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havensal
12-09-2009, 12:28
I have a Knight Disc Elite (http://www.chuckhawks.com/knight_disc_elite.htm) stainless steel, 50cal. inline.

I noticed this problem last year and now that the season is fast approaching I am reminded of it again.

Depending on how clean or well lubed the bore is, the gun may shoot high or low.

I am shooting Hornady 240gr XTP (http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-Sabot-with-44-Cal-240-gr-HP-XTP-Bullet/) sabots over 100gr 777 pellets.

It is bad enough that I can tell by how hard the bullet goes down the barrel whether it will shoot high or low. If it goes real easy, 3" or more low at 100yds. Real hard, 3" or more high. :faint:

My solution was to clean the barrel as best I could between each shot while sighting in. This helps, but it is a very fine line between easy to load and harder. :dunno:

The best I can do is get the bore as clean and dry as I can and hope for the best.

Anyone else notice this?

noway
12-09-2009, 18:36
Have you tried the following, ensure that your using the correct sabot, get off triple7s and use RS, press the load down without compressing the load.

if I hearing you right, your complaining on a 3" low to 3" high deviation from a muzzleloader? That's not bad from a non-centerfire weapon that's pushing a load out about as fast a medium to long bbl 44mganum handgun.

You do know this is not a sub MOA weapon ;)

357glocker
12-10-2009, 01:14
I've never had really good results with muzzleloaders and XTP's. They load hard, are not real accurate in my ML. They are a good bullet but you may want to switch to another bullet to see if your ML will like it better. I've had good luck with powerbelts, but quit using them and went to the T/C Superglide Shockwave's in 250gr. I've hammered several deer with this load and all have died quick and the accuracy is great even from a clean and cold bore.

noway
12-10-2009, 08:02
I've never had really good results with muzzleloaders and XTP's. They load hard, are not real accurate in my ML. They are a good bullet but you may want to switch to another bullet to see if your ML will like it better. I've had good luck with powerbelts, but quit using them and went to the T/C Superglide Shockwave's in 250gr. I've hammered several deer with this load and all have died quick and the accuracy is great even from a clean and cold bore.

That's a interesting reply.

The XTP doesn't load any harder than any other bullet. It's the sabot that give the resistance to loading. Not the bullet, for the 240gr XTP 44mag , 2 different length sabots exist or you can buy 3rd party ones that works better by maintain higher seals.

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

On the Shockwave, it's another fine Hornady bullet. The shockwave is nothing more than a 250SST at the end of the day.


Since mzl'er bbl are not accurately bored, 50cal in one brand could be bigger or smaller than another mfg. Heck even within the same mfg'er their's deviation.

fwiw: My last 2 deers killed with a mzl'er have been with 240xtp 44mag bullet, very effective and accurate.

vafish
12-10-2009, 11:04
I've never noticed that, but I don't shoot Sabot's very much. Will have to ask my son to pay attention when he loads and shoots his.

But his biggest problem is cleaning the nipple out. He's missed 2 deer because of hang fires.

noway
12-10-2009, 11:27
Get a nipple pick or find dia wire. I always pick my nipples before blackpowder season.

On the ShockWave and SST,they are nice bullets. But I have yet to launch one at a game animal. I always revert back to the xtp240 44mag. They two of them need a adapter to properly load them on your ram rod, which is my main reason for not hunting with them.

357glocker
12-10-2009, 20:45
That's a interesting reply.

The XTP doesn't load any harder than any other bullet. It's the sabot that give the resistance to loading. Not the bullet, for the 240gr XTP 44mag , 2 different length sabots exist or you can buy 3rd party ones that works better by maintain higher seals.

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

On the Shockwave, it's another fine Hornady bullet. The shockwave is nothing more than a 250SST at the end of the day.


Since mzl'er bbl are not accurately bored, 50cal in one brand could be bigger or smaller than another mfg. Heck even within the same mfg'er their's deviation.

fwiw: My last 2 deers killed with a mzl'er have been with 240xtp 44mag bullet, very effective and accurate.
That's what I meant. The Hornady XTP and sabots that normally come packaged I think in 20's. They have always been a pretty tough combo to stuff down a tube.
Did not realize the Shockwave was a hornady as it is packaged by T/C, but yes basically a plastic tipped bullet the same as the SST. The superglide sabot loads much easier than the green or black hornady sabots and are very accurate out of my ML even on a cold bore.
Edited: the whole point of my post was to see if the OP had tried any other load combo to see if his rifle would like another better. Mine personally did not like the XTP packs.

TScottW99
12-17-2009, 03:09
Muzzleloaders can be real picky about any step in the loading process and any combo of bullet, sabot, primer and powder.

A Knight Disc Elite should be a Sub 2 MOA shooter if not better with the right load. However finding that load can be a real pain depending on the gun.

I have had luck with two Knight Discs shooting T/C Shockwaves in 250 grain, Winchester 209 primers and 90 - 110 grains of 777 FFG. Both would shoot under an inch at 100 yards.

sourdough44
12-19-2009, 04:58
Time for a muzzle-loader make-over. I have my 4 50cal Knights & took 9 deer & a coyote with one hunting 2 states. The extra anterless tags were on pvt property with to many deer. You have a fine M-L there, keep it clean-oil in the off season.

I'd research & use the new Blackhorn 209 powder. You will need a strong primer like CCI-M, find them. Any gun may shoot a little different with a clean bore vrs a fouled one. Mine does, but not enough to matter for the 50 yrd shot. I have mostly used the 250grn SST, regular not 'easy-glide/low-drag'. The low drag types are to loose in my Knight.

777 is O.K. on the speed dept but the real joy of B209 is you can let the cleaning go for a few days after shooting. You can also load after shooting without any thought of swabbing. Check out the B209 website for details.
Once you get your gun all tricked out it should be as effective as a single shot 308,(O.K. maybe not quite). While not to 'traditional' great for a guy who wants to extend the season.

TScottW99
12-22-2009, 00:38
I love Black Horn 209 but you may want to be careful with it in a Knight Disc rifle. Black Horn is not for any of the disc rifles and some people have had trouble shooting it in them.

Has to do with the primer being further away from the powder, there are certain type of breech plugs you need to stay away from with the 209.

I am shooting the Black Horn 209 in my T/C Triumph Bonecollect at 115 grains with a CCI M209 primer and 250 grain Barnes TMZ-EZ, love that load!

sourdough44
12-25-2009, 04:31
Plenty shoot B209 in a Knight, I & my buddy have this Fall & last. I took 14 deer over the last 2 years with my Knight,B209 & 250grn Hornady SSTs. I have the 'orange' discs & the buddy the 'red'. You just have to use a strong primer.

Some folks can have trouble with B209 in any M-L. 1st the gun & BP must be compatable, you need a strong primer, & you have to firmly seat the sabot on the powder.