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Allegra
11-11-2009, 10:07
May fascinating discussion dun sa pinoyguns, kaso malapit na ako bugbugin dun kaya lipat ko nga dito usapan hehehe
Nagsimula sa usapan ng 15round mag limit, napunta sa usapang equipment advantage - sp01/stock2 vs guns ng mga poor

Gaano ba talaga kalaki advantage ng top of the line equipment sa performance?
To put it in fersfective, if I buy the 120t adam tyc's signature shadow today and compete w/ it tomorrow, bigla bang magimprove ang results ko?

isuzu
11-11-2009, 10:35
IMO, when it comes to guns, it's how well the equipment is tuned. Assuming they are both the same format. The operator also plays a big factor. There can be a slight difference, but not much. Sometimes, it's all advertising.

I've handled a well-tuned NZ-75 in the Philippines, and the trigger pull was even better than the stock CZ-75. Others buy a Norinco 1911 and replace some parts to make it function better, in the process, saving thousands of pesos.

What the foreign gunsmiths do can nowadays be done by our local gunsmiths at a much lesser cost.

bulm540
11-11-2009, 17:13
May fascinating discussion dun sa pinoyguns, kaso malapit na ako bugbugin dun kaya lipat ko nga dito usapan hehehe
Nagsimula sa usapan ng 15round mag limit, napunta sa usapang equipment advantage - sp01/stock2 vs guns ng mga poor

Gaano ba talaga kalaki advantage ng top of the line equipment sa performance?
To put it in fersfective, if I buy the 120t adam tyc's signature shadow today and compete w/ it tomorrow, bigla bang magimprove ang results ko?

I doubt it, you still have to put the effort to practice and invest in a lot of bullets. You mentioned you have a cz 85 , that is a gun I will buy for production if I get real serious with production. The SP 01 had the capacity advantage but with the 15 round capacity limit, some shooters will be exposed.

asian_glockster
11-11-2009, 17:17
Pag ako po yun, siguradong puro AD ako, hehehehe, sobrang lambot trigger:-)

saki1611
11-11-2009, 17:43
having preferred guns (customized depending on the budget, considering the accuracy and reliability) in competition and defense use is a plus factor, yet it's still the man behind the gun that counts.

Wp.22
11-11-2009, 18:25
Pasok ba dito yung "it's not the pana but the indian"

Allegra
11-11-2009, 18:42
I doubt it, you still have to put the effort to practice and invest in a lot of bullets. You mentioned you have a cz 85 , that is a gun I will buy for production if I get real serious with production. The SP 01 had the capacity advantage but with the 15 round capacity limit, some shooters will be exposed.


Sayang!! I thought buying tyc's gun would put an end to R.O.Apollo's laos jokes haha

Mejo different yung cz85 ko, may halik ng diwata ng makiling yun :)
Seriously , I dont know if my gun has a different metallurgy than other cz85s
Give away kasi ito sa mga poging cz shooters dati , pati mags niya iba
Sobrang abused di nasisira , unlike my friends guns na napuputol ang fp, slide stop, roll pin etc
Mahuna yung mga current manufacture nila, you might want to study it muna
At the same price,try to look at the sti gp6 , if sti jan sa US stands by their products
I really like shooting it, though I heard qc issues w/ some batches

Black_SIR
11-11-2009, 18:52
Pasok ba dito yung "it's not the pana but the indian"

+1 , nasa tao yan 2nd na ang baril imho

MAJINKONG
11-11-2009, 19:21
yup. sa tao... pareparehas lang hits/tama basta comfortable ka sa gun kahit laspag, brandnew, mumurahin or mamahalin. Pero better pa din mamahalin para merun pogi points... he he he

asian_glockster
11-11-2009, 20:32
yup. sa tao... pareparehas lang hits/tama basta comfortable ka sa gun kahit laspag, brandnew, mumurahin or mamahalin. Pero better pa din mamahalin para merun pogi points... he he he

+1
Minsan nga po sa competition, meron ako nakikitang shooter na talagang malulupit sa uri ng gamit at rig nila. Ang gaganda pa ng suot nilang apparel at sapatos, akala ko talaga naglaro sila sa WS. Ang lakas maka psy-war :-) pero pag putok, parang mga tyro po pala :-)

May shooter po ako nakikita na bumili ng mga bagong labas na CZ sp01 shadow kaso na frustrate sya dahil ayaw nya ang trigger pull. Iniswap po nya sa commander ng uncle ko.

Advantage kamo? pag occasional shooter katulad ko (pang Level 1 at tupada :-) ), hindi ko po napapansin. Gamit ko po dati sa production div ay glock 19 at CZ 75. Holster ko ay Uncle Mike's Kydex holster at mag pouch ko ay Marikina lang po. Sa pagbubunot ng baril at spare mag hindi naman ganun katindi ang advantage kesa naka CR speed ka. Karamihan naman po ng COF na sinasalihan ko puro condition 2 naman po kaya sa palagay ko walang gaanong advantage kung naka CR speed ka na holster. Kung sumasali ka sa Level 4 o 5, pwede po siguro o may advantage.

jlkwison
11-11-2009, 21:14
yup. sa tao... pareparehas lang hits/tama basta comfortable ka sa gun kahit laspag, brandnew, mumurahin or mamahalin. Pero better pa din mamahalin para merun pogi points... he he he

I agree that winning matches depends a lot on how well you perform, but I would just like to clarify re "laspag" (worn) - it depends on how worn the gun is. If its worn out to the point that it does not hold its own anymore, I don't think you'd win anything if you compete with guys with the same level (or even lower) as you are with better equipment. In addition, small differences in equipment can mean the difference between winning or loosing for world class shooters. I'm not saying it is always the case, but it does happen. That is why top level shooters still spend a lot on their equipment specially for those competing in open division - everything has to be perfect for them.

Going back to the "120t adam tyc's signature shadow", I'd rather go for the regular shadow or even the sp01. Whatever advantage that the "120t adam tyc's signature shadow" has over the regular ones can be mitigated by a good gunsmith, as Isuzu has said. ;) Besides, I wouldn't have the heart to bash a 120t signature series gun, let alone loose with it! :faint:

ahtsay
11-11-2009, 21:35
For me the "reliability" of the gun is paramount.
Imagine a short course na 9 rounds. Using my Norinco na nabasbasan ni Cardinal Rosales, I shot it at 10 seconds, 1 down. Ikaw naman Allegra using your new Shadow na inassemble sa Czech ng isang may balat sa ****, you shot 8 rounds at 4 seconds pero on your last round nag jam ka. Yung jam na hinde mo mahila yung magazine chaka hinde mo ma rack yung slide. By the time you were able to clear the jam and insert a fresh mag, nasa 12 seconds ka na. :supergrin: Of course imagination ko lang yun. :rofl:
For me as long as the pana will shoot everytime you pull the trigger then it boils down to the Indian. It really doesn't matter what kind of pana, basta pumuputok and reliable.

Taurus
11-11-2009, 23:06
Good equipment complements ability; it does not substitute for it.

Manny Pacquiao prefers Cleto Reyes gloves. That doesn't mean that a mediocre boxer who uses the same gloves can go 12 rounds against Pacquiao.

Kobe Bryant prefers low-cut basketball shoes. Although Nike would like you to believe so, buying a pair of these will not make you the best player in the coming barangay liga.

Tiger Woods prefers Swedish blonde bikini models. So do I. I bought a TW golf shirt and my chances of marrying a Swedish blonde bikini model just increased by .000000000018%. (What can I say? Every bit helps.)

Ability,training and practice is what makes people excel (Proper equipment is of course indispensable).

Good equipment simply helps in enhancing ability. You should still have the ability, you should still practice, and you should still train.

Or you can buy that Adam Tyc gun and tell yourself you don't need to practice as much as the guy with the Glock. But who are you kidding?

jimbullet
11-11-2009, 23:21
Teka, mas maganda para mas simple - let us quantify this in exact science....Performance equipment (i.e. kind of pistol, gear, mods etc.) is 10%, the shooter or the man behind the gun is 20%, pure luck = 70%.... :-)

binoy
11-11-2009, 23:31
+1 , nasa tao yan 2nd na ang baril imho

+2 na. I have a Para that shoots flawlessly, 2alpha, alpha charlie (pag iba gumagamit). Alpha lupa, charlie sako, 2mike kalimitan (pag ako gumagamit). Get the drift?:embarassed:

ans3288
11-11-2009, 23:43
OT, yah, qc issues siguro, i have 2 friends that bought GP6, both their rear sights came off while zeroing the gun. heard from tonyO na "sirain" daw ang GP6 altho didnt ask what usually breaks in that unit...

Sayang!! I thought buying tyc's gun would put an end to R.O.Apollo's laos jokes haha

Mejo different yung cz85 ko, may halik ng diwata ng makiling yun :)
Seriously , I dont know if my gun has a different metallurgy than other cz85s
Give away kasi ito sa mga poging cz shooters dati , pati mags niya iba
Sobrang abused di nasisira , unlike my friends guns na napuputol ang fp, slide stop, roll pin etc
Mahuna yung mga current manufacture nila, you might want to study it muna
At the same price,try to look at the sti gp6 , if sti jan sa US stands by their products
I really like shooting it, though I heard qc issues w/ some batches

atmarcella
11-11-2009, 23:44
heck thats nothing... i shot sako sako once whahahaha.

9MX
11-12-2009, 08:46
May fascinating discussion dun sa pinoyguns, kaso malapit na ako bugbugin dun kaya lipat ko nga dito usapan hehehe


:rofl:

jasonub
11-12-2009, 18:47
I started with an hk 45 for ipsc though i dont do matches, ipsc style of shooting.

I was fast and accurate. They said that i was the fastest and most accurate guy out there using an hk with the crappy trigger and high bore line compared to a 1911 style pistol.

My buddy who introduced me to ipsc beats me around 7 out of 10 times at practice using the hit factor formula. He beats me in speed. We are built about the same, he was about 4 inches shorter though. I being the engineer geek i was, wondered and analized the situation.

We checked first shots, transitions, splits, box to box, etc.

I was more accurate than him when we shoot offhand without the speed equation. You know where he beats me? Splits!

We geeks, since he is also an engineer with our other engineer shooting buddies, pointed out that the high boreline of the hk 45 was holding my splits back. He was using an armscor high cap 45 lower at that time.

So i bought my first armscor 45 lower and beat him more than he beats me when i was using an HK.

Skill is very important. But in high levels of competition where skill may be about the same for each one, equipment also plays a part.

Thus in this ipsc game, even small advantages, gun, mag capacity(imagine a 9 round cof and you have 8 rounds on the pistol, gun in condition 3 given the same skill or even the same person shooting the cof. Given he shoots all A's, given his draw and load and transitions, and splits are equal, the one with the single stack still has to reload.

Sure its one stage but the guy with the high cap still will win that stage by about 2 seconds or so.

Equipment, pistol, shoes, physical fitness, plays a part though a small one. Skill plays a big part so practice a lot. The biggest part in this sport and any sport i have participated in is the matter inside your head.

my 2 cents

Black_SIR
11-13-2009, 00:48
+2 na. I have a Para that shoots flawlessly, 2alpha, alpha charlie (pag iba gumagamit). Alpha lupa, charlie sako, 2mike kalimitan (pag ako gumagamit). Get the drift?:embarassed:

alapha lupa!! charlie sako!!! hahahahahahaha
ganyan ako pero may guns is just ordinary glock and hs hehehe

MAJINKONG
11-13-2009, 03:10
sir allegra.. maganda talaga adam tyc cz... if not matalo sa galing ang kalaban, at least maglaway sa inggit.. i think its the sheeeeeeeer pleasure of shooting that kind of equipment if merun ka adam tyc..

Allegra
11-13-2009, 05:35
OT, yah, qc issues siguro, i have 2 friends that bought GP6, both their rear sights came off while zeroing the gun. heard from tonyO na "sirain" daw ang GP6 altho didnt ask what usually breaks in that unit...

Hopefully sti addresses the problem
I really like the gun , betten than the nose heavy cz and tanfo
Kabarkada ko is sponsored by magnus , di nasisira gp6 niya even huge volume ng putok
Kaya , I assumed qc ang problem

Allegra
11-13-2009, 05:54
Jan kasi nagsisimula problema
Maganda na rin para sa newbies na nagbabasa
Before you even mess w/ the euipment -trigger pulls, recoil springs , load recipes , lasers etc
Isipin nyo muna ba if your buying this to compensate for lack of skills/technique
Ang advantage nyan ay extremely small , ika nga ni Jason and the others only the top guys would notice the diff
And the topguys ay mabusisi sa equipment ONLY to find an advantage over sa kalaban
Not because , mahina pa basics nila sa shooting
And the basics ang malaki ang effect sa match results
Di ko magets yung ayaw sa 15round mag limit sa production kung lahat naman limited sa 15
Wala akong makitang maganda reason except tamad magpractice
Sabagay , bwisit naman talaga magdryfire

Dagdag ko lang , natawa ako sa sinulat ko
Nung naadik ako sa bike , bili naman ako ng bili ng magandang pyesa , hoping bumilis ako magbike
Which is why I became better at shooting and sucked at biking heehee

atmarcella
11-14-2009, 19:53
nakalabit ko at nahipo si adam tyc, grabe, hanep ang trigger pull, we even compared to regular shadow, wari ko mga 1lb din difference.

im just wondering, kaya kaya ng adam tyc putok kahit anong primer???

Black_SIR
11-14-2009, 21:24
pero ako im not a sharpshooter but shooitng a 1911 is way best than shooting my glock hehehehe parang may power ka kasi makakatama talaga

Allegra
11-15-2009, 06:58
old school kasi ako :)
When I was a newbie, di pa uso sponsored prod shooters nun, wala pang prod div
the top std guys had the ugliest guns
in fact if you had a shiny new toy, alam agad na hindi ka kasama sa bilang
So makikita mo din na effective marketing ang pagsponsor ng shooters :)
everyone started buying shadows at stock2 because that's what the winners shoot


when I switched to a cz85 from a para/caspian std pistol I thought it was like switching from a sports car to an owner jeep.....until I practiced
Binigyan tayo ng diyos ng inceredible ability to adapt
Sa drills, pumapareho performance nung box stock cz sa customed-to-my-liking na std gun
Pible was so impressed inalok agad bilin yung almost new cz ng 15t
Nahiya lang ako sa kumpare ko at baka masyado syang lugi

drhiredgun
11-15-2009, 09:22
...hwag nyo rin po kalimutan mga quality ng bala na ginagamit....different guns behave to different ammos...

Putok-Glock
11-15-2009, 16:37
old school kasi ako :)...

when I switched to a cz85 from a para/caspian std pistol I thought it was like switching from a sports car to an owner jeep.....until I practiced
Binigyan tayo ng diyos ng inceredible ability to adapt
Sa drills, pumapareho performance nung box stock cz sa customed-to-my-liking na std gun...


+1

think i can relate to this...

mesteve2
11-15-2009, 16:54
Then I can enjoy your posts.

:yawn:

i_am_infinity
11-15-2009, 17:20
Jan kasi nagsisimula problema
Maganda na rin para sa newbies na nagbabasa
Before you even mess w/ the euipment -trigger pulls, recoil springs , load recipes , lasers etc
Isipin nyo muna ba if your buying this to compensate for lack of skills/technique
Ang advantage nyan ay extremely small , ika nga ni Jason and the others only the top guys would notice the diff
And the topguys ay mabusisi sa equipment ONLY to find an advantage over sa kalaban
Not because , mahina pa basics nila sa shooting
And the basics ang malaki ang effect sa match results
Di ko magets yung ayaw sa 15round mag limit sa production kung lahat naman limited sa 15
Wala akong makitang maganda reason except tamad magpractice
Sabagay , bwisit naman talaga magdryfire

Dagdag ko lang , natawa ako sa sinulat ko
Nung naadik ako sa bike , bili naman ako ng bili ng magandang pyesa , hoping bumilis ako magbike
Which is why I became better at shooting and sucked at biking heehee

RICH KA KASI!!!! :tongueout: bwahaha

Nytemare
11-15-2009, 17:24
May fascinating discussion dun sa pinoyguns, kaso malapit na ako bugbugin dun kaya lipat ko nga dito usapan hehehe
Nagsimula sa usapan ng 15round mag limit, napunta sa usapang equipment advantage - sp01/stock2 vs guns ng mga poor

Gaano ba talaga kalaki advantage ng top of the line equipment sa performance?
To put it in fersfective, if I buy the 120t adam tyc's signature shadow today and compete w/ it tomorrow, bigla bang magimprove ang results ko?

WTF? Why is your thread in another language?

Allegra
11-15-2009, 17:53
I apologize to my american friends
It's the national language of the Republic of Pacqiuao




* Ok dont take that comment seriously, that was a joke

Allegra
11-15-2009, 18:04
RICH KA KASI!!!! :tongueout: bwahaha


Baguhin ko na ulit jokes ko heehee wala nang nagrereact sa poor jokes ko e

atmarcella
11-15-2009, 18:20
Republic of Pacqiuao


pwede! why not makunat hehehehe.

saki1611
11-15-2009, 21:47
WTF? Why is your thread in another language?

this thread is a privileged given to us by the Admin of GlockTalk, for filipino community,

Eye Cutter
11-15-2009, 23:57
fafa allegra, buhay pa cz85 mo??? tagal na nun! puro kalawang na?

Allegra
11-16-2009, 05:55
fafa allegra, buhay pa cz85 mo??? tagal na nun! puro kalawang na?


hehe galeng no, 9 year s old na
Puro kalawang nga , ayaw malaglag ng magazine kailangan hatakin
Pero no jams kahit 2006 pa huling nilinis, walang nasisira
It's one of the orig 4 cz85s dala ng cz rep for coach jojo, nelson uygonco , dojo, and .....ewan ko sino yun.....humble na hawig kay john loyd
Nga lang kelangan na dalin kay metrillo, nag dedelta sya lately