What would this incident do to law abiding citizens who has PTCFORs? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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PMMA97
11-03-2009, 04:36
Motorist nearly hits TV host’s car, then waves gun

By Julie M. Aurelio
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 14:47:00 11/03/2009

Filed Under: Accidents (general), Media, Police

MANILA, Philippines – An ABS-CBN newscaster has alleged that a hot-headed driver nearly sideswiped her car along Visayas Ave. in Quezon City and even pointed a gun at her while ordering her to get out.

In a report with the Quezon City Police District’s Criminal Investigation and Detection Unit, anchor Cheryl Cosim said the driver of a black car allegedly pointed his gun at her and her companions.

Police Officer 2 Loreto Tigno, case investigator, said the male driver, estimated to be around 40 to 45 years old, was driving a black Nissan Cefiro with plate number XPY 497 at around 4:30 p.m. Monday.

“We’re looking at a traffic altercation here because the driver almost sideswiped Cosim’s vehicle while they were both cruising along Congressional Ave,” he said in an interview on Tuesday.

Cosim, 35 and a resident of 10 Windgate Villas along Visayas Ave, was about to go home when the traffic altercation happened.

Initial investigation showed that Cosim, together with John and Manuel Alvarez and Christian Bugayong were aboard their white Mitsubishi Outlander with plate number NZN 484 along Congressional Ave when they came across the male driver.

Cosim’s vehicle was then being driven by a certain Joselito Alvarez.

The news anchor told police that the black sedan nearly sideswiped their car, and upon reaching the corner of Congressional and Visayas Ave, the man suddenly blocked their path.

The driver allegedly alighted from his car and pointed his handgun at the vehicle’s terrified passengers as he beckoned Cosim et al to get out of their vehicle.

“They [Cosim et al] were reportedly unable to hear what the man was saying, only that his gun was pointed at them and that he was apparently telling them to get off,” Tigno said.

The driver, who was wearing a white shirt and black pants, later boarded his car and sped off, leaving the news anchor to report the incident to the QCPD CIDU.

Chief Inspector Benjamin Elenzano Jr, homicide section head, said his men traced the black Nissan Cefiro to a male owner living in Project 6 in Quezon City, based on records from the Land Transportation Office.

But he said they would pay the owner a visit to determine if he was indeed the gun-toting driver involved in the traffic altercation on Monday afternoon.

“We will also check if the owner has a licensed gun. If Cosim’s description matches, we will recommend that the man’s firearms license and permit to carry be revoked,” Elenzano said.

Police are preparing a possible complaint of grave threats against the driver of the black Nissan Cefiro with whom Cosim had an encounter.

Elenzano added that should they discover that the gun was unlicensed, they would also file another complaint of illegal possession of firearms against the driver.

choi_tan2000
11-03-2009, 05:44
for sure bro magegeneralize nanaman ang mga may ptc and damay pati resposible gun owners like us.

even if people know that this one is not a esposible owner of FA. why?
7 of his 7 guns are expired, definitely he has no PTC FOR but he stil carry a gun. so hes not one of us. pero some people will still look after every gun owners and ptc for holders.

darth board
11-03-2009, 05:55
knee jerk reaction na naman yan pag nagkataon, siyempre titirahin na naman sa mga radio and tv ang gun ownership lalo na yung pag issue ng ptc.

choi_tan2000
11-03-2009, 06:37
knee jerk reaction na naman yan pag nagkataon, siyempre titirahin na naman sa mga radio and tv ang gun ownership lalo na yung pag issue ng ptc.

tama ka dyan bro kanina bumibira na si karen davila, buti andun si partner nya mdyo ok nmn discussion. but for sure sasamantalahin nnman ito ng mga anti gun na parang di nkikita gaanu kagulo bansa natin thats why most pinoys wanted or apply for ptc for

Young Once
11-03-2009, 07:03
The jerk had no PTC and his license for all seven of his FA's were expired.

Allegra
11-03-2009, 07:07
35 na pala si cheryl Cosim

9MX
11-03-2009, 07:46
35 na pala si cheryl Cosim


tamis anghang..sinilverswan!:supergrin:

ppts799
11-03-2009, 07:58
ang tapang naman to write down even their plate numbers AND home address ...

edtf
11-03-2009, 08:09
ang tapang naman to write down even their plate numbers AND home address ...

YUP I noticed that too - both parties pa :wow:

vega
11-03-2009, 09:01
Am I missing something??? Or some threads were removed?

9MX
11-03-2009, 09:22
nope, you're not missing anything.

i heard about this incident at dzmm pasade 630, karen davila was already generalizing PTCFOR holders:

bakit daw natin kailangan, eh may pulis naman daw (meron nga, kulang naman sa bilang)
ang mga may dala ng baril, mas madalas sa pang-aabuso nauuwi (kinontra siya ni vic lima dito)
kailan daw nagkaroon ng incident na naidefend ng ptcfor ang sarili niya against holduppers (haller, madami na kayang ganito, ayaw ni pareng sonny parsons ng ganyan, baka gusto niyang makantahan ng "Katawan")

i guess the perception of reality varies from person to person:dunno:

Cody Jarrett
11-03-2009, 10:54
Motorist nearly hits TV host’s car, then waves gun

By Julie M. Aurelio
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 14:47:00 11/03/2009

Filed Under: Accidents (general), Media, Police

MANILA, Philippines – An ABS-CBN newscaster has alleged that a hot-headed driver nearly sideswiped her car along Visayas Ave. in Quezon City and even pointed a gun at her while ordering her to get out.

In a report with the Quezon City Police District’s Criminal Investigation and Detection Unit, anchor Cheryl Cosim said the driver of a black car allegedly pointed his gun at her and her companions.

Police Officer 2 Loreto Tigno, case investigator, said the male driver, estimated to be around 40 to 45 years old, was driving a black Nissan Cefiro with plate number XPY 497 at around 4:30 p.m. Monday.

“We’re looking at a traffic altercation here because the driver almost sideswiped Cosim’s vehicle while they were both cruising along Congressional Ave,” he said in an interview on Tuesday.

Cosim, 35 and a resident of 10 Windgate Villas along Visayas Ave, was about to go home when the traffic altercation happened.

Initial investigation showed that Cosim, together with John and Manuel Alvarez and Christian Bugayong were aboard their white Mitsubishi Outlander with plate number NZN 484 along Congressional Ave when they came across the male driver.

Cosim’s vehicle was then being driven by a certain Joselito Alvarez.

The news anchor told police that the black sedan nearly sideswiped their car, and upon reaching the corner of Congressional and Visayas Ave, the man suddenly blocked their path.

The driver allegedly alighted from his car and pointed his handgun at the vehicle’s terrified passengers as he beckoned Cosim et al to get out of their vehicle.

“They [Cosim et al] were reportedly unable to hear what the man was saying, only that his gun was pointed at them and that he was apparently telling them to get off,” Tigno said.

The driver, who was wearing a white shirt and black pants, later boarded his car and sped off, leaving the news anchor to report the incident to the QCPD CIDU.

Chief Inspector Benjamin Elenzano Jr, homicide section head, said his men traced the black Nissan Cefiro to a male owner living in Project 6 in Quezon City, based on records from the Land Transportation Office.

But he said they would pay the owner a visit to determine if he was indeed the gun-toting driver involved in the traffic altercation on Monday afternoon.

“We will also check if the owner has a licensed gun. If Cosim’s description matches, we will recommend that the man’s firearms license and permit to carry be revoked,” Elenzano said.

Police are preparing a possible complaint of grave threats against the driver of the black Nissan Cefiro with whom Cosim had an encounter.

Elenzano added that should they discover that the gun was unlicensed, they would also file another complaint of illegal possession of firearms against the driver.
Someone should tell the Brady campaign that the Philipines isn't too different from how our LEO would handle such an event. They're always toting stats about other countries lack of handguns.

g17green
11-03-2009, 11:23
nope, you're not missing anything.

i heard about this incident at dzmm pasade 630, karen davila was already generalizing PTCFOR holders:

bakit daw natin kailangan, eh may pulis naman daw (meron nga, kulang naman sa bilang)
ang mga may dala ng baril, mas madalas sa pang-aabuso nauuwi (kinontra siya ni vic lima dito)
kailan daw nagkaroon ng incident na naidefend ng ptcfor ang sarili niya against holduppers (haller, madami na kayang ganito, ayaw ni pareng sonny parsons ng ganyan, baka gusto niyang makantahan ng "Katawan")

i guess the perception of reality varies from person to person:dunno:



hi fellow bog's let me share my experience neto lang last Nov1 sa cemetery.
streets inside the cemetery has one side parking ang medyo masikip ang daan dahil makipot lang ang daanan. so syempre dahan dahan ka lang. sa kalagitnaan ng daan palabas ng cemeteryo a guy with a motorcycle parked on the other side of the street. Ika nga eh sya lang ang naka double park at no one can possibly pass kasi nakaharang siya. Napakamalas ko naman at ako pa tong naunang dumaan sa street exit na to. as i was waving him the sign na daraan ako, he signalled the sign impossible. like waving his hand na parang if you would interpret it eh "wala" so to make things short bumaba ako and ask him "kanino ba tong motor" sinagot ako ng "kanya daw!" so i asked him kung pwede paki tabi at daanan eto. He said "anung gusto mong gawin ko paliparin eto!".
If KAREN DAVILA would say na may mga pulis naman criticizing mga PTCFOR eh para atang mali dahil FULL FORCE ang PNP sa lugar namin pero nagipon ipon sa entrance (cguro nagtratrafic), sa meryendahan at mga magkakasamang nagkwekwentuhan. But never napwestuhan ang only ONE way na exit. If any person in my situatution siguro talgang mag iinit ang ulo.!!!
I have my PTCFOR but never made any effort para gulatin, or manakot kahit pa ganung klase ng tao ang makaharap mo. And eto pa masama ako pa tong nag suggest sa kanya para buhatin ang motor nya AND AKO PA ANG TUMULONG MAGBUHAT matapos lang ang INIS mo para maisampa sa gutter kasi he told me na hindi pwede isampa ung motor nya kasi LOWERED daw!!!! And pinaka simpleng pwede nya gawin is push his motorcyle and park it on the side kung san may mga sasakyan nakapark.
Evry person has it's own perception pagdating sa init ng ulo at pagbunot at pagwave ng baril kung napaaway or not. Pero wag naman lahatin ang may mga PTCFOR dahil lang sa incident na nangyari sa kapwa katrabaho at dahil lang sa media sila.......
If KAren Davila were on my situation what will she do with this kind of people na nakamotor na iresponsable at kala nya kanya ang kalsada??? bubuhatin din ba nya ang motor?????? hhhhmmmmmmm

Vault Keeper
11-03-2009, 18:17
The problem with them (media people, but not all) they have the venue to air out their grievances. And sometimes, to the extent of abusing them too...kung nakamamatay ang mga reports and komentaryo ekek nila...eh marami na sigurong nakalibing ngayon sa Loyola. :wow:

Just my opinion...though what Mr. Cefiro driver did was not at all commendable, and outright stupid!

Wp.22
11-03-2009, 19:00
Prinsesa pa naman ng ABS and natutukan baka sa lingo matatackle pa yan ni kabayan sa radio show nila ni ms. cosim. BTW a few years back i saw ms. cosim sa megamall with mr. wowowee di naman maganda.

Black_SIR
11-03-2009, 19:36
paano nila nalamanna .45 ang tinutok?? ang talas ata ng mata nila??

heheheheh lucky for that guy hinid armado tinutokan niya or on the spot cya.. :wow:

bikethief
11-03-2009, 19:38
For sale: 99 Nissan Cefiro (RUSH)

Black
Owner driven
No accident
No baha
Original paint, latang-lata
Registered up to 2010
Free 1911 (I will shoulder transfer and renewal)

G19c,PH
11-03-2009, 20:06
Grave threat and illegal possesion ang isasampa na kaso gusto pa humingi ng hold departure order.

toxic
11-03-2009, 21:11
For sale: 99 Nissan Cefiro (RUSH)

Black
Owner driven
No accident
No baha
Original paint, latang-lata
Registered up to 2010
Free 1911 (I will shoulder transfer and renewal)

:rofl::rofl:

toxic
11-03-2009, 21:19
but seriously , baka naman naunang nagpakita ng provicaton ang kampo ni Cosim , nagulat sila kase may baril pala yung other party, obviously taga media na paikot na storya..in any case di talaga tama yung mag tutukan ng baril ..nag katutukan nga ba?..makita at mag pa interview din sana yung may ari ng Cefiro.

vega
11-03-2009, 21:39
Baka naman katulad yan nung car owner na naka t-shirt ng PPSA na natutulog sa kotse niya dahil hinihintay yung anak tapos may mrs na gusto ipasara yung pinto niya and i-move yung sasakyan para makasingit siya. Nung hindi mapag-bigyan siniraan yung kawawang mama. Saan nga ba yon nangyari? La Salle or Ateneo?

Wala akong tiwala sa local media diyan, akala mo magaling magsalita pero pag napuesto walang pinagkaiba sa trapo. Kaya nga hindi kami kumuha ng TFC dito.

Allegra
11-03-2009, 21:52
Yup , I dont trust the local media either
I wonder how her driver was driving knowing he had a media personality sa saskyan
nga lang , talo pa rin si cefiro boy
Naglabas kasi ng baril ,tapos illegal pa

Cher calvin pala iniisip ko hindi si Cheryl cosim

BrassKnuckle
11-03-2009, 22:32
The sister of the guy was interviewed in the news and she said that he has been under a lot of stress lately and is "unstable".

Patay siya at media ang nakatapat niya. Tiyak, gagawin siyang news item ng mga yan lalo't nandiyan lahat ng ingredients for a good story - nakipag gitgitan ng kotse, nanutok ng baril, expired yung license ng baril, 7 pala ang baril niya.... Juicy yon.

If he thought he was under stress before, wala yon compared to what he's going to get now.

binoy
11-04-2009, 02:13
but seriously , baka naman naunang nagpakita ng provicaton ang kampo ni Cosim , nagulat sila kase may baril pala yung other party, obviously taga media na paikot na storya..in any case di talaga tama yung mag tutukan ng baril ..nag katutukan nga ba?..makita at mag pa interview din sana yung may ari ng Cefiro.

Something's fishy. Kung ako na ang nang sideswipe, ako pa manunutok ng baril? Something happened that provoked that guy in doing what he did. And that is not on cheryls' story. Not that he has no fault here, bringing a gun w/out ptc/ptt is a no no... Much more unlicensed and tinutok pa :)

domsky
11-04-2009, 04:07
according to news he got 6 guns registered ...but expired...dapat marinig din yung side niya....but it is illegal manutok ng baril...unless your life is in dangerous situation.................bad points na naman sa may permit to carry toh...

darth board
11-04-2009, 05:16
paano nila nalamanna .45 ang tinutok?? ang talas ata ng mata nila??

heheheheh lucky for that guy hinid armado tinutokan niya or on the spot cya.. :wow:kung ako ang natutukan nya malamang putokan ko agad sya mahirap na maunahan hindi ko naman mababasa yung isip nya kung kakalabitin nya o hindi yung baril nya.

CatsMeow
11-04-2009, 05:53
Did you just notice that those who have a penchant for waving their firearms in others' faces (or shooting them) don't even have PTCFOR's? That's because PTCFOR holders are always (with only one exception I know of), responsible firearms holders, that is, firearms are for protection, not for bullying. But then this always escapes the logic-challenged people at media and the police (present company excluded).

Methinks those who do so are trying to cover up for certain, um, physical shortcomings.:supergrin:

Allegra
11-04-2009, 07:02
Did you just notice that those who have a penchant for waving their firearms in others' faces (or shooting them) don't even have PTCFOR's? That's because PTCFOR holders are always (with only one exception I know of), responsible firearms holders, that is, firearms are for protection, not for bullying. But then this always escapes the logic-challenged people at media and the police (present company excluded).

Methinks those who do so are trying to cover up for certain, um, physical shortcomings.:supergrin:


One of the things that surprised me about mga basagulero
Lahat na yata ng takaw away kong kakilala , niyaya ko magtrain ng bjj
Ayaw , at baka daw sila mainjure? huh??

binoy
11-04-2009, 07:44
Methinks those who do so are trying to cover up for certain, um, physical shortcomings.:supergrin:

Magkano ba Ptc ngayon :):supergrin:

9MX
11-04-2009, 07:54
Did you just notice that those who have a penchant for waving their firearms in others' faces (or shooting them) don't even have PTCFOR's? That's because PTCFOR holders are always (with only one exception I know of), responsible firearms holders, that is, firearms are for protection, not for bullying. But then this always escapes the logic-challenged people at media and the police (present company excluded).

Methinks those who do so are trying to cover up for certain, um, physical shortcomings.:supergrin:


true! most PTCFOR's are responsible, lalo na pag miyembro ng PPSA:cool:

On a sad note, Cheryl positively identified the driver as Richard Ordonez (from LTO records). Richard aka Dick is a member of the Handgunner Club based in Karingal. i don't know the guy, I just got the facts. What is not know is if renewed PPSA member siya, sana hindi

9MX
11-04-2009, 07:56
One of the things that surprised me about mga basagulero
Lahat na yata ng takaw away kong kakilala , niyaya ko magtrain ng bjj
Ayaw , at baka daw sila mainjure? huh??

tanggalan mo ng isang "j", mabilis pa sa alas kwatro, sama yan:rofl:

seriously, i wanna do bjj as well, pero ala na akong oras

mc_oliver
11-04-2009, 08:56
bjj? sounds nasty... :supergrin:

ans3288
11-04-2009, 17:10
the PNP chief will now cancel and confiscate all his firearms? i dont condone the guy's action and support this consequency but was just thinking do they need to prove it in court that he is indeed guilty before they can take his guns or its the discretion of the PNP chief to revoke somebody's firearm license?


if this scenario happened will chief PNP do the same thing quickly? famous personality points gun at ordinary guy during traffic altercation.


Driver who pointed gun at TV newscaster charged
By Nancy C. Carvajal
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 21:33:00 11/04/2009

Filed Under: Television, Police, Crime
Most Read
MANILA, Philippines--Charges were filed Wednesday against a man who allegedly pointed a gun at ABS-CBN newscaster Cheryl Cosim and her companions during a traffic altercation in Quezon City on Monday.

Supt. Lino Banaag, head of the Quezon City Police District’s Criminal Investigation and Detection Unit said Richard C. Ordoñez, 50, a resident of Road 10 in Project 6, Quezon City, was charged with grave threats and illegal possession of firearms before the city prosecutor’s office.

Banaag added that based on the records of the Firearms and Explosives Division (FED) of the Philippine National Police, Ordoñez owned seven firearms.

The licenses for his guns, however, expired in 2007.

Philippine National Police Director General Jesus Verzosa, meanwhile, ordered the revocation of all gun licenses issued to Ordoñez and the confiscation of all of his firearms.

In a complaint she filed with the police, Cosim said that she was on her way home on Monday afternoon when her Mitsubishi Outlander was nearly sideswiped by a black Nissan Cefiro (plate number XPY 497) on Congressional Avenue.

Cosim said the driver of the car then got out and pointed a gun at her and companions as he motioned for them to get out of their vehicle.

When they refused to budge, the man got back into his car and drove away.

Ordoñez was later identified when the police asked the Land Transportation Office to check the plate number provided to them by Cosim.

Cosim also positively identified Ordoñez through the photograph on his driver’s license.

Chief Insp. Benjamin Elenzano, CIDU deputy head, said they went to the address listed on Ordoñez’s LTO records but he was not at home. With Marlon Ramos

asian_glockster
11-04-2009, 18:38
Scenario: you have a misunderstanding with your neighbor. then suddenly the police arrived at your home. they confiscate your fa. why? because your neighbor claimed that you pointed your gun at him. it just happens that he has connections and wants to make your life miserable. even though he didn't pointed the gun at his neighbor, who just happens to know that he has guns.

DG VERZOSA ordered the confiscation of all firearm licenses and firearms of Mr. Ordonez? Why? is it because they're all expired? di ba may amnesty pa po ngayon???

Clusterbomb
11-04-2009, 19:57
kailan daw nagkaroon ng incident na naidefend ng ptcfor ang sarili niya against holduppers (haller, madami na kayang ganito, ayaw ni pareng sonny parsons ng ganyan, baka gusto niyang makantahan ng "Katawan")

i guess the perception of reality varies from person to person:dunno:

Somebody please tell that lady na yes, marami na pong gunowners na naidefend ang sarili, pamilya at property nila dahil sa tamang paggamit ng FA.

Hindi na nga lang nila nirereport sa pulis para hindi na lumaki ang gulo- lalo na kung wala namang nasugatan or namatay.

And kung ireport man ng biktima sa media, hindi naman papansinin ng media kasi hindi newsworthy, hindi controversial yung issue. No controversy, no ratings. The proper use of an FA will never be news for these media people. Its a non-event, no more exciting than someone whipping out an umbrella when it rains.

Sorry but I don't trust media people when they cry out as victims. They know their advantage and use it to the hilt to get sympathy from the gullible.

atmarcella
11-04-2009, 20:36
mokong sya. kung ilabas mo, i-putok mo. eh di sana wala na sya problema. kung hindi mo kaya i-putok wag mo labas.

kagaya lately lang ng taga justice. pati girl witness tinira nya. eh di wala syang problema. dito sa mundo. problema nya nalang pag kaharap nya na dyos.

BrassKnuckle
11-05-2009, 01:15
DG VERZOSA ordered the confiscation of all firearm licenses and firearms of Mr. Ordonez? Why? is it because they're all expired? di ba may amnesty pa po ngayon???

The amnesty only allows people to register their loose firearms and/or renew their expired licenses with hardly any questions asked and for very reasonable fees. It is not an excuse for them to have loose firearms, or ones with expired licenses. Amnesty or no amnesty, bawal yun.

Malinaw ang basis ng order ni Chief PNP: A firearm with an expired license is considered loose and is subject to confiscation.

Malas nalang nung taong yon at nagpabaya siya. Kasalanan niya na hindi niya ni-renew yung licenses niya, at kasalanan niya na nanutok (daw) siya.

jimbullet
11-05-2009, 04:40
First of all, media personalities tend to always be a critic but put them in the shoes of those they actually criticize, can they actually achieve better? This is the perception of the masses, that is why there is high regard and credibility-"kuno".

I do not condone the other guys action since if he indeed carry a loose firearm and pointed that gun without lethal provocation, then it is illegal and stripping him of his right to own one serves him right.

Its a shame though that he apprarently is part of the shooting community. We unfortunately do also have our share of bad apples, but overall, majority of those engaged in the shooting sports are responsible owners, and most of those who legitimately obtain their PTC's have a legit good reason - protect family.

saki1611
11-05-2009, 06:25
First of all, media personalities tend to always be a critic but put them in the shoes of those they actually criticize, can they actually achieve better? This is the perception of the masses, that is why there is high regard and credibility-"kuno".

I do not condone the other guys action since if he indeed carry a loose firearm and pointed that gun without lethal provocation, then it is illegal and stripping him of his right to own one serves him right.

Its a shame though that he apprarently is part of the shooting community. We unfortunately do also have our share of bad apples, but overall, majority of those engaged in the shooting sports are responsible owners, and most of those who legitimately obtain their PTC's have a legit good reason - protect family.

bro jim, our law in the Philippines with regards to owning a gun is still a privilege. any time our government decides to confiscate our guns in its favor is legal based on our laws as i understand it, especially if martial law is declared. much more when it is used in a criminal offense. if the allegations against the alleged suspect is true, his actions then clarifies that he is not qualify to own a firearm or firearms therefore the PNP has legitimate reason to revoke his license/s, and since the license will be nullified therefore the status of the firearm/s is loose and subject for confiscation. just my 2cents...

Allegra
11-05-2009, 09:37
tanggalan mo ng isang "j", mabilis pa sa alas kwatro, sama yan:rofl:

seriously, i wanna do bjj as well, pero ala na akong oras


havent been training din lately , been busy w/ everyone else's ipsc

Allegra
11-06-2009, 08:19
A guy double parked behind me and made me wait 30min bago siya bumalik sa sasakyan
Those 30min na yun , naiisip ko ang thread na to :)
Dami talagang ahole dito sa mundo
I hope the next time he double parks behind a psycho who shoots him dead
Kahit anong isip ko ng quick double leg , mount, then elbows sa muka pagdumating yung #$%^& driver.... wala din ...hangang tingin lang ako at di ako pinalaki ng yaya ko pumatol sa .....DOM
Ang tagal umalis , panay pa ang bola sa kasama nyang daisy
Some people are just asking to be shot

PMMA97
11-06-2009, 12:31
Kelan ba nagiging criminal ang isang suspect? Kelan ba nagiging crime ang isang accusation?

AFAIK this Ordonez is still a suspect until a court finds him guilty then he becomes a criminal because it is proven that he did commit a crime.

I was just concerned that the head of the FED mentioned that the firearms must be confiscated because it was used in a crime.

I am not taking any sides here. Medyo nalilito lang.

saki1611
11-06-2009, 16:45
Kelan ba nagiging criminal ang isang suspect? Kelan ba nagiging crime ang isang accusation?

AFAIK this Ordonez is still a suspect until a court finds him guilty then he becomes a criminal because it is proven that he did commit a crime.

I was just concerned that the head of the FED mentioned that the firearms must be confiscated because it was used in a crime.

I am not taking any sides here. Medyo nalilito lang.

Since Ordonez is a suspect for alleged crime, and he allegedly used his FA as an instrument in committing the crime, said FA should be confiscated and be presented as evidence. And no idiot would surrender an evidence that can be used against himself, but the LEO can apply for a search warrant to seize the FA. Now whether there's a crime or not, since his all FA's have expired licenses, it is then considered as no license and subject to confiscation. Another possible question, how about the amnesty? Amnesty is subject for approval of the chief PNP, that's why one of the requirements is a police clearance to see if the applicant has no criminal record.
Let us remind ourselves, that this kind of actions of gun owners are the reasons of having a stricter, which i doubt if that really strict, rules of owning a FA. Seems to me that some of us here see only the perspective of ordonez situation being a gun owner, let us also consider what if it's our love ones who encountered mr ordonez. Is ordonez actuation is reasonable even our brothers or sisters drive reclessly on the streets?are we secretly commending ordonez for having the guts of doing this to as@#%le drivers which some of do us not have? Personally, this action is a sign of cowardice, ******, chicken, a mall ninja just borrowing courage from the muzzle of his guns, the kind of person/s that don't deserve to own a gun, even an airsoft.

ans3288
11-06-2009, 16:51
after realizing that the guns of the suspect was expired, then the PNP has the right to confiscate.

now to confiscate bec of an alledged crime? i think due process must be followed like what sir saki said, confiscate bec of evidence but not without a search warrant.

PMMA97
11-06-2009, 17:50
I thought the gun toting was the alleged crime against Cosim et.al.

And the expired licenses were the actual crime committed against the PNP.

Which brings me to another question.

Can a civilian (Cosim) file illegal possession charges against a gun owner (Ordonez) for having unlicensed firearms?

Young Once
11-06-2009, 19:28
Legally, it will be the "People of the Philippines" filing the complaint for illegal possession of FA, if after preliminary investigation, prima facie evidence is found to warrant said charge against Ordonez. Cosim will merely be a witness for the prosecution.

Young Once
11-06-2009, 19:30
By the way, there is no such crime as "gun toting." There is no such animal in law. The crimes will either be: i. Illegal possession; ii. Bring of FA outside of residence without PTCFOR; iii. Grave threats; iv. Illegal discharge of firearm; v. attempted, frustrated or consummated murder (if actually used).

PMMA97
11-07-2009, 03:15
Thanks Young Once.

saki1611
11-09-2009, 03:24
Kelan ba nagiging criminal ang isang suspect? Kelan ba nagiging crime ang isang accusation?

AFAIK this Ordonez is still a suspect until a court finds him guilty then he becomes a criminal because it is proven that he did commit a crime.

I was just concerned that the head of the FED mentioned that the firearms must be confiscated because it was used in a crime.

I am not taking any sides here. Medyo nalilito lang.

FYI bro, the parameters is at the back of our license card.

PMMA97
11-09-2009, 04:40
FYI bro, the parameters is at the back of our license card.

Section N. Other analogous cases and cases not herein mentioned that would warrant revocation of license to ensure public order and safety.

Sa tagalog, maski anong kaso or bintang ay pwedeng gawing dahilan na alisin ang priviledge to bear arms.

Mahirap talaga kapag priviledge lang...

Thanks saki1611.

bikethief
11-09-2009, 05:05
Hug your children often so they don't grow up to be hotheaded bastards.
Do not scrimp on their education and teach them compassion towards their neighbor.
Arm them when they're ready so that they can be instruments of peace.

9MX
11-09-2009, 07:16
after realizing that the guns of the suspect was expired, then the PNP has the right to confiscate.

now to confiscate bec of an alledged crime? i think due process must be followed like what sir saki said, confiscate bec of evidence but not without a search warrant.


but we are on amnesty until the end of this month, diyan ako may conflict.

if the victim wasn't a celebrity, the treatment may have been different. may nagpapapogi dito, klaro yun.

while he has yet to be tried in our courts, i personally think the suspect is guilty..but he is entitled to due process

saki1611
11-09-2009, 07:32
but we are on amnesty until the end of this month, diyan ako may conflict.

if the victim wasn't a celebrity, the treatment may have been different. may nagpapapogi dito, klaro yun.

while he has yet to be tried in our courts, i personally think the suspect is guilty..but he is entitled to due process

amnesty is subject for approval, kaya nga may police clearance na kailangan sa requirements. let say, Alvin Flores is captured and applying for amnesty and yet he's not yet convicted of any crimes charged against him, is the due process can be applied to him for the approval of his amnesty? as i have said try to read the parameters at the back of the license card and you will see the provisions when the license of FA can be revoked. the amnesty program is for loose firearms so it can be registered and have a license for a particular FA and the owner can not be charged of illegal possession, but it is still subject for verification if the FA to be licensed have not used in crime. probably the next question is, what will happen to the person who have the possession of gun with "record"? he could be investigated if he has connection with the crime that invloved the FA. if he was not involved, the gun can be confiscated and no charges will be filed against that person.

at back of the FA's license card read Para 2-J...
and also letter K

"Ignorance of the law excuses no one..."

binoy
11-09-2009, 19:47
amnesty is subject for approval, kaya nga may police clearance na kailangan sa requirements. let say, Alvin Flores is captured and applying for amnesty and yet he's not yet convicted of any crimes charged against him, is the due process can be applied to him for the approval of his amnesty? as i have said try to read the parameters at the back of the license card and you will see the provisions when the license of FA can be revoked. the amnesty program is for loose firearms so it can be registered and have a license for a particular FA and the owner can not be charged of illegal possession, but it is still subject for verification if the FA to be licensed have not used in crime. probably the next question is, what will happen to the person who have the possession of gun with "record"? he could be investigated if he has connection with the crime that invloved the FA. if he was not involved, the gun can be confiscated and no charges will be filed against that person.

at back of the FA's license card read Para 2-J...
and also letter K

"Ignorance of the law excuses no one..."

Ang bright mo saki. Pakurot nga.... Hehehehehe

9MX
11-10-2009, 07:33
amnesty is subject for approval,



yep. and it doesn't mean you get charged with illegal possession if dissaproved

meowr
11-10-2009, 07:48
"Ignorance of the law excuses no one..."

Sigh.... and of course we live in the Philippines....
where the law changes daily.... and finding out the current law is darn near impossible...

What's that you say? My PTC no longer allows me to carry in a waistband holster? When did that happen? OH! the PNP head declared it himself, and it becomes law the next day because of a 1 person vote! AWESOME!!!!

And let's not forget the road rules in Metro Manila....
Streets suddenly become one way without warning. Or time-based one way. No longer allowed to take left turns on intersections.
Rules are arbitrarily changed and/or created.

saki1611
11-10-2009, 08:44
yep. and it doesn't mean you get charged with illegal possession if dissaproved

have you read all the context of my post? please re-read it, it might change your mind.:supergrin:

yes, you won't be charged of illegal possession, but your gun will be confiscated... if you're referring about the charged of illegal possession against mr ordonez, it's a different story. he has his gun with him without proper documents and no intention of surrendering it to the authority nor applying for amnesty, worst it aggravates because of the alleged grave threat using the gun.

if i were you, you listen to friend's explanation rather than learn it from experience. "the wise learn from the mistake of others, but fool from themselves...":supergrin:

saki1611
11-10-2009, 08:48
Ang bright mo saki. Pakurot nga.... Hehehehehe

di naman, kaunti lang...:supergrin:

saki1611
11-10-2009, 08:55
Sigh.... and of course we live in the Philippines....
where the law changes daily.... and finding out the current law is darn near impossible...

What's that you say? My PTC no longer allows me to carry in a waistband holster? When did that happen? OH! the PNP head declared it himself, and it becomes law the next day because of a 1 person vote! AWESOME!!!!

And let's not forget the road rules in Metro Manila....
Streets suddenly become one way without warning. Or time-based one way. No longer allowed to take left turns on intersections.
Rules are arbitrarily changed and/or created.

sad to say, no matter how harsh is the law, it's still the law...

PMMA97
11-10-2009, 14:40
There is indeed a law that authorizes the CPNP, through the directive of the President, to change the guidelines concerning all matters relating to our firearms.

One man vote indeed.

But there is always a law of self preservation. Always cover your six.

Allegra
11-10-2009, 16:20
Sigh.... and of course we live in the Philippines....
where the law changes daily.... and finding out the current law is darn near impossible...

What's that you say? My PTC no longer allows me to carry in a waistband holster? When did that happen? OH! the PNP head declared it himself, and it becomes law the next day because of a 1 person vote! AWESOME!!!!

And let's not forget the road rules in Metro Manila....
Streets suddenly become one way without warning. Or time-based one way. No longer allowed to take left turns on intersections.
Rules are arbitrarily changed and/or created.


Laws of Man yata tawag dun

binoy
11-10-2009, 22:30
Laws of Man yata tawag dun

Akala ko suggestion. Nasa tao na kung susundin o hindi :supergrin:

9MX
11-11-2009, 07:22
yes, you won't be charged of illegal possession, but your gun will be confiscated...

yep, kaya nga amnesty e

productionguy
11-11-2009, 08:40
nauna lang ng konti ung banat ng media sa suspect,pero ung papel ng f.a niya nabigyan na ng order of payment sa crame para sa unrenewed license,babayaran na lang sa landbank ...hindi na lang tinuloy kasi na media na...

ans3288
11-11-2009, 18:57
would it look worse for the gun community if the FAs of the suspect where uptodate when the "gun toting" incident took place?

PMMA97
11-11-2009, 20:52
yep, kaya nga amnesty e

And after getting an amnesty they could still get your firearms anytime of the week and twice on Sundays :supergrin:

9MX
11-12-2009, 06:56
would it look worse for the gun community if the FAs of the suspect where uptodate when the "gun toting" incident took place?

good point. but from what i've seen, ang focus talaga eh dun sa pagtutok.

GMV
11-13-2009, 03:07
I'll play devil's advocate...

So far all we've heard or read is the side of the supposed victim. However, some facts have to be considered: (1) Who caused the traffic altercation? (2) Victim was accompanied by 3 male companions. What did these 3 male companions do after the supposed traffic altercation? Were they also carrying firearms/weapons at the time of the incident? Did they provoke the offender? (3) In relation to the questions in No. 2, was the offender left with no other alternative but to draw his firearm?

Just some things to think about...

9MX
11-13-2009, 09:00
GMV,

I have to agree. However, the suspect has yet to show up and clear himself.

foxyyy
11-13-2009, 10:29
i think i saw it in the news a week ago that the suspect had a similar incident a few years back but with a lowly truck driver..he actually let the gun go bang which actually grazed the ear of the truck driver..the truck driver got the license plate of the car & saw it was the same one as what cosim et al had altercation with..was wondering why the police didn't do anything way back then since the truck driver had the incident blottered..tsk..tsk..tsk..

Allegra
11-13-2009, 10:40
i think i saw it in the news a week ago that the suspect had a similar incident a few years back but with a lowly truck driver..he actually let the gun go bang which actually grazed the ear of the truck driver..the truck driver got the license plate of the car & saw it was the same one as what cosim et al had altercation with..was wondering why the police didn't do anything way back then since the truck driver had the incident blottered..tsk..tsk..tsk..

Mas mahal mag areglo kay ms cosim

Sabi nyo hindi maganda si Ms cosim , maganda sa naman tv a
Kaso mukang selosa at di marunong magluto...

atmarcella
11-14-2009, 20:45
Were they also carrying firearms/weapons at the time of the incident?

ms cosim was asked the question and she replied that kahit sa bahay nila walang baril. whichever way you look at it mukhang mokong talaga ang taong ito.

zij11zk
11-20-2009, 07:22
Kaso mukang selosa at di marunong magluto...

:rofl: Onga... SUPLADA ang dating... DIFFICULT to please at di marunong mag luto... Parang wife ko... :rofl:

Young Once
11-20-2009, 17:39
There are now two new incidents which may affect all of us. The recent shooting of a son of a Malacanang Official and also another shooting incident of involving a car and a jeep. The jeepney driver was able to get the plate number of the car and police are now looking for the guy. Ditto with the first incident.

brawnless
12-12-2009, 07:22
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/metro/view/20091211-241514/Trader-facing-grave-threats-charge-finally-surfaces

Trader facing grave threats charge finally surfaces

By Julie M. Aurelio
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 21:53:00 12/11/2009

Filed Under: Crime

THE BUSINESSMAN who is facing grave threat charges filed by TV anchor Cheryl Cosim on Friday denied poking a gun at her and her companions during a traffic altercation in Quezon City last month.

In a counter-affidavit submitted to the Quezon City Prosecutors Office, Richard Ordoñez claimed he only got down from his vehicle to gesture to Cosim’s party during the altercation at the corner of Visayas and Congressional Avenues.

It was the first time Ordoñez appeared before assistant city prosecutor Rodrigo del Rosario during the course of the preliminary investigation of the complaint for grave threats and illegal possession filed against him by Cosim.

The businessman added that under the law, the charge of illegal possession of firearms should be dismissed as there was supposedly another crime committed, which is the subject of the grave threats charge.

Ordoñez cited a portion of the Revised Penal Code, which states that the illegal possession of firearms is punishable “provided that no other crime was committed.”

“It is not true that the respondent (Ordoñez) alighted from his vehicle and pointed a gun at the complainants. Respondent did not even bring a gun with him as he merely went to get a haircut and to immediately go back home afterwards,” he said.

Also present yesterday was CIDU case investigator PO2 Loreto Tigno, who also submitted his affidavit stating that Ordoñez possessed seven firearms with expired licenses.

atmarcella
12-12-2009, 20:13
Onga... SUPLADA ang dating... DIFFICULT to please at di marunong mag luto... Parang wife ko...

akin din hehehe.