Whats the difference? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Whats the difference?


hurley842002
11-25-2009, 22:23
So I just got my Double Tap .357sig 125gr Bonded Defense (Gold Dots) ammo in the mail today, and the Gold Dots in the Double Tap is quite a bit different then the Gold Dots in my Speer ammo. The Double Taps have a deeper Cavity resembling the .40 and .45 Gold Dots I have, and the Speer's have a more shallow Cavity resembling 9mm Gold Dots i've had in the past. Anyone know what the difference could be? Here is a pic, the Speer is on the left, with the Double Tap on the right

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GoldDotcomparison.jpg

RMTactical
11-25-2009, 22:36
The picture is pretty blurry, do you have a macro setting on your camera? I take it the DT is the one on the right (because of the brass casing, or lack of nickel plating I should say...)?

hurley842002
11-25-2009, 22:46
The picture is pretty blurry, do you have a macro setting on your camera? I take it the DT is the one on the right (because of the brass casing, or lack of nickel plating I should say...)?


Its a crappy camera phone pic. I thought it would be decent enough to tell the difference but it is a bit blurry, let me see if photobucket can make it any better.

carbofan21
11-25-2009, 22:57
looks like doubletap is using the 124 grain 9mm speer gold dot bullet in their 357 sig load.

hurley842002
11-25-2009, 23:17
looks like doubletap is using the 124 grain 9mm speer gold dot bullet in their 357 sig load.

If thats the case, then thats not ok. Last time I checked, .357 sig bullets were made to withstand .357 sig velocities and such. Here is another pic, still blurry but a different angle

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GDcomparison1.jpg

nndavec
11-25-2009, 23:31
+1, looking at the Speer GD 124+P and the 125 357 Sig Gold Dot that I have the double tap appears to be using the 9mm 124 GD.



looks like doubletap is using the 124 grain 9mm speer gold dot bullet in their 357 sig load.

hurley842002
11-25-2009, 23:40
+1, looking at the Speer GD 124+P and the 125 357 Sig Gold Dot that I have the double tap appears to be using the 9mm 124 GD.

Anybody forsee any problems with this? I'm going to do a half a#$ed Balistic test (milk jugs with soaked paper shreds) on the double taps tomorrow, so I will see if they hold up. I've got nothing but good things to say about Double Tap ammo, I really like their 230gr .45's, but i'm not sure if I like the fact that the 124 grain bullets are being used in the .357sig ammo.

RMTactical
11-25-2009, 23:44
I doubt that it will be much of an issue.

carbofan21
11-25-2009, 23:48
If thats the case, then thats not ok. Last time I checked, .357 sig bullets were made to withstand .357 sig velocities and such. Here is another pic, still blurry but a different angle

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GDcomparison1.jpg

bingo :whistling:

carbofan21
11-25-2009, 23:51
Anybody forsee any problems with this? I'm going to do a half a#$ed Balistic test (milk jugs with soaked paper shreds) on the double taps tomorrow, so I will see if they hold up. I've got nothing but good things to say about Double Tap ammo, I really like their 230gr .45's, but i'm not sure if I like the fact that the 124 grain bullets are being used in the .357sig ammo.

you'll likely see an increase in expansion and possibly some fragmentation, which could cause shallow penetration. speer developed the 125 grain load for 357 sig velocities for this very reason.

hurley842002
11-25-2009, 23:56
you'll likely see an increase in expansion and possibly some fragmentation, which could cause shallow penetration. speer developed the 125 grain load for 357 sig velocities for this very reason.

hmmm, should be interesting. I'll post a pic of the bullet tomorrow when I get back from shooting. Anybody else using this ammo and have the same 124 grain 9mm Gold Dots? Or did I just get a half arsed batch.

cat118
11-26-2009, 08:58
you'll likely see an increase in expansion and possibly some fragmentation, which could cause shallow penetration. speer developed the 125 grain load for 357 sig velocities for this very reason.

But Speer only loads their 125-gr .357 SIG to 1350 FPS vs the advertised full strength 1450 FPS by DT. Does the 124-gr 9mm +P+ loading reach 1450 FPS? Perhaps that's the thought behind the DT usage?

fredj338
11-26-2009, 09:48
I understand Speer makes two bullets for the 357sig, one for increased penetration one to limit penetration. I don't think you can even get the 124gr 9mm to run 100% in the 357sig. The sahoe is not the same. Pull a bullet & weigh it. The 375sig shoul dbe 125gr, the 9mm 124gr.

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 10:09
I understand Speer makes two bullets for the 357sig, one for increased penetration one to limit penetration. I don't think you can even get the 124gr 9mm to run 100% in the 357sig. The sahoe is not the same. Pull a bullet & weigh it. The 375sig shoul dbe 125gr, the 9mm 124gr.

Hopefully this is the case. I e-mailed Mike from Double Tap, and asked what he is using in the Sig loadings. Will share his response when I get it.

SIGShooter
11-26-2009, 10:26
The limited penetration 357 SIG load from Speer looks like the load from DT.

Of course, you need to pull the bullet and weigh it. That will tell you without any doubt what bullet they are using. If it's 124...it's 9MM, if it's 125...it's .357 SIG. Then you can go from there. Whether it is limited penetration or and old design.

If they are using anything else but the 357 SIG bullet...Send that crap back.

I have a friend who reloaded 9MM bullets for his 357 SIG. He had nothing but problems with them. They are designed differently because of the bottle neck case.

SIGShooter
11-26-2009, 10:33
Both are Limited Penetration .357 SIG. The one on the right is a 6 petal design which looks the same as the DT loading.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/hkpictures_2006/DSC02971.jpg

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 10:35
The limited penetration 357 SIG load from Speer looks like the load from DT.

This would make sense to me, because I've got .40 and .45 Gold Dots (the .45's from Double Tap), that are the same design as the bullet in question. I've also had Buffalo Bore 9mm+P's that were the design from Speer. Just by looking at them, it appears the Speer would penetrate further simply due to the shallow cavity. The deeper cavity of the DT Speer, seems like it would definitely expand more, therefore not penetrating quite as much. I'm looking forward to see how they perform, and for Mike's answer. Again, I really like DT ammo so I hope its the limited penetration .357sig.

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 10:37
Both are Limited Penetration .357 SIG. The one on the right is a 6 petal design which looks the same as the DT loading.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/hkpictures_2006/DSC02971.jpg

Thanks alot for the pics, that definitely makes me feel better the round.

SIGShooter
11-26-2009, 10:53
Thanks alot for the pics, that definitely makes me feel better the round.


Not trying to rain on your parade...

Why would you be happy getting a Limited Penetration round as opposed to what was actually advertised?

The limited penetration rounds are just that...Limited penetration. They were originally designed for the Air Marshall's program for use in planes.

With those style of rounds being pushed as fast as DT does...You will lack in penetration and even see fragmentation which will in turn limit the penetration more.

Just my opinion.

wingspar
11-26-2009, 11:31
hmmm, should be interesting. I'll post a pic of the bullet tomorrow when I get back from shooting. Anybody else using this ammo and have the same 124 grain 9mm Gold Dots? Or did I just get a half arsed batch.

Well, canít add any experience, as Iíve never used any of this ammo yet, but it was an excuse to get the camera out. May not be of any help in this thread, but I felt like doing it. These are 9mm Gold Dot 124 grain. Click on photos to see better resolution.

http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/119752009/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/119752011/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/119752007/original.jpg

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 12:00
Not trying to rain on your parade...

Why would you be happy getting a Limited Penetration round as opposed to what was actually advertised?

The limited penetration rounds are just that...Limited penetration. They were originally designed for the Air Marshall's program for use in planes.

With those style of rounds being pushed as fast as DT does...You will lack in penetration and even see fragmentation which will in turn limit the penetration more.

Just my opinion.

I know your not, I appreciate your opinion. However this seems to be the same design bullet that Cor-Bon is using as well. Now that I think of it, my friend uses this same 6 petal design in .40 for his duty ammo, because just the other day he mentioned the difference in bullet. Seems as though several companies and agencies have the 6 petal configuration. Here is a pic of my Cor-Bon with GD bullet, agian sorry for the blurry pic.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/40GDjpg.jpg

SIGShooter
11-26-2009, 16:25
IIRC...The 5 petal is from the 20 round "Personal Protection" boxes and the 6 petal is from the 50 round "LEO" ammunition.

Of course, the 20 round Personal Protection boxes of 45 ACP that I shot had 7 petals.

It may just be a newer or older design in bullets.

SIGShooter
11-26-2009, 16:26
I know your not, I appreciate your opinion. However this seems to be the same design bullet that Cor-Bon is using as well. Now that I think of it, my friend uses this same 6 petal design in .40 for his duty ammo, because just the other day he mentioned the difference in bullet. Seems as though several companies and agencies have the 6 petal configuration. Here is a pic of my Cor-Bon with GD bullet, agian sorry for the blurry pic.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/40GDjpg.jpg


Is that a new or old Cor-Bon loading?

Police Marksman
11-26-2009, 18:35
I have purchased some 357 Sig Double Tap 115 gr. Bonded, with a velocity of over 1,500 fps. This bullet was definitely designed for the 9mm. I shot several rounds it in some water, and the bullets shredded into several pieces.

Be careful with some of the custom ammo you buy! :wow:

Matthew Courtney
11-26-2009, 18:52
Lots of ammo makers that get bullets from other sources instead of manufacturing them in house are using bullets from a variety of sources, so one batch of 125 grain .357 Sig might be using bullets made in 2009, while the next lot could be bullets made in 2006. The gold dot is a great design. Some are engineered to open up more easily, but I have seen quite a few pushed pretty far past their design specs with very little fragmentation. What usually happens is that the petals get pushed a little farther back, resulting in about the same penetration and a smaller recovered diameter. They will fragment a little, but the copper plated jacket holds the projectile together better than anything except for the all copper hollow points by Barnes and Magtech.

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 19:12
Is that a new or old Cor-Bon loading?

Not sure exactly when the rounds were manufactured, however I purchased them at the begining of this month.

Just got back from shooting today, shot my makeshift ballistic setup with the DT round, will post a pic as soon as I recover the Bullet from the jug.

GIockGuy24
11-26-2009, 19:36
I've bought Gold Dot ammo in 357 Sig and I've bought Gold Dot bullets for 357 Sig for handloading and I've seen at least two different designs of bullets in both the ammo and the loose bullet boxes. I've bought all of it before there was any "Personal Protection" ammunition. At the time I bought the different looking bullets I was told that they were the newer design. The design may have changed a few times since I've bought any though as it's been a few years, but they were the 125 grain made for 357 Sig bullets, not the 124 grain 9mm bullets.

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 21:47
Ok, here is the aftermath. On the left is the .357sig 125gr Double Tap bonded defense (6 petal configuration). On the right is a .45acp 230gr Double Tap bonded defense (7 petal configuration). I've only included the .45 for comparison. The .357 was shot through the jugs below, which consisted of paper from a paper shredder, soaked in water. The .45 was shot through jugs with just water (some time ago). While I wish I could say the .357 had so much energy that it blew the top off of the back jug, thats only from me cutting it off, to retrieve the bullet.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GD3.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GD1.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GD2.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/GD4.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/Jug2.jpg

hurley842002
11-26-2009, 21:51
It looks as though the velocity of the Double Tap, may have caused slight overexpansion, but no fragmenting. As long as the energy transfer is there, I think this should make a pretty nasty round. I loaded ten rounds into a magazine, 5 of the Double Tap and 5 Speer Lawman FMJ, alternating rounds, and I could hardly tell a difference in recoil. Bottom line, very managable round, with decent end result. Let me know what you guys think.

SIGShooter
11-27-2009, 19:19
Maybe, just maybe a slight bit of over expansion.

I tested some Winchester Ranger 125 Gr. .357 SIG a while back. They also had a bit of slight over expansion. Nothing major.

In regards to the .45 ACP from DT...It looks as though that particular bullet is being pushed a little too hard.

Just my opinion though.

I still say pull the bullet on the .357 SIG and weigh it.

Good test!

Thanks for sharing!

hurley842002
11-27-2009, 20:28
Maybe, just maybe a slight bit of over expansion.

I tested some Winchester Ranger 125 Gr. .357 SIG a while back. They also had a bit of slight over expansion. Nothing major.

In regards to the .45 ACP from DT...It looks as though that particular bullet is being pushed a little too hard.

Just my opinion though.

I still say pull the bullet on the .357 SIG and weigh it.

Good test!

Thanks for sharing!

I'd like to get my hands on some 357sig Ranger T ammo, Rangers are nasty little rounds, thats what I carry in my M&P40c. Here are a few pics of the test I did with those:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/Ranger3.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/Ranger2.jpg

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh297/hurley842002/Ranger1.jpg

hurley842002
11-27-2009, 20:30
Any Idea what the Velocity on the Rangers in 357sig is?

cat118
11-28-2009, 08:01
Winchester, like Speer, dilute the .357SIG round down to 1350 FPS but from the reviews I've read they seem to achieve what they advertise.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series (http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/default.aspx)

The Ranger T-series is getting harder and harder to find now that ATK wants it restricted to Law Enforcement. It can still be found, you just have to hunt for it.

http://www.okammocenter.com (http://www.okammocenter.com//index.php?cPath=1_55)

Matthew Courtney
11-28-2009, 15:26
Winchester, like Speer, dilute the .357SIG round down to 1350 FPS but from the reviews I've read they seem to achieve what they advertise.

http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series (http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/default.aspx)

The Ranger T-series is getting harder and harder to find now that ATK wants it restricted to Law Enforcement. It can still be found, you just have to hunt for it.

http://www.okammocenter.com (http://www.okammocenter.com//index.php?cPath=1_55)

The timing of the Ranger T restriction coincided with complaints from many agencies that ammunition was too hard to find. That makes me think that once ammo companies get caught up with both regular citizen and law-enforcement ammo orders that LEO "restricted" ammo will begin to flow to civilian dealers again.

I am guessing that ammo makers will get caught up in the late Spring or early Summer next year. I really hope so. Once ammo is generally readily available again, we will be able to reduce our ammo inventory from a 1 year supply to a 6 month supply, and that will free up a considerable amount of cash flow for development of our new training facility.

fredj338
11-28-2009, 16:27
Any Idea what the Velocity on the Rangers in 357sig is?
From my P239, they make 1320fps, very accurate, under 1 1/2" for 5 @ 15yds offhand. Expands to 0.675" in wetpack tests.

Kentucky_Guy
11-28-2009, 18:10
hurley....

i ordered some Buffalo Bore 125 grain 357 Sig last week and they look exactly the same as the Double Tap gold dot......

how much penetration did the Double Tap get??? and looks like a great round to me, full-expansion and no fragmentation....i expect the Buffalo Bore i carry to do the same since it is loaded to 1425 fps

edit: here is ya' some Ranger Sig ammo:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-357-sig-winchester-ranger-talon-125gr-hp-ammo/cName/357-sig-hollow-point-ammo

hurley842002
11-28-2009, 22:30
hurley....

i ordered some Buffalo Bore 125 grain 357 Sig last week and they look exactly the same as the Double Tap gold dot......

how much penetration did the Double Tap get??? and looks like a great round to me, full-expansion and no fragmentation....i expect the Buffalo Bore i carry to do the same since it is loaded to 1425 fps

edit: here is ya' some Ranger Sig ammo:

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-357-sig-winchester-ranger-talon-125gr-hp-ammo/cName/357-sig-hollow-point-ammo

The bullet made it through the first two milk jugs, and stopped midway in the third jug, measuring about 15 inches through the wetpack. Thanks for the link, may just have to order some Rangers and test those as well.

Also wanted to throw out a small disclaimer. While testing the different rounds can tell us quite a bit about the ammo, and what it could possibly do in real life, there is NO substitute for practice and shot placement. I think some people get caught up in the Velocities and Nasty factor of bullets (myself included), and don't realize that neither of those things mean squat, if you don't hit your target. With that said, I have a blast testing out these different rounds (even if its just generic soggy paper in jugs), and plan to do several more, hopefully with real ballistics gelatin and chronograph down the road.

Kentucky_Guy
11-29-2009, 09:18
i am going to order some DoubleTap 357/125 grain and see how they do in my Glock 32.....

hurley842002
11-29-2009, 09:50
i am going to order some DoubleTap 357/125 grain and see how they do in my Glock 32.....

Good choice! IMO for the price, they can't be beat. 50rnds for just under $40, can't beat it. I like to buy two boxes from DT, fire the first one and carry the second (though firing more rounds of your carry ammo is prefered if you can afford it).

Kentucky_Guy
11-29-2009, 09:58
Good choice! IMO for the price, they can't be beat. 50rnds for just under $40, can't beat it. I like to buy two boxes from DT, fire the first one and carry the second (though firing more rounds of your carry ammo is prefered if you can afford it).

yeah, think im gonna order one box of JHP and one of FMJ....your test and pictures just convinced me to try some

SIGShooter
11-29-2009, 13:47
Any Idea what the Velocity on the Rangers in 357sig is?


That is about the same results that I got when I did my testing.

I did have a little more expansion than what is showed in the pictures above.

Last time I chrono'd the Ranger 357 SIG I got an average of 1425 FPS.

All rounds shot from a G32.

I do not remember any of the other data as it was a couple years back.

hurley842002
11-29-2009, 14:58
That is about the same results that I got when I did my testing.

I did have a little more expansion than what is showed in the pictures above.

Last time I chrono'd the Ranger 357 SIG I got an average of 1425 FPS.

All rounds shot from a G32.

I do not remember any of the other data as it was a couple years back.

I'm convinced just about any 357sig is going to expand just a bit more than the same type of bullet in another caliber (i.e. Ranger .40 and Ranger 357sig), but that is fairly obvious. I would like to test a 6 petal Gold Dot in the Speer loading, which is about 100fps slower than the Double Tap, and see how much those expand.

SIGShooter
11-29-2009, 17:43
I can tell you that the GD I tested in .357 SIG had some really amazing results.

G31 Average was 1475 FPS
G32 Average was 1450 FPS
G33 Average was 1360 FPS

Those are just off the top of my head. The expansion results I don't remember right now. I won't be able to find out until I get home. I will say this...

Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points are one of the most consistent loads I have ever shot in .357 SIG. It's one of the only manufacturers that I didn't get setback with.




I'm convinced just about any 357sig is going to expand just a bit more than the same type of bullet in another caliber (i.e. Ranger .40 and Ranger 357sig), but that is fairly obvious. I would like to test a 6 petal Gold Dot in the Speer loading, which is about 100fps slower than the Double Tap, and see how much those expand.

Kentucky_Guy
11-29-2009, 17:48
I can tell you that the GD I tested in .357 SIG had some really amazing results.

G31 Average was 1475 FPS
G32 Average was 1450 FPS
G33 Average was 1360 FPS

Those are just off the top of my head. The expansion results I don't remember right now. I won't be able to find out until I get home. I will say this...

Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points are one of the most consistent loads I have ever shot in .357 SIG. It's one of the only manufacturers that I didn't get setback with.

are those speer "factory" rounds???? i thought the factory stuff had velocities in the 1350 range????

SIGShooter
11-29-2009, 18:08
are those speer "factory" rounds???? i thought the factory stuff had velocities in the 1350 range????


That is indeed Speer factory ammunition bought in 50 round LEO boxes from Northern Security in Anchorage Alaska where I did the testing (2003-2005).

The Lawman also has the same velocity figures as the GD ammo.

On a side note...Not a scientific test at all...

There was an AK Trooper that was at the range with his son. His son was doing a book report on the differences between bullet resistant and bullet proof vests.

Anyway, the trooped had a vest (IIRC IIIA) and a 5 gallon paint bucket filled with sand.

The trooper asked what I was shooting. I told him...G31 .357 SIG and a P229 .357 SIG.

The gentleman asked if I would mind shooting the vest with my SD loads and the FMJ loads. I obliged him.

The GDHP defeated 3 layers of kevlar while the Lawman TMJ penetrated 4.

I wish I could remember the name of the vest manufacturer. It's on the tip of my tongue...It's a name that is unique...Anyway, the trooper was using a G21 with IIRC 230 Gr. GDHP. He was able to get the .45 into the first layer of kevlar and that was it.

A cool thing...The .357 SIG busted the bucket on the first shot. Cracked it right down the middle.

rns-glock37
11-29-2009, 22:13
That is indeed Speer factory ammunition bought in 50 round LEO boxes from Northern Security in Anchorage Alaska where I did the testing (2003-2005).

The Lawman also has the same velocity figures as the GD ammo.

On a side note...Not a scientific test at all...

There was an AK Trooper that was at the range with his son. His son was doing a book report on the differences between bullet resistant and bullet proof vests.

Anyway, the trooped had a vest (IIRC IIIA) and a 5 gallon paint bucket filled with sand.

The trooper asked what I was shooting. I told him...G31 .357 SIG and a P229 .357 SIG.

The gentleman asked if I would mind shooting the vest with my SD loads and the FMJ loads. I obliged him.

The GDHP defeated 3 layers of kevlar while the Lawman TMJ penetrated 4.

I wish I could remember the name of the vest manufacturer. It's on the tip of my tongue...It's a name that is unique...Anyway, the trooper was using a G21 with IIRC 230 Gr. GDHP. He was able to get the .45 into the first layer of kevlar and that was it.

A cool thing...The .357 SIG busted the bucket on the first shot. Cracked it right down the middle.

this is impressive indeed; however, i must ask are any of you who carry the 357sig concerned about over penetration? i'm seriously thinking of making my next glock by the g32. if the 357sig is going through 3 layers of kevlar plus destroying a bucket what will be the effect when hitting flesh?

SIGShooter
11-30-2009, 05:09
this is impressive indeed; however, i must ask are any of you who carry the 357sig concerned about over penetration? i'm seriously thinking of making my next glock by the g32. if the 357sig is going through 3 layers of kevlar plus destroying a bucket what will be the effect when hitting flesh?


I have no concerns with over penetration with any caliber that I carry.

My main goal...I want spinal chord when my shots hit the target.

Expansion is the last thing I look at in my ammunition choice. Function, accuracy, penetration...One of the reasons I am content on carrying ball ammo for my SD loads.

The .357 SIG is the only round that penetrated that much kevlar. The trooper was also using 40,9 and 45. None of them came close. But, like I said, it isn't scientific.

If you are concerned about OP...I would recommend a pre-fragmented round. I would also recommend a lighter round...100-115 grains. Cor-Bon makes an outstanding loading in both these weights. The Pow'R Ball (100 Gr.) and the standard JHP (115 Gr.). The Pow'R Ball, when shooting, IMHO, has absolutely no recoil. The standard JHP load has about as much recoil as a 32. Both do great.

I would stay away from the Hornady loads. The XTP was designed to get deep and get deep fast. Not saying they don't make a stellar round...If you're concerned about OP...I would stay away from the Hornady.

You guys are killing me right now!!!

About 2 years ago I had to get rid of the .357 SIG. I was going through the worst part of my disabilities for the longest time (2 Years worth). Shooting the .357 just plain old hurt. Even a 22 was putting a beating on me. I had to stop shooting for a few months.

After this thread and a couple others...I cannot wait to get back into the .357 SIG again. Therapy helps...But I think it's the mindset in the end. I have a P229 on order now. I am looking for a P239 as well.

Keep your powder dry!

DowntimeLA
11-30-2009, 08:30
I can tell you that the GD I tested in .357 SIG had some really amazing results.

G31 Average was 1475 FPS
G32 Average was 1450 FPS
G33 Average was 1360 FPS

Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points are one of the most consistent loads I have ever shot in .357 SIG. It's one of the only manufacturers that I didn't get setback with.



Last time I chrono'd the Ranger 357 SIG I got an average of 1425 FPS.

that's impressive. the ranger t's feel hotter to me than the speer gold dots, little more flash i think.



I'm convinced just about any 357sig is going to expand just a bit more than the same type of bullet in another caliber (i.e. Ranger .40 and Ranger 357sig), but that is fairly obvious. I would like to test a 6 petal Gold Dot in the Speer loading, which is about 100fps slower than the Double Tap, and see how much those expand.

PM me your address and i'll send you a few rounds of ranger t and gold dot 4234's in .357

gatorboy
11-30-2009, 22:53
Hopefully this is the case. I e-mailed Mike from Double Tap, and asked what he is using in the Sig loadings. Will share his response when I get it.

Don't hold your breath buddy. I ordered a case (1,000 rds.) six months ago and after five phone calls and three e-mails I'm still waiting for a response as to why I spent all that money and did'nt receive what I was promised I was buying. Never again.

hurley842002
12-01-2009, 08:22
Don't hold your breath buddy. I ordered a case (1,000 rds.) six months ago and after five phone calls and three e-mails I'm still waiting for a response as to why I spent all that money and did'nt receive what I was promised I was buying. Never again.

Well i've e-mailed him in the past, with a somewhat prompt response, and i've always received my orders fairly quickly (with the .45 being the slowest to ship). Its been over a week since i've e-mailed him, with no response, so i'm done holding my breath this time around. That doesn't mean I will not continue to order from him. Sorry to hear about your poor experience.

dougader
12-01-2009, 23:36
FWIW, I've loaded the Speer GDHP 9mm (124 grain) bullet to 1439 and 1523 fps in 9x23 Winchester and when fired into gallon water jugs they blew through 3 jugs, stopped inside the 4th jug, expanded to .736" and retained 118.1 grains - or 95% - weight. That was several years ago, but I never saw any reason to load the 357 Sig (125 grain) bullet. Those Gold Dots hold together really well.

For comparison, Hornady XTP's do well up to 1450 fps, but when you get into 1500 fps territory they completely fall apart.

I would load the 357 Sig GD bullet only if I was trying to defeat car doors and such.

fsqridah
01-10-2010, 20:50
Something to keep in mind about the .357 SIG being a "penetrator" is that it penetrates hard barriers more effectively than 9/40/45, but doesn't necessarily penetrate ballistic gel or human flesh much more than 9/40/45.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/darkwolfstudios/10mm-1.jpg

Please note that this is not about the 10mm, even though it rocks.

I could bring out some numbers involving kinetic energy and momentum, but for now, just consider that the .357 SIG is a high energy load. However, the bullets don't necessarily have much more momentum than larger, heavier bullets. For hard barrier penetration, sectional density and kinetic energy determine how well they "punch" through stuff like metal, wood, and glass. Momentum is what allows a bullet to retain energy and velocity downrange as well as once it has penetrated a viscous medium, like gel or flesh. So a high energy/high sectionally dense bullet will penetrate barriers more effectively than a high momentum bullet with lower energy/SD, but the 2nd bullet could penetrate a human body more deeply.

Bullet construction can play a fairly big part, but the .357 SIG doesn't overpenetrate everything it hits. You basically get the gun size of a 9mm, the barrier penetration of a 10mm (almost), and the takedown power of a .40S&W. Pretty good package if you ask me.