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Allegra
11-16-2009, 08:21
Daym , youtube has everything
It's not the f@#$%ng pana, it's the confident indian
Results oriented goals vs performance goals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJf8BHFLfDE&feature=related

Putok-Glock
11-18-2009, 05:45
so simple but never been easy.

since our conscious life, we were taught to expect from anything we do. after acquiring it as second nature, we need to unlearn it or at least not apply it in order to perform what is expected of us, nakakahilo ata!

in our sports, its really true. and its part of the hurdles we have to work on that makes shooting very interesting.

as for goals, performance goals are easier to manage than results-oriented goals. means less pressure, lesser frustration and helps a lot more in bringing positive performance. the one downside to this type of goal is it does not develop the killer instinct of the performer, which could be very usefull during crunch time.

in totality, this expect/dont expect mind game is a very important aspect of our game.

Putok-Glock
11-18-2009, 06:28
could be the reason why, in live fire practice sessions, where expectations are usually low, the performance is usually at high level...but its reversed in the match.

Allegra
11-18-2009, 08:11
so simple but never been easy.

since our conscious life, we were taught to expect from anything we do. after acquiring it as second nature, we need to unlearn it or at least not apply it in order to perform what is expected of us, nakakahilo ata!

in our sports, its really true. and its part of the hurdles we have to work on that makes shooting very interesting.

as for goals, performance goals are easier to manage than results-oriented goals. means less pressure, lesser frustration and helps a lot more in bringing positive performance. the one downside to this type of goal is it does not develop the killer instinct of the performer, which could be very usefull during crunch time.

in totality, this expect/dont expect mind game is a very important aspect of our game.

Double edged sword yang killer instinct na yan bro, IMO
Sometimes, pagpatapos na ang laban at naamoy mo na ang tagumpay , yan killer instinct na yan can be another form of pressure.
Instead of doing the same things that led to success , your going to try even harder.
When you "try" harder, be even faster or more accurate , lalong magkaka loko-loko
I'd say relax , and do the same things you've been doing the whole match

Allegra
11-18-2009, 08:21
could be the reason why, in live fire practice sessions, where expectations are usually low, the performance is usually at high level...but its reversed in the match.


You have to find your optimum level of anxiety
If sa practice maganda ang performance , then pagaralan mo how you can imitate the conditions sa practice pagnasa match ka

Nung laban ni Pacquaio , parati namemention ng mga announcers na parati siya naka ngiti. So relaxed

MAJINKONG
11-18-2009, 17:10
tama si bro Putok-Glock... may classmate ako dati sa highschool na nagawa mag cartwheel/backflip because of result oriented ang mindset niya, what ever the costs khit mabalian siya bones... today, ganyan pa rin mindset niya as applied sa shooting... naging consistent siya na fist size/one hole ang group niya basta puputok, whatever gun, cal, distance at speed... ako trigger happy lang... hehe.

jasonub
11-18-2009, 19:59
nagchampion na naman ako last week using an svi. Oh its the pana!!!

Hahahaha, gugulo nanaman utak ninyo

JEZZZ
11-18-2009, 21:07
Makabili nga ng SVI... sa pana pala eh.

Allegra
11-19-2009, 11:18
barakada ko who works at a call center naiiyak na, matatapos na ang shift wala pang collection
Dapat , Relax lang at wag isipin ang pwede maging result ( zero collection ) , and concentrate sa dapat gawin "right now"
That's an example of using performance goals vs result oriented goals to get you laid..biro lang
Sabihin ko bumili na rin ng svi hehe

jasonub
11-19-2009, 19:20
hehe. Lalo tuloy gumugulo.

Eto sikreto. I dont practice anymore- IDPA since dami ko work. Shooting is simply aiming and pulling the trigger.

Once you call your shot as a hit or an alpha, time to go to the next position and do the same.

Simple lang diba :)

JEZZZ
11-19-2009, 20:16
yap simple lang para ka lang umiihi na nakapikit ang mata...

Putok-Glock
11-20-2009, 23:27
yap simple lang para ka lang umiihi na nakapikit ang mata...

haha, simple lang, as simple as my by-line below hehe, but once you start to think and try to duplicate it, the performance is gone!

and Jason, we will all be a fool to believe its the pana...sti, svi, para, armscor, 1911, 2011, glocks, who cares? its you that causes you to win, never these things. but faith in your equipment is necessary too... keep it up, bro

Putok-Glock
11-21-2009, 00:09
You have to find your optimum level of anxiety
If sa practice maganda ang performance , then pagaralan mo how you can imitate the conditions sa practice pagnasa match ka

Nung laban ni Pacquaio , parati namemention ng mga announcers na parati siya naka ngiti. So relaxed

Im/was a deligent student of this phenom for as long as I can remember. One idea I had struggled w/ was "shoot the match like you practiced", but the prob here was/is, match conditions were very far from practice environs. As a result I could never immitate my practice performance. Not even close to it. But I got to go around this hurdle in a way where i was/am relatively succesful: I reversed the mantra above, I shoot in practice like im in a match. For me, its easier to immitate match pressure/condition, and bring it out in practice. The results in my match perf though not spectacular, were near miraculous, in my standard at least.

jasonub
11-21-2009, 01:59
so what happens if you dont practice and still win matches??? bwhaahaha. gulo ano?

JEZZZ
11-21-2009, 03:05
yan ang di nauubusan ng tsamba, jokes bro... kung baga nasa dugong bughaw mo na seguro ang manalo na walang practice at kung matalo man marami naman pwde idahilan hehe

jimbullet
11-21-2009, 03:20
so what happens if you dont practice and still win matches??? bwhaahaha. gulo ano?

That means you already built a rhythm in you. Some shooting athletes often reach their peak and no matter how much more they practice, it becomes down hill from thereon and this is what the professional coach watches for. In laymans term - burned out.

This is when the athlete is then told to get off the range for a few days even weeks. Upon return, often athletes find themselves at the peak of their performance

Putok-Glock
11-21-2009, 08:38
so what happens if you dont practice and still win matches??? bwhaahaha. gulo ano?

If you dont practice for a time but not long enough to lose your subconscious skills, your conscious self is tranformed into a non-expecting observer.Thus, you had one less big obstacle in your self to perform your best. You felt relaxed, focused and not even thinking of winning. You believed that because you had no practice, there was nothing good to be expected from your game, so you just went ahead and shoot your own game. Little did you know that your game, if allowed to play w/o the workings of your conscious mind, was more than enough to win the match. Proof that we are our best competition, (or worst enemy?)

When Im in a match, I keep the competition w/in. If I compete w/ myself, I have a chance of winning (over myself.) If I compete w/ other shooters outside of myself, I lose all the time. Even if I win the match.

Putok-Glock
11-21-2009, 20:02
need to qualify my post above:

its applicable only for those w/ solid skills on basics and developed techniques, as in Jason's case.

Allegra
11-22-2009, 02:12
Im/was a deligent student of this phenom for as long as I can remember. One idea I had struggled w/ was "shoot the match like you practiced", but the prob here was/is, match conditions were very far from practice environs. As a result I could never immitate my practice performance. Not even close to it. But I got to go around this hurdle in a way where i was/am relatively succesful: I reversed the mantra above, I shoot in practice like im in a match. For me, its easier to immitate match pressure/condition, and bring it out in practice. The results in my match perf though not spectacular, were near miraculous, in my standard at least.


Galing ah! A true student indeed
Matagal ko na gusto pumutok sa bicol , i've never been there
Let's shoot one time pag may level 3 jan
Do you also play golf? I dont yet pero lots of golfers get it
Bihira shooters who do

Allegra
11-22-2009, 02:34
If you dont practice for a time but not long enough to lose your subconscious skills, your conscious self is tranformed into a non-expecting observer.Thus, you had one less big obstacle in your self to perform your best. You felt relaxed, focused and not even thinking of winning. You believed that because you had no practice, there was nothing good to be expected from your game, so you just went ahead and shoot your own game. Little did you know that your game, if allowed to play w/o the workings of your conscious mind, was more than enough to win the match. Proof that we are our best competition, (or worst enemy?)

When Im in a match, I keep the competition w/in. If I compete w/ myself, I have a chance of winning (over myself.) If I compete w/ other shooters outside of myself, I lose all the time. Even if I win the match.

haha coudnt have explained it better myself
In my case, I easily lose focus ewan ko lang because of ADD or I'm just lazy
Which is why I dont shoot well kung iisipin ko sarili ko lang kalaban ko
I need to psyche myself up , kelangan may kalaban
Or else I lose focus , and puro mistakes nagyayari
Right amount of pressure , high but not too high

Was in a level 1 kahapon sa Lipa, after the first stage my mind was wandering
Kelangan magconcentrate talaga, kasi nawala focus

Allegra
11-22-2009, 02:49
so what happens if you dont practice and still win matches??? bwhaahaha. gulo ano?


mother of all skill ang repetition
so if you've done your share ng pracrice at dry fires , may puhunan ka na nang skill na magagamit sa laro
Plus like putok-glock said , your mind doesnt pressure you to win
but you have to keep joining comps or ika nga, "use it or lose it "
Yesterday was my 5th match for the whole year, nasa 82 percent na kay ed yao
and contrary to what I post sa other forums , I dont even hold my gun in between matches hehe
Shooting is slowly improving , dami lang newbie mistakes

Putok-Glock
11-22-2009, 03:58
Galing ah! A true student indeed
Matagal ko na gusto pumutok sa bicol , i've never been there
Let's shoot one time pag may level 3 jan
Do you also play golf? I dont yet pero lots of golfers get it
Bihira shooters who do

haha coudnt have explained it better myself
In my case, I easily lose focus ewan ko lang because of ADD or I'm just lazy
Which is why I dont shoot well kung iisipin ko sarili ko lang kalaban ko
I need to psyche myself up , kelangan may kalaban
Or else I lose focus , and puro mistakes nagyayari
Right amount of pressure , high but not too high

Was in a level 1 kahapon sa Lipa, after the first stage my mind was wandering
Kelangan magconcentrate talaga, kasi nawala focus

thanks for the kind words, sir

Im not into golf but its one of my favs sports. Just didnt had the chance to learn and play it. But I usually see it in cable tv. I understand how its played and scored just by watching it on tv. I can even feel the pressure on the players in the end game.

It doesnt take a golfer's mind to appreciate that our sports is as individual as golf, and that a lot of intellectual work is needed to understand our game. The prob maybe lies in our belief or attitude that shooting is 90% physical skill and 10% devided to other aspects. Maybe its true in the early stages of development. But later, we often wonder why our match performance is very much below our expectations inspite of our high level of skills attained in persistent and consistent practice. Could be that we forgot to develop or mind game so it would be at par w/ our physical skill? So when match day came, we often experience inability to play our best. Physically we are prepared but mentally we are not. Hence, the debacle. Vey few shooters get it because the majority believe otherwise.

losing focus? maybe you have so many interests hehe. My prob is the opposite, how will/can I divert some of my attention/focus from shooting! While most of us find it difficult to dry fire daily, I had to force my self to stay away from it when I needed to rest my elbow w/ tendonitis w/c I got from dry and live fire practice, hah!

and U are always welcome to shoot here sir!

Allegra
11-22-2009, 06:50
thanks for the kind words, sir

Im not into golf but its one of my favs sports. Just didnt had the chance to learn and play it. But I usually see it in cable tv. I understand how its played and scored just by watching it on tv. I can even feel the pressure on the players in the end game.

It doesnt take a golfer's mind to appreciate that our sports is as individual as golf, and that a lot of intellectual work is needed to understand our game. The prob maybe lies in our belief or attitude that shooting is 90% physical skill and 10% devided to other aspects. Maybe its true in the early stages of development. But later, we often wonder why our match performance is very much below our expectations inspite of our high level of skills attained in persistent and consistent practice. Could be that we forgot to develop or mind game so it would be at par w/ our physical skill? So when match day came, we often experience inability to play our best. Physically we are prepared but mentally we are not. Hence, the debacle. Vey few shooters get it because the majority believe otherwise.

losing focus? maybe you have so many interests hehe. My prob is the opposite, how will/can I divert some of my attention/focus from shooting! While most of us find it difficult to dry fire daily, I had to force my self to stay away from it when I needed to rest my elbow w/ tendonitis w/c I got from dry and live fire practice, hah!

and U are always welcome to shoot here sir!

My danger din jan :)
There was a time ganyan ako ka focused sa shooting
Di naman ako mahilig sa baril w/c is why I never put much importance sa equipment. I just loved competeing
Gusto ko lang mag rp team
I guess sa sobrang focus , I did it in 3 years
Immediately after I sold my gun and bought a mountain bike :) ayoko na makakita ng target board at ayoko maka amoy ng pulbura
Ngayon lang ulit after almost a decade nagkaka interes pumutok ulit dahil sa barkada
IPSC will burn you out quickly ( another topic hehe )

Putok-Glock
11-23-2009, 03:22
My danger din jan :)
...
IPSC will burn you out quickly ( another topic hehe )

How true! Ive been there before. But after a week or 2, the drive to improve more returns. Think the drive never really left me...could be in one's personality...Im very makulit outside and inside hehe. I can say w/ certainty now (at 49) that I usually do my best on almost any thing I care to do. If I cant give it my best, I wont touch it. A pretty tiring trait. "Habang nagpapahinga, magtrabaho ka" syndrome. They say its hard to enjoy life if its all work. I say, what if you enjoy the work? Lots of us do shoot for fun. Thats healthy and I respect that. But if I need to be better, Fun is out of the equation. Accept up front that its a lot of work. As I worked hard I came to enjoy it. I learned to accept too the ups & downs of this game, but mostly the downs. Yesterday, prior to my previous post above, I just came from a level 1 match here in Legazpi where I finished 2nd overall in standard div w/ my glock 35. I knew where I made the error that cost me the match, and that error was preventable if I opted to play it conservative. Years ago I would have scolded myself hard and lots of self-blame. But now I can just think it over and use it as a reason to practice more.

Guess your prob was, while you love to compete at highest level, the field you chose was not to your liking. Partida tawag dun hehe. As you said, you are back in the range dahil sa barkada. Hope it will be lovelier the 2nd time around so you would stay for good. And I also hope you are not as old as me, so you will still have the time to recoup the times and efforts lost, sayang sir. When you grow older, you will realize the importance of youth on your side. And that theres no way to turn back and gather whats lost.

Allegra
11-23-2009, 04:27
I'm thinking the problem satin is that there are too many matches
Halos every week meron ( unlike sa abroad )
Nakakapagod sa utak , di mo naman matiis hindi sumali hehe
Theory ko lang yun

I'm actually fitter and lighter than I was 10 years ago kasi triathlon pinalit ko sa ipsc
Kelangan lang dalin kay metrillo ang tuhod ko at bugbog na :)

Putok-Glock
11-27-2009, 18:47
I'm thinking the problem satin is that there are too many matches
Halos every week meron ( unlike sa abroad )
Nakakapagod sa utak , di mo naman matiis hindi sumali hehe
Theory ko lang yun

I'm actually fitter and lighter than I was 10 years ago kasi triathlon pinalit ko sa ipsc
Kelangan lang dalin kay metrillo ang tuhod ko at bugbog na :)

I think too many is much better than too little. Here in Bicol, we are lucky if we have a lev 1 match in a month. Its just recently that we had 2-3 matches in a month, but come next year after the ban, I doubt if the recent trend will continue.

With too little or no matches at all, most shooters wont practice w/ regularity. we have a penchant for that routine, most practice only when an up coming match is coming near. 1 reason why the level of skill and competition dont improve much. If the competition is not so good expect that the one that usually tops it is not so good either. Could be one reason why my glock 35 is competitive here. :embarassed: