to load the mags carefully. I put a cheap foreward grip and rail covers on it to match the feel of my M-4. I can mount the scope or the Strike Fire on either depending on how much money I want to shoot up. It's been great so far.

Alaskapopo
11-20-2009, 21:06
I have spent some quality time with the Smith. Shoots about a .5 group at 50 yrds with CCI minimags.

I would be interested in seeing some pics of those groups. That is excellent for a target grade gun used in the Olympics much less a plinking grade .22 ar.
Pat

vafish
11-20-2009, 21:33
I would be interested in seeing some pics of those groups. That is excellent for a target grade gun used in the Olympics much less a plinking grade .22 ar.
Pat

While I too would like to see a S+W MP15-22 shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards, Shooting 1/2" groups at 50 yards with a rimfire is not that difficult. Olympic prone shooters shoot groups about 1/2 that small.

Here is a 50 yard group that is less than 1/2" outside edge to outside edge that I shot this afternoon with my Savage 93R17 .17 HMR.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/17at50.jpg

And here's a 1/2" group my daughter shot prone in a match back in September.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/22at50.jpg

That's on the A23 target, the international target used in the Olympics at 50 Meters has smaller scoring rings.

Alaskapopo
11-20-2009, 21:45
While I too would like to see a S+W MP15-22 shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards, Shooting 1/2" groups at 50 yards with a rimfire is not that difficult. Olympic prone shooters shoot groups about 1/2 that small.

Here is a 50 yard group that is less than 1/2" outside edge to outside edge that I shot this afternoon with my Savage 93R17 .17 HMR.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/17at50.jpg

And here's a 1/2" group my daughter shot prone in a match back in September.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/22at50.jpg

That's on the A23 target, the international target used in the Olympics at 50 Meters has smaller scoring rings.


I know but an Olympic quality rifle is different from a sporter grade rifle. I had a Winchester 52 Small bore rifle that was extreemly accurate like the targets you post. But I have not seen that in a sporter semi auto.
Pat

vafish
11-20-2009, 22:45
I know but an Olympic quality rifle is different from a sporter grade rifle. I had a Winchester 52 Small bore rifle that was extreemly accurate like the targets you post. But I have not seen that in a sporter semi auto.
Pat

Agree, you don't usually see 1/2" 50 yard groups from a stock sporter .22 LR semi auto. Notice I didn't post any pictures of the groups from the Marlin 60 or AR15 with a Ciener Conversion Kit at 50 yards.

First set of pics I posted were from a Savage 93R17 pre accutrigger, a sporter .17 HMR. Action has been glass bedded, but other than that it is stock.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/05050012.jpg



2nd set of pics were shot with an Anschutz 1607 barreled action in a 1613 stock. It is an Olympic quality rifle even though it is over 30 years old.

The rifle in this photo.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/22s.jpg

Anyhow we are drifting a bit on this thread.

If you want a really accurate .22LR the AR15 copies, even the AR15 uppers are not really what you should get. The .22 LR uppers, conversion kits and copies are great sub caliber training devices.

mac66
11-21-2009, 09:33
Why not a drop in 22 conversion kit for your AR? Both CMMG and Spikes have them and they are the same thing they use in their dedicated uppers.

pesticidal
11-21-2009, 09:52
Why not an AR conversion? Because. That's why.


:rofl:


Seriously, I just want one. I'm leaning heavily to the S & W

jokeruh
11-21-2009, 10:43
S&W is a great choice!!

SunsetMan
11-21-2009, 11:53
Agree, you don't usually see 1/2" 50 yard groups from a stock sporter .22 LR semi auto. Notice I didn't post any pictures of the groups from the Marlin 60 or AR15 with a Ciener Conversion Kit at 50 yards.

First set of pics I posted were from a Savage 93R17 pre accutrigger, a sporter .17 HMR. Action has been glass bedded, but other than that it is stock.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/05050012.jpg

vafish, what kind of critter is that? That looks huge compared to the rifle.

I've been considering one of the new AR-15 style rifles too. I bought a GSG-5 last year because that is the first military style .22 I'd ever seen and I didn't think anyone else would make something like that. Now EVERYONE is making military style .22's :brickwall:

SunsetMan
11-21-2009, 11:58
For those that have the S&W, how is it for maintenance? The GSG-5 is kind of a pain in the butt to field strip with the screws and all. Everything should field strip like a Glock or FN PS90 :supergrin:

Nestor
11-21-2009, 13:04
Why not a drop in 22 conversion kit for your AR? Both CMMG and Spikes have them and they are the same thing they use in their dedicated uppers.

For me it doesn't make any sense.
I have to pay for the AR first, which is about $1600 locally (S&W M&P).
Than I have to buy a conversion kit for another $550.
So, shall I spend $2200 just to have some fun?
I will be perfectly fine paying $600 for the S&W M&P 15-22.
I'm saving $1600 and still can train with the AR platform.
I wouldn't grab the AR for the HD as I'm a strong believer in SxS backed up by the handgun for this purpose.
So, the bottom line is that the dedicated .22lr AR fits my needs perfectly.

brickboy240
11-21-2009, 13:16
... or you could buy a 10-22 Ruger and some hi-cap mags and have a high capacity 22 blaster that gives you less trouble and more dough left over for ammo and a scope.

...just a thought.

- brickboy240

Nestor
11-21-2009, 13:31
I would like to learn how to operate the AR.
Ruger may be the great idea for my daughter though.
:wavey:

mac66
11-21-2009, 17:01
For me it doesn't make any sense.
I have to pay for the AR first, which is about $1600 locally (S&W M&P).
Than I have to buy a conversion kit for another $550.
So, shall I spend $2200 just to have some fun?
I will be perfectly fine paying $600 for the S&W M&P 15-22.
I'm saving $1600 and still can train with the AR platform.
I wouldn't grab the AR for the HD as I'm a strong believer in SxS backed up by the handgun for this purpose.
So, the bottom line is that the dedicated .22lr AR fits my needs perfectly.


Except if you've already bought an AR15, why buy another 22 dedicated one? The CMMG or Spikes kits only cost $200.

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 17:14
I wouldn't grab the AR for the HD as I'm a strong believer in SxS backed up by the handgun for this purpose.


WHAT?

You want to use a 2 shot firearm for home defense. Come on now this is the 21st century. You might as well use a flint lock. Double barrel shotguns are good for two things. Bird hunting and cowboy action shooting. Leave the serious stuff to serious guns. But this is a thread drift. I just could not believe my eyes.
Pat

Nestor
11-21-2009, 17:41
WHAT?

You want to use a 2 shot firearm for home defense. Come on now this is the 21st century. You might as well use a flint lock. Double barrel shotguns are good for two things. Bird hunting and cowboy action shooting. Leave the serious stuff to serious guns. But this is a thread drift. I just could not believe my eyes.
Pat

Hi Pat,
first of all do not ignorantly assume that your situation and location are applying to some other guy - especially if he's living in Canada.
I'm living in condo complex full of the thin walls, on the ground level with the other condos located just across the street (50 yards away from my windows).
In Canada we can't keep the loaded firearm next to our beds.
Those should be locked in the safes with the trigger locks on.
However there is a class of the firearms called a non-restricted one.
You may keep those in the safe - unloaded without the trigger lock on.
SxS belongs to this class.
Pump action shotguns as well.
I can deploy double barreled shotgun fast.
Coach gun may be extremely useful tool for home defense in the hands of the trained individual.
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/reviews/index.php?model=56
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php
We also have a 5 round/per magazine limit with the rifles (sometimes you may come across the legal 10 round magazine as well).
10 rounds limit with the pistols.
For the above reasons (and not only) I do prefer SxS over any rifle.
Have a great day Pat.

SunsetMan
11-21-2009, 17:59
Hi Pat,
first of all do not ignorantly assume that your situation and location are applying to some other guy - especially if he's living in Canada.
I'm living in condo complex full of the thin walls, on the ground level with the other condos located just across the street (50 yards away from my windows).
In Canada we can't keep the loaded firearm next to our beds.
Those should be locked in the safes with the trigger locks on.
However there is a class of the firearms called a non-restricted one.
You may keep those in the safe unloaded without the trigger lock.
SxS belongs to this class.
Pump action shotguns as well.
Most likely You don't have much time on your hands between clicking on the keyboard to figure out that the coach gun may be extremely useful tool for home defense in the hands of the trained individual.
If so, please take a look here:
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/reviews/index.php?model=56
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php

Wow, those are come ignorant laws. The side by side shotgun has always had an allure for me though.

Back on topic, now that everyone is making evil black .22's they seem less alluring. Maybe I'll build a 10/22 using a Hogue overmold stock and a Tactical Solutions bull or SBX barrel (all in black, of course):

http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=36

If I get the SBX barrel then I'd have to get a suppressor too :supergrin:

I'd rather buy everything off the shelf though than get a 10/22 at Wally World and then toss the stock and barrel.

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 19:02
You may keep those in the safe - unloaded without the trigger lock on.
SxS belongs to this class.
Pump action shotguns as well.
I can deploy double barreled shotgun fast.
Coach gun may be extremely useful tool for home defense in the hands of the trained individual.
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/reviews/index.php?model=56
http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php
We also have a 5 round/per magazine limit with the rifles (sometimes you may come across the legal 10 round magazine as well).
10 rounds limit with the pistols.
For the above reasons (and not only) I do prefer SxS over any rifle.
Have a great day Pat.

I feel its stupid to use a Side by Side shotgun when you could use a pump. If I understand your post correctly. Between posts on the internet I manage to work full time as a cop and compete in USPSA, IDPA and Three gun. Sometimes I even have time to hang out with my friends. I even own a Side by side shotgun and I know how well they can be deployed by a good shooter. However given equal shooters a Semi or a pump will always be faster. You can't assume that if you ever need the gun it will be against just one attacker. Criminals work in groups. A side by side shotgun is just too much of a handicap. For the casual shooter they are even worse. Very slow to reload and only two rounds. The average hit ration for citizens involved in shootings is less than 20%. With a douple you can't afford to miss period.

Me with a Benelli M4 at a LEO shooting competition.
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/videos/?action=view&current=PatShotgun.flv
Not even the best side by side shooter could match or come close to my time on that stage.
Pat

Nestor
11-21-2009, 19:19
I just learned that loading 5-8 shells in the tube magazine while dealing with the criminals entering your apartment in the groups can be accomplished faster than loading two pipes.
I also learned than moving around in tight spaces with the pump shotgun while firing and reloading (especially with one hand) is easier than with the SxS.
Now, thanks for the lesson.
I'm learning all my life and will die stupid anyway.

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 19:45
I just learned that loading 5-8 shells in the tube magazine while dealing with the criminals entering your apartment in the groups can be accomplished faster than loading two pipes.
I also learned than moving around in tight spaces with the pump shotgun while firing and reloading (especially with one hand) is easier than with the SxS.
Now, thanks for the lesson.
I'm learning all my life and will die stupid anyway.

Nestor it takes less time to load 2 rounds into a pump vs 2 rounds into a double. That is why the 1897 pump dominates Cowboy action even though shooters are only allowed to load it with 2 rounds in these competitions. You don't have to wait until the tube is full to shoot. If you thought so then your last assesment of yourself in your post is correct. The advantage with the pump is if you have the time you can keep loading it until full and you will have as much ammunition as if you reloaded the double 3 to 4 times over. Moving around in tight places with a pump is not that difficult and with the pump you can be reloading it while you move and its still instantly available to fire. Not so with the double. If you are reloading it and you get jumped you just have a expensive club in your hands. The pump so long as one is in the chamber will still fire.

Also why are you running around your house with a shotgun or pistol playing one may SWAT team. That is STUPID. Hold up in your bedroom can dial 911 and keep the gun pointed at the door. Make them come to you. Your arguments lack any merit.
Pat

SunsetMan
11-21-2009, 19:50
I just learned that loading 5-8 shells in the tube magazine while dealing with the criminals entering your apartment in the groups can be accomplished faster than loading two pipes.
I also learned than moving around in tight spaces with the pump shotgun while firing and reloading (especially with one hand) is easier than with the SxS.
Now, thanks for the lesson.
I'm learning all my life and will die stupid anyway.

LOL! I can picture those words coming out of your avatar's mouth :supergrin:

(That'd be Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino in case Nestor ever changes his avatar.)

I'd stand by your choice of a side by side backed up by a handgun for home defense even if you didn't have to pull it out of the safe and load it. It is your choice and a side by side is much shorter than an autoloader or pump.

That one link you had with the Shooting Times article showing the tactical side by side made me laugh though. A tactical side by side is just too funny :rofl:

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 19:52
LOL! I can picture those words coming out of your avatar's mouth :supergrin:

(That'd be Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino in case Nestor ever changes his avatar.)

I'd stand by your choice of a side by side backed up by a handgun for home defense even if you didn't have to pull it out of the safe and load it. It is your choice and a side by side is much shorter than an autoloader or pump.

That one link you had with the Shooting Times article showing the tactical side by side made me laugh though. A tactical side by side is just too funny :rofl:

I don't know what is funnier. The fact that a compay is actually trying to make a tactical side by side or the fact some people may be silly enough to buy one.
Pat

Nestor
11-21-2009, 20:00
Nestor it takes less time to load 2 rounds into a pump vs 2 rounds into a double. That is why the 1897 pump dominates Cowboy action even though shooters are only allowed to load it with 2 rounds in these competitions. You don't have to wait until the tube is full to shoot. If you thought so then your last assesment of yourself in your post is correct. The advantage with the pump is if you have the time you can keep loading it until full and you will have as much ammunition as if you reloaded the double 3 to 4 times over. Moving around in tight places with a pump is not that difficult and with the pump you can be reloading it while you move and its still instantly available to fire. Not so with the double. If you are reloading it and you get jumped you just have a expensive club in your hands. The pump so long as one is in the chamber will still fire.

Also why are you running around your house with a shotgun or pistol playing one may SWAT team. That is STUPID. Hold up in your bedroom can dial 911 and keep the gun pointed at the door. Make them come to you. Your arguments lack any merit.
Pat

Again Pat, your statement has no real value in my situation, since You have no idea about the apartment I'm living in and the locations occupied by the family members, so to make it clear - I have to move around, before I will be able to come back to one room.
If this is stupid in your opinion I can live with that...I guess.
For me it easier and faster to load the mentioned two pipes than the tube magazine, but I guess it's also stupid, because...You said so.

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 20:06
Again Pat, your statement has no real value in my situation, since You have no idea about the apartment I'm living in and the locations occupied by the family members, so to make it clear - I have to move around, before I will be able to come back to one room.
If this is stupid in your opinion I can live with that...I guess.
For me it easier and faster to load the mentioned two pipes than the tube magazine, but I guess it's also stupid, because...You said so.

Nestor I am offending you and for that I am sorry. I have no problem with you but rather your choice of guns.

With just a little bit of training and a side saddle on your gun you would be blazing fast at reloading the pump gun. I just can't take any firearm serious for self defense that only holds 2 rounds and is slow to load. I suppose it beats nothing or a sharp stick in the eye. We should start a thread dealing with this in the tactical shot gun forum.
Pat

Nestor
11-21-2009, 20:07
That one link you had with the Shooting Times article showing the tactical side by side made me laugh though. A tactical side by side is just too funny :rofl:

Yeah...the black, evil side by side is funny looking thing - I have to agree.
I posted the link with the hope that someone will read the article, though.
Anyway.
I prefer the classic look in 20 gauge, as posted in the second link.
It's one, sweet, handy shotgun.

Nestor
11-21-2009, 20:10
Nestor I am offending you and for that I am sorry. I have no problem with you but rather your choice of guns.

With just a little bit of training and a side saddle on your gun you would be blazing fast at reloading the pump gun. I just can't take any firearm serious for self defense that only holds 2 rounds and is slow to load. I suppose it beats nothing or a sharp stick in the eye. We should start a thread dealing with this in the tactical shot gun forum.
Pat

You are right - I have to train more.
I will shut up now, as You are also right with the second part :)
BTW - no offense was taken.
I was working few nights in row and I'm tired, so maybe my ego is little bit more sensitive than usual :wavey:

Alaskapopo
11-21-2009, 20:22
You are right - I have to train more.
I will shut up now, as You are also right with the second part :)
BTW - no offense was taken.
I was working few nights in row and I'm tired, so maybe my ego is little bit more sensitive than usual :wavey:

My ego got the best of me too. Stay safe down there.
Pat

SunsetMan
11-21-2009, 20:31
For home defense in a safe neighborhood I think a side by side would be fine, especially if backed up by a handgun. I think you are probably more likely to be struck by lightening than suffer a home invasion if you live in a good neighborhood.

If I lived in a bad neighborhood or were on the offensive then I would choose something else.

I just saw someone pick up a Saiga short barrelled shotgun at the local gun store. Now THAT would be perfect for home defense :supergrin:

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm

Nestor, which is better, the double or single trigger side by sides? I didn't know they made single trigger versions until now.

My apologies to the original poster for the continued hijack.

Nestor
11-21-2009, 22:22
Nestor, which is better, the double or single trigger side by sides? I didn't know they made single trigger versions until now.

My apologies to the original poster for the continued hijack.

Just to answer your question.
It's a personal preference thing mostly as both versions (double vs single trigger) have some cons and pros.
Double trigger main advantage is that You can fire both barrels at once which may deliver the devastating blow both to the BG and your shoulder at the same time.
Usually operating two triggers involves more hand movement.
The lighter the gun, the more I need to use the grip to control movement and the less I can devote to moving rearward with a double triggers.
Personally I like to keep things simple.
The SxS is even less complicated design that the pump action shotgun.
Because of the lack of the receiver it's also shorter, so even if the barrel is 20" the SxS will be shorter than a pump with 18,5" barrel.
One trigger - less to worry about IMO.
After all You can pull the trigger twice in a fast way with the similar effect.
I like the coach gun with one trigger more.
I also have less to worry about, which is good if You are in the stress.
I know that my hands in stress (and especially the fingers) are far from the top shape.
I'm using the S&W model 10 in my job, so I know what I'm talking about :whistling:
I felt that I'd have a better chance of a good workable gun with an the single trigger on that particular gun.
...and I can always do the "New York style" reload, since my G17 is waiting close by.

DJ Niner
11-21-2009, 22:43
Feel free to take this side discussion to the PM system, or start another thread, folks.

Back to the subject of .22 ARs: has anyone heard if S&W has fixed the occasional problem with the extractors/ejectors so no more "bad" guns are getting out of the factory, or is it an ongoing problem? I hear they're taking good care of folks who DO end up with problems, but I'd prefer to get a good egg up-front, even if it meant waiting a bit.

Nestor
11-22-2009, 10:08
I do apologize for the off topic discussion.
I never heard of the problems with the ejectors.
Hopefully mine will be fine.
I will come back with the report as soon as possible.

motorcyclist
11-22-2009, 18:45
Been looking at 22lr's for plinking. And of course my son wants one that looks "tacticool". This is gonna be a Christmas present for him. He can buy his own damn AR15 when he turns 21 and convert that to a 22lr. Went to Academy sports tonight to look. Liked the S&W 15-22. Seemed well made and solid. Nice smooth finish on the molded parts. Opened like an AR and snapped shut tightly. The stock seemed a little flimsy.The Colt was heavier and had a metal reciever. I couldn't open it and niether could the guy behind the counter! I pulled the bolt back and when I pushed the release, nothing happened. Counter guy layed it down on a shelf and said he'd have the guy that knows about these look at it. I did not get a good feeling. While they had 10/22's ($184), they had no SR22. I understand it's a 10/22 in a Nordic made frame. The Smith was $469, the Colt $549 and when they come in I was told the SR22's should be around $525. I'm leaning towards the Smith. I figure buying a 10/22 and tricking it out would run up a $400+ bill quick, so what am I saving?

SCOTTtheBADGER
11-22-2009, 22:22
If you buy the S&W, you will be very pleased with it. I have one, and it is a hoot and a half to shoot. Have the extractor checked, however, that is a weak spot on some of the early M&P 15-22s.

pesticidal
12-18-2009, 15:31
I just received the SW 15-22. Look snice. I'll probably try it out in the range this weekend.

Nestor
12-18-2009, 19:37
I just received the SW 15-22. Look snice. I'll probably try it out in the range this weekend.

Congratulations!
I'm still waiting for mine as RCMP didn't decide yet how to qualify this firearm (restricted or non-restricted :upeyes:).

keninnavarre
12-18-2009, 20:15
My wife, the love of my life, bought me a Tactical Solutions lightweight upper for my birthday last week. I put it on my CMMG lower, and, WOW. Its a great shooter, and with Black Dog mags, it shoots so much like its 5.56 counterpart, that at 50 yards and closer, I feel like Im getting my moneys worth for practice. Upper was about same price as the cheaper .22 dedicated rifles, from PK Firearms, but shoots like my 5.56 rifles, so its worth it to me. I already have few good lowers to use, so thats not a problem for me.
If you own an AR, consider a.22 upper, from Tac Sol, or Spikes. It really is a treat to grab your favorite rifle, and your .22 upper, and head out to the range. It just makes sense, and I think it will make me a better shot with my AR, which is the reason I wanted the .22 option to begin with.
Regards,
Ken

furioso2112
12-18-2009, 22:15
It seems it has been addressed in this forum, but not specifically, so I'll just make sure you're not missing it for lack of specific mention: there is a thread discussing the poor experiences people have been having with the S&W .22s lately.

I have been considering the same question as the OP, and have narrowed into a choice between Spike's and the Tac Sol/BDM dedicated uppers. I suppose I should actually start another thread on the difference between those (asking about it)...so I will.

pesticidal
12-19-2009, 11:12
Just took it out and ran 25 rounds through it. FUN!

Except: it was going ping, ping, ping, then BANG! This was in the chamber:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/22round.jpg

Gallium
12-19-2009, 20:43
What's that Pesti (old eyes cant see fuzzy stuff for crap).

'Drew

DJ Niner
12-19-2009, 23:21
Just took it out and ran 25 rounds through it. FUN!

Except: it was going ping, ping, ping, then BANG! This was in the chamber:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/22round.jpgAny damage to you or the weapon? Brand and type of ammo?
Us lefty long-gun shooters sure don't like to see burst cases.

Hope you're okay; thanks for any info you can provide...

pesticidal
12-20-2009, 06:28
No damage, just noisy. I'm thinking it didn't chamber all the way and fired.

pesticidal
12-20-2009, 06:28
What's that Pesti (old eyes cant see fuzzy stuff for crap).

'Drew

That's the casing form the .22 LR, with the bottom blown out.

pesticidal
12-21-2009, 06:20
I took it to the range yesterday, and with a total of 100 rounds through it, I had (3) of the blown out cases and about (15) stovepipes. Time to call S&W.

Chuck TX
12-21-2009, 10:37
My wife, the love of my life, bought me a Tactical Solutions lightweight upper for my birthday last week. I put it on my CMMG lower, and, WOW. Its a great shooter, and with Black Dog mags, it shoots so much like its 5.56 counterpart, that at 50 yards and closer, I feel like Im getting my moneys worth for practice. Upper was about same price as the cheaper .22 dedicated rifles, from PK Firearms, but shoots like my 5.56 rifles, so its worth it to me. I already have few good lowers to use, so thats not a problem for me.
If you own an AR, consider a.22 upper, from Tac Sol, or Spikes. It really is a treat to grab your favorite rifle, and your .22 upper, and head out to the range. It just makes sense, and I think it will make me a better shot with my AR, which is the reason I wanted the .22 option to begin with.
Regards,
Ken

Indeed. My Dad decided he needed to take my first TacSol AR-22 build so I built myself another one on an extra Spike's lower I had. It's also run great. Like I said before, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/BodhisattvaNosferatu/AK-AR/TacSolAR-22LR.jpg

Nestor
12-21-2009, 13:01
I'm still waiting for my S&W (RCMP can't make any decision on the status of this small carbine) and I'm starting to wonder...maybe I will place the order for the Spike Tactical M4-22 instead.
It's more than twice the price of the S&W, but it looks even better in terms of the M4 platform training...

pesticidal
01-17-2010, 10:11
I sent both of my SW15-22's back to the factory. They came back with a note that they had been updated to the latest specs. I loaded up both mags and ran 50 round sthrough without a hiccup.

I mounted a scope on and headed for the range. After about 30 rounds or so, I had another failure. Made an inspection, put another 10 rounds in. After a couple shots, another failure. When I looked, this is what I saw:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-2.jpg

Looking further, I found that the rim had been blown completely off, and the rest of the casing is still in the barrel:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-1.jpg

Guess who's getting a call tomorrow?

scottMO
01-17-2010, 12:28
I have Spikes upper and love it. I wouldnt hesitate on a Spikes or Tac Sol upper.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff157/scocor83/Scott011-1.jpg

DJ Niner
01-17-2010, 21:19
I sent both of my SW15-22's back to the factory. They came back with a note that they had been updated to the latest specs. I loaded up both mags and ran 50 round sthrough without a hiccup.

I mounted a scope on and headed for the range. After about 30 rounds or so, I had another failure. Made an inspection, put another 10 rounds in. After a couple shots, another failure. When I looked, this is what I saw:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-2.jpg

Looking further, I found that the rim had been blown completely off, and the rest of the casing is still in the barrel:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-1.jpg

Guess who's getting a call tomorrow?* sigh *

I'm getting less and less enthusiastic about the one I have on order. :crying:

What ammo types/brands have you been using? Let me know so I can start with something else when I test mine...

Cruiser702
01-18-2010, 07:53
What ammo types/brands have you been using? Let me know so I can start with something else when I test mine...


Read here (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1107202). :)

pesticidal
01-18-2010, 08:05
The ammo I was using was Winchester Super X, which is on SW's approved list.

sarge
01-18-2010, 08:23
I have been looking at the S&W's, but the more I read about them, it seems like the more problems I see. The local shop has a stack of them and I have been there twice to get one and end up walking out the door. Those pics aren't encouraging me at all.

sgtlmj
01-18-2010, 09:30
2k thru mine so far. Only issues have been from old, dirty ammo.

FLIPPER 348
01-18-2010, 10:30
I feel its stupid to use a Side by Side shotgun when you could use a pump.
Pat

I feel it's stupid to worry about what others use to defend themselves/family. I keep one out at night for home defence, no worries.




I got the S%W, dig it. No issues after 1000 or so rounds other than it does not like Rem golden-bulk. My GSG eats that stuff up though. I don't have an AR but it's fun to have the S&W AR-22 for beer can blasting.


(yes, I know the front sight is backwards!)

SCOTTtheBADGER
01-18-2010, 14:08
I had mine do the exact same thing with Super-X. I no longer trust Super-X, as many of the reports of M&P 15-22 extractors seem to involve Super-X.

Apocalypse_Now
01-18-2010, 21:37
No damage, just noisy. I'm thinking it didn't chamber all the way and fired.



Checka de chamba if things look or sound funny :freak:

DJ Niner
01-18-2010, 22:17
The ammo I was using was Winchester Super X, which is on SW's approved list.Thanks. It may be on THEIR list, but it's off mine, for now.

When you send it back this time, tell them you want a new one instead of a second re-work, and to make up for all the problems, you want them to upgrade you to the new model with the flash suppressor. Worst thing they can say is "no."

thisaway
01-19-2010, 19:46
Dang...after seeing Pesticidal's pics, I feel somewhat glad i decided to go with an AR conversion kit. :faint:

NWoutdoor
01-21-2010, 21:15
I sent both of my SW15-22's back to the factory. They came back with a note that they had been updated to the latest specs. I loaded up both mags and ran 50 round sthrough without a hiccup.

I mounted a scope on and headed for the range. After about 30 rounds or so, I had another failure. Made an inspection, put another 10 rounds in. After a couple shots, another failure. When I looked, this is what I saw:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-2.jpg

Looking further, I found that the rim had been blown completely off, and the rest of the casing is still in the barrel:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/pesticidal/GT/SW-15-22-1.jpg

Guess who's getting a call tomorrow?

So I read this thread the day I came home with my new M&P15-22, two days ago (1/19/2010) and I thought, "wow, that would piss me off"...So today I take off work early, great weather, sun, no wind, and drive my 35 minute trek to the shooting spot.

Load up a mag with 20 rounds and get a few off, stove piped two, and dialed in the sights. I switched to CCI MM and it was flawless for 15 rounds, iron sited at 35 yards and was hitting 3" circle (great for my 47 year old eyes).

Switch back to bulk and about the fourth round I heard the load pop out the side...WTF? Yup, fired before it chambered, or it would not chamber...removed with fingernail...

Then FTE - took a look, extractor was gone...
SAME AS ABOVE...

Great quality here SW:wavey:

I'll stick with my Ruger 10/22 and SR22...

DJ Niner
02-24-2010, 01:27
Well, Pesty, mine arrived yesterday. I guess you know where I'll be this weekend. :wavey:

Hoping it works well, as I really like the way it handles/feels; light as a tactical rimfire feather! :supergrin:

DJ Niner
02-28-2010, 20:24
Mine passed the basic function test with CCI Mini-Mags (no problems) and some Federal bulk-pack (1st mag, no problems; second mag, 4 FTEj, but it was pretty dirty by then). I have enough confidence to start bolting semi-useless accessories on mine. :supergrin:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/476/swmp22camobkgdsideweb.jpg

Can't wait for the next range trip to test the accessories! Will the circle-dot sight on the cheesy QD mount stay sighted-in? Will the flash suppressor held on by tiny setscrews end up flying downrange? Tune in next week to find out! :supergrin:

Kentak
03-03-2010, 19:39
get the S&W. stay far away from the colt.:wavey:

Yeah, I haven't heard great things about the Colt--although that's internet opinion as I haven't shot one. S&W gets pretty good reviews, but some have had extraction problems. If you Google or do a YouTube search, some guy explains a pretty easy fix (bend the extractor slightly).

heliguy
03-04-2010, 21:46
Definitely the S&W MP 15-22. All the same fire controls as an AR and cheap to trick out. Here's mine... PS the extractor problem was fixed on all guns hitting the stores around last Dec...

Lawnboy
04-27-2010, 18:14
I thought the extractor problem was done. Got one NIB 2 weeks ago S&W has it back hopefully fixing it. Enjoyed shooting it like a bolt action.

Lawnboy
05-15-2010, 13:57
Got it back. Worked just like it was supposed to with CCI mini mags. Doesn't like the bulk stuff as much. It's a very cool gun.

Hokie1911
05-15-2010, 17:34
Before.
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/HokiePS7/rifle/mp006.jpg

After.
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/HokiePS7/rifle/mp022-1.jpg

m814
05-22-2010, 15:53
I just took delivery of one. Mine has the threaded barrel with A2 flash hider. I love it. Everything about it. I have fired about a brick through already with no problems. The only thing I noticed is that with the dirty cheap 22 ammo, the mag follower, bolt catch will get gritty and fail to lock back on last round at around 4-500 rounds between cleanings. I cleaned and lubed it with a rag quickly and went back to shooting with no more issues. Again, I love the Smith. I researched all of the dedicated LR platforms and chose it with no regrets. I do want another mag though. My wife will love it, along with my daughter when she gets older. She is only 3 now, I figure another 2 years and she will be ready.

Fire_Medic
05-22-2010, 16:26
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1223322

DJ Niner
05-29-2010, 03:37
Might be old news to some folks, but it looks like S&W finally has the short-body 10-shot mags for the M&P AR-22 on their website. I've been wanting one or two for bench shooting or low prone while hunting.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9919/10shotmag.jpg

Link to S&W's page for this item:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766381_-1_758016_757846_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N

I have no connection to the site or company, other than being a happy customer.


.

pesticidal
05-29-2010, 07:22
Hmmm

http://www.topglock.com/item/389100__Smith__Wesson_Hand_Guns_Pistols_MP15-22P_22LR_25RD_SUPP_.aspx?w=miAvRalTBjM%3d