Bullet modification. too much time on my hands [Archive] - Glock Talk

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drcoffee
11-23-2009, 18:34
Okay, I'm tired of looking for Hornady's Critcal Defense for a reasonable price. Here's a thought. I've done some prototyping using a mold making 2-part silicone rubber called OOMOO 25. Once it hardens, it is very flexible yet dense/firm. It is poured and does not retain air bubbles. What I'm going to try is to fill the HP cavity in my Federal Hydra shok self defense loads with this rubber. I'll need to make some gelatin to test fire it and see if the clothed expansion is better or worse.

From looking at the bullet, there is a spike in the center of the hp. This should help force the rubber outward making the bullet expand. Since the tip is filled, it can't get clogged. The hydrodynamics of the rubber will help with reliable expansion. At least that's my hypothesis.

The OOMOO 30 costs $25 per quart. That should go along way for a lot less. Since it is poured into the cavity, the fit will be perfect. And rubber won't be affected by ambient temperature. In fact, once the bullet has been fired, the extreme heat will soften the rubber making it more viscous on impact. The weight will be negligible

Any thoughts?


.http://www.fatwallet.com/attachments/15566_federalhydra_shok_380acp.jpghttp://cdn.dickblick.com/items/335/62/33562-6040-2ww-m.jpg

Atomic Punk
11-23-2009, 18:53
how thin is it when poured? if the stuff is to thick when pored it may not settle completely in the cavity.

dakrat
11-23-2009, 22:07
I wouldnt bother with it. thats one less thing to explain to the judge if you have to use your "modified" rounds for self defense

dussandr
11-23-2009, 22:11
Sounds like it'll leave a barrel full of rubber.

ked
11-23-2009, 23:10
i like the idea, but i would worry about it working loose on the bullets in the magazine. if it did, it might jam the magazine. at least the hydra-shoks have the peg in the cavity to help hold onto the plug.

final decision, don't do it! IMHO.

ked:wavey:

ps: you are right about having too much time on your hands!:tongueout:

thorn137
11-23-2009, 23:28
Any thoughts?

Yep.

You're about to do something that at minimum is rather pointless, and on the other end of the scale possibly quite dangerous.

Stop now before you hurt yourself.

thorn

drcoffee
11-24-2009, 06:18
I wouldnt bother with it. thats one less thing to explain to the judge if you have to use your "modified" rounds for self defense

I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.

drcoffee
11-24-2009, 06:19
Sounds like it'll leave a barrel full of rubber.

Why? It hardens to near rigid. It's not going to melt in the barrel.

drcoffee
11-24-2009, 06:23
how thin is it when poured? if the stuff is to thick when pored it may not settle completely in the cavity.

it pours nicely and allows air bubbles to surface. I've used it for mold making and it will completely fill the pocket. It would have to to maintain proper weight distribution.

Years back, I played with inserting a primer in the cavity. That would have been hard to explain to a jury, I will admit. :rofl:

vafish
11-24-2009, 08:17
Yep.

You're about to do something that at minimum is rather pointless, and on the other end of the scale possibly quite dangerous.

Stop now before you hurt yourself.

thorn


My thought too.

Adding something to your bullet will increase it's weight. Heavier bullet with same powder charge means higher pressure.

Stop looking for magic bullets and spend more time practicing your shooting and taking training classes. It will work much better in the end.

vafish
11-24-2009, 08:21
I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.

1. Your point is not to kill the other person. If you walk into a court room and say you were trying to kill him you just admitted to murder. The point of using a gun to defend yourself is to stop an attack upon your person. You only shoot to stop the attack, once the attack has stopped you stop shooting.

2. Prosecutors are lawyers. Ask a lawyer what 2+2 equals and they will ask you what you want it to equal, then create the argument to support what you want. If the prosecutor is so inclined they will most definitely twist around your modification of the bullets to be seen in the worst possible way. Remember anything you say and DO can and WILL be used against you in court.

thorn137
11-24-2009, 11:17
Why? It hardens to near rigid. It's not going to melt in the barrel.

You said this earlier:

"In fact, once the bullet has been fired the extreme heat will liquify the rubber making it more dynamic on impact."

I'm confused as to how it's going to liquify after it's been fired, but not melt in the barrel.

thorn

Glockdude1
11-24-2009, 11:24
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/ammo/corbon/powrball_lg.jpg
http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=15811

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item/2031_Corbon_Ammunition_COR_PB09100_20___9MM+P_10.aspx

$28.99 a box.

:cool:

greyeyezz
11-24-2009, 18:32
Copperhead BBs, 4$ a bottle.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2077741&CAWELAID=109904246

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/P1020769a.jpg

Glockdude1
11-24-2009, 19:11
Copperhead BBs, 4$ a bottle.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2077741&CAWELAID=109904246

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/P1020769a.jpg

The new Speer "Copper Dot" rd. You'll be rich.

:supergrin:

H&K 4 LIFE
11-24-2009, 19:19
If you are not confident that your self-defense round of choice will expand properly the answer is simple... switch to a different round. Using "modified" ammo for self-defense seems like asking for trouble should you have to use it.

In addition, Hornady also uses different polymer tips according to the different loads. It's a little more complicated then filling the cavity with some rubber.

Randy from Kansas
11-24-2009, 19:21
I suggest you go ahead and give it a try. I for one would like to see how it preforms in gelatin.

Hope you also find the time to keep us updated with your findings

SRTMO
11-24-2009, 19:24
I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.



The point is to incapacitate. Not kill.

BadAndy
11-24-2009, 21:02
The point is to incapacitate. Not kill.

Use a stun gun then.

shotgunred
11-25-2009, 01:34
I have tried silicone and that just turns the bullet into a FMJ. No expansion at all.

RichardB
11-25-2009, 08:59
Lots of theories here about how your specific idea might work or fail.

I'm with Randy, but I personally would not want to be the tester or provide the test guns.

Good luck with your experiment. Keep us posted.

Remember to wear eyes and ears.

drcoffee
11-25-2009, 09:13
The point is to incapacitate. Not kill.

For LEOs you are correct. Civilians are not held to the same standard. The attack is over when the BG can no longer breath or I've run out of bullets. So long as he is vertical and facing me, he's asking for another round.

I'm glad you can have empathy for the person willing to kill you for $10 and a few credit cards, rape and dismember your wife and children and dump their bodies in the woods to never be found. Me, I'm not so forgiving. I'm not looking to ever raise my gun at anyone or to put myself in danger. But if I have to, I will finish the job. I just need to know that the ammuntion I use, will work as designed.

I agree that for self defense ammo, finding the best factory load is wise. I'm just interested if there is a cost effective alternative should these no longer be available.

drcoffee
11-25-2009, 09:15
I have tried silicone and that just turns the bullet into a FMJ. No expansion at all.

Silicone will harden. I can see that. Mold rubber stays very flexible. Much like the polymer tips used in lever action ammo.

drcoffee
11-25-2009, 09:23
They call that Ball ammo :rofl: seriously, that is FMJ only at twice the price. You need somethng with hydrodynamic properties. It needs to displace outward on impact, forcing the bullet to expand the same as it does when it impacts flesh. The problem occurs when the cavity is plugged with fabric preventing the flesh from entering the cavity. The right polymer will stay put but deform in a fluidic manor when squished.

Copperhead BBs, 4$ a bottle.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2077741&CAWELAID=109904246

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/P1020769a.jpg

drcoffee
11-25-2009, 09:30
:fred: Everyone needs to watch these videos. Don't talk to the police, ever! They are not your friend. They are building a case.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912&ei=&hl=en

1. Your point is not to kill the other person. If you walk into a court room and say you were trying to kill him you just admitted to murder. The point of using a gun to defend yourself is to stop an attack upon your person. You only shoot to stop the attack, once the attack has stopped you stop shooting.

2. Prosecutors are lawyers. Ask a lawyer what 2+2 equals and they will ask you what you want it to equal, then create the argument to support what you want. If the prosecutor is so inclined they will most definitely twist around your modification of the bullets to be seen in the worst possible way. Remember anything you say and DO can and WILL be used against you in court.

Jim Watson
11-25-2009, 09:39
I don't see any risk to testing a homemade rubbernose bullet. The weight of a small glob of rubber is not going to raise pressures, a lot of cheap bullets have more variation in weight than that. The rubber is not going to jump out of the nose when the bullet is hit by 30,000 psi from the back end. Etc.

I just wonder if you are planning to get in so many gunfights that the cost of bullets matters. Maybe you could cough up the price of a box of the factory product for comparison.

drcoffee
11-25-2009, 09:43
I just wonder if you are planning to get in so many gunfights that the cost of bullets matters.

No. hopefully none. But if it works, the cost of practicing would be far less than $1 per round. Plus you can use them with confidence.

coverdog
11-25-2009, 10:53
I"ll have to go with "too much time on my hands".

DScottHewitt
11-25-2009, 17:11
Yep.

You're about to do something that at minimum is rather pointless, and on the other end of the scale possibly quite dangerous.

Stop now before you hurt yourself.

thorn

+87


For the love of God put the jar of rubber away.

DScottHewitt
11-25-2009, 17:12
I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.

If you think a crusading anti-gun prosecutor will NOT latch onto ANYTHING he/she can in order to turn you into the villain, put the rubber stuff away and do some research.

DScottHewitt
11-25-2009, 17:13
Okay, I'm tired of looking for Hornady's Critcal Defense for a reasonable price. Here's a thought. I've done some prototyping using a mold making 2-part silicone rubber called OOMOO 25. Once it hardens, it is very flexible yet dense/firm. It is poured and does not retain air bubbles. What I'm going to try is to fill the HP cavity in my Federal Hydra shok self defense loads with this rubber. I'll need to make some gelatin to test fire it and see if the clothed expansion is better or worse.

From looking at the bullet, there is a spike in the center of the hp. This should help force the rubber outward making the bullet expand. Since the tip is filled, it can't get clogged. The hydrodynamics of the rubber will help with reliable expansion. At least that's my hypothesis.

The OOMOO 25 costs $25 per quart. That should go along way for a lot less. Since it is poured into the cavity, the fit will be perfect. And rubber won't be affected by ambient temperature. In fact, once the bullet has been fired the extreme heat will liquify the rubber making it more dynamic on impact. The weight will be negligible

Any thoughts?


.http://www.fatwallet.com/attachments/15566_federalhydra_shok_380acp.jpghttp://cdn.dickblick.com/items/335/62/33562-6040-2ww-m.jpg

The jar says "OOMOO 30"

DScottHewitt
11-25-2009, 17:17
I suggest you go ahead and give it a try. I for one would like to see how it preforms in gelatin.

Hope you also find the time to keep us updated with your findings

Or have your executor update us......

DScottHewitt
11-25-2009, 17:21
For LEOs you are correct. Civilians are not held to the same standard. The attack is over when the BG can no longer breath or I've run out of bullets. So long as he is vertical and facing me, he's asking for another round.

I'm glad you can have empathy for the person willing to kill you for $10 and a few credit cards, rape and dismember your wife and children and dump their bodies in the woods to never be found. Me, I'm not so forgiving. I'm not looking to ever raise my gun at anyone or to put myself in danger. But if I have to, I will finish the job. I just need to know that the ammuntion I use, will work as designed.

I agree that for self defense ammo, finding the best factory load is wise. I'm just interested if there is a cost effective alternative should these no longer be available.

Actually, you are not only wrong, you are bordering on posting premeditation now. The ONLY reason to fire at someone in a self-defense situation is to INCAPACITATE them. You are shooting to STOP an attacker. NOT to KILL them. I can't believe your posts weren't reported before now.


Scott

NEOH212
11-27-2009, 00:16
:upeyes: :upeyes: :upeyes:

FM12
11-29-2009, 09:29
I say go for it. In my younger days,I'd have already tried it after reading your ideas.

AND...you can shoot them til they're down,but you cant shoot them til they're dead.

drcoffee
11-29-2009, 10:40
I say go for it. In my younger days,I'd have already tried it after reading your ideas.

AND...you can shoot them til they're down,but you cant shoot them til they're dead.

I agree 100%. Like I said. So long as they are vertical, they are asking for another. That is what is taught in self defense courses. So long as the threat is capable of inflicting harm, you must not stop. There's no premeditation involved. There's no finishing the job once the BG is down. Please don't twist my words.

drcoffee
11-29-2009, 11:05
Actually, you are not only wrong, you are bordering on posting premeditation now. The ONLY reason to fire at someone in a self-defense situation is to INCAPACITATE them. You are shooting to STOP an attacker. NOT to KILL them. I can't believe your posts weren't reported before now.


Scott

Hi Scott, Incapacitate? Really? Maybe I'll just shoot his tirgger finger off before he shoots me. Maybe I can nick his knee cap so he can't run so fast. What if he is hopped-up drugs? Do you know if he is or isn't? How much time will you have when the attack starts? Most events are over in 30 seconds. accuracy will be poor. the rounds fired will be sufficient. I'm glad to see that you'll be so clear of mind to know just how to shoot someone in the center of mass with a hollow point round and not risk a deadly outcome. Have you forgotten the adrenaline rush and the red fog you'll be in? Ask yourself this, why do cops wait 24hrs before they are debrieffed? It takes that long for a "Trained" LEO to stabilize his system so that an accurate account of the situation can be recorded. You've been watching too many movies. Nothing ever goes as planned in a gunfight. It is what it is and will end badly for everyone involved, living and dead. In the end, the jury will decide who was the victim. My response will simply be he attacked me, I shot in self defense because I was so scared and please send an ambulance(which is more that what he would have done for me).

This was a simple discussion on duplicating Hornady ammo and has turned into a legal "what if" session. Please constrain your views to the topic.

mitchshrader
11-29-2009, 13:35
i've had impulses to fool around with ammo seeking low rent performance improvements.

the energy is better spent hunting affordable, reliable, conventional factory ammo.

and telling folks about it in detail makes 'em nervous and'll get you talked about. Prolly about like having teen-age girlfriends, it's a bit more acceptable in yute than in adulthood..jmho, no offense intended.

nastytrigger
11-29-2009, 17:26
Try it and take lots of pictures. If you can make your own, I'll take a couple boxes when you get up and running if you go to market!

DScottHewitt
12-02-2009, 01:34
Hi Scott, Incapacitate? Really? Maybe I'll just shoot his tirgger finger off before he shoots me. Maybe I can nick his knee cap so he can't run so fast. What if he is hopped-up drugs? Do you know if he is or isn't? How much time will you have when the attack starts? Most events are over in 30 seconds. accuracy will be poor. the rounds fired will be sufficient. I'm glad to see that you'll be so clear of mind to know just how to shoot someone in the center of mass with a hollow point round and not risk a deadly outcome. Have you forgotten the adrenaline rush and the red fog you'll be in? Ask yourself this, why do cops wait 24hrs before they are debrieffed? It takes that long for a "Trained" LEO to stabilize his system so that an accurate account of the situation can be recorded. You've been watching too many movies. Nothing ever goes as planned in a gunfight. It is what it is and will end badly for everyone involved, living and dead. In the end, the jury will decide who was the victim. My response will simply be he attacked me, I shot in self defense because I was so scared and please send an ambulance(which is more that what he would have done for me).

This was a simple discussion on duplicating Hornady ammo and has turned into a legal "what if" session. Please constrain your views to the topic.

No.



..

Drew78
12-02-2009, 06:12
couldnt the rubber in the tip "de-stabilize" the round in flight if the insert was not perfectly filled thereby messing up the accuracy?

drcoffee
12-02-2009, 07:37
couldnt the rubber in the tip "de-stabilize" the round in flight if the insert was not perfectly filled thereby messing up the accuracy?

As my friend Scott says "No" :tongueout:

The cavity is perfectly round and centered. The rubber flows like water and so long as the bullet is standing on a level surface it will fill the cavity uniformly. Keeping in mind that the projectile only needs to fly 7 to 10 yds (for all you legal eagles) or 25 yards for us who can't judge distance well in a dark alley when no one is looking. :whistling: The flight of the bullet will be straight, based on mass and velocity. Any wobble would be exaggerted out beyond 20 yards. I don't think I would notice though when shot from a 3" barrel. I'm not that good to blame the bullet over my shakey hand.

bfg1971
12-02-2009, 17:32
I would have to say that every modern bullet probably started with someone saying what do you think would happen if we did X? Now unless I was attacked while testing the bullet I wouldn't carry it for self defense until I had documentation that my idea worked. At that point I would probably look to market the idea.

I say give it a try and see what happens.

Texas357
12-02-2009, 18:30
I suspect that adding such a tip is more beneficial if you have optimized the cavity to take advantage of a soft tip.

sigcalcatrant
12-02-2009, 19:47
I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.:rofl::rofl::rofl: You're VERY naive.

RichardB
12-03-2009, 06:03
:rofl::rofl::rofl: You're VERY naive.

Metro Chicago is a very diverse area with many points of view for everything. Why don't you ask your local prosecutor what his philosophy is? What do the local police carry?

Texas357
12-03-2009, 12:27
Just tell the prosecutor you though it would make the bullets less lethal, because the rubber would help it bounce off.

drcoffee
01-28-2010, 06:23
So I went to the art store and bought me some goo ("Sen. John Kerry" lingo). A syringe and a tooth pick were the tools of choice. 8 bullet heads of each have been filled with a rubber plug. The Oomoo flows nicely and a tooth pick helps rid the air bubbles and fill just to the HP opening. Whats interesting is the Federal Premium hydroshocks have a spire point in the center of the cavity. That will make a deciding factor in the bullet expansion. So long as the cavity does not clog, the spire point will push through the rubber and force it outwards, forcing the bullet to expand.

The problem: Dense clothing such as denim or leather will clog the cavity of a HP bullet-head on impact, thus creating a "ball" type ammo projectile. The stopping potential is thus minimized allowing the energy to carry the bullet through the BG with minimal damaging effect. Ideally a bullet should expand 100% on impact.

The Theory: By pre-filing the HP cavity with a flesh like component such as a semi-rigid rubber, the expansion of the HP is guarranteed in every case no matter what clothing a BG may be wearing.

The hypothesis: What I propose is that the rubber will have hydro-dynamic properties and once compressed by anything it encounters on impact, it will have to displace in the direction of least resistance. In the case of a HP bullet, outwards against the interior walls of the hollow point tip. A "burst" effect of the HP will create a dynamic expansion and a resulting cavernous wound cavity in the gelatin.

If you notice, the last picture has a Hornady Critical Defense 40s&w in there for comparison. Anyway, here's the finished product and now I need jello. Honey, will anyone ever use that yellow jello in the pantry? :rofl:


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96c032bc6db00000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96dfd12e6d100000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96c56e6079400000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

drcoffee
01-28-2010, 07:22
i've had impulses to fool around with ammo seeking low rent performance improvements.

the energy is better spent hunting affordable, reliable, conventional factory ammo.

and telling folks about it in detail makes 'em nervous and'll get you talked about. Prolly about like having teen-age girlfriends, it's a bit more acceptable in yute than in adulthood..jmho, no offense intended.

How's your girlfriend doing by the way. :aod: you dog you. 18 and above I hope.

Iceman cHucK
01-28-2010, 07:33
I had the same idea using simple silicone RTV but just never tried it. I agree with your theory. Now let us know the results

drcoffee
01-28-2010, 07:40
I tweezed out 2 of the plugs and weighed them. The weight is insignificant (see below). You can see that the cavity was fully filled. The next time I fill them, I will swab out the cavity with brake cleaner.



Winchester on the Left weighs in at 0.80 grain (or 0.05 gram) effectively making the bullet 165.8 grains
Federal on the Right weighs in at 1.00 grain (or 0.06 gram) effectively making the bullet 91 grains
Hornady far Left bottom weighs in at 0.90 grain, so what's intersting is the size is slightly bigger but the weight is less. The density must be lower but the durometer is greater. This will be an interesting test.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96c1c1c867b00000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96dd2b227ce00000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
comparison to the Hornady plug. Roughly speaking the red Hornady rubber is just slightly more dense.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df09b3127ccef96d4847277600000030O08AZM2zNo3cNQe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

dosei
01-28-2010, 08:22
Using anything other than unmodified factory ammo for SD is a legal nightmare waiting to happen. Just go get some Federal EFMJ's (Expanding Full Metal Jacket) or Corbon Pow'RBall's.

If this was for hunting or strictly recreational use, then do whatever you want. But for SD, it is not wise.

FlyBoy007
01-28-2010, 09:17
Interesting concept, please continue with the ballistic tests.

For the rest of you bunch of worrying old lady's...STFU he's testing stuff here not going on a shooting rampage, heck when I was a kid I filled old fire extinguishers with ffff black powder and blew stuff up, like old refrigerators. It's what real males do, how do you think Napalm was invented.

You'll sound like a real fun crowd to hang around, all safety patrol like.

The trouble with folks nowadays is they grew up wearing helmets while riding bicycles.

drcoffee
01-28-2010, 09:41
The trouble with folks nowadays is they grew up wearing helmets while riding bicycles.

LMAO :rofl: So true!

mclaren
01-28-2010, 17:00
Interesting concept, please continue with the ballistic tests.

For the rest of you bunch of worrying old lady's...STFU he's testing stuff here not going on a shooting rampage, heck when I was a kid I filled old fire extinguishers with ffff black powder and blew stuff up, like old refrigerators. It's what real males do, how do you think Napalm was invented.

You'll sound like a real fun crowd to hang around, all safety patrol like.

The trouble with folks nowadays is they grew up wearing helmets while riding bicycles.



Amen! "You'll shoot your eye out" You should definitely be banned for suggesting modifying ammunition in the caliber corner forum. How dare you.
I filled some 45 Auto+P 230 grain Hornady TAP bullets with Import Grey RTV Silicon. I haven't done much with them. I shot one through a pair of wet jeans that I folded as many times as I could. Probably about 20 layers. It went through and about 4" into a log. I retrieved it and it looked just like I had shot it through jugs of water. Gold ole' XTPs work like a champ.
My thought was that filling the XTP would be pretty much the same as a Critical Defense. The CD is actually constructed pretty differently to work with the tip. So keep in mind that these hollow points you are filling were made to work hollow. The ones filled were made to work filled. Not trying to discourage, just saying that its taken into account in bullet construction.
I think the Hydra-Shok bullets are piss poor when it comes to clogging. Its like a pre-clogged hollow point IMO. When shot in bare gel the post is usually left standing which makes for lots of oohs and aahs. I would remove the post and fill it with goo. Then do side by side tests through denim.
Your ammo, your time, your money. Go for it. I love doing this type of thing. I wouldn't carry them for defense though, but its your choice.

CanyonMan
01-28-2010, 17:45
I'm not too concerned for two reasons: first, the badguy will be dead and won't be able to sue me. Second. I'm shooting someone in self-defense with a deadly weapon. If I'm shooting someone, the point is to kill them before they kill me.

Now I doubt a prosecuter will think a rubber plug will make the bullet anymore dangerous. I'm not changing the way the bullet was designed to open, just ensuring it does its job.



Any thoughts ? You ask !

Yep!

It is ridiculous. If you cannot find a JHP you like use ball ammo. Better than Jr. chemistry set.

Some advice. You don't need this to kill a man number one.

Number two if your ever on the stand, i would advise you not to mention killing. Your line is, 'hey, I was afraid for my life, I just wanted to stop the threat." I'd remember this if I were you.

Although in Texas, it don't make a rip about your gun your bullets. It matters if you were justified in the shoot. You will still be torn to shreads by the prosecutor.

Do what ya want hoss. But I would advise ya against the idea.




CanyonMan

bfoosh006
01-29-2010, 09:51
Copperhead BBs, 4$ a bottle.
http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2077741&CAWELAID=109904246

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/P1020769a.jpg

Do those expand ? Interesting...

drcoffee
01-29-2010, 10:53
Do those expand ? Interesting...

I would have to think that would just be ball ammo. The reason the Hornady CD works is the hydrodynamic effect of the compressing rubber pushing outward. The BB will just occupy the space the bullet need to fill with fluid. IMO

Brucev
01-29-2010, 13:27
Hum... this looks like a good project. Someone who has a place where they can shoot water filled milk jugs w/ denim, ect., needs to test this idea. Hint... Hint... Wink... Wink! Brucev.