What Defensive Ammunition for the G30 SF? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Jayzod
10-29-2009, 19:57
So what do you folks shoot when it comes to defensive H.P. ammunition that runs 100% out of your G30 SF.

What I'm talking about is 200+ rounds or more without a failure.

Thanks

HWA GLOCKER
10-29-2009, 22:54
230gr HST's or 230gr Gold Dots :thumbsup:

cole
10-30-2009, 00:10
So what do you folks shoot when it comes to defensive H.P. ammunition that runs 100% out of your G30 SF.

What I'm talking about is 200+ rounds or more without a failure.

Thanks

230gr HST's or 230gr Gold Dots :thumbsup:

Agreed. Rangers, too. Keep it 230gr and you'll be fine. And, function test in your gun.

drc767
10-30-2009, 05:29
230g Rangers, HST's, Speer Gold Dots or DoubleTap Bonded Defense (Gold Dots) have all done well in my G30.

G26S239
10-30-2009, 05:44
Anything that suits you, including +Ps if you want, will work fine in a G30.

04SVT
10-30-2009, 06:38
230gr Speer Gold Dot FTW

beforeobamabans
10-30-2009, 14:49
Anything that suits you, including +Ps if you want, will work fine in a G30.

I've been experimenting with +p lately, and man, do they kick! I shot GS 185+p and GD 200+p and the increase in recoil was impressive as it was disruptive to follow up shots. I'll be restocking with standard 230 gr. BTW, the G30SF handled them all flawlessly.

Jim S.
10-30-2009, 15:35
Because I'm old and came up with 1911's, I have never felt comfortable carrying a gun until it shoots at least 5 or 600 rounds without a failure.
When I got into Glocks I shot all kinds of ammunition out of them and after over 6000 rounds out of my two carry guns (21sf & 36) I have yet to find a brand or weight or type of round that does not shoot well out of a Glock.
Pick one and shoot it. More than likely it will be fine. Any good name brand "self defense" round will be ok.
The benefit of shooting a 45 is the 230g bullet. But be sure to try a lighter round as it has an effect on felt recoil.

beforeobamabans
10-30-2009, 18:15
Because I'm old

Funny, you don't look that old in your picture. :cool:

fsqridah
10-30-2009, 18:22
I'd go 230gr +P Federal HST or 200gr DoubleTap Gold Dots. You might go with 230gr Gold Dots since the .45ACP is a low velocity cartridge to begin with, but with a 3.78" barrel, I'd go with a lighter weight if possible.

CanyonMan
10-30-2009, 20:04
I'm a minority here on GT, but in all my 45acp's, all of them. I use 230gr ball.
Sometimes 230gr Golden Sabers, but 99% ball, and especially in the shorter tubes like my G30 or Colt Defender etc.


Good shooting


CanyonMan

beforeobamabans
10-31-2009, 04:20
I'm a minority here on GT, but in all my 45acp's, all of them. I use 230gr ball.
Sometimes 230gr Golden Sabers, but 99% ball, and especially in the shorter tubes like my G30 or Colt Defender etc.


Good shooting


CanyonMan
Your response begs the question, why with all the good JHP on the market(unless of course your state forces you to).

NEOH212
10-31-2009, 04:29
230 Gold Dot's all the way! :wavey:

Jayzod
10-31-2009, 04:48
230gr HST's or 230gr Gold Dots :thumbsup:

These are my favorite rounds in my G21, but in the G30 they seem to really move the gun around in my hand causing me to reposition my grip after each shot and slows my follow-up shots. I do great with Blazer Brass and WWB.

I have had a few FTE shooting HST and Gold Dots. But I think this was my fault because I just can't seem to get a good grip on this little gun with my big hands.

beforeobamabans
10-31-2009, 04:54
These are my favorite rounds in my G21, but in the G30 they seem to really move the gun around in my hand causing me to reposition my grip after each shot and slows my follow-up shots. I do great with Blazer Brass and WWB.

I have had a few FTE shooting HST and Gold Dots. But I think this was my fault because I just can't seem to get a good grip on this little gun with my big hands.

Have you tried this with Pearce +0 or one of your G21 mags w/A&G?

Jayzod
10-31-2009, 04:55
I'm a minority here on GT, but in all my 45acp's, all of them. I use 230gr ball.
Sometimes 230gr Golden Sabers, but 99% ball, and especially in the shorter tubes like my G30 or Colt Defender etc.


Good shooting


CanyonMan


What brand of 230 gr ball do you use?

Why do you use it "especially" in the shorter tubes like the G30?

As it stands if I carry my G30, FMJ is all I will carry due to FTE using HST and Gold Dot.

I think I like WWB the best.


:wavey:

beforeobamabans
10-31-2009, 04:59
FMJ is all I will carry due to FTE using HST and Gold Dot.
:wavey:
Seriously? Something wrong here. I just put 50 GD 200+p through mine this week, no problem. Never had an FTE with either of my Glocks.

Jayzod
10-31-2009, 05:06
Have you tried this with Pearce +0 or one of your G21 mags w/A&G?


I think that little extender would solve my grip problem, Thanks.

But it looks like it would make my G30 into my G21 with a shorter snout. I think I would just carry my G21 that has been perfect, 100% reliable with all ammo (I think for having a better (bigger) grip).

I was hoping the G30 would work for summer carry and I would continue to carry my G21 in the winter. Guess I have all winter to figure things out...

:wavey:

Jayzod
10-31-2009, 05:09
Seriously? Something wrong here. I just put 50 GD 200+p through mine this week, no problem. Never had an FTE with either of my Glocks.

I just put 50 230gr Gold Dot through my G30 Thursday night and they worked great!

But it was on the 55th round that she FTE. :crying:

O' and when you quoted me about using FMJ you left out the "In my G30". I'll use JHP in all other Glocks just fine. :wavey:

dreis454
10-31-2009, 06:19
Try Gold Dot 230 gr 'short barrel' loads in the 30

G26Okie
10-31-2009, 06:51
I've got 185gr gold dots in my g30 right now, ammunitiontogo.com has them for $27/50.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-45-acp-speer-le-gold-dot-185gr-hp-ammo/cName/45-acp-hollow-point-ammo

You get 50 in the box vs the same price for 20 since it is "LE Duty" OMG!!!

FatBoy
10-31-2009, 11:09
I have never had a round problem in MY G30. I have shot everything from 185+p, 200+p, 230+p, 230 and 185(standard p), in Gold Dots, HSTs, Ranger, Cor-Bon and plain ole ball. IF you can find Speer Short Barrel I'd try that, but pretty much any of the above will work if you do your part.
FWIW the +p's can be a bit snappy, but not all that bad IMHO.

FB

Max1775
10-31-2009, 11:16
Funny, you don't look that old in your picture. :cool:


It's an old picture...:whistling:

CanyonMan
10-31-2009, 13:54
Your response begs the question, why with all the good JHP on the market(unless of course your state forces you to).


Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me. ;)


There ya go. Thats it.
HTH's


EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

Good shooting !


CanyonMan

CanyonMan
10-31-2009, 14:06
What brand of 230 gr ball do you use?

Why do you use it "especially" in the shorter tubes like the G30?

As it stands if I carry my G30, FMJ is all I will carry due to FTE using HST and Gold Dot.

I think I like WWB the best.


:wavey:


I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one. ;)

I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


Good shooting



CanyonMan

NAS T MAG
10-31-2009, 14:28
This from another source:
.45 ACP (occassionally called "11.43x23mm" by some silly Europeans)
The .45 ACP is a recognized manstopper, and there are many excellent loads in this caliber. Some of the best:
- Federal 230 grain Hydrashok JHP (P45HS1): a great load, and my #1 choice. It gives the most stopping power in this potent caliber.
- Federal 185 grain JHP (45C) another top-notch load from Federal. I would choose this round for a compact, short-barrelled .45 like the Colt Officer's ACP or the S&W 4516. It has lighter recoil than the Hydrashok or CCI 200 JHP, and its higher velocity makes it more likely to expand out of a short 3.5" barrel.
- Cor-Bon 185 grain Sierra JHP
- CCI Lawman 200 gr. JHP (3965). a.k.a. the "Inspector" or "Flying Ashtray."
- CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHP (3568). The "Flying Ashtray" in an economical aluminum case. Both of these CCI loads use a wide-mouth hollowpoint bullet that may jam some guns. It is 100% reliable in newer guns like the current production "enhanced" Colt 1911A1, the SIG/Sauer P220, Star M45 Firestar and Megastar, and all Smith & Wesson, Para-Ordnance, and Ruger .45 automatics and the Smith & Wesson Model 625 revolver. (Note well: if you are one of those knuckleheads who install light springs in your gun to get a lighter trigger pull you are asking for trouble. Never use CCI ammo in such a gun, as CCI uses especially hard primers and your hammer might not be able to detonate the round reliably, now that you have monkeyed with it.)
- Remington 185 grain JHP (R45AP2). This is the best choice for older guns that may jam with other hollow-points. I would select this load for the Heckler and Koch P9S, Browning BDA, Springfield Armory, AMT and Thompson M1911A1, Llama, Star PD, etc.
- Cor-Bon and Remington .45+P 185 grain JHP (R45AP6). These are very powerful and hard-kicking rounds best left to the experienced shooter. They are pretty hard on your gun, especially an aluminum-framed pistol like the SIG/Sauer P220 or Colt Lightweight Commander. If you are sufficiently expert to confidently carry the .45+P you certainly don't need my advice on load selection. That being said, these +P rounds are second only to the famed Hydra-shok in stopping power. They really sledgehammer the bad guys down.
Other good .45 ACP loads.
The Winchester Silvertip 185 grain JHP (X45ASHP2), CCI Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber (GS45APB) are all good choices. If you like them, fine, but they have no edge over loads mentioned above. I say stick to the tried and true..

Snapper2
10-31-2009, 15:09
I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one. ;)

I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


Good shooting



CanyonMan


CM, how would you rate the 230gr FN(hornady) or FNEB (remington) to the round nose or ball ammo as far as accuracy and penetration? Thanks for the information. I'm getting some 230gr FNEB bullets and would like to know how it compares. As far as self defense rounds in my G30 I've been loading 185gr GS and 230gr XTPs but I think I might want a mag full of hardball too.:cool:

CanyonMan
10-31-2009, 15:43
CM, how would you rate the 230gr FN(hornady) or FNEB (remington) to the round nose or ball ammo as far as accuracy and penetration? Thanks for the information. I'm getting some 230gr FNEB bullets and would like to know how it compares. As far as self defense rounds in my G30 I've been loading 185gr GS and 230gr XTPs but I think I might want a mag full of hardball too.:cool:

Well to be honest with you, I have no experience with either of the rounds you mentioned here. I do have with the 230gr XTP, and I do like the round in the 45acp. I looked at Hornadys sight, but cout not find a 230gr FN bullet offering. I tried, but if it is there I could not find it. All I saw was the XTP's and the 230gr ball which the (latter) ran only 15FPS faster than the Remington UMC FNEB. I had tolook up the FNEB as well, because I never heard of it. I read the ad for it, and it really did not seem to be anything unique, in the since that it is designed mostly with the indoor range shooter in mind, so as not to allow as much lead into the air in an enclosed shooting range.

I will say this. I do like the idea of a 230g round nose flat point (fmj type), because at least it will still do its jobb ut has a small meplat to it, which i favor very much.

In all my revolver hunting laods 45LC 44mag/sp, 357mag, etc, on occasion I will use a heavy for caliber XTP. By the way I like the XTP Magnum bullet for the reloader, excellent for big game. But as I was about to say, i shoot mostly ALL lead bullets for huntin applications, and they are of the Keith style, to the LBT style, so forth, again, heavy for caliber, and i choose those that have a good meplat to them. Man it is lik a cookie cutter. They will even at 100yds from a 45LC pass completely through Elk, with a 1200/1250 fps heavy bullet, and i favor a BHN of 18/21.

I know i gave info you did not ask for. Sorry. Got carried away there. But I truly don't know a darn thing about your Remmy load. I'd rather see it, and shoot it, et. et. Plus, as I said, i could not find a 45acp XTP FN or FP.

I had some 230gr RNFP FMJ's at one time some years back, and man i cannot remember who made them. Your question here is going to cause me to google it up, and see if i can find some.


Sorry I have not been any help to ya. I reload all my carry rounds, or I use CCI Brass or WWB 230gr FMJ. As I said n other post. I do like the 230gr GS, and the 230gr XTP as well. For me, and JMO, I favor all three of these rounds. In order would be the 230gr ball, then the XTP, then the GS.

I know i said different in my other post above, and 'that was because' i forgot about the XTP, and I went back and "edit it later."


Good shooting



CanyonMan

beforeobamabans
10-31-2009, 16:10
Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me. ;)
CM, thank you for taking the time and care for your indepth response. I found it entertaining and entirely logical. I like a man who knows what he knows from what he's done and will 'stick to his guns' (no pun intended) despite the latest fads. You have my best wishes, Sir. Don't let anything sneak up on you out there in canyonland.

Snapper2
10-31-2009, 16:21
Well to be honest with you, I have no experience with either of the rounds you mentioned here. I do have with the 230gr XTP, and I do like the round in the 45acp. I looked at Hornadys sight, but cout not find a 230gr FN bullet offering. I tried, but if it is there I could not find it. All I saw was the XTP's and the 230gr ball which the (latter) ran only 15FPS faster than the Remington UMC FNEB. I had tolook up the FNEB as well, because I never heard of it. I read the ad for it, and it really did not seem to be anything unique, in the since that it is designed mostly with the indoor range shooter in mind, so as not to allow as much lead into the air in an enclosed shooting range.

I will say this. I do like the idea of a 230g round nose flat point (fmj type), because at least it will still do its jobb ut has a small meplat to it, which i favor very much.

In all my revolver hunting laods 45LC 44mag/sp, 357mag, etc, on occasion I will use a heavy for caliber XTP. By the way I like the XTP Magnum bullet for the reloader, excellent for big game. But as I was about to say, i shoot mostly ALL lead bullets for huntin applications, and they are of the Keith style, to the LBT style, so forth, again, heavy for caliber, and i choose those that have a good meplat to them. Man it is lik a cookie cutter. They will even at 100yds from a 45LC pass completely through Elk, with a 1200/1250 fps heavy bullet, and i favor a BHN of 18/21.

I know i gave info you did not ask for. Sorry. Got carried away there. But I truly don't know a darn thing about your Remmy load. I'd rather see it, and shoot it, et. et. Plus, as I said, i could not find a 45acp XTP FN or FP.

I had some 230gr RNFP FMJ's at one time some years back, and man i cannot remember who made them. Your question here is going to cause me to google it up, and see if i can find some.


Sorry I have not been any help to ya. I reload all my carry rounds, or I use CCI Brass or WWB 230gr FMJ. As I said n other post. I do like the 230gr GS, and the 230gr XTP as well. For me, and JMO, I favor all three of these rounds. In order would be the 230gr ball, then the XTP, then the GS.

I know i said different in my other post above, and 'that was because' i forgot about the XTP, and I went back and "edit it later."


Good shooting



CanyonMan

Thanks for all the good info CM. I can see why you favor the FMJ or hardcast where you live. The only place I've seen the hornady 230gr FP for sale as loaded ammo is Double Tap and Buffalo Bore. Remington has their FNEB bullet in their UMC ammo, I think. I believe Midway,Natchez, and Graffs sale both bullets in the handloading section.

CanyonMan
10-31-2009, 16:23
CM, thank you for taking the time and care for your indepth response. I found it entertaining and entirely logical. I like a man who knows what he knows from what he's done and will 'stick to his guns' (no pun intended) despite the latest fads. You have my best wishes, Sir. Don't let anything sneak up on you out there in canyonland.


You are welcome, and i appreciate the kind words bud.

As for what you wrote (i marked in blue), well if it does, guess what I'll shoot it with...... :supergrin: LOL


Thanks man
Take care


CanyonMan

SIGShooter
10-31-2009, 17:02
230 Gr. Winchester Ranger

OR

230 gr. Winchester White Box FMJ

Those are my choices that I carry on a regular basis.

CanyonMan
10-31-2009, 17:54
Thanks for all the good info CM. I can see why you favor the FMJ or hardcast where you live. The only place I've seen the hornady 230gr FP for sale as loaded ammo is Double Tap and Buffalo Bore. Remington has their FNEB bullet in their UMC ammo, I think. I believe Midway,Natchez, and Graffs sale both bullets in the handloading section.




You are welcome, but I'm afraid I did not contribute much to help you out....

Thanks for the info about Midway,Natchez, and Graffs . Appreciated ! ;)


You stay safe !



CanyonMan

MURRAY
10-31-2009, 18:48
I use 230 non p loads in my 220 and g21 and g30 Ranger T HST and Speer GD.

Jayzod
11-01-2009, 07:00
Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO

CanyonMan

Actually I have to disagree with you on this. Remember my FTE only happen with High power rounds and it shoots the range ammo just fine.

What I was thinking might be my problem is "case swelling". Possibly an out of spec chamber?

It should be noted my G30 SF is new SN: NNN blue lable and only has around 600 rounds through it and of that only 110 were JHP. And for those of you that are thinking "LIMP WRIST" that's not it, been shooting for years (34+) never a problem with any other gun I have shot, and I have shot many.

This is my logic. When I use HST or Gold Dot I am using High/Full power rounds the cases are expanding in the chamber when fired and thus harder to extract from the chamber causing my FTE problems.

I think this is why I don't have the same problems with standard pressure FMJ ammo.

Now I need to get a caliper and do some measurements of my chamber.

If I may be so bold as to ask, what do you people measure on your G30/G30 SF chambers?

Snapper2
11-01-2009, 08:56
Actually I have to disagree with you on this. Remember my FTE only happen with High power rounds and it shoots the range ammo just fine.

What I was thinking might be my problem is "case swelling". .

This is my logic. When I use HST or Gold Dot I am using High/Full power rounds the cases are expanding in the chamber when fired and thus harder to extract from the chamber causing my FTE problems.


Not claiming to have the answer, but dont the cases swell on all rounds,assuming you use a factory barrel? What recoil spring do you use? I use a Lone Wolf barrel for my G30 and cant feed factory hornady xtp (1.230). When I reload for this barrel I have to set the bullet back to 1.200 for all hornady bullets except the round nose fmj. You might want to try Golden Sabers but you shouldnt be having this problem.

CanyonMan
11-01-2009, 10:13
Actually I have to disagree with you on this. Remember my FTE only happen with High power rounds and it shoots the range ammo just fine.

What I was thinking might be my problem is "case swelling". Possibly an out of spec chamber?

It should be noted my G30 SF is new SN: NNN blue lable and only has around 600 rounds through it and of that only 110 were JHP. And for those of you that are thinking "LIMP WRIST" that's not it, been shooting for years (34+) never a problem with any other gun I have shot, and I have shot many.

This is my logic. When I use HST or Gold Dot I am using High/Full power rounds the cases are expanding in the chamber when fired and thus harder to extract from the chamber causing my FTE problems.

I think this is why I don't have the same problems with standard pressure FMJ ammo.

Now I need to get a caliper and do some measurements of my chamber.

If I may be so bold as to ask, what do you people measure on your G30/G30 SF chambers?



Well, my first suggestion still stands. Can't hurt, just to make sure everything is in proper function. Let me say this ok. I suggest this only because I have owned a great deal of Glocks , Had several G30's and do now as well. I reload and have put some loads down the pipe that were far hotter than needed for a 45acp. Just cause I wanted to. Point being, I never once experienced any problems at all. Now, that being said, i always use a Wolff 22# spring and steel rod in all my Glocks of all calibers and size. Also, I will say that if you are dead possitive that there is not a possibly over looked problem somewhere, with the extractor, (even if it does not make since to ya), if you are possitive all is well there, and every where else, then I would (without seeing the gun), say you got 'one tight chamber' for a factory barrel.

I'm not in a place right now where I can measure the chambers on mine, sorry. But i can tell ya that every Glock I got in every caliber and size has a sloppy chamber, and never fails in any way, hot, or weak and wimpy loads, all is well. This does not mean however that 'yours' does not have some chamber issue. I understand , and agree it "might."

How far out of the chamber are the cases coming out on the ones that stick? Part way, not at all, what? Have you measured the cases that "stick" and compared that to the ones that don't? I would do that next.

It does sound weird that the the ball ammo is working fine and the others stick. you may be right about the chamber specs, nothing is perfect, not even glock. If you have not yet measured the ball cases and compared them to the hst etc, try that. Problem there though is that brass does not stay as stable as lead and moves a small tad when hot to cold. May show ya something though. Also, measure the loaded rounds of each. i.e. the ball, and the ones that stick, see what ya get there.

Man I'm just thorwing out to ya what I would do if it were me, (without seeing it for my self). I never thought you were limp wristing, if you know for sure you are not, fine. It does always hurt our pride, but let a friend shoot it and see if it does the same thing. Hey, no harm in that. ;) The gun is new to ya, maybe there is some little quirk in your shooting you are over looking. I been shooting for around 50 years, grew up living on it in about every caliber and gun you can imagine, but there are times I've handed the gun to someone else and said, you try it, it ain't workin for me man... Like I said, not saying it is you man, just saying can't hurt to try all avenues, to hunt down the problem, and make sure you have done all possible to eliminate everything in the world, to get to the "root" of the problem, which just very well may be a out of spec chamber, it sure could be. But i do suggest to at least do all the elimination situations first.

Don't know when I can get back to get a measurment on mine for ya. Perhaps someone else on here with a G30 can do that in the mean time.

Last suggestion. Measure yours, call Glock Monday, or Dan at LWD, and ask them what they think of your measurement.... This (above) would at least cover about all you can do, and you can tell Glock if need be, that you have measured chamber, measured unfired 'and' fired cases for comparision, and that yes, you even let a friend shoot to rule out it ain't you.

Trust me, I have closely known several of the guys at glock for about 14 years. They are friends. They will ask you if you let some one else shoot the gun. (at least they are told to ask you that, and usually do)... At least if they do, you can say 'yes'. This WILL get you closer to getting their more immediate help. Like I said call LWD as well, (probably 'first' actually), and ask for Dan, he is "the armorer there" ask him about your "specs" measurement, and he can tell you what is what, and even measure a few barrels there on the bench as well...

That is my suggestions to ya. FWIW. ;)


Let us know what you find out.




CanyonMan

Iceman cHucK
11-01-2009, 13:04
I agree with Canyonman on his reasons for carrying 230fmj ball, and by the way I'm 62 and a little fixed in my ways! I also have some info on the flat point ball. Hornady used to load a 230fmjfp load that was in the low 800's velocity but no longer does. I have one box left. The bullets are still available, and I got some at MidwayUSA recently. LOADX Ammunition in CA loads a copy of the Hornady 230fmjfp round, I've tried it and like it. You can also get it at Double Tap but it is hotter than the LoadX round. I also like the Hornady 230xtp for its penetration.

CanyonMan
11-01-2009, 15:06
I agree with Canyonman on his reasons for carrying 230fmj ball, and by the way I'm 62 and a little fixed in my ways! I also have some info on the flat point ball. Hornady used to load a 230fmjfp load that was in the low 800's velocity but no longer does. I have one box left. The bullets are still available, and I got some at MidwayUSA recently. LOADX Ammunition in CA loads a copy of the Hornady 230fmjfp round, I've tried it and like it. You can also get it at Double Tap but it is hotter than the LoadX round. I also like the Hornady 230xtp for its penetration.


Iceman cHucK


Hey guy I appreciate the additional info on the fmjfp's, I just have not seen any around in a long while.

Sanpper also suggestedthese guys as well... Midway,Natchez, and Graffs. I'm not to sold on the hotter DT stuff for the 45acp, or a smaller grain than 230.

I need to check these out maybe thins evening or tomorrow and see what is what. I appreciate all the heads up from you both on these.

Sounds like ya best hold on long as ya can to that box you have left. ;)

Yeh, some of us old guys :fred: are kinda like they say about the "old dogs." I am always learning, but sometimes 'not willing' to "do the new tricks..." LOL

Well you stay safe, and good shooting to ya, and thanks again.


CanyonMan

Jayzod
11-02-2009, 06:15
Well, my first suggestion still stands. Can't hurt, just to make sure everything is in proper function. Let me say this ok. I suggest this only because I have owned a great deal of Glocks , Had several G30's and do now as well. I reload and have put some loads down the pipe that were far hotter than needed for a 45acp. Just cause I wanted to. Point being, I never once experienced any problems at all. Now, that being said, i always use a Wolff 22# spring and steel rod in all my Glocks of all calibers and size. Also, I will say that if you are dead possitive that there is not a possibly over looked problem somewhere, with the extractor, (even if it does not make since to ya), if you are possitive all is well there, and every where else, then I would (without seeing the gun), say you got 'one tight chamber' for a factory barrel.

I'm not in a place right now where I can measure the chambers on mine, sorry. But i can tell ya that every Glock I got in every caliber and size has a sloppy chamber, and never fails in any way, hot, or weak and wimpy loads, all is well. This does not mean however that 'yours' does not have some chamber issue. I understand , and agree it "might."

How far out of the chamber are the cases coming out on the ones that stick? Part way, not at all, what? Have you measured the cases that "stick" and compared that to the ones that don't? I would do that next.

It does sound weird that the the ball ammo is working fine and the others stick. you may be right about the chamber specs, nothing is perfect, not even glock. If you have not yet measured the ball cases and compared them to the hst etc, try that. Problem there though is that brass does not stay as stable as lead and moves a small tad when hot to cold. May show ya something though. Also, measure the loaded rounds of each. i.e. the ball, and the ones that stick, see what ya get there.

Man I'm just thorwing out to ya what I would do if it were me, (without seeing it for my self). I never thought you were limp wristing, if you know for sure you are not, fine. It does always hurt our pride, but let a friend shoot it and see if it does the same thing. Hey, no harm in that. ;) The gun is new to ya, maybe there is some little quirk in your shooting you are over looking. I been shooting for around 50 years, grew up living on it in about every caliber and gun you can imagine, but there are times I've handed the gun to someone else and said, you try it, it ain't workin for me man... Like I said, not saying it is you man, just saying can't hurt to try all avenues, to hunt down the problem, and make sure you have done all possible to eliminate everything in the world, to get to the "root" of the problem, which just very well may be a out of spec chamber, it sure could be. But i do suggest to at least do all the elimination situations first.

Don't know when I can get back to get a measurment on mine for ya. Perhaps someone else on here with a G30 can do that in the mean time.

Last suggestion. Measure yours, call Glock Monday, or Dan at LWD, and ask them what they think of your measurement.... This (above) would at least cover about all you can do, and you can tell Glock if need be, that you have measured chamber, measured unfired 'and' fired cases for comparision, and that yes, you even let a friend shoot to rule out it ain't you.

Trust me, I have closely known several of the guys at glock for about 14 years. They are friends. They will ask you if you let some one else shoot the gun. (at least they are told to ask you that, and usually do)... At least if they do, you can say 'yes'. This WILL get you closer to getting their more immediate help. Like I said call LWD as well, (probably 'first' actually), and ask for Dan, he is "the armorer there" ask him about your "specs" measurement, and he can tell you what is what, and even measure a few barrels there on the bench as well...

That is my suggestions to ya. FWIW. ;)


Let us know what you find out.




CanyonMan

Thank you Sir for all the information you have provided I do appreciate it. :wavey:

Okay I took the gun (G30 SF) apart last night and compared it to my flawless trusty G21 SF. Did my best to measure what I could.

The only difference I could see was in three places (other than the obvious size difference between the 2 guns and the recoil springs) first being the "ejector" it is sitting about 1.5mm more "forward" on the G30 than the G21 and had a shinny buffing to the top side of it but no chips, bends or other signs or damage.

The second area of difference was the G30 shows the notorious gouge on the top flat of the trigger bar. But from what I understand this causes failure to return to battery problems of which at this point I don't seem to have.

Lastly the final area of difference was the barrel. The first thing I noticed was the G30's barrel is a dull dark gray color and not the nice deep black of the G21's. Then I noticed that on the G30's barrel the spot where the recoil spring sits is much less pronounced and so to are all the groves where the barrel rides when it's ejecting the rounds.

Anyway I plan to get some more range time in soon and try a new HP out I'm thinking Remington GS.

Thanks to everyone who as tried to help!

CanyonMan
11-02-2009, 09:28
Thank you Sir for all the information you have provided I do appreciate it. :wavey:

Okay I took the gun (G30 SF) apart last night and compared it to my flawless trusty G21 SF. Did my best to measure what I could.

The only difference I could see was in three places (other than the obvious size difference between the 2 guns and the recoil springs) first being the "ejector" it is sitting about 1.5mm more "forward" on the G30 than the G21 and had a shinny buffing to the top side of it but no chips, bends or other signs or damage.

The second area of difference was the G30 shows the notorious gouge on the top flat of the trigger bar. But from what I understand this causes failure to return to battery problems of which at this point I don't seem to have.

Lastly the final area of difference was the barrel. The first thing I noticed was the G30's barrel is a dull dark gray color and not the nice deep black of the G21's. Then I noticed that on the G30's barrel the spot where the recoil spring sits is much less pronounced and so to are all the groves where the barrel rides when it's ejecting the rounds.

Anyway I plan to get some more range time in soon and try a new HP out I'm thinking Remington GS.

Thanks to everyone who as tried to help!




Well, I'm glad you got to look a few things over at least. I got just a second or two here right quick.. It's great that you are going to try the GS and see how they work. It would not matter to me if the GS worked or not though. They should all work, and work well. It is real hard (as you know) without seeing the gun and shoting it, to diagnose the situation "further than" what i have already suggested to you. I would measure those empty cases, the range ammo, and the JHP stuff, and do it with the fired, and the unfired. Measure your barrel chamber area as well.

I just went and dug some suff out of the safe. I took 'two" of my G30's popped the barrels out, and i put the calipers dead center of the chamber and half way in. They both, (at least where I measured them), were 0582


The grooves in the seat where the rear end of the recoil spring/rod rides is thinner than your G21, because look at the difference in the back, (or the nail head), of the rods on each. On the G21 you have the thick black plastic rod (nail head), and it needs a deeper cup to sit in. On the G30the rear (or nail head), end of the rod is as thin as paper almost... This is why the 'cup difference' in the two barrels. Lay that to rest.


I would call Dan at Lone Wolf Distdributors, and see what the spec are for his barrels. Compare my "2" to his, and yours, and see where you land, "before" you go to the range..... I have a new G20 that has the 'gray finish barrel' like yours. It is super sloppy 'compared to' my other G20 barrels, and is not as good a shooter as the other Glock 10mm's I own.

Please take no offence. I know you been shooting a long time, and I am sure you are very capable. But, let a friend or someone else shot that thing with the JHP's just to rule that out. Man, things happen to the best of shooters..... ;)

Without seeing the gun and ammo, we need to get some measurments on those fired and unfired cases, and the mesurment of the chamber where i measured my two, and talk with Dan at LW, and see what his specs to, if all seems normal there.... I would let a friend that IYO shoots very well, take a crack at it, and not be embarrassed about that . If it works great for him, you got your answer the quick and easy way...

If it does the same thing for him as it does for you, Then I would call Glock, ask for Fred, and tell him the whole story and go from there.... This is if your ball ammo cases measure the same as your JHP cases, fired/unfired, (at least within true reason), and your barrel chamber specs seem to match mine and (i would call Dan/his), and if a friend has had the same problem as well. If all this has been done and it still don't work, call glock. There may be something in that chamber spec that is not being caught by your measurments, "even if" they seem to line up with mine and Dan's... I've seen stranger things happen man!

This is the best i can suggest to ya. But i would at least try all this "before i called glock." You'll at least have done your best in it ALL, to have weeded out the problem/s, before you call them and here them say... "Send it in." Because you won't see it more than likely for 4/6 weeks or so.

I stand to be corrected. I've been corrected many times before. :whistling: It does sound like a out of spec chamber, BUT, it also does sound like ammo, and does sound like ( I'm sorry) shooter related issues. And shooter related would truly be my last guess, but try and see.

So ya just don't feel bad here. My brother bought two Kimber 1911's 45acp A Gov model 5" barrel, and a compact, 3" barrel about the size of the G30 (the gun is), well he shot great with the 5" and had jams an fits withe 3" and is a very good shooter, and been doing it a loooong time. I told him it was him, he did not like that, and kept buying ammo, and kept having problems. He sent it to Kimber. They could not find a thing wrong with it and sent it back. I worked with him "over the phone about his grip." Humiliated, and PO'd at me, he did what i said, and it never happened again. Shoots great, and he is happy and could not belive he was tweaking it just a tad different that the "full size gun."

Again, it could be ANY one of the things we named above, and probably IS NOT YOU. But, if you go through all these steps, all of them, and it still won't work, at least you'll know it needs to go back, and you got something screwy goin on (probably in the chamber).

Well, Amigo. Good luck, keep us in the loop.
Maybe someone else on here has more wisdom than me on this, and could better help ya. This is just how I would attack the situation if it were me... ;) hang in there.


CanyonMan

whoever
01-16-2010, 12:02
For range shooting, whatever 230gr ball I can get economically. For daily carry, I only ever run Winchester Ranger RA45T 230gr +P loads

mikegun
01-16-2010, 16:04
Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me. ;)


There ya go. Thats it.
HTH's


EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

Good shooting !


CanyonMan

In the some 28yrs of police work i retired from i have seen a lot of bad guys take dirt flops from getting shot with hard ball 45 auto bullets, so i must agre with you, the internal damage from these slow moving bullets is devestating as noticed in the autopsy room, with far less damage and less penn. from 45 JHP,but just as dead, the hard ball ammo in 45 seems to work far better then hard ball in any other caliber i have observed.........as he states it is a bone breaking round and one cannot argue with that....Just my opinion...I dont hesitate to carry hard ball ammo in my Kimber 1911s, as to brand i pay little attention..

CanyonMan
01-16-2010, 18:22
In the some 28yrs of police work i retired from i have seen a lot of bad guys take dirt flops from getting shot with hard ball 45 auto bullets, so i must agre with you, the internal damage from these slow moving bullets is devestating as noticed in the autopsy room, with far less damage and less penn. from 45 JHP,but just as dead, the hard ball ammo in 45 seems to work far better then hard ball in any other caliber i have observed.........as he states it is a bone breaking round and one cannot argue with that....Just my opinion...I dont hesitate to carry hard ball ammo in my Kimber 1911s, as to brand i pay little attention..



Yep, your right about brand. it really does not matter to much in my experience with them as to wether they are WWB or CCI Brass 230gr. I do want to try and find some 230gr RNFP's though. I truly like the idea of the meplat or flatter nose profile. But until then the regular ball will, and has been, just fine... ;)


Good shooting
Stay safe



CanyonMan

tuica
02-02-2010, 18:00
G36 - Gold Dot, Hornady XTP, Winchester PDX Bonded, Rem. Golden Saber - all JHP's, no failures. Good Luck

RedsoxFan4Lyfe
02-03-2010, 07:03
Well the only answer i got for ya is this. 230gr ball has worked very well through WW1, WW2, Korea, Nam, and even during the days of all the "gangster wars" here in the states. Next, I use it because it does not clog with clothes and bone or anything, and it penetrates like crazy after busting bones and it still gets where it needs to go, namely, the vitals.

Next, I use it because 'normally' people have up their hands, arms, or are at a strange angle when being shot, and the 230gr ball will go through an arm (lets say), and still have plenty of punch left to get to the body, and a 'better chance' again, to reach the vitals. Next, because it has a round nose that truly plows through and does bust bone, and is not slowed down by rapid expansion, or a clogged nose and thus still hindering it from getting maximum penetration..

Next, because i have never found a hollow point i trust out of the 45acp (especially shorter barrels), to do what I just explained, except, I do like 230gr GD, and 230gr GS, and 230gr XTP. I would favor the XTP, first then the GS, because it acts more like ball in humans, and does not open up as much. You will also find if you run a test with a hind quarter from a steer, and cover it with some guts, assorted organs, and tape some leather jacket on it, and get back a few steps and shoot with your favorite hollow point, and then with a 230gr FMJ (I use the CCI Brass brand, good old WWB will work), you will find your HP clogged to heck, and therfore lost penetration, You will find the ball went through and kicked butt and busted bones went through all the media, and did some nasty damage.

Next, short tubes like the G30 and Colt Defender etc. barely have 2" on barrel to actually travel through, and there is just not enough there for a HP to really do what we takled about above, and get to the vitals, much less have the 'classic mushroom jello block look" to it. That is not real world. The 5" does ad a little flavor, but not that much either in this caliber we are talking about.

Now begining to close here: This generally where I start losing folks if they have stuck it out this far..... But, I do not use ball in 9mm, 40 s&w, or 10mm
for the obvious reason that they are not heavy/big/slow, as compared to the 45acp. The latter(45acp) is what I carry 98/99% of the time. if not I'd say 1% 10mm, 200gr XTP, 1% 357mag revolver 124gr JHP.

It is fun to shoot water jugs, and wet packs, and all kinds of propane tanks, and all that stuff that we ALL like to do, and it gives us at least some small idea of things, but it is a small idea. Things do not work the same way, where you have clothes, strange angles, an arm up in the way, flesh, muscle, grissle, bone, solid and hollow organs to go through, and get to some vital spot like the heart, or CNS etc.



Next. Not to be smart. I use them cause I am a 58 year old dude set in my ways, and that 230gr ball is what i like, and 'know' it works for me. ;)


There ya go. Thats it.
HTH's


EDIT NOTE***** I forgot to add in my list above for the 45acp I do like the 230gr XTP as well. It too, plows through real well...

Good shooting !


CanyonMan


Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.

CanyonMan
02-03-2010, 09:09
Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.



Seems like there are far more guys out there using ball ammo in there 45's than I thought. It is what I have run for ever it seems and has served me well. Like you, I have no problems sleeping at night with it there, or going to town with it either... ;)


Stay safe
Good shooting



CanyonMan

Iceman cHucK
02-03-2010, 09:51
Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.

Well said. It is very frustrating and expensive to try and find the latest magic bullet to test! I just keep going back to 230ball because I know I can trust it for consistent reliability and adequate performance. I have an FNP45 pistol that is my favorite but it has choked on some hp and +P ammo. I go back to FedAE 230ball and it works fine. Since I like this pistol soo much, I'm about ready to dump all my fancy hollowpoints and standardize on ball. This should eliminate all my stress and anxiety trying to get the latest greatest magic bullet to work , no less how much money it has lifted from my wallet! We have trusted 230Ball with our soldiers lives for many years and it wasn't replaced by the 9mm for lack of performance. Anybody else feel this way?

CanyonMan
02-03-2010, 18:51
Well said. It is very frustrating and expensive to try and find the latest magic bullet to test! I just keep going back to 230ball because I know I can trust it for consistent reliability and adequate performance. I have an FNP45 pistol that is my favorite but it has choked on some hp and +P ammo. I go back to FedAE 230ball and it works fine. Since I like this pistol soo much, I'm about ready to dump all my fancy hollowpoints and standardize on ball. This should eliminate all my stress and anxiety trying to get the latest greatest magic bullet to work , no less how much money it has lifted from my wallet! We have trusted 230Ball with our soldiers lives for many years and it wasn't replaced by the 9mm for lack of performance. Anybody else feel this way?



Now watch out Amigo. Talk like this can brand you as a traitor ! :supergrin:
Yes some one else agrees with you. I for one FWIW to ya, and I am surprised to see so many others on this thread and on some of ther threads on the 1911 club as well, saying the same thing. Those that have not used it, or needed to, ( thank goodness), I am very happy for them, and hope they never do need to use their weapon of choice. But the 230gr, ball ammo in the 45acp, (is NO magic bullet for big studs that think their cool), "as those who "oppose" all this 230gr 45acp ball ammo talk usually reply... It is simply a round that as a good deal of us on this thread have said, and 'some' of us "know," it has worked, and does work still, very well.

I am not selling it, so matters not to me what folks use. Just know what experience and years and old age has shown me.

Yep, I "feel this way." As 'you' ask. :wavey:



Stay safe Hombre
"buenas noches nos de' Dios"



CanyonMan

CanyonMan
02-03-2010, 19:17
Im 31 and I agree with you. I will use a good HP load, but they are simply too expensive to practice with. I dont have the cash to test out 300+ rounds of a HP load. That being said, it has been my experience that if a gun is going to choke on a certain HP load, it will do so in the first mag or two.

I usually run a good HP in the chamber and ball under it. I know where ball is going to hit with my eyes closed out of my 1911's. 230gr ball WORKS, there are TWO World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and a ton of smaller conflicts that tell us that if you do your part, then .45 230gr ball will drop the POS where they stand.

Im not opposed to using good HP ammo, but I have no problems sleeping at night running ball either. I realize that HP ammo is better on many fronts. I just feel that ball is fine too, and I can actually afford to practice with it.

I carry a Colt Officers model, so I doubt most HP would do well out the shorter barrel anyway.




Hey guy. Let me just squeeze this in ok. I would not own a gun that won't digest "everything or anything" I shove in it. That is NOT the reason I use 230gr ball in my 45's. I use them because of all the things I have said in the above post...... ;)


What I highlighted in blue above... Amen ! I agree with you, and been there and done that. They work. You had a well worded post. ;)


Stay safe amigo
Good shooting.



Canyonman

dreis454
02-03-2010, 19:18
ya know CanyonMan.....when ever I read any of your posts (which I really enjoy & heed your knowledge) I can't help hearing the actor 'Sam Elliot' reading it to me.

CanyonMan
02-03-2010, 20:41
Deleted



CanyonMan

swannick
02-14-2010, 21:58
I already wrote a post here on this thread, to another guy explaining "why i use the 230gr ball". I'll let ya read that one. ;)

I use CCI Brass 230gr ball, or WWB 230gr ball. I do not use ball because HP's won't feed. I have never owned a gun, that a recall, that would not rap through GD's, GS's XTP's you name it. Never a problem with the fte. Using HST, GD, whatever, should not have any bearing on FTE. You need to take a look at the gun, i.e. the extractor and the ejector etc, etc.. IMO


Good shooting
\




CanyonMan


The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck

CanyonMan
02-15-2010, 09:19
The only problem with your statements is this.....that ball ammo has a real good possibility of doing exactly what you say and then going through the body and into someone else (innocent bystander) not to mention 1 or 2 walls and into someone unintended. You can carry what you like but if you shoot the wrong person, you'll have more legal problems on your hands. Good luck


Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be. ;)



Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



CanyonMan

den888
02-16-2010, 23:38
For .45 ACP, I use 230 gr FMJ WWB or Federal, it has been military proven as a good SD round.

N/Apower
02-17-2010, 00:06
Well, I tell ya. If you shoot the 'wrong person,' as you say, with any ammo your in trouble. The over penetration from a 45acp 230gr ball round is blown so far out of proportion from internet ramblings it is incredible to say the least. Folks tend to pass along what they heard some where else, or could be, might, maybe, ought to's.

Man you have placed in your mind this 875 fps round like it was on steroids !

Going through the BG then some one else, then passing through a wall or two. You need to rethink this. It is NOT realistic.

It is rare for 45acp to pass through a COM shot, if it does, it is equally as rare for it to put down some one else if it struck them, much less go on through a wall or two.

It will however remain unplugged as the conventional JHP does NOT, and will not loose penetration if having to go through an arm before it reaches the torso, and still get to the vitals. It will, have the needed penetration to be used with confidence on a quartering shot as well, or to break a hip, a leg. It will smash and plow through. If I am defending my life, I want to make all the trouble for the BG as possible, and smah and break up all I can. The worry of OP with the 45acp 230gr ball at 850/875/ fps, is not a concern to me, because I know it is very rare and is NOT the threat that internet ballistic jockeys have made it out to be. ;)


I'll stick with what I KNOW works, (let the reader understand), and gets where it needs to go. Next to this, a 230gr XTP is 2nd on the list for me. For it too, is a penetrating fool.

Fast opening shallow penetrating rounds abound on the market today, and it seems that most everyone is jumping on them by the wagon loads, because they saw them open up like a parachute in a block of gelatin, or a water jug... This thinking and testing is absolutely dangerous to judge a SD round by. Fun to shoot, but completely lacks one important ingredient.. Reality.

Because a bullet "looks cool," or opens like a Saturday morning flap jack in a pan, after being shot into water or jello means nothing, except that it will open up picture perfect in a water jug and jello. Nothing more.

I will not sacrifice penetration for some rapid expanding new bullet on the market that will not do in a human what the marketing industry shows the public it will do in a gelatin block or water jug... This makes no sense at all to me.

The flip side of this for me in closing here is this. Although I am not afraid to use a FMJ in a 9mm or a 357sig, or a 40s&w, or a 10mm, I would not use them in town if I had a choice, because of the obvious. Here we have a small diameter bullet moving a 1050 to 1300 + fps (through out these calibers), and in this case you can now be concerned about some OP. But in the 45acp 230 ball at just over 800fps. This has not been an issue in my experience, nor a concern for me, (again, let the reader understand) nor should it be for those who want to use this load in the 45acp.


Good shooting
stay safe



CanyonMan

The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".

CanyonMan
02-17-2010, 12:40
The .45 and 9mm penetrate similarly in gelatin. NYPD suffered quite a few shoot-throughs. Several deaths were caused. This was lessened when they switched the the 124gr +P Gold Dot.

I have read at least one reliable story where a .45ACP FMJ round used in Iraq by a special unit of some sort penetrated the assailant during a house-clearing and continued to impact and break the leg of another team-member.

Overpenetration with FMJ ammunition is indeed "real".


So is OP real with JHP's if hit in the guts.


Lets understand something though amigo. Most all of these OP stories are people who were shot in the bowles (aka guts). This can lead to possible OP on any weapon with any type bullet. JHP or FMJ. ;)

Most of the rest of these OP stories are from the internet guru's.

Can OP's happen yes. I know that. But I would not use FMJ in a 9mil. (given a choice in town), I do use them however in the 45acp. There IS a difference here between the two calibers. Small Fast and zippy, vs. slow and lumbering.

NYPD had the shoot through's with FMJ 9mils. Not with the 45acp.


Good shooting



CanyonMan