How do you get automaitc rifles?

[Clyde in CO]

I went to a full-auto shoot on Veterans Day, now I have the "bug" and I'd like to get some fully auto weapons of my own.

I've searched around on the web, including the ATF site and haven't really found solid directions on how to obtain a class III permit.

I called my local class III dealer, he said all it takes is a clean record and $200 per weapon.

A few years ago I was told that part of the process was for an ATF agent to interview you in person, and there were many stipulations like you had to be a homeowner and have an approved gunsafe. I'm not sure if this is true.

I also heard that class III allows you to have supressors on weapons, including semi auto handugns and non class III firearms. Is this all inclusive with class III, or are there different types of licences?

I'm not looking to be a dealer or a manufacturer, I just want to own a couple of automaitc rifles to take to the range on special occasions.

Any class III holders feedback, advise, and links would be a big help.

Thanks

[utah]

I am not a class III owner but have done a great deal of looking into one. I don’t think the ATF will interview you (I never read anything about that), however, you do pay $200 for the “stamp” (tax), submit to FBI background investigation, wait 90 days, get your local head of law enforcement to sign off that you are a good citizen, and get finger printed. If the chief law enforcement officer will not sign the papers you do not get the gun, period. After I looked into it I realized that it’s not worth the trouble nor expense to own one. The cheapest ones are the little Ingram “mac-11” for around $1100 and the prices go up from there, even a full-auto 10/22 goes for $3500 or more. Suppressors are the same way for obtaining one (finger prints, investigation, $200 stamp, etc…), one great thing about buying one is you can pretty much shoot the snot out of it and a few years from now get close to triple your money out of it if you want to sell. Two years ago H&K MP-5’s were going for $3500 today it’s close to $9000, everything full-auto is that way, M-16’s, Ruger AC556, Galil’s, FN’s everything. One last note, if I had the money I would get a full-auto at the drop of a hat, but like I said IF and MONEY.

Eric

;I

[Jakk]

You are lumping together info from two different things. One is the registration to own a NFA firearm. (National Firearm Act weapons include machineguns, silencers, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and a class known as "Any Other Weapon" or AOW). The other is the license to deal in NFA firearms.

There is no "license" to own machineguns, although some people sometimes refer to the registration paperwork as a license.
To own a machinegun, you need to fill out an application in duplicate. You have to have your local Sheriff or other chief law enforcement officer in your area sign the form. He is not required to sign. Getting a signature is the difficult part in some jurisdictions. Along with the application, you need to include two passport photos, two fingerprint cards, and a check for the $200 transfer tax ($5 for AOWs). Upon approval, ATF will return one of the applications to you. They will have affixed a $200 stamp, showing you have paid the tax. It looks much like a postage stamp. There may be local or state requirements that have to be met too.

Of course, you have to find a gun to buy first. Ordinary citizens are not allowed to possess machineguns made after May 1986. You will need to find a "transferable" gun, one that was made and registered before the cut-off date. Because of this artificial cap on the supply, the cost of transferable MGs has risen dramatically over the past few years. An M16 that sold for $500 in the 80s now sells for between five to ten thousand dollars.

In order to deal in NFA firearms you need a regular type 1 FFL (dealer) or type 7 FFL (manufacturer). Applying for your FFL is when the ATF visits your business premises.

You then pay an annual Special Occupational Tax of $500. Once approved you can deal in NFA guns (including post-86 MGs).

For more info, check out http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

[UZIFORME]

You already talked to the profesional with the answer. The C3 dealer remember but for some reason you want to believe the things some gun show wanna bees have told you.

If you can legally own any firearm you can legally own NFA including machineguns. Buy a gun, get your local sheriff to sign the form, send in fingerprints and photos and a check for $200.
That's it no inspections, no visits from the jack boots, no names going to the top of the list or any other paranoid afraid of the govment crap. The ATF just wants your money. Nuff Said.

I suggest you goto my website, goto NFA info link, goto James Bardwells FAQ link and read it. It has all the info you need to know.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm

[Clyde in CO]

cool, thanks for the info fellas.

[Ninja Monkey]

Originally posted by Clyde in CO
I've searched around on the web, including the ATF site and haven't really found solid directions on how to obtain a class III permit.

It's a tax, not a permit.


I called my local class III dealer, he said all it takes is a clean record and $200 per weapon.


He makes it sound so simple.... ;f


A few years ago I was told that part of the process was for an ATF agent to interview you in person, and there were many stipulations like you had to be a homeowner and have an approved gunsafe. I'm not sure if this is true.


No interview required. The only time I've talked to the ATF is last month when I called them to check the status of my current transfer. Now if you do a personal transfer (vs. a transfer to a corporation), you may have more problems. On a personal transfer you have to get the transfer form signed off by a chief law enforcement officer in your area. IE, your sheriff, chief of police, a county prosecutor, the head of the state police, whatever. Some of them may not sign at all, some may only sign under certain conditions (IE, if you have a safe), some may sign no matter what. It's completely discretionary on their part if they sign. If you go for a corporate transfer, you obviously need to have a corporation to transfer it to, but you can bypass all the CLEO signoff crap and just send the form to the ATF.


I also heard that class III allows you to have supressors on weapons, including semi auto handugns and non class III firearms. Is this all inclusive with class III, or are there different types of licences?


A suppressor is a Class 3 item in and of itself, which means that for some guns (an integrally suppressed machinegun for example), you'd have to pay two taxes: one for the machinegun, and one for the suppressor.

If you want info, the boards at Subguns.com (http://www.subguns.com) are very informative.

[Clyde in CO]

Let's say I want to buy a supressor for my G17.

I'll have to pay the tax for the supressor, of course.

DO I have to pay it for the threadded barell as well?

Also, once I pay the tax and obtain my NFA firearm, is that it or do I have to keep paying each year, as you do to renew the dealer's licence?

I've been checking out subguns.com..... again thanks for the info all.

[RenegadeGlocker]

There is no NFA tax on threaded barrels. But since Glocks do not come with them (unless you live in Finland), you will need to pay to get one from some source. The NFA tax is one-time, not per year.

[newglockr]

JAKK did a fine job of explaining the process. It is not as cumbersome as some people think. As with any government operation, it is a paperwork mill. If you do it right, it works. The only detail that jakk was in error on was the return of the form. Upon approval, the BATF sends the form to the current posessor (seller) of the item. The seller than contacts the buyer and says "come 'n git it"! If your sherrif will sign, you have cleared the biggest and only real hassle. Each county in each state is different, so ask a local dealer.

I have 5 NFA items, 2 more in process and they are a blast. A suprsoor for a Glock may be the next item!

[gjp220]

I have a Ruger 556 and an UZI on the way. $200 Tax per each what a blast to Shoot! Also quite an inve$tment much better than my current Stocks!! ;b

[Clyde in CO]

Congrats gjp

Again, thanks for the good info everybody.

I had a lot of misconceptions.

When I get my first automatic weapon I'll post pics!

[TLHelmer]

Good information. I will email this to a friend that is interested.

[Kcolg]

I know it is someone else's thread, but thought I would ask a ;d as well about NFA.

Does the state you live in matter. I.E. Missouri? where I live. I am just wanting a suppressed Ruger 10/22. Does your state have to allow Class III items as well, or does Federal Law supercede both state and local laws?

[Jakk]

Kclog,
Yes, state laws apply also. for a quick run-down of which states allow what, click here: NFA FAQ (http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt)
Scroll down near the bottom.
If you live in MO, you are pretty much out of luck for silencers. I have a couple of cans that I owned before moving to MO. They have to live in another state, and get used maybe once a year :(
MO does all all other types of NFA toys, but only for those with some kind of FFL. You can use a C&R FFL (Curio & Relic) to satisfy this state requirement, even if it's not a C&R gun. This costs $30 for 3 years. It also allows you to buy guns on the C&R list and ship directly to your house. You also get dealer pricing at Brownells and other places. (That's worth the price of the license even if you don't get a gun)

For more info on this check out cruffeler.com (http://www.cruffler.com).

What part of MO do you live in?

[Kcolg]

From the "Four States".....Joplin area.

Thanks for the info on C and R. I did not realize it satisfied MO requirement for FFL to purchase FA weapons.

Now then any suggestions on what to buy? around $2k, that has a good reputation. I can't believe MO allows FA but not silencers/suppressors.

[Soup]

How does this apply to "assault weapons" made after the ban in 1994? For example, would you be able to submit the paperwork, pay the $200, and buy an LE only AR (i.e. semi only but with the "evil" goodies like a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and telescoping stock)? After all, it's made after 86 but it's not a machine gun...

[Ninja Monkey]

The NFA has nothing to do with the AW ban, so no, you can't pay a tax to get a post-ban configured as a pre-ban. The NFA only applies to machineguns, AOW's, destructive devices, short-barrel rifles and shotguns and silencers.

[ChiefBDT]

I have three of my own. All suppressed. Just a word to the wise. If you get one where the suppressor is removable it will cost you another 200 for that suppressor. However, if the weapon comes suppressed, and can't be easily removed, they will only charge you the 200 fee once. I have a home in Colorado as well and you may want to check with the local SD to see if they will approve, or have any restrictions on Class IIIs. Good luck and be prepared to wait a while for your stamp.
Stay Safe, ChiefBDT