My review of my new Lee 1000 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Reagan40
11-12-2009, 20:14
I got a new Lee 1000 progressive press the other day. I read a lot of review on line before I bought it. Half were positive, half were negetive. My decision to buy it was based on price. It cost me less than 200 bucks with .45 ACP dies included. I am also planning on using this press only for .45, so once I get it set it will never change. I shoot more .45 than anything, and for under 200 bucks, I felt it was worth it to keep it set up permanently.

The instructions were pretty helpful in assembling the press and adjusting it. I got everything adjusted, and I loaded up the case feeder. The first 4 rounds went perfectly. After that, all hell broke loose. The case feeder malfunctioned, and once that happened it seemed to wreck everything. The indexing got screwed up, powder spilled into the primer feeder causing a jam. I got it all clened up, and adjusted. I fine tuned everything and started again. This happened a few times, until I got it adjusted perfectly. Now it seems to be working great. I would not dare try to change calibers or move anything. It seems that it is very tempermental until you get everything adjusted exactly right. Now that it is adjusted, I loaded 300 rounds very quickly.

In short, I think it is a good cheap option for a single caliber set up. If you only want one press, and want a press that can easily be set up for various calibers, this may not be the one for you. It is also only good if you have a great deal of patience, mechanical know how, and the determination to keep working at it for a while to get it right.

My next progressive press will be for multiple calibers. It will be a Dillon.

Wash-ar15
11-12-2009, 20:41
you did great. now that you have an idea of how it works,it gets a lot easier. it will make ammo just as good as a Dillion.

Keep the primer feed clean and it will just hum along.

partsman
11-12-2009, 22:39
i have 3, one nine,38/357 and one in .45, like you said they are not bad for the money but you always have to tinker with them.
like the other poster said keep your primer feed clean and that will save allot of headaches. get a can of the compressed air and blow out that station when you refill.

coachg
11-13-2009, 08:05
It is also only good if you have a great deal of patience, mechanical know how, and the determination to keep working at it for a while to get it right.


That is the truth! I almost sold mine once. Almost smashed it with a hammer another time out of frustration. Once you've worked with it enough, you start to anticipate where the problems can occur.

I eliminated the chain setup and went back to the original powder dispenser. I like it much better.

The best feeling in the world when you are using it is to have that primer set. A sigh of relief every time it goes in without a problem.

Enjoy.

CG

fkenyon
11-14-2009, 08:38
I too bought one about 6 weeks ago for the same reasons. I'm only loading 9mm, and I couldn't see spending 3 times as much for the dillon.

My experiences were similar. After feeling my way around the machine, it works like a champ. Take your time, adopt a smooth slow rhythm, figure what the disc charge REALLY is,and you can crank out 200+/hr easily.

Colorado4Wheel
11-14-2009, 09:37
My experiences were similar. After feeling my way around the machine, it works like a champ. Take your time, adopt a smooth slow rhythm, figure what the disc charge REALLY is,and you can crank out 200+/hr easily.


The best feeling in the world when you are using it is to have that primer set. A sigh of relief every time it goes in without a problem.
CG

Thats why people gravitate towards the Lee Classic turret. Simplier press, its a little slower, 4 station, more reliable but the same basic cost. I can see why people get the Pro 1000 but for me the reliability of the LCT is more alluring then the speed and "finicky nature" of the Pro 1000.

Welcome to the reloading world. :wavey:

G19lover
12-25-2009, 18:07
The Lee Pro is a great press for the money and when I had first got mine I also wanted to take the hammer to it. I actually had it boxed up ready to go back till I cooled down and decided to give it a second try. I have been reloading for 30 years and it was instantly frustrating. Having said that, after I remounted it and took my time with it I got it working after about a half hour, here are some experiences.

Case feeding and using the collator : brilliant idea and works great, beats the snot out of the complicated power case feeder for the rcbs at a cost of almost nothing if you ever had to replace it. You can fill the tube feeder in about 30 seconds. Occasionally one will go in upside down and that generally happens from dumping them in. No problem just pull it out when it tries to feed it.

Powder measure: Kind of cheaply made but it works pretty flawless. The method of preventing a charge with no case in is pretty ingenious. Almost impossible to double charge a case but it could happen if you are figgiding with the primer system and run the press up and down far enough to trigger it. I have had it occasionally drop a light load but overall is dependable. As said check the charge with the powder you are using to verify it drops the correct charge.

Priming system: This is the trouble spot on the machine. Get it adjusted right and your in for a good time but get it out of whack and prepare to pick the pieces up after smashing it into a thousand pieces. The key here is clean the trough on a regular basis with compressed air as mentioned. Another key item is once the primer tray is empty and you have loaded enough to clear the throat, don't go any farther! Refill the tray! After this point there is not enough wieght pushing the primers down and I guarantee it will jam or malfunction. Normally it manages to flip a primer on its side and jam the shell plate. It's not unusually for this to throw the plate out of time and you may very well have to retime it using the screw in the bottom of the carrier. Key is to keep clean and full. When seating a primer on the down stroke, don't force it, gently begin the seating process and if it doesn't feel right STOP!
Quite often what will cause a primer to not wanna seat is either it is a Lake City cartridge with the crimp not removed or powder or crap has gotten packed into the groove of the shell plate not allowing the shell to fit all the way back into the groove. If necessary, take a pin and clean the shell plate groove. Also keep an eye on the retainer spring that holds the shell into the groove. If not tensioned, bend it till it does.

Bullet seating station: If your trying to use the bullet feeder system my suggestion is THROW IT AWAY! LOL, this is an epic fail and you will in my opinion spend more time trying to make this work than the reward for using it. The fingers get broken very easily and you have to be extra careful when there is not a shell in the station which is the first two rotations. If the bullet falls out of the feeder, you just broke the fingers! At $10 per set you will go broke in the next 10 minutes of trying to fix it! I hand load the bullet for reliability and also the ability to verify there is a powder charge in the shell casing before seating. Here is a caution if loading a shell with a full powder charge, the snap of the shellplate seating will bounce powder out of the casing and this will eventually find its way into the grooves of the shell plate increasing your chances of malfunction. I have gotten into the habit of as the shell casing comes around placing my finger over the top of the casing till it has snapped into place, I verify the charge looks right set the bullet and proceed.

Using these guidelines I easily load a round every 12 seconds taking my time to ensure the primer is seating correctly. That is an easy 6 boxes an hour. I have done many more per hour but this is taking into consideration the occasional issues that arise.

I have no issues using ANY primer, the key is DO NOT force a seating! IF it don't feel right STOP!

If you want to do different calibers ( I do 4 different ones) its best to buy the complete shell plate carrier, a turret with the dies set up and a powder measure for each caliber so you don't have to switch it out. It does add up as each caliber will cost you about $100 each plus the dies but your probably already have those.

kcbrown
12-25-2009, 20:16
I have a Dillon 650 with casefeeder that I've been using to produce 9mm, and it's done a good job of it for the most part (I've had to tighten up the primer punch assembly and adjust and tighten the casefeeder mechanism -- these things probably worked slightly loose during shipping or something and eventually started to cause operational issues). It has given me valuable experience with a progressive press.

I've started shooting .40 and my LCT just isn't fast enough for my purposes. Since .40 is a more demanding round than 9mm, I decided I would switch the 650 to .40 production, but that left me with doing 9mm on the LCT which is too slow for my purposes (having a good progressive has spoiled me rotten!).

Enter the Lee Pro 1000. I knew I wanted a progressive press, I wanted something relatively small, something dirt simple, and something I knew was possible to get operating properly (only half the reviews are negative, after all, so some people are getting it to work reliably). Having only 3 stations shouldn't be a problem.

And, frankly, I was looking forward to the challenge of getting a press known for being finicky and making it rock-solid reliable. And the price made it a no-brainer.

I knew going into it, as a result of much reading, that if I wanted it to produce ammo reliably, I would have to set everything up properly and perhaps even take steps to address any deficiencies I ran across. This is not the sort of press you just mount to the bench and start production with. You have to operate it and watch it to learn exactly how it does everything it does.

So I started setting it up and playing with it last night.

The first thing I did was to start running cases through it to get a feel for how the casefeeder slide mechanism worked, how the shellplate indexing worked, etc. I adjusted the shellplate indexing so that the casefeeder mechanism was as reliable as possible. But hmm...looks like to accomplish that, the indexing causes the case cutouts in the shellplate to travel slightly past the ideal point relative to the priming pin, so that the priming pin isn't centered within the case cutouts. Hmm...maybe that won't matter.

There was only one way to find out! To experiment with and verify the operation of the priming system, I carefully placed a number of spent primers in the primer feed tray (oriented properly) and fed cases into the press by placing them individually in front of the case feeder pusher and letting it slide the cases into place. The priming system wasn't as reliable as I wanted: sometimes the primer could be pushed into place but other times it couldn't. When it couldn't, this left a primer sitting on the pin (at best! Sometimes the primer would tip sideways). So I reset the indexing such that the priming pin would be centered in the case cutout in the shellplate when it indexed.

However, when the shellplate is set up to index in such a way as to maximize the reliability of the priming step (i.e., set up so that the primer punch is centered within the case cutout in the shellplate), the case feeder would often misfeed a case, by causing the case to be tipped slightly sideways in such a way that only one side of the case would engage the lip in the case cutout. The other side would be sitting above the lip.

And so I had my first engineering challenge on my hands. How to arrange things so that both the casefeeder and the priming system worked reliably at the same time?

What I noticed was that when the case pusher was located such that the case was just touching where the edge of the shellplate would be, the shellplate hadn't quite finished indexing. It was very close, but not quite there.

Clearly, you really don't want the pusher to start pushing the case into the cutout in the shellplate until well after the shellplate has stopped moving. The current setup basically has the case pusher too close to the shellplate. It therefore needs to somehow be moved slightly further away.

So what I did was to find the drill bit that matched the size of the hole in the case pusher into which the z-bar fits and to drill a hole next to the one that is already there, so the new hole is slightly closer to the front of the case pusher than the original hole.

A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4214939268_6634403471_o.jpg


The slider as it came had the two leftmost holes. As you can see, I drilled a third hole. The only problem with that hole is that it doesn't have the additional reinforcing material on the inside the way the original (now middle) hole does. I'm tempted to put some sort of reinforcing material in there but the thickness of the surface into which I drilled the hole is sufficient for now.

The location of the new hole is such that with the ram all the way down, a slight amount of tension is put on the casefeeder slide with the slide at the forward stop. It should be enough to ensure that cases get pushed all the way into the cutout but not so much as to bend or break anything if the case is stubborn and won't go in. But the difference it makes in the timing of when the case arrives at the shellplate is significant. At that point, the shellplate has easily stopped rotating and is in proper position to accept a new case. And it's also aligned such that the primer punch is located properly within the case cutout.

I haven't loaded any real ammo with this setup yet. I've yet to set up the dies exactly the way I want them to be. It appears the factory did a decent job with the sizing die, at least.

What I wonder is whether or not I should take the entire thing apart first. I'm tempted, but my tests show the press to be reliable at the moment, so maybe I should leave well enough alone...


The next thing on my list of mods is to fix the case collator so that it reliably feeds 9mm brass right-side-up. Seems to me the most reliable answer would be to place inserts into the holes in the collator to reduce the effective diameter of the holes. Maybe it's possible to get PVC pipe or something that would be the right size for both the inside and the outside diameters...


Merry Christmas, everyone!

GioaJack
12-26-2009, 09:54
WOW... I'd be tempted to fire the maid and hire an extra butler just to get the thing set up. Then again if I was going to dedicate it to just one caliber spent a few more bucks on a SDB or a 550B or a LNL.

You sir are a far better man than I... I don't have that much patience, or mechanical inclination. Merry frustrating Christmas. :supergrin:

Jack

0-16
12-26-2009, 13:22
I bought a used lee pro 1000. When it works, it's great. Patience is very important when it's not working though. Like everyone else who has owned one, the primer system needs to stay clean and full. I use it only for 45s and my LCT for everything else.

WiskyT
12-26-2009, 19:09
Okay, the 1000 works. It needs tinkering. So does my fathers 650 and freakshow's 1050. That's not what matters. What matters is who does the tinkering, are they a good tinker? For instance, the poster had an issue with his cases feeding, so he drilled an extra hole in the feed shoe. That was a wrong turn. His z bar is off, his shell plate is out of time, his sheel plate is dirty, something, anything, but not the hole in the feed shoe. So he will now proceed to "fix" the rest of the press to fit the altered shoe. His entire press will be exactly the distance, center to center, of the two holes, OFF everywhere else.

My 1000 is over 20 years old. Parts have worn out, curses on the Lee family have been uttered, but it still runs great and makes ammo all day long.

Here are a couple of hints. The primer feed tray can only be so clean and so full. Yes it needs to be clean and full, but scrubbing it every ten minutes and topping off the feed tray is stupid. If it is clean and full and it doesn't work, LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE. I clean my 1000 about once a year. Crud builds under the shell plate and slows down the indexing. this causes primer feed problems. FOLLOW the DIRECTIONS for adjusting the indexing. Any deviation and you will be cleaning your primer feed chute for now reason and still not getting good primer feeding.

Another cause of primer jams is OPERATOR ERROR. All the cleaning in the world will not make up for a ham-fisted operator. UP and DOWN. Just like that. Even speed thoughout the stroke.

kcbrown
12-27-2009, 03:38
Okay, the 1000 works. It needs tinkering. So does my fathers 650 and freakshow's 1050. That's not what matters. What matters is who does the tinkering, are they a good tinker? For instance, the poster had an issue with his cases feeding, so he drilled an extra hole in the feed shoe. That was a wrong turn. His z bar is off, his shell plate is out of time, his sheel plate is dirty, something, anything, but not the hole in the feed shoe.


Well, certainly something's off. But the shell plate itself isn't out of time unless the indexing rod has its spiral section in the wrong location. It may be dirty but this is a brand new press, and the shellplate turns very freely when it's not engaging the spiral section of the center post (the only noticeable friction is from the ball that sits underneath it).

Replacing relevant parts one at a time in the hope that it fixes the problem isn't the way I generally like to solve problems. I like to understand how the mechanism works and what steps I can take to address any problems with it.

Drilling a hole in the feed shoe was the most direct way of adjusting the timing between it and the shellplate. Anything else almost certainly would have required that I order additional parts. Maybe you consider the modification I performed to be an incorrect solution. However, if it's an incorrect solution, why does the press in its entirety function perfectly with that modification?

The only thing that would have improved this would either be a longer z bar, a shorter case pusher, or a center rod with the spiral section located higher.

I plan to take the shellplate carrier apart, but if I find nothing wrong with it then I'll be left either with methodical replacement of parts or leaving the press as it is. If it works properly as it is, what would be the point of screwing with replacement parts? Not that it would be a horrible thing to have such parts on hand in any case...



So he will now proceed to "fix" the rest of the press to fit the altered shoe. His entire press will be exactly the distance, center to center, of the two holes, OFF everywhere else.
That turns out not to be the case, and if you examine the design of the casefeeder versus the indexing, you'll see that what you say here cannot be true. The casefeeder just pushes a case into the shellplate. As long as the shellplate has stopped before the case gets to it and the casefeeder shoe pushes the case completely into the shellplate, everything will work. All my modification did was to ensure that by the time the case got to the shellplate, the shellplate was guaranteed to have stopped and settled.

I just finished loading 400 rounds with the press. The casefeeder functioned perfectly. There were a few instances where the indexing literally stopped in the middle of the rotation for no apparent reason (the shellplate moved freely at that point, so if something was binding it must have been very temporary). I may have to take the shellplate carrier apart to see if there's anything damaged in there and to learn exactly how the mechanism works, but whatever is going on, it is not consistent, occurring perhaps once every 70 rounds on average.


Oh, and the priming system functioned perfectly as well, except when I let the primer supply run too low. I already knew it would give problems under those conditions and knew exactly what to expect and how to fix it.




My 1000 is over 20 years old. Parts have worn out, curses on the Lee family have been uttered, but it still runs great and makes ammo all day long.

Here are a couple of hints. The primer feed tray can only be so clean and so full. Yes it needs to be clean and full, but scrubbing it every ten minutes and topping off the feed tray is stupid. If it is clean and full and it doesn't work, LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE. I clean my 1000 about once a year. Crud builds under the shell plate and slows down the indexing. this causes primer feed problems. FOLLOW the DIRECTIONS for adjusting the indexing. Any deviation and you will be cleaning your primer feed chute for now reason and still not getting good primer feeding.
About how many rounds do you figure you load with it between cleanings?



Another cause of primer jams is OPERATOR ERROR. All the cleaning in the world will not make up for a ham-fisted operator. UP and DOWN. Just like that. Even speed thoughout the stroke.Yep.

The feel of the priming mechanism is remarkably similar to that of the Dillon 650, actually. I use very smooth and relatively slow motions with these presses. I can feel when the primer contacts the pocket and when it bottoms out. Because I move the arm relatively slowly, I can feel when a primer is not seating properly and stop in time not only to fix the problem, but also, generally, without damage to the primer in question.


Thus far, I'm rather pleased with the performance of my Pro 1000. The indexing mechanism does cause a tiny bit of powder to spill out of the cases when the shellplate rotates into position, thanks to the ball and spring that create a positive stop. My 650 does the same thing, so I'm not at all concerned about it. And getting through the last few primers is annoying but possible -- I use a tie wrap as a pusher. Doing this right is tricky: you have to use the right amount of pressure at the right time for the right duration. Too little and the primer won't locate itself above the priming pin. Too much and it'll flip the primer or something of that sort.

The press could use a bit more leverage, but it works and that's what counts. The primer tray shaker mechanism induces a decent amount of friction. A very thin layer of grease along the path the shaker pin takes helps a bit. This looks to me like something that could use improvement but I'll have to give some thought about how to accomplish that.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing what sort of progressive press based on the LCT Lee will come out with, if any. The LCT seems to have plenty of leverage. Whatever they come out with, I certainly hope it has a priming system that requires that you push forward like you do on the Pro 1000 and the Dillon 650, since it's the only way you're going to really feel the primer go into the pocket.

WiskyT
12-27-2009, 12:32
So he will now proceed to "fix" the rest of the press to fit the altered shoe. His entire press will be exactly the distance, center to center, of the two holes, OFF everywhere else.

Okay, I was just having a little fun with you on this part. I have seen things in my life "fixed" like this though. I've seen a guy put the track on the bottom of a drawer backwards. The drawer was then 1/2" to far to the left, so he hogged out the hole in the dresser for the drawer.

There is a plastic gear in the shellplate that advances things. It is VERY easily damaged. Check that part out. One wrong move while setting the timing can wipe it out. So can reversing the shellplate at the wrong time. You don't need a pipe wrench to wreck it. Order a couple, they're cheap, and good to have around.

It sounds to me like your plate is not indexing properly. That gear might be wiped out, or it might need another quarter turn on the adjusting screw. The screw should be turned until the plate locks into position, and then turned a little bit more.

Also, look at the part Lee calls the "drive bolt". When he says to use finger pressure only to tighten, he really means it. It is so soft it feels like it's made out of lead. You can get into trouble with that thing while disassembling the shellplate. It's a reverse thread and if you forget, you will tighten it while trying tot take it off. Now it will be too tight and need pliers to remove, which WILL ruin it. Get a couple of those when you order the white plastic gear.

You didn't damage anything with your extra hole, and I don't think you moved the entire universe 0.25" to the left, but I bet when you get this all figured out, you won't need the "extra" hole.

kcbrown
12-27-2009, 13:57
Okay, I was just having a little fun with you on this part. I have seen things in my life "fixed" like this though. I've seen a guy put the track on the bottom of a drawer backwards. The drawer was then 1/2" to far to the left, so he hogged out the hole in the dresser for the drawer.


Ah, okay. No worries. I certainly understand the concern you were expressing, it's just that it doesn't apply in this instance.

I have something of an engineering mindset, so I don't like to fix something improperly. I like to understand how something actually works and to get at the root cause of any problem, and where that's not possible I like to fix the problem with minimal side effects. I arrived at my solution to the problem as a result of studying the press, and assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that it was possible for the press to have been manufactured slightly incorrectly or for the various tolerances to stack up in such a way that they caused the problem. Or something.

When I ordered the press, I ordered spares of just about everything that Midway had available. One of those parts was an extra z bar. So I removed the z bar from my press and compared it against the spare. They are dimensionally identical.

I then noticed that the tab towards the top of the press that the z bar fits into can move forwards and backwards slightly. So I put the z bar back into place in its original configuration (in the hole that is now the middle hole), pulled the tab as far to the rear as it would go, and ran a bunch of cases through the press (with the powder feed disabled and the sizing die removed).

They all fed perfectly.

I then moved the tab to the forwardmost position and ran a bunch more cases.

They all fed perfectly.

Whatever the original problem I had with the case feeder, it appears to be gone now.

The advantage of the factory setup is that it is capable of placing more pressure on the case to push it into the shellplate, if that should prove necessary. I'll leave the press in that configuration for the next batch and we'll see how it goes.



There is a plastic gear in the shellplate that advances things. It is VERY easily damaged. Check that part out. One wrong move while setting the timing can wipe it out. So can reversing the shellplate at the wrong time. You don't need a pipe wrench to wreck it. Order a couple, they're cheap, and good to have around.
Is this the hex ratchet you speak of, or the gear itself? Sadly, Midway didn't seem to have the gear itself, else I would have ordered some. I presume Lee is the best source for these?



It sounds to me like your plate is not indexing properly. That gear might be wiped out, or it might need another quarter turn on the adjusting screw. The screw should be turned until the plate locks into position, and then turned a little bit more.
The plate already locks into position. How can I tell whether the screw needs to be turned any more? How do I "reset" the indexing so that I can redo the procedure? By turning the screw counterclockwise until the shellplate will no longer quite make it to the proper position?

Note that I ran into problems with the casefeeder with the shellplate indexing set properly as per the instructions.

I see the problem with the shellplate rotating halfway only once every roughly 100 pulls of the handle. If there's a damaged part in there, wouldn't it cause more consistent problems than this?



Also, look at the part Lee calls the "drive bolt". When he says to use finger pressure only to tighten, he really means it. It is so soft it feels like it's made out of lead. You can get into trouble with that thing while disassembling the shellplate. It's a reverse thread and if you forget, you will tighten it while trying tot take it off. Now it will be too tight and need pliers to remove, which WILL ruin it. Get a couple of those when you order the white plastic gear.
This is good to know. I haven't taken the shell carrier off and apart yet, but will certainly be mindful of this.

If it take only finger pressure to tighten it, I presume it should only take finger pressure to loosen it?

I'm a "minimum force" kinda guy. Things tend to last a very long time under my care.



You didn't damage anything with your extra hole, and I don't think you moved the entire universe 0.25" to the left, but I bet when you get this all figured out, you won't need the "extra" hole.It appears I already don't, interestingly enough.

I'll report back when I've taken the shellplate carrier apart. Somehow I suspect I won't find anything, but you never know...

fkenyon
12-27-2009, 17:20
I see the problem with the shellplate rotating halfway only once every roughly 100 pulls of the handle. If there's a damaged part in there, wouldn't it cause more consistent problems than this?

I can do this with mine on purpose,and don't think this is either a defect or a problem. In fact, it is very handy.

The indexing screw is on a worm gear. You can turn it all you want. Just follow Lees directions. YOU READ THOSE, RIGHT?

kcbrown
12-27-2009, 18:31
As I mentioned before, I loaded 400 rounds with my Pro 1000 last night. What I didn't mention was that I had modified the case collator to reliably drop 9mm cases.

Here's what I did.


I got some of these PVC elbows at Lowe's:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2732/4220047331_41cd5a7ac9_o.jpg


One end (at the top of the picture above) has an OD (outside diameter) of 0.5 in, which is perfect for this application. They also had 0.5in OD PVC pipe, but I think the ID (inside diameter) was slightly too small.

Anyway, you should be able to find something suitable like that.

In my case, I cut the 0.5in OD sections off of four of the elbows and used them as inserts. They go in with a bit of resistance, but you can press them in by hand easily enough.

Here's the end result:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/4220047319_4ac1d9c54d_o.jpg


With the inserts in place, I get nearly flawless feeding of 9mm cases. I've had one upside down case in about 500.

kcbrown
12-27-2009, 18:33
I see the problem with the shellplate rotating halfway only once every roughly 100 pulls of the handle. If there's a damaged part in there, wouldn't it cause more consistent problems than this?

I can do this with mine on purpose,and don't think this is either a defect or a problem. In fact, it is very handy.


Yes, but I'm getting that occasionally with a full stroke. In other words, it's not indexing halfway as a result of any purposeful or accidental action I'm taking.


The indexing screw is on a worm gear. You can turn it all you want. Just follow Lees directions. YOU READ THOSE, RIGHT?Of course.

What they don't make clear is whether or not it is safe to turn the screw the opposite direction (counterclockwise). <strike>But if it's on a worm gear, there should be no problem with turning it in either direction.</strike> ETA: As it turns out, Lee's FAQ makes it clear that it should be turned clockwise only, and that if you need to go past the current detent you can.

VN350X10
12-27-2009, 22:59
I have a Lee 1000, Dillon SDB, XL650, 1050 & a 550 all on my bench at the same time.
That said, I have the Lee dedicated to 9mm ammo.
I LIKE the idea of reducing the hole size on the case collomater & will do that.
Now for my tip...
Keep the priming system clean, BUT....lube it with powdered graphite, I use a lock type applicator & give the tray a "puff" of graphite every 2 boxes of primers (200 rds.)
The system runs more smoothly, graphite won't hurt the powder if it gets in thru the flash hole, the primers seat a bit easier & the graphite will burnish into the plastic ramp of the feed system, making the primers slide easier as time goes on.
Mine will run reliabily down to 8-10 primers ! But the best bet is to refill the tray as soon as the primers are down in the ramp by 1 or 2, it's just the way the system works.
It's no Dillon, but I've loaded well over 20K rounds of 9mm on mine, & it still works fine.
A few mods along the way, but nothing major except removing the "lamp chain" & replacing it with a governor return spring from a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton engine !
More positive on the powder measure return.

uncle albert

kcbrown
12-28-2009, 17:57
I have a Lee 1000, Dillon SDB, XL650, 1050 & a 550 all on my bench at the same time.
That said, I have the Lee dedicated to 9mm ammo.
I LIKE the idea of reducing the hole size on the case collomater & will do that.


It does seem to be effective...



Now for my tip...
Keep the priming system clean, BUT....lube it with powdered graphite, I use a lock type applicator & give the tray a "puff" of graphite every 2 boxes of primers (200 rds.)


I got some graphite lube. I'll have to do this.


The system runs more smoothly, graphite won't hurt the powder if it gets in thru the flash hole, the primers seat a bit easier & the graphite will burnish into the plastic ramp of the feed system, making the primers slide easier as time goes on.
Mine will run reliabily down to 8-10 primers ! But the best bet is to refill the tray as soon as the primers are down in the ramp by 1 or 2, it's just the way the system works.


Yep. Mine, being brand new, will also run until it's down to 8-10 primers. But I do try to keep an eye on it and to fill it back up unless I'm doing the last part of the batch (in which case I'll use a tie wrap to put a little bit of pressure on the primer stack to keep them moving along until there are none left).



A few mods along the way, but nothing major except removing the "lamp chain" & replacing it with a governor return spring from a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton engine !
More positive on the powder measure return.


I simply pulled the powder measure from my LCT and put it on my Pro 1000. It is set up with the return spring, which seems to be plenty stout.

I'm not worried about double charges in the case. I always peer into the case prior to seating the bullet to ensure there's a charge and that it's roughly at the right level. I do this with my Dillon, too, even though I'm using the RCBS lockout die with it.

I think it pays, in terms of safety, to take this stuff seriously.

Singlestack Wonder
12-28-2009, 18:07
Drop the bucks and get Dillon. Spend your time producing quality loads, not fixing or re-engineering the Lee's.

kcbrown
12-28-2009, 18:42
A few mods along the way, but nothing major except removing the "lamp chain" & replacing it with a governor return spring from a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton engine !
More positive on the powder measure return.


Aside from the beefy return spring, what mods have you made to your Pro 1000?

kcbrown
12-28-2009, 18:50
Drop the bucks and get Dillon. Spend your time producing quality loads, not fixing or re-engineering the Lee's.

If you only want one press and have the cash, then I totally agree: get the Dillon.

But if you already have a Dillon and want a second progressive press, the Pro 1000 isn't a bad way to go at all. After all, if it's reliability you need, you already have it (since you already have a Dillon). And you already have experience with a progressive press, so you're past the beginner's learning curve.

I suspect that, unless you have a defective press, the Pro 1000 will crank out the ammo with decent reliability. I don't expect it to be as reliable as a Dillon, of course, but I don't expect to have a stoppage every 10 rounds or so, either, as long as I do my part and heed the operational requirements of the press.

WiskyT
12-28-2009, 19:17
Is this the hex ratchet you speak of, or the gear itself? Sadly, Midway didn't seem to have the gear itself, else I would have ordered some. I presume Lee is the best source for these?


Yeah, hex ratchet. The little white nylon thingy. I think I got a bunch of small parts from Lee.


If it take only finger pressure to tighten it, I presume it should only take finger pressure to loosen it?

Yes, finger pressure only. Over time powder and dust can get into the threads and make it hard to undo. When that happens, you need a really clean and strong set of fingers to get a good grip on it. the less tight you make it when you install it, the easier it is to take it appart.

kcbrown
12-28-2009, 20:19
Yeah, hex ratchet. The little white nylon thingy. I think I got a bunch of small parts from Lee.


Well, there are two nylon pieces, it seems. There's the hex ratchet (PN TA2368), and then there's the ratchet gear (PN TR2432).

I have plenty of spares of the hex ratchet, but none of the ratchet gear.

It sounds like it's the hex ratchet (PN TA2368) that is easily damaged, and the fact that Midway carries them and not the ratchet gear supports this, but I wanted to make sure that indeed is what you're referring to.



Yes, finger pressure only. Over time powder and dust can get into the threads and make it hard to undo. When that happens, you need a really clean and strong set of fingers to get a good grip on it. the less tight you make it when you install it, the easier it is to take it appart.With the shellplate carrier out, they suggest using a hex wrench to remove the shellplate, but unless the threads are clogged it sounds like it shouldn't be necessary to use it.

Like I said, I tend to be a "minimal force" kinda guy. So with that in mind, how little tightening can I get away with when installing the shellplate? Can I install it such that I stop tightening it right when I feel an increase in resistance, or is that too little?

VN350X10
12-28-2009, 21:07
One of my other mods was to replace the straight pc. of piano wire that kicks out the loaded round & make one with more of an "S" bend to it.
Ejection of loaded rounds is a bit smoother, making the entire press run better.
Also, to insure against double charges, I always use a powder that fills more than 1/2 the case volume, in the case of my 9mm, the powder (Vhit N320) is only about 1/8" below the case mouth before seating the bullet.
No, this isn't the cheapest load I can use for USPSA minor, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to double charge a case. I feel the cost of the powder is totally insiginificant, as compared to a blown up pistol !
I also seat the bullet as far out as I can within the limits of the Glock magazines, as my load is slightly over (new) book, although it was under max 3 or 4 manuals ago. I've been using the same load in USPSA for 8 or 9 years.

uncle albert

Colorado4Wheel
12-28-2009, 21:50
Also, to insure against double charges, I always use a powder that fills more than 1/2 the case volume, in the case of my 9mm, the powder (Vhit N320) is only about 1/8" below the case mouth before seating the bullet.
No, this isn't the cheapest load I can use

Solo1000 will overflow with a double charge as well.

JerryO
12-28-2009, 22:00
It's great seeing my old pro1000 is still used by some people. I found it to be very reliable and fun to use. However, I never used the case feed tubes, as I can drop a case with my left hand while I run the handle with my right hand.

This allows the shellplate to be changed by lifting the turret off and turning the index rod backward to remove the shellplate nut. I use this press to load several calibers, so changeing the shellplate is importand to me. Though I have only shot .22 rimfire for a couple of years.

One hint: I took a flashlight LED and put it in a hole I drilled in turret such that it shines into the case and lights the powder level.


Good Loading!!

JerryO

VN350X10
12-28-2009, 22:00
Solo 1000 is an excellent 9mm powder for this reason. I don't use it, but I know several shooters that do & it's great.
KB's are just SOOOOOOO ugly !

uncle albert

kcbrown
12-29-2009, 01:38
I use 5.3 grains of Silhouette or, sometimes, 4.2 grains of Titegroup (with 124 or 125 grain bullets). Both fill the case approximately the same amount: just a bit under halfway.

A double charge would easily be visibly different. I always look into the case before seating the bullet, and won't do so if the powder level looks wrong. On my Dillon I have an RCBS lockout die, but I always peer into the case prior to seating the bullet anyway.

My experience with the Dillon is what gave me enough confidence to go with the Pro 1000, knowing that my reloading procedures are likely to be correct for it since they are very similar operationally. The Pro 1000 requires more attention but has fewer stations to watch and is smaller, so it's easier to keep an eye on everything.

kcbrown
12-29-2009, 07:10
Just in case, I reindexed the shellplate per the instructions. We'll see if the partial indexing issue resurfaces. I checked the casefeeder function after doing so and it still functions properly.

WiskyT
12-29-2009, 18:41
Well, there are two nylon pieces, it seems. There's the hex ratchet (PN TA2368), and then there's the ratchet gear (PN TR2432).

I have plenty of spares of the hex ratchet, but none of the ratchet gear.

It sounds like it's the hex ratchet (PN TA2368) that is easily damaged, and the fact that Midway carries them and not the ratchet gear supports this, but I wanted to make sure that indeed is what you're referring to.


With the shellplate carrier out, they suggest using a hex wrench to remove the shellplate, but unless the threads are clogged it sounds like it shouldn't be necessary to use it.

Like I said, I tend to be a "minimal force" kinda guy. So with that in mind, how little tightening can I get away with when installing the shellplate? Can I install it such that I stop tightening it right when I feel an increase in resistance, or is that too little?

It's the auto indexing hex ratchet. I have an unopened blister pack of three, so I guess I never needed it and just thought it was good to have. I opened the box of small Lee parts I have and dropped a shell plate on my foot to check, so I hope you're happy.

I forgot about the allen wrench to remove the shell plate, that's a good way to do it. As for how tight to make it, really just snug is good enough. I hold tthe drive bolt as tight as I can with my finger tips and turn the shell plate to tighten it and I never had a problem doing that.

kcbrown
12-30-2009, 05:52
It's the auto indexing hex ratchet. I have an unopened blister pack of three, so I guess I never needed it and just thought it was good to have. I opened the box of small Lee parts I have and dropped a shell plate on my foot to check, so I hope you're happy.


Hmm...I don't remember anything in the instructions that said you had to drop the shell plate on your foot as part of the disassembly process... :tongueout:

Anyway, many thanks for your courageous sacrifice! It shall be remembered with honor. :supergrin:



I forgot about the allen wrench to remove the shell plate, that's a good way to do it. As for how tight to make it, really just snug is good enough. I hold tthe drive bolt as tight as I can with my finger tips and turn the shell plate to tighten it and I never had a problem doing that.

OK, this is very good to know. Thanks!

I'll probably load up another few hundred in the next couple of days or so. We'll see how well it does this time. All in all, it did pretty well the last time.

kcbrown
12-31-2009, 01:46
I loaded up another 200 rounds tonight with my Pro 1000.

The press functioned flawlessly. Not a single failure to properly index, not a single failure to feed a case, and not a single failure to properly prime a case. And this was with the z bar located in the proper hole, not the one I drilled.

It seems reindexing the press was the hot ticket for fixing the occasional half-index issue I had previously.

This time I sprayed a little Hornady One Shot case lube on the batch of cases I used, and that made the press considerably easier to use. That may have contributed to the reliability, though I doubt it since the press is mounted to an essentially immovable bench.

Anyway, time will tell but this seems to be a nice, reliable press, and the price was unbeatable. I think I'll keep it. :supergrin:

kcbrown
12-31-2009, 08:44
During some additional testing (more about that in a moment), the shellplate indexed halfway again. :upeyes:

So I decided to take the shellplate carrier off and pull it apart to inspect all the parts.

And guess what I found?


...


Nothing!

None of the parts were damaged. Everything looked good, everything fit together properly.

That's just as I expected. When I experience problems, they almost never have plainly visible causes.

There was a slight amount of dirty lubricant in the hex ratchet and the ratchet gear, but not nearly enough that it should have interfered with anything.

Even so, I decided to go ahead and replace the hex ratchet. Maybe I missed something subtle (don't think so, though).

Lee suggests in their troubleshooting section that if the shellplate indexes halfway, then the shellplate drive bolt may be damaged. It looked completely intact to me -- no visible damage at all.


I guess if it persists I may call Lee and ask if they have any idea what may be causing it to occasionally do that, but otherwise I'll just live with it. It does it only occasionally, and it's not terribly difficult to deal with it when it happens (the indexing works fine without adjustment after it happens).


So what was I experimenting with? Well, as it happens, it looked to me like the sizing die was a bit aggressive, and as I mentioned before, using some lube made it significantly easier to use the press. I had cleaned my cases with Nu Finish and mineral spirits and noticed that a thin film was being pushed down to the base of the cases as they were being sized, leaving a nice ring around the base. So I tried cleaning the cases with just mineral spirits to see how well the sizing die would work with them. It did roughly the same thing, actually, but not quite to the same degree. It was still harder to size a case than I was hoping. I actually have two Lee sizing dies in 9mm, and they both behaved the same way (with the newer of the two going slightly further down).

So I took my Dillon 9mm sizing die off my 650 and put it onto the Pro 1000. What a difference! Sizing the cases became considerably easier. The sized section was still visible enough to make it clear that while the Dillon die wasn't sizing quite as far down on the case as the Lee, it was very close. All the resized brass I tested passed the case gage.

So I'm going to try my next batch with the Dillon sizing die in place of the Lee. The press is back together and indexes properly. Cases feed reliably and properly.


What's not clear to me is exactly what should be lubricated and what it should be lubricated with. The instructions that came with the press say nothing about this, just that it should be kept well oiled. I suppose I might call Lee about that as well. I've greased the ram and lubricated the edges of the case feeder slide with silicone oil (being careful not to get any lubricant on the top of the slide). I've not applied any lubricant to the indexing rod, since the ratcheting system is nylon and I don't want to damage it or adversely affect its operation. I've applied no lubricant at all to the shellplate since I expect that doing so could adversely affect the priming system -- it's vitally important that no lubricant reach it at all.

If you've got lubrication tips for this press, I'm all ears.

WiskyT
12-31-2009, 10:27
Lube the indexing rod with a few drops of oil. It has metal to metal contact with the drive bolt. Ram is good to oil as you determined. Don't oil under the shell plate as this will atract mucho crud from primer dust etc. The beam that the case feeder slides on could be hit with a little silicone, no harm, but what I did was clean it up with scotch pad. This broke the burrs off the shapr edges and made the slider glide better.

I don't lube cases. I just push harder:supergrin: Lee says to lube about 1/3 of the cases with spray on furniture polish like pledge. You have to use the kind with wax in it. If you buy the one with "no wax build up" it does nothing. It's just a cleaner. I have done this and it really makes it easier. It makes your cases smell lemon fresh too, seriously, they smell great. Just grab a handful of the cases you are going to reaload and put them in a container. Ac ouple of quick shots with the Pledge and mix them back in with the unlubed ones. Don't worry about the foamy Pledge inside the cases, it doesn't effect the powder etc. I'll get back to doing it this way now that you reminded me of it.

Also, polishing cases increases the effort to resize them. I don't clean mine. The carbon acts as a case lube. My cases look like ass, but it saves a lot of time and trouble and I'm not going to polish anything that isn't connected to my body...

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 14:32
I took 25 cases out of a group of 100 I was going to reload (40SW). I put them in a box and hit them with two quick bursts of furniture polish, maybe one second total spraying. I threw the other 75 in the box and shook them around and ran them throught the 1000. The furniture polish really reduced the effort to pull the handle. I think it saves the pivot points in the linkage a lot of stress too. I'm going to continue to load like this from now on and can't figure out how I got away from it.

kcbrown
01-01-2010, 17:21
The problem with lubing the indexing rod is that it'll get lube on the hex ratchet where it makes contact with the indexing rod. And I would expect that to interfere with indexing -- it would make it easier for it to slip while turning the shellplate.

While there's metal to metal contact between the indexing rod and the drive bolt, the contact itself isn't under high pressure or anything. It's not clear that it needs lubrication. I guess if I lubricate any area of the indexing rod, it would be the area that the drive bolt passes over that the hex ratchet does not. But I'm concerned about the drive bolt spreading it over the rest of the indexing rod and the hex ratchet picking it up.

How and why this is supposed to be lubricated is one of the things I'll ask Lee when I call them.

jdavionic
01-01-2010, 17:21
I've got a Pro 1000. I played with it quite a bit trying to get the cases and primers to feed reliably. I consistently found that both were mutually exclusive. I finally resigned to -

Use my single stage press to decap / size.

Use hand primer to prime the shells.

Use the Pro 1000 with the stages -
stage 1 = flare / charge with the Auto Disk
stage 2 = bullet seating
stage 3 = Lee factory crimp

Obviously this is not ideal. But after many 1000s, I find that it works best for me. No frustrations. And my rounds have been consistent and reliable.

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 17:25
The problem with lubing the indexing rod is that it'll get lube on the hex ratchet where it makes contact with the indexing rod. And I would expect that to interfere with indexing -- it would make it easier for it to slip while turning the shellplate.

While there's metal to metal contact between the indexing rod and the drive bolt, the contact itself isn't under high pressure or anything. It's not clear that it needs lubrication. I guess if I lubricate any area of the indexing rod, it would be the area that the drive bolt passes over that the hex ratchet does not. But I'm concerned about the indexing rod spreading it over the rest of the indexing rod and the hex ratchet picking it up.

How and why this is supposed to be lubricated is one of the things I'll ask Lee when I call them.

I just put a drop here and there when it gets dry every few months on the rod. Between gravity and the passing of the rod through the shellplate, I'm sure it gets down in where you don't want it. It has never caused a problem.

ETA: The rod doesn't bear any load through most of it's travel, but when the twisted part passes through the parts that index the shell plate, It is going to have a load on it.

jdavionic
01-01-2010, 17:27
I just put a drop here and there when it gets dry every few months on the rod. Between gravity and the passing of the rod through the shellplate, I'm sure it gets down in where you don't want it. It has never caused a problem.

I use Gun Butter on mine. Works well.

dudel
01-01-2010, 17:29
The problem with lubing the indexing rod is that it'll get lube on the hex ratchet where it makes contact with the indexing rod. And I would expect that to interfere with indexing -- it would make it easier for it to slip while turning the shellplate.

While there's metal to metal contact between the indexing rod and the drive bolt, the contact itself isn't under high pressure or anything. It's not clear that it needs lubrication. I guess if I lubricate any area of the indexing rod, it would be the area that the drive bolt passes over that the hex ratchet does not. But I'm concerned about the indexing rod spreading it over the rest of the indexing rod and the hex ratchet picking it up.

How and why this is supposed to be lubricated is one of the things I'll ask Lee when I call them.

KC,

If it's the twisted rod that turns the turret, I lubed mine at first. Several people here recommended that it run dry. It is after all, steel and nylon/delrin. Mine ran better try than it did lubed. Dry also collected less grit/gunk in the "square ratchet bit" that you can't see unless you take apart the unit it's in. FWIW, mine ran better dry. YMMV

Don

schild
01-01-2010, 17:33
I had two Lee 1000's, I altered them quite a bit to keep them running and eventually stripped one for parts. The best thing I ever did to my two Lee presses was throw them in the garbage 17 or 18 years ago when I got my Dillion 650.

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 17:34
I use Gun Butter on mine. Works well.

I use whatever I can reach without having to get out of my chair. Sometimes I even use my calipers to knock something off the shelf. Most of the time it's Hoppe's liquid grease. I'm that lazy. i once called my wife intot he room under the guise that I wanted to tell her i love her, while she was in the room I asked her to get me the remote off of the coffee table

kcbrown
01-01-2010, 19:30
KC,

If it's the twisted rod that turns the turret, I lubed mine at first. Several people here recommended that it run dry. It is after all, steel and nylon/delrin. Mine ran better try than it did lubed. Dry also collected less grit/gunk in the "square ratchet bit" that you can't see unless you take apart the unit it's in. FWIW, mine ran better dry. YMMV


Yeah, the Pro 1000 turns the shellplate instead of the turret, but it's built very much the same as the LCT.

The Pro 1000 has a shellplate drive bolt that is steel or aluminum (the latter, I think) and instead of the indexing rod rotating the turret, it rotates the shellplate through the drive bolt instead. So there is metal to metal contact and it is under a little pressure during rotation -- but, generally, only a little.

I'm inclined to run it dry. Should be interesting to see what Lee says. I'll ask for an explanation of any answer they come up with.

kcbrown
01-01-2010, 19:32
I had two Lee 1000's, I altered them quite a bit to keep them running and eventually stripped one for parts. The best thing I ever did to my two Lee presses was throw them in the garbage 17 or 18 years ago when I got my Dillion 650.

Already have a Dillon 650, so I'm covered there. :supergrin:

It should be possible to make this press run reliably. It's only a question of how.

dudel
01-02-2010, 03:59
Already have a Dillon 650, so I'm covered there. :supergrin:

It should be possible to make this press run reliably. It's only a question of how.

Which begs the question. How long to get it to run reliably, or how long will it run reliably? :supergrin:

I guess the 650 loads ammo so quickly, it gives you time to tinker with the Lee. That in and of itself speaks volumes.

Sort of like my BMW 635. The Acura needs no maintenance, so I can slave over the BMW. :embarassed:

kcbrown
01-02-2010, 07:39
Which begs the question. How long to get it to run reliably, or how long will it run reliably? :supergrin:


Well, it doesn't necessarily beg them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question), but it does raise them. :supergrin:

(Don't worry, lots of people confuse the two, and I knew what you meant)


Both are good questions that I hope to answer through experience!



I guess the 650 loads ammo so quickly, it gives you time to tinker with the Lee. That in and of itself speaks volumes.
Well, the 650 can load ammo really quickly, but my base rate is about the same with both it and the Pro 1000, probably because I'm smooth and methodical with both presses. The 650's ejection mechanism is better but on the Pro 1000 I just swipe the loaded round out of the ejection slider and into the bin, after seating the bullet, in the same motion that I use to grab another bullet. The impact on overall production rate is pretty minimal.

Where the Pro 1000 falls down in speed is with the last few primers of the session, where I have to use something (like a tie wrap) to put some pressure on the primers as the rest of the press operates in order to keep the primer seating trouble-free. Sometimes that doesn't work and I have to manually reposition a primer that's a bit off to the side in the priming mechanism.


I have experienced a couple of failures with the 650 just as I have with the Pro 1000. In the case of my 650, I had a problem with it seating primers high that turned out to be the priming pin assembly having come loose. I also had a problem with the casefeeding system, which turned out to be that the casefeeder cam screw had come loose just enough to cause the cam to move and the casefeed arm was no longer moving the cases into position properly, and as a result proper casefeeding became intermittent.

The difference between the Pro 1000 and the 650 is that I haven't experienced any persistent problems with the 650. At 5 times the price (I have the casefeeder), that's to be expected. The question is whether or not I can eliminate any and all persistent problems with my Pro 1000. The intermittent indexing problem I'm having is an example. Next on my list of steps to take to correct that issue is probably to replace the indexing rod and possibly the drive bolt. I'm going to order a number of spare parts from Lee and I may as well include those in the list.



Sort of like my BMW 635. The Acura needs no maintenance, so I can slave over the BMW. :embarassed:I'm hoping it doesn't wind up being like that. I think it should be possible to make the Pro 1000 a reliable machine by the proper combination of tweaks and operating technique. Only time will tell...

The BMW 635 is a very nice machine, though... :thumbsup:

kcbrown
01-05-2010, 09:34
I didn't manage to get through to Lee via the phone, so I sent them email instead. I guess we'll see what they have to say.

The half-indexing problem got significantly worse even after replacing the hex ratchet. I had refrained from lubricating the indexing rod and I think that put a significant amount of additional wear on the hex ratchet, because once I replaced it and lubricated the indexing rod, the indexing suddenly got a whole lot more reliable.

The indexing problem may have started as a result of me not keeping the indexing rod lubricated.

So as of now, the two things I'll lubricate are the indexing rod and the ram. We'll see how reliable the indexing remains.

kcbrown
01-05-2010, 15:34
And not long after I posted the previous message, I went out and promptly got a number of half-index events. Some of them occurred with no cases in the shellplate.

I also managed to get through to Lee on the phone. Turns out that you are not supposed to lubricate the indexing rod. The guy on the phone was perplexed when I described the indexing problem -- he'd never heard of this problem occurring.

I ordered a number of spare parts, including replacement indexing rods and ratchet gears. I'm now on the third hex ratchet so I suspect that the problem is with the indexing rod. I'll replace it, the ratchet gear, and the hex ratchet at the same time when the parts come in. I would expect that would make this problem disappear.

I asked for a press I could tinker with and I got my wish! :supergrin:

jdavionic
01-05-2010, 16:08
And not long after I posted the previous message, I went out and promptly got a number of half-index events. Some of them occurred with no cases in the shellplate.

I also managed to get through to Lee on the phone. Turns out that you are not supposed to lubricate the indexing rod. The guy on the phone was perplexed when I described the indexing problem -- he'd never heard of this problem occurring.

I ordered a number of spare parts, including replacement indexing rods and ratchet gears. I'm now on the third hex ratchet so I suspect that the problem is with the indexing rod. I'll replace it, the ratchet gear, and the hex ratchet at the same time when the parts come in. I would expect that would make this problem disappear.

I asked for a press I could tinker with and I got my wish! :supergrin:

LOL...let me know when you finish tinkering & we can compare the box of parts. When I first got my Pro 1000, I spent time on the phone with their technicians. I'd make small improvements here & there. But I finally opted to raise the white flag & go the route that I previously posted.

Wash-ar15
01-05-2010, 16:17
when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.

WiskyT
01-05-2010, 16:20
when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.

That's correct and in the instructions. At least it used to be in the instructions when mine was made back in the 80's. He was advised to follow the directions and re-set the indexing. I figure he tried this already, maybe not?

jdavionic
01-05-2010, 16:24
when you get the half index,turn the adjustment screw till the shellplate tuns and pops into place.

You then turn the adjustment screw an additional 3/4 turn after it pops into place. See the Pro 1000 zero video here
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/HelpVideos/video.html

Wash-ar15
01-05-2010, 16:47
I never turn the screw once it pops in place. when you guys use the machine,use a smooth slow motion. If one is too fast it messes them up.

WiskyT
01-05-2010, 16:52
I never turn the screw once it pops in place. when you guys use the machine,use a smooth slow motion. If one is too fast it messes them up.

I go about 1/2 turn after it pops. If I don't, the shellplate lags behind. If I cycle the press too slowly, the primers don't fall into place. Smooth and slow yes, but not too slow. Flailing away at lightspeed trying to load 1000 rounds per hour will definately end in failure, but creeping along causes it's own problems in my expirience.

jdavionic
01-05-2010, 16:59
I go about 1/2 turn after it pops. If I don't, the shellplate lags behind. If I cycle the press too slowly, the primers don't fall into place. Smooth and slow yes, but not too slow. Flailing away at lightspeed trying to load 1000 rounds per hour will definately end in failure, but creeping along causes it's own problems in my expirience.

I agree with you on the rate. The Pro 1000 is not a press where you just crank the handle faster if you want a faster rate of production. When I used the primer feed, I'd encounter numerous issues - one case in the sizing die and a second that would creep too far and get crushed at the top of the stroke, or primers that would fail to be positioned for seating resulting in a loaded cartridge with no primer...PITA with powder spill.

It's best to focus on full & consistent strokes - both all the up & down.

Wash-ar15
01-05-2010, 17:06
one of the thing i have found most important with the pro 1k is that it be mounted on a STURDY bench.

I don't have much problem primers.Right whne I get to the up stroke and the primer is about to be seated,I pause for a split second. It seems to help with primer. I recall loading 500 rd of 45 once with no primers bad.

WiskyT
01-05-2010, 17:09
one of the thing i have found most important with the pro 1k is that it be mounted on a STURDY bench.

I don't have much problem primers.Right whne I get to the up stroke and the primer is about to be seated,I pause for a split second. It seems to help with primer. I recall loading 500 rd of 45 once with no primers bad.

Honestly, try giving your timing screw that additional 1/2-3/4 turn. It will get your shellplate turning sooner and this will trip the case sensor to release the primer sooner. It will then get there sooner before you reach the bottom of the ram's (top of handle's) stroke.

kcbrown
01-05-2010, 22:20
What the timing screw actually controls is how far the shellplate will rotate once it engages the spiral section of the indexing rod. It works because it controls the position of the teeth on the ratchet gear relative to those on the hex ratchet. The ratchet gear is held in place relative to the shellplate carrier by the timing screw.

The problem I'm having is unrelated to that setting, since the next shellplate rotation will be fine immediately after the errant one (after I reposition the shellplate, of course).

I have reset the indexing multiple times (I do so whenever I put the shellplate carrier back together, for one thing). Predictably, it has had no noticeable effect on the problem.


At this point it's unclear what the root cause of the problem is. I suspect the indexing rod may be machined slightly incorrectly such that the hex ratchet can't consistently get a good bite on the indexing rod. But it may also be that the ratchet gear has some subtle manufacturing defect that prevents it from being completely reliable in holding the hex ratchet in place during shellplate rotation.

I'm hopeful that I'll discover the root cause when my spare parts come in.

jdavionic
01-06-2010, 03:38
What the timing screw actually controls is how far the shellplate will rotate once it engages the spiral section of the indexing rod. It works because it controls the position of the teeth on the ratchet gear relative to those on the hex ratchet. The ratchet gear is held in place relative to the shellplate carrier by the timing screw.

The problem I'm having is unrelated to that setting, since the next shellplate rotation will be fine immediately after the errant one (after I reposition the shellplate, of course).

I have reset the indexing multiple times (I do so whenever I put the shellplate carrier back together, for one thing). Predictably, it has had no noticeable effect on the problem.


At this point it's unclear what the root cause of the problem is. I suspect the indexing rod may be machined slightly incorrectly such that the hex ratchet can't consistently get a good bite on the indexing rod. But it may also be that the ratchet gear has some subtle manufacturing defect that prevents it from being completely reliable in holding the hex ratchet in place during shellplate rotation.

I'm hopeful that I'll discover the root cause when my spare parts come in.

You may looked into this already. But one thing that I found affecting my indexing was that my carrier holder was warped. It's a cast aluminum part, IIRC. When I spoke with a technician at Lee, he said that 'you'll never get the indexing to work correctly if that part is warped.' You can buy a replacement for $20 from here -
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/parts.cgi?REFPAGE=http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1262773941.4162EQUALS/html/catalog/lp1000.html&1262773941.4162=90640

It's TR2429. I replaced mine and it helped resolve my major problem.

Just a thought.

Wash-ar15
01-06-2010, 09:51
it may be the nut that retains the shell plate. did you damage it when you removed it?? I did the first time,not realizing that its reverse thread.

kcbrown
01-06-2010, 10:27
it may be the nut that retains the shell plate. did you damage it when you removed it?? I did the first time,not realizing that its reverse thread.

Nope, the nut ("drive bolt" is how Lee refers to it, I think) is completely intact. I knew ahead of time that it was reverse threaded (in reality, it's not that it's reverse threaded, but instead the shellplate threads onto it. The threads themselves are still the standard right-hand threads). Even so, I checked it over for damage after I had the shellplate carrier apart, just in case.

I try to use minimal force when dealing with mechanical things. In this case, I knew the shellplate was secured finger-tight, so I turned the drive bolt by hand.

kcbrown
01-06-2010, 10:28
You may looked into this already. But one thing that I found affecting my indexing was that my carrier holder was warped. It's a cast aluminum part, IIRC. When I spoke with a technician at Lee, he said that 'you'll never get the indexing to work correctly if that part is warped.' You can buy a replacement for $20 from here -
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/parts.cgi?REFPAGE=http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1262773941.4162EQUALS/html/catalog/lp1000.html&1262773941.4162=90640

It's TR2429. I replaced mine and it helped resolve my major problem.

Just a thought.


That's an interesting possibility. If nothing else works, I'll go there next. Midway sells the entire shellplate carrier assembly, complete with shellplate, for $40, so if I have to replace the carrier I'll probably just replace everything and that way I'll have tons of spare parts. :supergrin:

Wash-ar15
01-06-2010, 14:05
if you have had it less than 2 years,send the part back to lee and they will send you a new one. did it with the primer arms for my LM and they sent me back double.

kcbrown
01-11-2010, 20:06
My spare parts from Lee should arrive tomorrow. In it will be lots more hex ratchets, some ratchet gears, some indexing rods, and other miscellaneous parts.

There's one thing I did that may help, but even with this mod I did hit the same indexing issue so I'm not convinced it solves it completely. The problem I fixed is that basically, there's no real tension on the indexing screw -- it's free to turn. I suspect that when the press is operating, it does turn, ever so slightly, and since this press seems to be very sensitive to that setting, it can come out of calibration and start causing trouble.

So I cut up a bit of an old mousepad and stuffed that into the small section of the shellplate carrier underneath the removable shellplate cover and adjacent to the indexing adjustment screw, so that the bit of foam rubs against the side of the screw. The screw can still turn via a screwdriver, but it should no longer turn on its own as a result of vibration from press operation. I'll take a picture of it the next time I get an opportunity.

Hopefully one or more of the spare parts I get will solve my intermittent indexing issue once and for all.

kcbrown
01-12-2010, 20:45
The spare parts arrived today.

I ordered quite a few things. A couple of indexing rods, a few ratchet gears, a lot of hex ratchets, a couple of shellplate drive bolts, and a few other odds and ends.

I replaced the drive bolt, the ratchet gear, the indexing rod, and the hex ratchet all in one pass. I figured if I was going to replace parts, I may as well replace all of them. I carefully examined the old parts and compared them with the new ones. Only one thing stands out as being different: the drive bolt.

Here's what the old one looks like, from the top:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4270800732_301883b3a2_o.jpg



Notice anything unusual?

The defect is very subtle: the hex hole is slightly off center.

I believe this is what was causing my intermittent indexing issue. Because the hole was off center, this forced the indexing rod to be canted slightly relative to the ratchet gear (or for the center of the hex ratchet to be offset slightly relative to the ratchet gear). When the ratchet gear mates with the hex ratchet, this condition causes an asymmetric load between the hex ratchet and the ratchet gear, and I suspect it was sometimes enough to cause the "teeth" to unmesh just enough to allow the hex ratchet to turn 60 degrees relative to the ratchet gear. That caused the indexing to stop mid-stride. End result: the shellplate turns only half the amount it should, intermittently.

After replacing the indexing components and adjusting the indexing again (I kept the modification that keeps the indexing adjustment screw in place since I figured it was a good idea), I ran a couple of hundred cases through the press. Not a single failure to index.

I'll assemble another 400 rounds of ammunition with it in the next day or two, but this time I'm not expecting any problems. And if that's the case, then it means my Pro 1000 is now a reliable press.


And that means there's no more tinkering left to do with it. :crying:


I guess I'll just have to get a Lee Loadmaster next. :faint::supergrin:



ETA: I take that back. There is one thing left to do on the tinkering side of things: I want to figure out how to get it to drop the spent primers through a tube instead of into the area underneath the press. I don't want to have to drill a hole into my bench underneath the press for that. Guess the Loadmaster will just have to wait... :upeyes:

Wash-ar15
01-13-2010, 09:45
HA!! I told ya its the drive bolt. that thing is made of soft metal and any deformation will cause problems. Got a extra one laying around just in case.

Colorado4Wheel
01-13-2010, 12:51
I'll assemble another 400 rounds of ammunition with it in the next day or two, but this time I'm not expecting any problems. And if that's the case, then it means my Pro 1000 is now a reliable press.


And that means there's no more tinkering left to do with it. :crying:


I guess I'll just have to get a Lee Loadmaster next. :faint::supergrin:



I found a club that looks perfect for you.

http://www.optimist.org/e/Visitor/creed.cfm/

kcbrown
01-13-2010, 13:50
I found a club that looks perfect for you.

http://www.optimist.org/e/Visitor/creed.cfm/

Well, I already know I'm an optimist, because things usually turn out even worse than I predict!

kcbrown
01-13-2010, 16:13
Well, I ran another batch of 300 rounds last night.

And encountered the failure to completely index again. I thought that perhaps it was the result of some sort of interruption in the stroke but I had it happen when I was producing continuous motion during the downstroke of the ram, so I can safely rule out operator error.

So while the drive bolt may have been contributing to the problem, it's not the sole cause.

I found that when the problem occurs, if I turn the indexing screw perhaps an eighth of a turn clockwise, the problem clears up again for a while. That suggests to me a couple of things:



The alignment of the internal indexing parts is critical. If the ratchet gear moves it'll take the indexing out of calibration and will result in exactly the problem I'm seeing.
Whatever I can do to minimize the possible movement of the ratchet gear is probably worth doing.


When I assembled the shellplate carrier prior to running the press, I used a different material to keep the indexing adjustment screw from moving, and found later that it had "formed" to the screw and no longer was placing much pressure on it. I've replaced it with a material that should prove better for that. I also didn't pay much attention to the placement of the shellplate cover, but the cover is used to anchor the indexing adjustment screw. It's possible that when I assembled the shellplate carrier, there was a bit of free play there that I had neglected to take out.

And finally, I found that it is indeed possible to use too little force when putting the shellplate and drive bolt back together. Rather than use a bunch of force to ensure that the two stay put relative to each other, I'm now using Loctite to keep them together.


Oddly enough, the priming system of my Pro 1000 is the one system that hasn't given me any trouble at all. There have been a few rounds made where the primer had a small indentation in it as a result of a grain of powder getting onto the priming pin but that's been the extent of my trouble with the priming system itself, and that's something that can happen on the Dillon as well.

The priming system isn't very forgiving if you can't prime the case for some reason (for instance, I've had a few cases where the old primer was corroded and the decapping pin managed to remove the base of the old primer but not the sides, so the resulting case was unusable), and you have to fiddle with it if you insist on using the same primer for the next case -- it's much easier to simply pluck the primer off the priming pin and use it later.


I'll run another bunch of cases through the press to see if it's reliable, but I now have enough 9mm ammo to last a few trips to the range, so my tests will have to be with empty cases. I guess perhaps it's time to spend less time playing with the press and more time going to the range!

Anyway, I guess I'll be putting off that purchase of the Loadmaster for the moment... :supergrin:

dudel
01-13-2010, 16:49
Well, I already know I'm an optimist, because things usually turn out even worse than I predict!

That's not an optimist. An optimist would be Jack getting hitched again. :rofl:

JerryO
01-13-2010, 22:30
Anyway, I guess I'll be putting off that purchase of the Loadmaster for the moment... :supergrin:


While I've never had an indexing problem with the pro1000, short stroking will cause it to 1/2 index.

The loadmaster is fun and very different. I think it needs unusal setup. I put the sizer die in station 2 (and a decaping die in station 1) which gives very precise control on the case as the primer is seated. Which happens as the ram goes up and runs all the cases into their dies. Of course the priming has no feel with this system. The primer feed has some plastic parts that move the primers on top of the primer pin. If you let the primers run out, the last primer or two stick the plastic carrier above the primer seating pin and destroy the plastic primer carrier.

And indexing is TOTALY different than the pro1000. Indexing happens when the handle pushes the square indexing rod under the shellplate, Catching and turning the shellplate by a pin on it's bottom.

NOTE that the 2ond station has the priming function so the powder drop must be done in station 3. This leaves only 2 stations for the powder check, bullet seating, and crimping. If you can adjust the bullet seating die to crimp, you could put it in station 5. I did this and found it worked very good by pumping the handle with my left hand and seating bullets with my right hand. I drop a new case with my right hand as the ram reaches its top.

I think seating bullets in station 5 only works for me because I don't use the case feeder. (I don't like filling tubes, and think it is just as fast to drop the cases by hand). Also, leaving the case feeder off makes changing calibers much easier.

I found that everything on the loadmaster cost about 50% more than the pro1000.


JerryO

GioaJack
01-14-2010, 08:54
That's not an optimist. An optimist would be Jack getting hitched again. :rofl:



That wouldn't be an optimist either... that would be insanity. :whistling:

Jack

kcbrown
01-20-2010, 11:51
I haven't assembled any more ammo with the press yet, but as of now I haven't had a single failure to properly index in some 300 to 400 actuations of the press (most of which involved running cases through it with the turret mounted and the powder measure emptied).

I expect to assemble a couple of hundred rounds within the next few days.

One thing of note: the spring tension underneath the steel ball that's used to align the shellplate is too high for loading 9mm. It causes the shellplate to snap into position with too much gusto, and the result is that a small amount of powder will jump out of the case and land on the shellplate. Since this press is relatively sensitive to such contamination if it gets into the priming system, this isn't a trivial matter.

Oddly enough, the Dillon 650 has the same issue but that is easy enough to deal with by setting the tension of the shellplate bolt appropriately so that the friction between the shellplate and the carrier is enough to keep the shellplate from snapping into position like that. That's not an option on the Pro 1000, and the only way to do the equivalent would be to put a nylon washer or something of the appropriate thickness between the shellplate and the shellplate carrier. The Pro 1000, therefore, needed a different solution.

To deal with this issue on the Pro 1000, I took the shellplate off, removed the ball and spring, and cut a turn off the spring. I then bent the new end of the spring back to horizontal and pulled on the spring to extend it so that its size matched that of the original. I then assembled everything back together.

The end result seems to be that the shellplate doesn't snap into position with such force, and my preliminary tests show that the powder is now staying put much better than it did before. It's not completely perfect but it's a vast improvement.

A weaker spring underneath the steel ball would probably be a good change for Lee to make.

Colorado4Wheel
01-20-2010, 11:56
It's not completely perfect but it's a vast improvement.


That made me laugh again. I remember using those ideas when I had a LEE.

"Well, it's not perfect, but its a lot better."

kcbrown
01-20-2010, 12:44
That made me laugh again. I remember using those ideas when I had a LEE.

"Well, it's not perfect, but its a lot better."

Even my Dillon isn't perfect, and I've made some improvements to it: I'm using the Arredondo powder drop slide with micrometer that I got from UniqueTek because I wanted an easy and consistent way to set the powder measure and I use relatively fine-grained powders (Silhouette).

I'm also using UniqueTek's toolhead clamp setup because I was getting OAL variations greater than I liked.

The 650's shellplate snaps into position like the Lee's and it takes just the right amount of tension on the bolt that holds it into place to hit the sweet spot between too tight and too loose. If you were to follow the instructions, you'd wind up with it being too loose.

Even then, some powder does wind up on the shellplate, probably from the powder drop. And that's with .40 S&W, where the cases are big enough that the powder isn't jumping out of them at all. I suspect that's a universal problem, however, so it doesn't really bother me.


The difference between the Dillon and the Lee is that once you have everything tightened down properly, the Dillon is as close to absolutely reliable as you're likely to find. The Lee requires more work than that to get decent reliability, and I don't expect it'll ever quite hit the reliability of the Dillon.

But I think I can get it pretty close.

Colorado4Wheel
01-20-2010, 13:07
Even my Dillon isn't perfect, and I've made some improvements to it: I'm using the Arredondo powder drop slide with micrometer that I got from UniqueTek because I wanted an easy and consistent way to set the powder measure and I use relatively fine-grained powders (Silhouette).

I'm also using UniqueTek's toolhead clamp setup because I was getting OAL variations greater than I liked.

The 650's shellplate snaps into position like the Lee's and it takes just the right amount of tension on the bolt that holds it into place to hit the sweet spot between too tight and too loose. If you were to follow the instructions, you'd wind up with it being too loose.

Even then, some powder does wind up on the shellplate, probably from the powder drop. And that's with .40 S&W, where the cases are big enough that the powder isn't jumping out of them at all. I suspect that's a universal problem, however, so it doesn't really bother me.


The difference between the Dillon and the Lee is that once you have everything tightened down properly, the Dillon is as close to absolutely reliable as you're likely to find. The Lee requires more work than that to get decent reliability, and I don't expect it'll ever quite hit the reliability of the Dillon.

But I think I can get it pretty close.


Nothing is perfect. This thread does bring back memories. It's amazing your priming system works right. Thats good news. The LM does not use a spring like the Pro1000 does if my memory serves me correctly. It has a bar that slides into a hole to index the press. Mine wore out and that was my issue with priming I am pretty sure. The Lees are very sensitive to priming issues if the indexing is not perfect. You should fiddle with a LM next. That would be fun for you. Besides the priming issues I had it was perfect. If the priming system was better it would be amazing. It would never require a "push to prime" motion so it would be like a Dillon 1050. You could even rig up a 650 style case feeder to it pretty easy and it would crank out ammo very fast.

kcbrown
01-20-2010, 14:06
Nothing is perfect. This thread does bring back memories. It's amazing your priming system works right. Thats good news.


I strongly suspect the reason the priming system is working properly is that I've got the press mounted SOLIDLY and I've never violated the rule about keeping the primer trough full (except when I'm using something to provide the same force that the primers in the trough normally provide). I've experimented with it enough to know exactly how it works and under what conditions it won't work. If too much side pressure is exerted on the primer, it will fail to fall into place on top of the priming ram. If too little side pressure is exerted it won't move completely into place above the priming ram. They really did design it to work with the amount of force that gets exerted on the bottommost primer from the stack of primers above it in the primer chute.



The LM does not use a spring like the Pro1000 does if my memory serves me correctly. It has a bar that slides into a hole to index the press. Mine wore out and that was my issue with priming I am pretty sure. The Lees are very sensitive to priming issues if the indexing is not perfect.


I've wondered why they didn't bother with a ball locator like they did with the Pro 1000. For locating the shellplate properly, such a thing is about as close to ideal as it gets. So much so that if I get a Loadmaster, I'll very likely be taking a hard look at what it would take to add that. The only disadvantage such a thing has is to "snap" the shellplate into position, but I expect that could be handled with the proper combination of a sufficiently small steel ball and a sufficiently lightweight spring.

The other thing I think could be improved on the Loadmaster is the casefeeder. They really need to implement the casefeeder system in use on the Pro 1k, which is dirt simple and reliable, but depends on the indexing operation being complete before the ram is lowered all the way. So getting that working on the Loadmaster would require that the indexing operation be somehow modified so that it is finished prior to the ram being lowered all the way, just enough that for that last bit of movement, the case would be inserted into the shellplate.

A number of people have gotten the casefeeder to work reliably despite its shortcomings, however...



You should fiddle with a LM next. That would be fun for you.


I fully expect to do precisely that, actually! :supergrin:



Besides the priming issues I had it was perfect. If the priming system was better it would be amazing. It would never require a "push to prime" motion so it would be like a Dillon 1050. You could even rig up a 650 style case feeder to it pretty easy and it would crank out ammo very fast.

I've never understood what people have against the "push to prime" system. It's the only one I can think of that allows you to feel what's going on and, if necessary, stop before the primer gets crushed. Crushing the primer increases the risk that it will go off.

I can see how you might get a slight amount of additional speed out of the press if it's got a priming system like the Loadmaster's or the 1050's, though...


Once I've got a Loadmaster in hand I'll take a hard look at the priming mechanism to see what I can do to make it more reliable.

Just out of curiosity, did you use a sizing die with the decapping pin removed in station 2 of your Loadmaster? That has reportedly made all the difference in the world with respect to the reliability of the priming operation.

Colorado4Wheel
01-20-2010, 14:27
I can see how you might get a slight amount of additional speed out of the press if it's got a priming system like the Loadmaster's or the 1050's, though...


Once I've got a Loadmaster in hand I'll take a hard look at the priming mechanism to see what I can do to make it more reliable.

Just out of curiosity, did you use a sizing die with the decapping pin removed in station 2 of your Loadmaster? That has reportedly made all the difference in the world with respect to the reliability of the priming operation.

Yes, I used a sizing die in the station over the priming station. I deprimed only in station #1. I did all the tricks. Never mattered. Knowing what I know now it could have been a issue with my table moving. It was a pretty strong table. Attached to the wall and everything. But it's not as good as my current setup. Also it got worse over time. I noticed after a lot of agrivation that the indexing pawl was worn to a sharp edge. It had to of lost some length in the process. In the end for the amount of time I invested for the amount of rounds I made I determined it was not worth pursuing the press any farther. Never knowing if it was going to work and not having a back up press in case I needed to make some rounds for a upcoming match was to much pressure for me.

I find the push to prime slower but much more sensitive. Thats the tradeoff.

kcbrown
01-20-2010, 19:05
Yes, I used a sizing die in the station over the priming station. I deprimed only in station #1. I did all the tricks. Never mattered. Knowing what I know now it could have been a issue with my table moving. It was a pretty strong table. Attached to the wall and everything. But it's not as good as my current setup. Also it got worse over time. I noticed after a lot of agrivation that the indexing pawl was worn to a sharp edge. It had to of lost some length in the process. In the end for the amount of time I invested for the amount of rounds I made I determined it was not worth pursuing the press any farther. Never knowing if it was going to work and not having a back up press in case I needed to make some rounds for a upcoming match was to much pressure for me.


I suspect that in my case, having the Dillon makes all the difference in the world. It also helps that I don't shoot in competition (that may change, however).

How many rounds had you made by the time you noticed the kind of wear you saw in the indexing pawl? Sounds like it may have been a defective part or something, unless you had made many tens of thousands of rounds or something (which I rather doubt).



I find the push to prime slower but much more sensitive. Thats the tradeoff.How much slower are you with the push to prime system? If the difference is minimal then I'm curious why you'd prefer the 1050/Loadmaster priming method. If it's not minimal then why is there such a large difference?

Colorado4Wheel
01-21-2010, 08:03
I suspect that in my case, having the Dillon makes all the difference in the world. It also helps that I don't shoot in competition (that may change, however).

How many rounds had you made by the time you noticed the kind of wear you saw in the indexing pawl? Sounds like it may have been a defective part or something, unless you had made many tens of thousands of rounds or something (which I rather doubt).


How much slower are you with the push to prime system? If the difference is minimal then I'm curious why you'd prefer the 1050/Loadmaster priming method. If it's not minimal then why is there such a large difference?

It's been too long to rember accurately, but it was 3 lbs of powder or so before I finally gave up.

As far as speed is concerned. I have never used a non-push to prime that worked well enough to really compare. LM jamed in some fashion every 100-200 rds. I am faster with my 550 then my loadmaster by far.

kcbrown
01-21-2010, 11:23
It's been too long to rember accurately, but it was 3 lbs of powder or so before I finally gave up.

As far as speed is concerned. I have never used a non-push to prime that worked well enough to really compare. LM jamed in some fashion every 100-200 rds. I am faster with my 550 then my loadmaster by far.

You're clearly craving a 1050. :supergrin:

Did you ever post anything on the loadmastervideos.com forums about the problems you were having? I'd be curious what they had to say about them if you did...

AR-15 Outlaw
01-21-2010, 16:22
any chance that once you get it completely running as reliably as it possibly can you could post a step by step thread of how to set it up and mod it from the shipping box it came in to the box of shells that it created. start to finish? using the info from this thread and anything you come up with in the time between now and then. that way its straight forward without all the experimenting and trial and error that has gone on in this thread. it would be like a cleaned up continuation of this thread.

i know its alot for a new member like me to ask of you but i would greatly appreciate it and i believe many many others would also. it would make a great sticky at the top of the forum. from they way you handled this with the attention to every detail i'd say your the perfect person for the job

i was actually moments away from ordering the lee pro 1000 when i decided against it due to the negative reviews and problems posted all over the net. i instead ended up ordering the breech lock challanger but i'd buy the lee pro in a heartbeat and use the challanger as a backup if you decide to do the step by step.

kcbrown
01-21-2010, 18:16
I just finished loading 200 rounds. Not a single problem with indexing. Combined with the 400 or so cases I've put through the press since I last put it together, I'd say it's likely I've got the indexing problem licked.

This time I managed to average about 300 rounds an hour, and that was while using my usual leisurely strokes. I was using nickel-plated brass this time, which made the strokes a bit harder than usual. A few cases failed to deprime and caused me to have to stop and examine the priming mechanism to see what had happened, but in each of those cases the primer was unharmed and I was able to use it.

The cases spilled a lot less powder as a result of the shellplate snapping into position than they had previously -- it was almost negligible.


The positioning of the shellplate after the end of the stroke was the same after the run as it was at the beginning of the run (priming pin centered in the shellplate cutout), so the indexing is now completely consistent over time. Aside from dimensional changes resulting from temperature changes, I have no reason to believe that the press will require readjustment to the indexing.

I guess I'll have to get a Loadmaster soon. :rofl:

ChaneyD
01-21-2010, 20:26
You get what you pay for.

kcbrown
01-22-2010, 07:29
any chance that once you get it completely running as reliably as it possibly can you could post a step by step thread of how to set it up and mod it from the shipping box it came in to the box of shells that it created. start to finish? using the info from this thread and anything you come up with in the time between now and then. that way its straight forward without all the experimenting and trial and error that has gone on in this thread. it would be like a cleaned up continuation of this thread.

i know its alot for a new member like me to ask of you but i would greatly appreciate it and i believe many many others would also. it would make a great sticky at the top of the forum. from they way you handled this with the attention to every detail i'd say your the perfect person for the job


This is a good idea, and I'll start giving thought to exactly how to go about doing it.

There are a lot of things to consider, and part of the problem is that the issues I ran into aren't necessarily the issues someone else would run into, and it's difficult for me to anticipate what problems some else might run into. Nevertheless, I think the modifications I made are useful and increase the reliability of the press, and there are some general principles which, if followed, I think would help anyone trying to set up one of these.

I may have to take some additional pictures to illustrate my points as well.



i was actually moments away from ordering the lee pro 1000 when i decided against it due to the negative reviews and problems posted all over the net. i instead ended up ordering the breech lock challanger but i'd buy the lee pro in a heartbeat and use the challanger as a backup if you decide to do the step by step.Oddly enough, the reviews I've seen of the Pro 1000 have largely been positive. The ones on Midway are generally good, for instance (noticeably better than those for the Loadmaster, it seems, though the Loadmaster does have its share of good reviews, probably by people who were very careful when setting it up and didn't have any defective parts to contend with).

AR-15 Outlaw
01-22-2010, 07:38
part of the determinting factor in the choice was i just started reloading a couple months ago and just got everything down using a single press and i saw tons of people that had been reloading alot longer than me saying how it was a major pain to setup, and a full time job keeping it working.

but at the rate i shoot and rate i reload i definatly need a progressive for atleast 10mm and .223. im just getting ready to start loading for the 10mm but i was spending a couple hours a day 3 days a week to be able to go to the range twice a week to shoot groups with my AR. i'd also like to be able to load faster that way i can not only load what i need for the range but a little extra each time to store for SHTF scenarios.

kcbrown
01-22-2010, 08:25
You get what you pay for.

Well, you always pay for what you get, but you don't always get what you pay for!

In this case, you're paying a bit more in terms of personal labor in exchange for a lower price. For some people, that's a worthwhile trade, while for others it isn't.

If out-of-the-box reliability is what you're after, then you want a Dillon. Even the Hornady LNL seems to have its out-of-the-box problems (look at DoctaGlocka's experience, for instance). And even with a Dillon, you'll need to go over the press and tighten everything up because some things come a little loose from shipping and can cause problems later on (ask me how I know).

But you pay for that out-of-the-box reliability.


The Pro 1k is my second progressive press. I got it so I wouldn't have to do a caliber conversion on my Dillon 650 all the time. I strongly considered the Dillon Square Deal B, but became intrigued with the Pro 1000 after reading about it a bit.

The thing about the Pro 1000 is that, when you get right down to it, it is a very simple press and yet, at the same time, about as full featured as any progressive press except for the number of stations. The casefeeder is an excellent example of that simplicity: a case pusher which moves along a slide as a result of being connected to the press via a pivoting link, a set of 4 tubes that can manually be rotated into position to drop cases in front of the case pusher, and a case collator which is just a bowl with 4 holes that sits on top of the tubes.

Simplicity and reliability usually go hand in hand as long as one is careful to respect the limitations involved. Making any piece of equipment run with maximum reliably requires some understanding of how it works, so that one will know where the limits are.

The simplicity of the Pro 1000 is the reason I fully expected to be able to get the press operating reliably. It's been an interesting journey to get to that point, but I believe I have been vindicated. Of course, only time will tell.


I expect the Loadmaster would be more of a handful, because it is not as simple as the Pro 1000.

kcbrown
01-22-2010, 09:31
part of the determinting factor in the choice was i just started reloading a couple months ago and just got everything down using a single press and i saw tons of people that had been reloading alot longer than me saying how it was a major pain to setup, and a full time job keeping it working.

but at the rate i shoot and rate i reload i definatly need a progressive for atleast 10mm and .223. im just getting ready to start loading for the 10mm but i was spending a couple hours a day 3 days a week to be able to go to the range twice a week to shoot groups with my AR. i'd also like to be able to load faster that way i can not only load what i need for the range but a little extra each time to store for SHTF scenarios.


The real question is: just what is your financial situation for this? Would a Dillon stretch your budget?

For me, the Pro 1000 is cheap enough that I could afford to lose the investment in it if it didn't work out. If that's the case for you, then dive right in (but see below). If not, then I think we need to talk about what your options really are, and for that we'll need to know how much you can really spend.

The Pro 1000 is about $160 from Midway, complete with dies. You really want the case collator, so add another $12 to that. Figure another $30 for a reasonable set of spare parts (the press comes with some but it's relatively minimal). I ordered about $70 worth of spares from Lee but I got enough to last a lifetime or two, and it includes some things that basically shouldn't wear out but which could be lost or something (e.g., the spring and ball used to locate the shellplate, the indexing column, a couple of shellplate drive bolts, etc.).

Some of the spare parts are available from Midway but some, such as a replacement ratchet gear, are only available from Lee, so you'll probably want to get what spares you can from Midway and order the rest from Lee since you're already paying shipping from Midway anyway.

Substitute whatever place you would buy the Pro 1k from for "Midway" in the above.


The thing is, you're going to be loading for rifle. For that, you're going to want a press with more than just 3 stations. For one thing, it's absolutely something I would not do on a progressive without a powder cop die of some kind, and that alone will eat a station.

The Loadmaster is a 4 station press in practice, not a 5 station one as advertised. And since you're looking for good, step by step instructions for setup that will result in a reliable press, the Loadmaster may prove riskier than you'd like (I highly recommend you go check out loadmastervideos.com, both for the setup instructions and for the forums). But if the Loadmaster is all you can afford then that may be what you'll have to go with.

So again, what's your budget like for this? If you're willing to limit yourself to pistol on a progressive then the Pro 1000 will work for you, but the fact that you shoot a decent amount of rifle would have me looking for something more flexible, like a Hornady LNL or a Dillon 550 (or, better, a 650, but that may be well outside of your price range).

ETA: If you're seriously budget constrained, don't overlook the Lee Classic Turret press for this. You'll be able to get some 200 rounds an hour out of it, and it will reportedly do rifle all day long. It can hold 4 dies, so with the right setup you'd be able to use a powder cop die. About the only thing you wouldn't necessarily be able to do on the press is trim cases.

Wash-ar15
01-22-2010, 09:50
the thing I have found that helps a lot on the LM is to make sure the arms that position the cases on the shell plate are tight aand pushing the cases all the way into the slots on the shell plate. when you get cocked primers on a LM,look at the arm.

My 1k and LM run very well.

kcbrown
01-22-2010, 12:09
the thing I have found that helps a lot on the LM is to make sure the arms that position the cases on the shell plate are tight aand pushing the cases all the way into the slots on the shell plate. when you get cocked primers on a LM,look at the arm.

My 1k and LM run very well.

How many rounds would you say you've gotten from your Loadmaster so far? More importantly, on average, how many rounds do you manage to produce without some sort of stoppage due to a press malfunction?

Wash-ar15
01-22-2010, 12:35
How many rounds would you say you've gotten from your Loadmaster so far? More importantly, on average, how many rounds do you manage to produce without some sort of stoppage due to a press malfunction?

looking at the amount of 40sw bullets i have bought,I ahve loaded 7k 40 through my Lm and 8k 9mm.

Very often can get 500 without any problems as long as I keep the primers full and the arms tight.

My Lm was ordered as a 40sw and to convert it to 9mm You are supposed to use the small lider for the caes feed. too cheap to get it so on the 9mm I get a little more problems with the case feeder.

Like many have said,"BOLT THAT THING DOWN" or you will ahve problems

Colorado4Wheel
01-23-2010, 08:20
You're clearly craving a 1050. :supergrin:

Did you ever post anything on the loadmastervideos.com forums about the problems you were having? I'd be curious what they had to say about them if you did...

The site didn't exist. I did talk to Darrin and Uncle Don via this forum.

Colorado4Wheel
01-23-2010, 08:21
To me the real question is LM/Pro 1000/LCT. Speed vs Simplicity. Oh the agony.

kcbrown
01-23-2010, 09:47
The site didn't exist. I did talk to Darrin and Uncle Don via this forum.

I think quite a lot has been learned since then about how to properly set up a Loadmaster and keep it running. It would be most interesting if you decided to revisit the Loadmaster to see if any of that makes a difference.

Colorado4Wheel
01-23-2010, 09:53
I sold the press. I tried all the "tricks of the time" Not sure what else new has come around. But I sized in station #2, never let the trough go really low, checked indexing, shellplate alignment, dirt, debured the slider and the chute. Not sure what else, it's been a while. I never broke a chain, never had a issue with the casefeeder. Besides priming, for me the press was perfectly fine if not a little beyond my expectations. I do read a lot of complaints from people and it's obvious they are being ham handed or just not careful. But I did try everything. Even when new and working at it's best it's not nearlly as reliable as my 550. As it got older, it got even worse. Every issue resulted in the priming slider getting nicked. So every time something flipped you had to wonder "did I just damage that slider? Do I need to pull it out and check it yet again?" That gets old really fast.

WiskyT
01-23-2010, 11:05
One of these days I'm going to treat myself to a new 1000 so I can load multiple calibers without changing things. I know caliber changes are easy, but I'm almost as lazy as Jack. I'll shoot whatever caliber the press is set on so I don't have to change things over.

I have the money to buy a new one, but I'm cheaper than I am lazy.

G19lover
01-30-2010, 06:52
One thing of note: the spring tension underneath the steel ball that's used to align the shellplate is too high for loading 9mm. It causes the shellplate to snap into position with too much gusto, and the result is that a small amount of powder will jump out of the case and land on the shellplate. Since this press is relatively sensitive to such contamination if it gets into the priming system, this isn't a trivial matter.

Oddly enough, the Dillon 650 has the same issue but that is easy enough
Yeah this is a common problem, I have made it part of my routine to reach in with a bullet ready but place my finger over the top of the casing till it pops in place, I then visually verify the powder level and place the bullet and start over. A big thing it prevents by doing this is the powder that pops out will eventually fall and stick into the groove of the shellplate, when this happens the casing will not seat all the way back and you will begin having problems with the casing lining up under the dies. Periodically clean the grooves as a maintenance.

ChaneyD
01-30-2010, 07:07
I took 25 cases out of a group of 100 I was going to reload (40SW). I put them in a box and hit them with two quick bursts of furniture polish, maybe one second total spraying. I threw the other 75 in the box and shook them around and ran them throught the 1000. The furniture polish really reduced the effort to pull the handle. I think it saves the pivot points in the linkage a lot of stress too. I'm going to continue to load like this from now on and can't figure out how I got away from it.

Why would you lube pistol cartridges to begin with?

ChaneyD
01-30-2010, 07:28
First, I'm not knocking anyone's press. Just listening to all the input about the 1000 Pro and other machines makes me really grateful that I have a Dillon 550. Also have a 1050. My Dillon 550 was my first press and was advised not to buy a 'progressive' as my first press. My dealer said 'baloney'. I watched a lot of forums for months listening to all the problems with various loaders before deciding on the Dillon. From the first day I set it up NEVER had a problem with it not working flawlessly. Only problems were of my own creation. Inexperience with things caused my problems. Never a powder drop problem, primer problem, etc. Of course you pay more for this machine over other machines so that it does work without spending most of your time getting the kinks out of it or 'fixing' it so it does work. I feel that a reloader should never have to be tinkered with to make it function properly considering what we're making here. My 1050 requires a bit more attention to detail since it has 8 stations to watch. All in all, presses are what they are and paying more for something that works out of the box without fussing is my choice. Hope no one takes offense in my remarks.

kcbrown
01-30-2010, 08:40
First, I'm not knocking anyone's press. Just listening to all the input about the 1000 Pro and other machines makes me really grateful that I have a Dillon 550. Also have a 1050. My Dillon 550 was my first press and was advised not to buy a 'progressive' as my first press. My dealer said 'baloney'. I watched a lot of forums for months listening to all the problems with various loaders before deciding on the Dillon. From the first day I set it up NEVER had a problem with it not working flawlessly. Only problems were of my own creation. Inexperience with things caused my problems. Never a powder drop problem, primer problem, etc. Of course you pay more for this machine over other machines so that it does work without spending most of your time getting the kinks out of it or 'fixing' it so it does work. I feel that a reloader should never have to be tinkered with to make it function properly considering what we're making here. My 1050 requires a bit more attention to detail since it has 8 stations to watch. All in all, presses are what they are and paying more for something that works out of the box without fussing is my choice. Hope no one takes offense in my remarks.

No offense taken at all. Each person has to make their own choices as to where on the price versus "works out of the box" curve they want to be. The 550 is a very simple design and as such should be quite reliable. Dillon goes the extra mile to set up the press and adjust everything before shipment. That's part of what you're paying for. Lee doesn't do quite as good a job of that and their presses probably come out of calibration during shipping anyway.

But note that even if you buy a 1050, you're not guaranteed to have it work reliably out of the box. For instance, freakshow10mm, a very experienced reloader who does it for a living, bought a 1050 and simply couldn't get it to work reliably (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157503&highlight=1050).

My 650 hasn't been without its small share of problems, but I worked through them and now it seems to be a very reliable press.

The Pro 1000 is also a very simple design, so poor construction or defective parts are the only reasons for it to not work reliably. The construction itself seems to be decent, so that leaves defective parts. But note that if you take it apart, it's on you to put it back together properly, and doing that requires understanding exactly how and why everything has to fit together.

I believe my reliability problems resulted from one defective part (the shellplate drive bolt) and my initial lack of understanding of exactly how and why it should go back together. Now that I understand all that and have it back together properly with good parts, it seems to be reliable.

But I didn't buy it just to sit on my bench and crank out ammo. I wanted something to tinker with, something I could improve. This press has proven to be good for that. I've already made one small improvement (the hard foam insert that keeps the index adjustment screw from rotating on its own) and I intend to make another: a thin but large nylon or teflon washer between the shellplate and the carrier to take up the slack between the two. I have the requisite parts for that on the way -- nobody sells a washer with the right specifications so I'm going to have to craft one myself.


Anyway, the whole point of all this is to have fun, and that's exactly what I'm doing! :supergrin:

I'm awfully tempted to buy a Loadmaster to see if I can get it working reliably, and to see what improvements I might be able to make to it....

kcbrown
01-30-2010, 08:46
Yeah this is a common problem, I have made it part of my routine to reach in with a bullet ready but place my finger over the top of the casing till it pops in place, I then visually verify the powder level and place the bullet and start over. A big thing it prevents by doing this is the powder that pops out will eventually fall and stick into the groove of the shellplate, when this happens the casing will not seat all the way back and you will begin having problems with the casing lining up under the dies. Periodically clean the grooves as a maintenance.

Just replace the spring with a weaker spring. It still indexes just fine, adjusts just fine, and eliminates the problem of the powder jumping out of the case.

Cleaning the grooves periodically is a good idea regardless. Thanks for the tip! Keep 'em coming!

WiskyT
01-30-2010, 10:52
Why would you lube pistol cartridges to begin with?

Because for the total effort and time of about 10 seconds it makes the force on the handle feel like less than half of what it normally is. Grab a handfull of empty brass, shoot it for about 1 second with Pledge while it is in a carboard box, through remaining empty brass to be realoded in the same box and agitate to mix the cases togeather and then load.

dudel
01-30-2010, 12:40
Because for the total effort and time of about 10 seconds it makes the force on the handle feel like less than half of what it normally is. Grab a handfull of empty brass, shoot it for about 1 second with Pledge while it is in a carboard box, through remaining empty brass to be realoded in the same box and agitate to mix the cases togeather and then load.

How do you get the lube off? Doesn't that add to the time?

Shooting lubed cases puts additional strain on the block since the expanded, lubed case can't grip the chamber and slams backwards against the block.

kcbrown
01-30-2010, 16:07
Shooting lubed cases puts additional strain on the block since the expanded, lubed case can't grip the chamber and slams backwards against the block.

Are you sure that's true?

The side of the case is gripping the wall of the chamber at 15,000 to 35,000 PSI (depending on your load and caliber), while the rearwards pressure is almost certainly a small (and likely very small) fraction of that: in essence, it's the amount of pressure needed to push the bullet out of the case and to swage it into the rifling. Lube reduces the effort to size the case by about half, so figure it reduces the effective gripping pressure by half as well (so 7,500 to 17,500 PSI).

I would think that lube, or lack thereof, would make little difference in the face of the above.

Colorado4Wheel
01-30-2010, 16:44
For instance, freakshow10mm, a very experienced reloader who does it for a living, bought a 1050 and simply couldn't get it to work reliably (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157503&highlight=1050)..


Some people can screw everything up or just seem to get things that are screwed up. He seemed to draw that drama to him as well. He was always having problems with something. Kid took a hammer to his Ruger one time. It just seemed to be his lot in life.

WiskyT
01-30-2010, 17:05
How do you get the lube off? Doesn't that add to the time?

Shooting lubed cases puts additional strain on the block since the expanded, lubed case can't grip the chamber and slams backwards against the block.

I don't remove the lube. It's a very small amount of very light lube. It's furniture wax. You bring up a good point about straining the breach of the gun, but it is not like the rounds are covered in gear oil. You pretty much can't tell they have been lubed by the time you get them to the range.

I can't tell you that lubing the rounds doesn't add strain to the breach. I can only tell you that I think it is a minimal issue in a relatively light round like handguns rounds.

kcbrown
01-30-2010, 17:41
Some people can screw everything up or just seem to get things that are screwed up. He seemed to draw that drama to him as well. He was always having problems with something. Kid took a hammer to his Ruger one time. It just seemed to be his lot in life.

Heh. Well, I can't argue against that, except to note that what's being discussed here is the out-of-the-box reliability of the press. The person I was replying to was talking about how he's happy to have a Dillon 550 because it Just Works out of the box.

Freak's experience with the 1050 illustrates that even the best manufacturers can ship a product that fails to work out of the box (the fact that he's a commercial loader means that we can be pretty confident he knows how to run a press reliably). Buying a Dillon doesn't guarantee that you'll get something that works out of the box. It merely increases the chance of that being the case. But what buying a Dillon really gets you is their willingness to make sure you're satisfied with the product no matter what they have to do.

If you're willing to take on that responsibility for yourself, a Lee press might work just fine. In your specific case, you weren't able to get it to work reliably, and at this point it's impossible to say exactly why. There is discussion over on the loadmastervideos.com about properly adjusting the indexing rod, and apparently getting that exactly right makes an enormous difference in the longer-term reliability of the press since it apparently eliminates the tendency of the shellplate to want to rotate backwards. It may be that yours wasn't quite adjusted right.

By supporting their products the way they do (infinite no-BS warranty), Dillon has given themselves a lot of incentive to build a press that will run reliably for the long haul and to make sure it's set up properly prior to shipping it. Paying the extra money gets you both and is why it's worth doing if you have any hesitation to "go it alone".

Colorado4Wheel
01-30-2010, 18:59
Sorry man. I have to disagree. Dillon, just like Lee is trying to sell a product. Lee makes HUGE claims of greatness. Do you want to defend those? Just look at any add for a LoadMaster. Or nearly any product made by anyone. It's just a addvertisement. Everyone pretty much knows that you ignore the claims of greatness. Reality is the 1050 is about as complicated of a press you can buy. Freak had some problems. 1050's are complicated. The more complicated something is the more likely you will have to fiddle with it. Go to Brian Enos forums. LOTS of people need help with a 1050. It's has a steep learning curve. 550 is about as simple of a press you can buy. You want reliability and simplicity I got one name for you 550. It's not perfect. Nothing is. Buts its about as simple as they come. If you want to take it a step further, I would add the Lee Classic Turret. Not as overenginereed as a Dillon but pretty darn simple. And once you get the hang of it your hard pressed to have many problems if you keep the Lee Powder measure and do what a normal person should do. Force anything and it will break.

dudel
01-31-2010, 05:17
Are you sure that's true?

The side of the case is gripping the wall of the chamber at 15,000 to 35,000 PSI (depending on your load and caliber), while the rearwards pressure is almost certainly a small (and likely very small) fraction of that: in essence, it's the amount of pressure needed to push the bullet out of the case and to swage it into the rifling. Lube reduces the effort to size the case by about half, so figure it reduces the effective gripping pressure by half as well (so 7,500 to 17,500 PSI).

I would think that lube, or lack thereof, would make little difference in the face of the above.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=techservice&page=faq

It issue being that as the pressure starts to go down, the brass releases first, while there's still lots of pressure in the chamber.

Don

WiskyT
01-31-2010, 07:05
In theory, Dudel is right. Lubed cases increase the thrust force on the bolt face. I would not make a habbit of using oily high powered rounds in a bolt action rifle. Over time it would probably beat the heck out of the action and stretch things out.

Many people on here tumble their cases in Nufinish. That leaves about as much of a waxy surface on the cases as the Pledge does.

kcbrown
01-31-2010, 07:48
Sorry man. I have to disagree. Dillon, just like Lee is trying to sell a product. Lee makes HUGE claims of greatness. Do you want to defend those? Just look at any add for a LoadMaster. Or nearly any product made by anyone. It's just a addvertisement. Everyone pretty much knows that you ignore the claims of greatness.


Of course.

The two companies take vastly different approaches to the problem of selling a product. They're almost diametrically opposed, actually.

Lee makes bloated claims about how great their products are, sets a low price on them, and follows that up with reasonable, but not outstanding, service. The products themselves most certainly aren't as good as Lee claims in most cases, but they are adequate for the most part (there are some exceptions). Some require engineering-level skill in order to make them work well. Of those, some require that level of skill more or less continuously.

Dillon practically understates their claims about their products (even in their "Blue Press" publication), charges a relatively high price for them, and backs them like their lives depend on it. The products are engineered well and built well.


In the case of Dillon, since their products have an infinite "no BS" warranty, they have a lot of incentive to engineer them and build them in such a way that they will last and are unlikely to break, because breakage means calls to their support line and, sometimes, shipment of replacement parts and, occasionally, a trip back to the factory for a workover. The more of that there is, the more expensive for Dillon it is, and thus the less profitable they are. With an infinite "fix everything with no questions asked" warranty, it is in their best interests to design and build the highest quality product they can (within the price point they're targeting) in order to keep the long-term costs of support down. Obviously they're constrained by what the market can bear in terms of what they can charge, but that places a ceiling on what they can put into engineering and production and their model gives them incentive to come as close to that ceiling as possible on the engineering and production side. I fail to see why you would disagree with this.



Reality is the 1050 is about as complicated of a press you can buy. Freak had some problems. 1050's are complicated. The more complicated something is the more likely you will have to fiddle with it. Go to Brian Enos forums. LOTS of people need help with a 1050. It's has a steep learning curve.
Perhaps. It's entirely possible that Freak's problems were entirely of his own making. Based on my examination of the instructions, the 1050 doesn't appear to be significantly more complicated to set up than a 650 with a casefeeder.

These presses come adjusted and calibrated from the factory, so aside from assembly there theoretically isn't anything more to do other than the usual adjustments (powder charge, bullet seating depth, etc.).

Freak ran into significant problems despite that, and the nature of his problems were such that I think it's unlikely they were the result of improper user adjustment. There's the slight possibility that there were assembly errors on his part, but even that seems unlikely given the problems he had.



550 is about as simple of a press you can buy. You want reliability and simplicity I got one name for you 550. It's not perfect. Nothing is. Buts its about as simple as they come. If you want to take it a step further, I would add the Lee Classic Turret. Not as overenginereed as a Dillon but pretty darn simple. And once you get the hang of it your hard pressed to have many problems if you keep the Lee Powder measure and do what a normal person should do. Force anything and it will break.I agree with all of this. The reason I generally apply minimal force to do any particular thing is that too much force tends to break things.

VN350X10
01-31-2010, 13:45
From personal experience I can state that a 1050 comes CLOSE, but not exact out of the box, even when they're caliber spec'd & the Dillon dies are factory installed.
I just helped a friend set up his new 1050, we finished the details & check out last night, I loaded 10 rds. of .308 Win. for it's "final inspection".
Total of about 7 hrs. to get everything exact as he wanted it, but now it's going to be capable of turning out match grade ammo.
He's a REAL serious .308 guy & this 1050 is DEDICATED to .308, probably will never change the setup as it is right now. Plans are to duplicate the Federal .308 match ammo, with the Sierra 168 gr. BTHP.
I've had my 1050 for about 7 or 8 yrs. & it can get out of adjustment, but not real likely, usually things go wrong on a 1050 because of parts wearing out or breakage(not often).

uncle albert

Colorado4Wheel
02-01-2010, 16:50
Perhaps. It's entirely possible that Freak's problems were entirely of his own making. Based on my examination of the instructions, the 1050 doesn't appear to be significantly more complicated to set up than a 650 with a casefeeder.

These presses come adjusted and calibrated from the factory, so aside from assembly there theoretically isn't anything more to do other than the usual adjustments (powder charge, bullet seating depth, etc.).

Freak ran into significant problems despite that, and the nature of his problems were such that I think it's unlikely they were the result of improper user adjustment. There's the slight possibility that there were assembly errors on his part, but even that seems unlikely given the problems he had.


I agree with all of this. The reason I generally apply minimal force to do any particular thing is that too much force tends to break things.


After ready Uncle Alberts discription of setting up a 1050 do you want to change your opinion a little? 7 hours is a long time to setup and adjust a new press. I have not torn down a 1050. Just watched my friend run his. It's NOTHING at all like a 650/550/LnL

You got to love how your using Freak as a example of Dillons issues. He broke one thing, Dillon got on this forum and said "we are sending out the parts" then freak disappeared.

WiskyT
02-01-2010, 17:30
You got to love how your using Freak as a example of Dillons issues. He broke one thing, Dillon got on this forum and said "we are sending out the parts" then freak disappeared.

Are you saying that Dillon's East Coast customer service reps (I think they share an office with a paving company in Bayonne) were sent out to help Freak out with his "problem"?

Colorado4Wheel
02-01-2010, 17:43
Did not "rub him out" ? I doubt it. But they do have the technology.

kcbrown
02-01-2010, 17:52
After ready Uncle Alberts discription of setting up a 1050 do you want to change your opinion a little? 7 hours is a long time to setup and adjust a new press. I have not torn down a 1050. Just watched my friend run his. It's NOTHING at all like a 650/550/LnL


Yeah, that does give me a bit of pause.

What in the world were they doing that took 7 hours?!? The steps in the instructions don't hint at anything of the complexity that would justify spending that kind of time.

Are Dillon's instructions for the 1050 horribly lacking or incomplete?



You got to love how your using Freak as a example of Dillons issues. He broke one thing, Dillon got on this forum and said "we are sending out the parts" then freak disappeared.Um, no. I'm not using him as an example of how Dillon has issues in general, I'm using him as an example of how even Dillons can have issues. That's a subtle but important distinction.

My only argument has been that Dillons aren't perfect: when you buy one, you're not buying a guarantee that it will function perfectly out of the box. You're buying a guarantee that Dillon will do whatever it takes to make things right. Their business model makes the chance of a flawless out-of-the-box experience quite high, but it's not 100%, because it can't be.

It is almost certainly about as good as it gets, though.

kcbrown
02-01-2010, 17:53
Are you saying that Dillon's East Coast customer service reps (I think they share an office with a paving company in Bayonne) were sent out to help Freak out with his "problem"?

:rofl:

Colorado4Wheel
02-01-2010, 18:01
My only argument has been that Dillons aren't perfect: when you buy one, you're not buying a guarantee that it will function perfectly out of the box. You're buying a guarantee that Dillon will do whatever it takes to make things right. Their business model makes the chance of a flawless out-of-the-box experience quite high, but it's not 100%, because it can't be.

It is almost certainly about as good as it gets, though.

No arguement from me. Especially after Freak "said 'Good Bye'"

kcbrown
02-23-2010, 01:15
I had an opportunity to reread this thread and noticed that while I mentioned that I got my indexing problem solved, I never mentioned the specific combination of things that resulted in the resolution of the problem. So, here they are:

1. The shellplate drive bolt was defective: the hex hole was located at an offset from center. This could cause the hex ratchet and the ratchet gear to mate at an angle instead of straight on.

2. The index adjustment screw was free to turn. I placed a piece of foam in the space in the shellplate carrier adjacent to the screw. This places pressure against the screw and prevents it from turning on its own.

3. Finally, one thing that is very important is for there to be no possible forwards or rearwards movement of the index adjustment screw -- it should only rotate about its long axis. To secure the adjustment screw so that such movement isn't possible, you have to place the carrier cover with an eye towards that and then secure it.


Between those three things, the end result has been no indexing failures at all.


And so, as a result, I was forced to buy a Loadmaster! :rofl:

El_Ron1
02-23-2010, 10:22
You have made the old Reds happy.





http://i45.tinypic.com/33e22oj.jpg

kcbrown
01-02-2012, 18:19
I had an opportunity to reread this thread and noticed that while I mentioned that I got my indexing problem solved, I never mentioned the specific combination of things that resulted in the resolution of the problem. So, here they are:

1. The shellplate drive bolt was defective: the hex hole was located at an offset from center. This could cause the hex ratchet and the ratchet gear to mate at an angle instead of straight on.

2. The index adjustment screw was free to turn. I placed a piece of foam in the space in the shellplate carrier adjacent to the screw. This places pressure against the screw and prevents it from turning on its own.

3. Finally, one thing that is very important is for there to be no possible forwards or rearwards movement of the index adjustment screw -- it should only rotate about its long axis. To secure the adjustment screw so that such movement isn't possible, you have to place the carrier cover with an eye towards that and then secure it.


Between those three things, the end result has been no indexing failures at all.


And so, as a result, I was forced to buy a Loadmaster! :rofl:

Since I'm once again talking about the Pro 1000 in a different thread, I found myself revisiting this thread and noticed that the above is incomplete. There is one more very important thing that took care of the indexing issue:

4. The shellplate and the drive bolt have to be assembled in such a way that they cannot rotate relative to each other during operation. The Lee instructions, if followed precisely, yield a distinct possibility that the drive bolt can come loose and rotate slightly on the ram upstroke, and that will cause an indexing failure on the ram downstroke. Details here: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1294318