Concealed Carry Shotgun? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glockjack
11-15-2009, 22:58
Saturday, I attended the 8hr class for my CCW and passed! I cant wait for DPS to send me my card now.

This has got me thinking... Winter is upon us; thick, heavy and long clothing....You could conceal a cruiser fairly easily.

Im not saying I am, but if I can find the best rig to get that puppy to hang under my armpit, it would be an interesting day.

Any thoughts or ideas of how to carry something like this?

B.Reid
11-16-2009, 08:40
You can get the barrel cut down for a $5.00 tax stamp as long as you don't put a stock on it!

smoke
11-16-2009, 10:06
You can get the barrel cut down for a $5.00 tax stamp as long as you don't put a stock on it!

I think you are wrong about this. In order for the shotgun to qualify as an AOW, it has to be maufactured that way from the factory or other Title 2 manufacturer. It is not as easy as buying a Cruiser and having the barrel cut and never putting a stock on it.

As always, if I'm wrong please correct me!!!

BigNic
11-16-2009, 11:07
but if I can find the best rig to get that puppy to hang under my armpit, it would be an interesting day.

Any thoughts or ideas of how to carry something like this?

Consider this an interesting day!

Firepower Rig:
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n333/Nicolai1234/firepower.jpg

Andrews Leather
http://www.andrewsleather.com/

Harley Rider 55
11-16-2009, 11:25
I legally concealed carried shotguns and carbines long before Texas ever issued CHL's.

B.Reid
11-16-2009, 11:46
I legally concealed carried shotguns and carbines long before Texas ever issued CHL's.

HOW!
:wow:

G23c
11-16-2009, 11:48
Consider this an interesting day!

Firepower Rig:
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n333/Nicolai1234/firepower.jpg

Andrews Leather
http://www.andrewsleather.com/

that is a serious SD setup.

glockjack
11-16-2009, 12:30
Consider this an interesting day!

Firepower Rig:
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n333/Nicolai1234/firepower.jpg

Andrews Leather
http://www.andrewsleather.com/

THATS EXACTLY what I'm looking for...but the price tag..ouch! Great pic tho!

space_weazel
11-16-2009, 18:27
The $5 tax would be applicable if the shotgun was a factory pistol grip gun, and then I was sent to a Title II manufacturer and they did the work, however the wait is basically the same so spend the $195 extra and get the option to put a stock on it if you wanted.

This is the way I have read it for a while and seems to be accepted by most.

14GDHPs4ME
11-16-2009, 18:34
I was unaware that a person could legally CC a shotgun. Really?

smoke
11-16-2009, 18:44
The $5 tax would be applicable if the shotgun was a factory pistol grip gun, and then I was sent to a Title II manufacturer and they did the work, however the wait is basically the same so spend the $195 extra and get the option to put a stock on it if you wanted.

This is the way I have read it for a while and seems to be accepted by most.

That's my point. A Title 2 guy is going to charge you out the yeng-yang to cut the barrel to obtain a $5 stamp (if it would apply to a Cruizer to begin with????). Or you can pay about the same amount ($200), do the cutting yourself, and maintain all options.

amblackm
11-16-2009, 19:32
The $5 tax stamp has nothing to do with who cuts the barrel, etc. It is for creating a Any Other Weapon (AOW), which is a short barreled pistol with a forward pistol grip (like a HK MP5) or a shotgun with a short barrel and no stock. If you want to create a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS), which is defined as a shotgun with a stock and a barrel length less than 18 inches, then the tax stamp costs $200.

Don't try to figure out the gun laws in this country. The more you learn, the more you learn they were written for political reasons and don't make much since at all...

Andrew

Deputy206
11-16-2009, 20:51
Consider this an interesting day!

Firepower Rig:
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n333/Nicolai1234/firepower.jpg

Andrews Leather
http://www.andrewsleather.com/

Now this awesome.

Texas357
11-16-2009, 21:18
What state is this? check local laws.

Shotgun not the most convenient gun to carry daily.

DaGroaner
11-16-2009, 22:19
I was unaware that a person could legally CC a shotgun. Really?

Not in my state(WA). Handguns only. That's why I bought an AK pistol. :cool:

DSM1290
11-17-2009, 19:03
In Ohio it has to be a gun that was manufactured to be shot with one hand.

vafish
11-17-2009, 20:42
The $5 tax stamp has nothing to do with who cuts the barrel, etc. It is for creating a Any Other Weapon (AOW), which is a short barreled pistol with a forward pistol grip (like a HK MP5) or a shotgun with a short barrel and no stock. If you want to create a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS), which is defined as a shotgun with a stock and a barrel length less than 18 inches, then the tax stamp costs $200.

Don't try to figure out the gun laws in this country. The more you learn, the more you learn they were written for political reasons and don't make much since at all...

Andrew

The tax to create an AOW is still $200. Or it has to be built by a manufacturer with a SOT (IIRC about $3,000 per year).

The tax to transfer one that is already built is $5.

Noblinger
11-17-2009, 22:59
................

space_weazel
11-18-2009, 00:16
The tax to create an AOW is still $200. Or it has to be built by a manufacturer with a SOT (IIRC about $3,000 per year).

The tax to transfer one that is already built is $5.

I concur with this, but can I assume that a AOW that a SOT builds has to come from somewhere, so can you send a pistol grip gun you purchased as a pistol grip be sent to the SOT and they build it and then transfer it? Or do the SOT's have to get virgin receivers from the original manufacturer?

Bullman
11-18-2009, 05:39
The way I understand it, since the cruiser is sold from the manufacturer with a pistol grip on it, it can be converted for 5 bucks since it was originally made without a stock. Any shotgun originally made and sold with a shoulder stock on it, has to have the 200 buck tax stamp if it was converted to a SBS.

Of course, I could be wrong, usually am but that is how I understand it.

vafish
11-18-2009, 10:18
The way I understand it, since the cruiser is sold from the manufacturer with a pistol grip on it, it can be converted for 5 bucks since it was originally made without a stock. Any shotgun originally made and sold with a shoulder stock on it, has to have the 200 buck tax stamp if it was converted to a SBS.

Of course, I could be wrong, usually am but that is how I understand it.


It is $200 to manufacture an AOW and $5 to transfer it.

That's part of the reason the Serbu Shorty costs $800.

From the BATFE FAQ page.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

(M3) What is the tax on making an NFA firearm?

The tax is $200 for making any NFA firearm, [B]including "any other weapon."

(M16) How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm? [Back]

Prior to making a firearm, the individual must submit ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch, and receive approval. The applicant must follow the procedures described in Question M15 concerning photographs, fingerprints and certifications. The applicant must forward the original and a duplicate of the form along with a check or money order for $200 made payable to the Bureau of ATF. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Applications to make a firearm will not be approved if Federal, State, or local law prohibits possession of the firearm.

[26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 479.61-65]

Narc1911
11-18-2009, 22:58
If WA wasn't so lame for NFA stuff I would own a Serbu Shorty in a heartbeat.

space_weazel
11-19-2009, 01:51
It is $200 to manufacture an AOW and $5 to transfer it.

That's part of the reason the Serbu Shorty costs $800.

From the BATFE FAQ page.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

Hahahah! Now I'm getting the turkey you are serving, thanks for clearing that up.

Evela
11-19-2009, 05:56
Is that a shotgun or are you just happy to see me?

vafish
11-19-2009, 06:20
I concur with this, but can I assume that a AOW that a SOT builds has to come from somewhere, so can you send a pistol grip gun you purchased as a pistol grip be sent to the SOT and they build it and then transfer it? Or do the SOT's have to get virgin receivers from the original manufacturer?


I really don't know, probably would have to call the ATF or a SOT holder and ask them. You may also have problems getting the SOT holder to believe you that the shotgun has never had a but stock put on it.

But after the SOT holder charges you to make the AOW it would probably be cheaper to just SBS a used shotgun yourself and just pay the $200 tax. If you think about it you have to ship the gun to the SOT, pay them to make it and have it shipped back to you or transferred to you.

Bullman
11-19-2009, 10:07
If you pay to have your shotgun turned into an SBS, can you then put a pistol grip on it or do you have to then pay 5 bucks to AOW?

smoke
11-19-2009, 11:28
If you pay to have your shotgun turned into an SBS, can you then put a pistol grip on it or do you have to then pay 5 bucks to AOW?

Stock or PG makes no difference on SBS, so you can pretty much do what you want with it, as far as configuration. You just cannot put a stock on an AOW.

An even stupider law envolves putting a foregrip on a pistol, thus changing it to an AOW, but that's another subject.

HiVelSword
11-19-2009, 12:08
In my state it's very specific. I have a permit that allows me to carry pistols and revolvers. An AOW (18" Cruiser or rifle etc.) is neither a pistol or a revolver.

Regardless, use one (from concealment) and have fun convincing the jury you're not dangerously retarded.

vafish
11-19-2009, 12:14
In my state it's very specific. I have a permit that allows me to carry pistols and revolvers. An AOW (18" Cruiser or rifle etc.) is neither a pistol or a revolver.

Regardless, use one (from concealment) and have fun convincing the jury you're not dangerously retarded.


Virginia has a "Concealed Handgun Permit". We are allowed to carry only handguns concealed. They changed it from a "Concealed Weapons Permit" when we went Shall Issue in 1995.

HiVelSword
11-19-2009, 12:25
I think a great scene in a movie would be where the hero (gun guy) manages to get pulled over.

Officer: "Sir, are you carrying weapons?"

Hero: "I've got a 3" 629 .44 mag"

Officer: "A .44 mag? Jeez. Any other weapons? A back-up for that?"

Hero: "That IS my back-up"

Officer: "wat"

Hero shows officer the Serbu. Officer has nightmares for weeks.

jhmayhem
11-19-2009, 14:00
Someone has been watching too much of The Wire.

http://www.elizabethcrane.com/blog/uploaded_images/25_omar_lgl-760416.jpg

Bullman
11-19-2009, 16:42
I love watching Wanted Dead or Alive with Rutger Hauer, his shotgun was cool, his back up was a HK P7

goodale
11-19-2009, 17:41
why would you want to lug around a whip-it gun? I could see if you were a body guard protecting some high value client and you wanted some heavy artillery....or robbing a bank. Leave it in the truck or in the scabbard on your horse.

B.Reid
11-19-2009, 18:38
In my state it's very specific. I have a permit that allows me to carry pistols and revolvers. An AOW (18" Cruiser or rifle etc.) is neither a pistol or a revolver.

Regardless, use one (from concealment) and have fun convincing the jury you're not dangerously retarded.

If the feds say its a pistol its a pistol

Cavalry Doc
11-19-2009, 19:02
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Taurus-Judge/DSC00272.jpg


http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/24590ef828d5a4.jpg

Eagles1181
11-22-2009, 09:28
All y'all that are referencing the name of your permits, or the permissions your permits give you, need to check your local laws before trashing this guys idea. In Texas we also have a Concealed Handgun License. The permit gives a holder the right to carry a gun that is designed to be fired with one hand. However, this does not prevent us from carrying a rifle or shotgun because we are allowed to carry "long guns" open or concealed without a permit.

Eagle :eagle:

tuica
11-22-2009, 10:50
You may want to investigate your state's CC laws. In Oregon, a Concealed Handgun Permit means just that. No long arms, excessive length knives, cross-bows, spears...etc. Word to the wise.

Neener Neener
11-22-2009, 11:42
http://www.gunblast.com/images/Taurus-Judge/DSC00272.jpg


http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/24590ef828d5a4.jpg


Doc read my mind..............

HiVelSword
11-22-2009, 11:55
All y'all that are referencing the name of your permits, or the permissions your permits give you, need to check your local laws before trashing this guys idea. In Texas we also have a Concealed Handgun License. The permit gives a holder the right to carry a gun that is designed to be fired with one hand. However, this does not prevent us from carrying a rifle or shotgun because we are allowed to carry "long guns" open or concealed without a permit.

Eagle :eagle:

Legal or not doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Javelin
11-22-2009, 12:04
All y'all that are referencing the name of your permits, or the permissions your permits give you, need to check your local laws before trashing this guys idea. In Texas we also have a Concealed Handgun License. The permit gives a holder the right to carry a gun that is designed to be fired with one hand. However, this does not prevent us from carrying a rifle or shotgun because we are allowed to carry "long guns" open or concealed without a permit.

Eagle :eagle:

I am not a legal expert on Texas law but I believe that your long guns must be stored in a commercially made rifle/shotgun case.

:wavey:

glockfanbob
11-22-2009, 12:53
Regardless, use one (from concealment) and have fun convincing the jury you're not dangerously retarded.

:rofl: I may not have choosen those exact words but that is what I was thinking.

bobsmith21
11-22-2009, 14:49
I was thinking about that with my mossberg 500a, but it"s about 32" with the pistol grip on. I'm over 6' tall but would still hang 3-4 inches below my knee. I agree about over overkill anyway, my Glock 20 should be fine. What kind of collateral damage could occur using a 12ga out in public?

Glockster17
11-22-2009, 15:24
Does your state allow any type of firearm for CCW? In FL it is only handguns. The AR-15 or previously mentioned AK pistol is the max fire power I can think of in this situation. Interesting rig though... If I was putting that thing on, I would reconsider going wherever I was going to need such a thing!! But it is Badass. --Rob

2952
11-22-2009, 15:45
In the State of California, the CCW laws say you can carry a pistol, revolver or other firearm. Some Sheriffs allow the carrying of shotguns concealed.

If you want to play in the game, make sure you know the rules or do not complain.

Bullman
11-22-2009, 15:56
Doesn't the lack of a stock make it a handgun??? after all, that is why you have to register it NFA, short barrel, shorter than what is legal for a long gun, making it a handgun right?

Not that I would ever use it as such, that would just be asking to go to court. Be fun to play with though.

HK45Mark23
11-22-2009, 16:37
Consider this an interesting day!

Firepower Rig:
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n333/Nicolai1234/firepower.jpg

Andrews Leather
http://www.andrewsleather.com/


I own a Fire Power Rig from Andrews Leather.

I also have a PWC 15.5" Mossberg 500 with a 6.5" barrel that rides in it with my G-20.

It is super easy to carry, conceal.

I ordered the Fire Power Rig with the 10 shotgun shell strip under the pistol. You can also order it with a strip of 6 instead.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/firepower.htm

http://www.precisionweaponscorp.com/SAW.htm

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

This KEG is great!

http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/KEG_12/keg_12.html

I have owned my setup for a year and a half, carried it many times. What a hoot it is to shoot that little shotgun!!!

Bullman
11-22-2009, 17:40
All I can say is that it must be a lot of fun. I wish I could own one, but I don't think my boss would sign the paperwork, SBS's are frowned upon.

Bob Ash
11-23-2009, 10:13
Sure, why not?

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x8/BobAsh_album/img010small-1.jpg

glockjack
11-23-2009, 23:08
I live in AZ and can't find any law that specificly says I can only conceal carry pistols. Arizona IS the wild west, and this state LOVES its guns. BIG TIME.

Than again, it was alot to read and I may have missed it. You can have a looksy: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/SearchResults.asp?SearchedFrom=%2FArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp&SearchPhrase=13-3112&Scope=%2Fars

Its a Concealed Weapons Permit, not a Concealed Handgun Permit. And the card only says it does not authorize me to carry a prohibited weapon by law. And last I checked, shotguns arent prohibited.

Besides, I'm not saying I would CCW a shotty, but that it would be interesting.

vafish
11-24-2009, 06:37
Doesn't the lack of a stock make it a handgun??? after all, that is why you have to register it NFA, short barrel, shorter than what is legal for a long gun, making it a handgun right?

Not that I would ever use it as such, that would just be asking to go to court. Be fun to play with though.


I was going to say no, but after reading the definitions of an AOW, pistol gripped shotguns are registered as AOW's because they do not fit the definition of a shotgun (which requires a shoulder stock).

You might get away with it, but you might also have to spend a lot of money on lawyers fees to do so.

Bullman
11-24-2009, 10:22
Doubt I will ever have the need to find out anyway.

Eagles1181
11-24-2009, 23:31
I am not a legal expert on Texas law but I believe that your long guns must be stored in a commercially made rifle/shotgun case.

:wavey:


Negative. You are allowed to carry them loaded down main street if you wish. Actually people do, normally for the purpose of making a political statement. However, out in the country it is not uncommon to see them in the back window of trucks.

Eagle :eagle:

Eagles1181
11-24-2009, 23:33
Legal or not doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Never claimed it was a good idea to have a shotgun as a EDC weapon. All I was saying we that just because your state license allows to you carry a handgun, don't assume it is illegal to carry a shotgun.

Eagle :eagle:

Texas357
11-25-2009, 11:07
Negative. You are allowed to carry them loaded down main street if you wish. Actually people do, normally for the purpose of making a political statement. However, out in the country it is not uncommon to see them in the back window of trucks.

Eagle :eagle:

Now, for the viewers at home, is it legal to conceal a long gun?

:cool:

HK45Mark23
11-25-2009, 13:41
I carry my PWC shotgun in the Andrews Firepower rig as often as I feel. Legal in Indiana!

Bullman
11-25-2009, 15:42
How about some pics of the shotgun and the rig, a little porn would be nice.

M1Garand
11-26-2009, 16:07
that is a serious SD setup.

R U serious? That is... just wrong.

Harley Rider 55
11-26-2009, 16:11
HOW!
:wow:
Under a coat.

Harley Rider 55
11-26-2009, 16:13
Now, for the viewers at home, is it legal to conceal a long gun?

:cool:
Texas has no "concealed" statute.

Harley Rider 55
11-26-2009, 16:17
I am not a legal expert on Texas law but I believe that your long guns must be stored in a commercially made rifle/shotgun case.

:wavey:

Negative. Feel free to conceal your legally owned SBS under your coat. Put your loaded AR in the rifle rack of your truck. It's all good.

Harley Rider 55
11-27-2009, 08:42
I'm going motorcycle riding today with my AOW shotgun slung over my shoulder.

Reswob
11-27-2009, 23:07
That's my point. A Title 2 guy is going to charge you out the yeng-yang to cut the barrel to obtain a $5 stamp (if it would apply to a Cruizer to begin with????). Or you can pay about the same amount ($200), do the cutting yourself, and maintain all options.
Mossberg "JIC" Cruiser's come from the factory without a stock, so they are surely applicable to be made into AOW's (although I don't know that there is a prerequisite for making an AOW that the weapon never wore a stock, or just that you can't put one on once it's an AOW?).

You can also go to a class III dealer and buy a factory AOW. There is one semi-close to me that carries a Mossy 500 14" for not much if any more than a 500 18", +$5 transfer.

55 Panhead
11-30-2009, 14:23
Now, for the viewers at home, is it legal to conceal a long gun?

:cool:
No such thing as a concealed weapon in Texas unless you have a CHL which requires you keep the handgun concealed.

AOW's, SBS's, and SBR's are all cool to carry as long as you have the tax stamp. No other permits required.

keokeboy
12-03-2009, 18:00
My favorite {rossi 12 ga double bbl coach/ 000 tt load]

smoke
12-04-2009, 08:53
Mossberg "JIC" Cruiser's come from the factory without a stock, so they are surely applicable to be made into AOW's (although I don't know that there is a prerequisite for making an AOW that the weapon never wore a stock, or just that you can't put one on once it's an AOW?).

You can also go to a class III dealer and buy a factory AOW. There is one semi-close to me that carries a Mossy 500 14" for not much if any more than a 500 18", +$5 transfer.

It is my understanding that to qualify as an AOW, it must have never had a stock on it. Otherwise, it must be registered as an SBS.

Bullman
12-04-2009, 12:47
It is my understanding that to qualify as an AOW, it must have never had a stock on it. Otherwise, it must be registered as an SBS.

That is the way I always understood it as well.

usurp31
03-27-2010, 14:47
I own a Fire Power Rig from Andrews Leather.

I also have a PWC 15.5" Mossberg 500 with a 6.5" barrel that rides in it with my G-20.

It is super easy to carry, conceal.

I ordered the Fire Power Rig with the 10 shotgun shell strip under the pistol. You can also order it with a strip of 6 instead.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/firepower.htm

http://www.precisionweaponscorp.com/SAW.htm

http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

This KEG is great!

http://www.safetyharborfirearms.com/KEG_12/keg_12.html

I have owned my setup for a year and a half, carried it many times. What a hoot it is to shoot that little shotgun!!!

Nice rig!

HK45Mark23
03-28-2010, 10:59
I open carried it to the 2nd Amendment Patriots a few months ago.

Hendricks433
04-16-2010, 21:03
I open carried it to the 2nd Amendment Patriots a few months ago.

Get some pics up already.

BuckeyeBlast
04-16-2010, 22:07
All of the trends in the gun industry tend to point to smaller, more compact firearms for CCW and here we have a thread about carrying a shot gun. No way in hell I'm going to CCW a shot gun for multiple reasons. I really thought that when I opened this thread it would be 3 pages of "you're crazy", I'm surprised it's actually 3 pages of how to do it and if it's legal.
If you MUST, then just get that rediculous Taurus Judge and be done with it. Otherwise, if you want more power then just get yourself on target with a more appropriate handgun IMO.

HK45Mark23
04-19-2010, 19:20
The Judge is not a dependable man stopper no matter how you look at it. 410 will never make a good defense round.

HK45Mark23
04-20-2010, 11:54
If you want to see my 15.5" shotgun in a shoulder holster then contact me here in PM and tell me you will be at our 2nd Amendment Patriots meeting and I will wear it for you. Many there have seen me do just that.

Bullman
04-20-2010, 16:17
it would be worth me coming to Indiana just to see that.

HK45Mark23
04-20-2010, 19:03
Hey Bull,

My pics would not be any different or better than the stock ones from the manufacturer.

I have been looking for the ones that I had posted in the past.

It seams as though I can’t find them.

It must be something to do with the new forum program.

Maybe some one can find the pics I have already posted of it.

There will be a Glock 20 or 29, S&W 37 and a Quicksilver 22 pen gun with the PWC shotgun.