Which powder for 40? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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blkpag1
12-21-2009, 21:10
I am getting ready to start reloading 40. I am looking for suggestions for powders. What is everyone using?

freakshow10mm
12-21-2009, 21:32
WST
WSF
HS6
#7
W231
TG

Depends on what you want to do with it.

blkpag1
12-21-2009, 21:40
I am just looking for some options to start some load development. Thanks.

DEADLYACCURATE
12-21-2009, 21:42
Power Pistol
W231
AA#5
AA#7
Unique

My favorite is PP

fredj338
12-21-2009, 23:15
Medium to full power loads, WSF or Unique give me exc. accuracy. For light to medium loads, W231 or WST for me.

blkpag1
12-21-2009, 23:37
Thanks guys this is just what I am looking for.

threefeathers
12-22-2009, 00:00
For me.
Unique. 800X, WST, P B, Red Dot, Clays.

shotgunred
12-22-2009, 00:03
1. Win 231
2. power pistol
3. Unique
4. VV 320

m2hmghb
12-22-2009, 00:03
I use blue dot, titegroup, or power pistol.

chineseboxer
12-22-2009, 08:00
Win231

ron59
12-22-2009, 08:42
I would definitely go with some GUN powder.

I haven't been getting very good ignition with alternatives, such as TALCUM powder.



j/k :supergrin:

YogiBearFan
12-22-2009, 08:50
W231 and Titegroup for target work are all I have ever used in my G22.
As with the OP, I just started reloading for the 40s&w.

A while back, there was an article in Handgun magazine that made alot of sense. The author suggested that reloaders should work up a "defense" loads to mimic their carry loads, with a similar hollow point bullet.

Those "practice" rounds are loaded with PowerPistol, but, as always, work up a load and don't get to crazy.

shotgunred
12-22-2009, 12:03
So now you know there are a lot of different powders that will work with the 40. But what type of round do you want to make? Gun game minor or major load, bunny fart, some middle of the road round or a super hot blazer?
Different powders have different burn rates and are going to be better for different things. Longshot would be a good choice for a super hot blazer but a bad choice for a minor or bunny fart load. vv320 is a good choice for a minor or bunny fart load but a bad choice for a super hot load. power pistol works across the spectrum but is loud and has more recoil than most others.

So just what do you want to do with your bullets?

fredj338
12-22-2009, 12:07
So now you know there are a lot of different powders that will work with the 40. But what type of round do you want to make? Gun game minor or major load, bunny fart, some middle of the road round or a super hot blazer?
Different powders have different burn rates and are going to be better for different things. Longshot would be a good choice for a super hot blazer but a bad choice for a minor or bunny fart load. vv320 is a good choice for a minor or bunny fart load but a bad choice for a super hot load. power pistol works across the spectrum but is loud and has more recoil than most others.

So just what do you want to do with your bullets?
That's why I prefaced my choices. Good job clarifying that. Burn rates & the 40 are very important for safe handloads. Trying to do too much w/ powders like TG, Clays, RedDot, etc can get you into trouble wuickly especially w/ 180gr bullets.

buckshotshorty
12-22-2009, 13:03
Forty cal. I load using:

HP38/WW 231 (same powder) for lighter loads
WSF or UNIQUE heavier loads.

shotgunred
12-22-2009, 14:29
I use win 231 for my light and power pistol for my heavy loads.

Mystic Knight
12-22-2009, 17:23
I just fired my first reloads. I did one batch of 165g fmj with 5 grains Win 231, which worked nicely, but I could tell it was less "snappy" that the factory Federals I buy at Wally World. I also loaded some of the same with 5.3 grains Win 231, and they were more like the store-bought stuff. I didn't have a good target (just shooting in the country) so I couldn't tell much about accuracy. I was wondering how you tell if your bullets are accurate if you're not a great shooter yourself. Guess I'll have to figure that out later.:supergrin:

I was very happy with the performance of my reloads, and gained a little confidink. Really glad neither me nor my G22 blowed up!:phew: Lookin' forward to getting more into it.

By the way, I chose the 231 powder mainly because it looks to be very versatile, i.e., it's used in many recipes. My next choice would be Unique, for the same reason. (understandably novice reasons)

Fire_Medic
12-22-2009, 20:21
Dig into Solo 1,000 also for the 40 over on the Brian Enos Forums. :wavey:

blkpag1
12-22-2009, 20:43
I am going to try three or four different powders and create a few test loads this weekend. Thanks for everyones help.

kcbrown
12-23-2009, 03:24
Silhouette.

6.0 grains under a 180gr Montana Gold JHP bullet at 1.135" or a 180gr MG CMJ at 1.130" (I just use the same setting for both in my Lee seating die -- the JHP is longer than the CMJ by .025" so it's safe, since there's more case volume with the CMJ and the load was worked up with the JHP). Recoil is slightly lighter than the 180 grain Federal American Eagle FMJ. I don't know what it chronos at since I need the external lighting kit to get my chrono to work at the indoor range (and would need to make use of batteries for it since there probably isn't an outlet nearby), but the book says that 6.2gr sends it downrange at 1020 FPS and 5.5 gets 920 FPS, so I figure 6.0 gets about 1000 FPS.

I get 2 inch groups handheld at 25 yards out of my Glock 23 with the CMJ.

Silhouette is really great stuff. People have pushed 9mm loads up to major with it.

Blinkster
12-23-2009, 18:55
I use 4.0gr of Power Pistol over a 180gr bullet. Out of my G35 it runs about 760fps (137 pf). It is pretty accurate for me out of a KKM barrel.

fredj338
12-23-2009, 20:48
I didn't have a good target (just shooting in the country) so I couldn't tell much about accuracy. I was wondering how you tell if your bullets are accurate if you're not a great shooter yourself. Guess I'll have to figure that out later.
This is actually harder than it sounds. If you can only shoot 6" groups @ 15yds, then it's pretty tough to test ammo for accuracy. You can bench rest the pistol; I use a 4x6 flat w/ a sandbag on top (shot bags are great). Rest your forearms over the bag & make sure the pistol doesn't strike the rest. Fire slow deliberate 5shot groups. I use 15yds as a minimum. IMO, testing @ 7yds, like some posts I've read, means very little. Just about any crap ammo will shoot into 1" or less @ 7yds in a good gun w/ a competent shooter. So 15yds is my min. 25yds when you are a shooting better, 50yds for the guys planning on hunting. Ten yards if you really can't keep rounds in tight is acceptable, but you need more practice. Good ammo, good gun, good shooter, 1 1/2" offhand groups @ 15yds is my goal, a bit better from a rest.

cleatis1234
12-24-2009, 10:38
I like W231, for the simple reason it works in 9mm, 38 Special, .40 S&W, .45ACP and some light .44 rounds. Keeps me from having a bunch of different brands on the shelf.

For the same reason, I like Hodgdon's Varget for rifle powder. Use it my .30-06 & .223.

With this versatility, the only wildcard I have is the .44 Magnum, and a 1lb can of H110 lasts quite awhile for that monster.

Having said that, I've noticed that Alliant Bullseye shoots better in my .45's. But with availability the way it is today, I stick to W231 for the time being.

I'm a simple beast, so the less confusing I can make my life, the happier I am.

fr8owner
12-24-2009, 17:35
I use http://www.precisionbullets.com/ 155grn RNF with 5.3 grains of unique and some magtech small pistol primers. It shot great! I in fact just worked up these loads too
5.7 grains of unique with 155 grn bullets above: shot well but a little bit more snappy.
4.6 grains of bullseye with 155 grn bullets above: dirty but accurate.
I by far for plinking like the 5.3 grains of unique as a light load that is accurate at 25 yds. Double taps on a steel gong were almost too easy at that distance. Also there were ZERO signs of bulging or over pressure with the stock G22 barrel. In fact the brass made a nice consistant pile in the dirt right next to me.

Guntrainer
12-24-2009, 21:15
As a commercial loader, I prefer Hodgdon HS-6 and Accurate #7. They are hard to beat in high performance 40's.

I do not like to use fast powders in the 40.

I load the 165 gr bullet in various configurations. I tend to stay away from the 180.

steve4102
12-24-2009, 21:44
I tend to stay away from the 180.

Mind sharing your reasons why?

BHP9
12-26-2009, 07:33
N320
TiteGroup

IndyGunFreak
12-26-2009, 12:50
Add me to the 231 crowd.

IGF

fredj338
12-26-2009, 19:56
As a commercial loader, I prefer Hodgdon HS-6 and Accurate #7. They are hard to beat in high performance 40's.

I do not like to use fast powders in the 40.

I load the 165 gr bullet in various configurations. I tend to stay away from the 180.

180gr bullets run quite well w/ those powders. Pretty tough to get into trouble there. Now uberfasts, like TG, CLays, etc w/ 180gr, yeah, gotta be waaay careful there.

irishman001
12-27-2009, 22:38
went to get 231 and there was none. Picked up 8lbs of Accurate #7 for $115. Thought that was a good deal. I was hoping to get the 231 because Speers is showing it takes almost half as much powder per bullet compared to the #7.

fredj338
12-28-2009, 00:55
went to get 231 and there was none. Picked up 8lbs of Accurate #7 for $115. Thought that was a good deal. I was hoping to get the 231 because Speers is showing it takes almost half as much powder per bullet compared to the #7.

Keep in mind that half the powder is a alot more pressure as well. If you are a newb to reloading, especially high pressure rounds like the 40, stick w/ med.-med. slow powders at first. You can get into trouble very quickly w/ powders faster than Unique.

freakshow10mm
12-28-2009, 08:36
As a commercial loader, I prefer Hodgdon HS-6 and Accurate #7. They are hard to beat in high performance 40's.

I do not like to use fast powders in the 40.

I load the 165 gr bullet in various configurations. I tend to stay away from the 180.
As a commercial loader myself, I'm curious. The .40 S&W was designed around a 180gr bullet. I used to offer 135, 155, and 165gr loads but the 180gr load outsold the others combined by an embarrassing margin. Why does the 180gr bullet weight alarm you?

Colorado4Wheel
12-28-2009, 09:04
I think people gravitate to the lighter bullets to save money. Paper doesn't know the difference between a heavy and light bullet. People who shoot reactive targets generally know what works for them and what doesn't.

88_gurgel
12-28-2009, 10:20
I use HS-6 and 180 grain fmj. I get a TON of fire out the barrel of my g27 though and even at the high end of the load, the felt recoil is still less than the defensive ammo I use.

shotgunred
12-28-2009, 11:23
went to get 231 and there was none. Picked up 8lbs of Accurate #7 for $115. Thought that was a good deal. I was hoping to get the 231 because Speers is showing it takes almost half as much powder per bullet compared to the #7.

Have you ever tired AA7? 8lbs sound like a lot for a powder you don't love.
AA-7 From 7.4 grains to 9.7 grains so if we said 8.0gr you have enough for right around 7k. I sure hope you like it.

StoneDog
12-28-2009, 20:04
Keep in mind that half the powder is a alot more pressure as well. If you are a newb to reloading, especially high pressure rounds like the 40, stick w/ med.-med. slow powders at first. You can get into trouble very quickly w/ powders faster than Unique.

Is there a burn rate chart somewhere that will help newbs? I'm ready to start reloading 165gr .40 and have a few pounds of HS-6 and Clays Universal. How do these compare to Unique?

EDIT: Answered my own question, a chart can be found here (http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html).

fredj338
12-29-2009, 00:01
Is there a burn rate chart somewhere that will help newbs? I'm ready to start reloading 165gr .40 and have a few pounds of HS-6 and Clays Universal. How do these compare to Unique?

EDIT: Answered my own question, a chart can be found here (http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html).

Here is one: http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html They vary a bit, but that is pretty much the order. Universal is a bit faster in some applications than Unique & HS6 is a bit slower. Depends on what cartridge & bullet wts.
Faster powders are fine, jsut remember that pressures build very fast w/ them & you do NOT want to push max loads using fast powders. There is absolutly no room for any loading errors or malfunctions like bullet setback in high pressure rounds w/ fast powders. If you must use them to dave 1/5 of a penny, stick to just above starting loads.
Powder is the cheapest part of a reload today, I don't choose a powder based on saving 1/5 of a cent/rd. I look for a powder that safely gives me the vel I want w/ the best accuracy I can get.

Guntrainer
12-29-2009, 00:38
The 40 has been out a while. I read something a factory rep said about the 40 when they were in the midst of the Kaboom problem. He wrote that the best way to avoid problems in the 40 was to stay away from the 180 gr bullet.

I cannot remember who wrote it, but he was a big-ast Pete in the ammo industry or I would have disregarded it.

I personally like the 165. At 1000 fps it works in any gun, and will not give a problem in any of them. HS-6 cannot be double charged, and seems easy to ignite with the various primers available today. Accurate #7 will leak in many powder measures. It is like talcum powder, but is a fabulous powder for the 40 as well as the 9mm and Super 38.

I only load practice 40's to sell. I have worked up some high speed defensive loads using VV 3N37, but do not generally sell them. That powder is expensive.

freakshow10mm
12-29-2009, 01:04
The 40 has been out a while. I read something a factory rep said about the 40 when they were in the midst of the Kaboom problem. He wrote that the best way to avoid problems in the 40 was to stay away from the 180 gr bullet.

I cannot remember who wrote it, but he was a big-ast Pete in the ammo industry or I would have disregarded it.

Bullet weight and bullet weight alone will not cause a single problem with anything.

On that note...:upeyes: I'll continue business as usual.

irishman001
12-29-2009, 09:47
Have you ever tired AA7? 8lbs sound like a lot for a powder you don't love.
AA-7 From 7.4 grains to 9.7 grains so if we said 8.0gr you have enough for right around 7k. I sure hope you like it.

Well now you got me worried. It was the only powder I could find without having to backorder it and what until when ever. I did go half with a buddy. I guess I need to get a few more manuals because the Speer is saying the min. is 10 grains. Should I be starting with a lesser charge or try selling the AA#7 and waiting for 231?

I will be using 155gr bullet if that matters.

shotgunred
12-29-2009, 12:20
Well now you got me worried. It was the only powder I could find without having to backorder it and what until when ever. I did go half with a buddy. I guess I need to get a few more manuals because the Speer is saying the min. is 10 grains. Should I be starting with a lesser charge or try selling the AA#7 and waiting for 231?

I will be using 155gr bullet if that matters.

I don't have a manual in front of me but Steve's site says..
AA-7 From 7.7 grains to 11.3 grains. I would never use anything he calls top end as he seems to have little use for sami pressure guidelines. He is a wealth of information I just wouldn't follow him to the high end of reloading. But then the 40 is not the round to be chasing the ragged edge with in the first place.

When the 40 first came out everyone said to use AA5 which ended up being a bad choice and caused some of the KB issues. I haven't used any accurate powder since then. So I cant say anything about your choice other than it is not one of the usual choices.

Colorado4Wheel
12-29-2009, 12:47
Well now you got me worried. It was the only powder I could find without having to backorder it and what until when ever. I did go half with a buddy. I guess I need to get a few more manuals because the Speer is saying the min. is 10 grains. Should I be starting with a lesser charge or try selling the AA#7 and waiting for 231?

I will be using 155gr bullet if that matters.

Just go to Accurate Arms website and download their reloading guide. I just finished loading up a batch of 10mm with AA#7. I have replaced AA#7 with Power Pistol for economy reasons alone. PP uses less powder to acheive the same velocity. BUT, AA7 and PP are very similiar in results. It's a good powder, meters like water, nice shooting. I think you will be very happy. Try a heavier bullet with it when you get a chance. I think you will like that as well. It won't give you the highest velocity, etc. but who cares. It's a nice middle of the road powder for the .40.

fredj338
12-29-2009, 17:47
Well now you got me worried. It was the only powder I could find without having to backorder it and what until when ever. I did go half with a buddy. I guess I need to get a few more manuals because the Speer is saying the min. is 10 grains. Should I be starting with a lesser charge or try selling the AA#7 and waiting for 231?

I will be using 155gr bullet if that matters.
You'll be fine w/ AA#7. DO NOT run it below starting data. In fact, I don't even like starting data w/ med. to med. slow burners. Go with average middle data & work up in 0.1gr increments until you get the accuracy & relaibility you are looking for. DO not exceed average max data. You can get some pretty impressive vel. w/ AA#7 w/all bullet wts. Going faster will only limit your vel. level but if it's only puinching paper, matters little. I like the broader range of laods w/ med. burners. If you want to push 155gr bullets @ 1200fps, it is safer w AA#7 than something like W231.

irishman001
12-30-2009, 07:53
Thank god. Now here is what I don't understand. Accurate is saying that with 155gr Rainier bullets to use 9.3gr and Speer is wanting me to use 10gr. Do I start with the 9.3 or just stick with the 10? Does anyone know what Lymans book is starting the load at?

Colorado4Wheel
12-30-2009, 09:00
Lyman didn't test AA#7 with a 155 gr bullet. I have used Accurates data and it's good. Start with that. I don't know why you seem nervous about this powder. Just start at starting loads and work it up like normal.

grenadier
12-30-2009, 09:55
Power Pistol and 165 grain bullets give me a very accurate and consistent combination.

Recipe (thanks to WESHOOT2, from the year 2000):

165 grain FMJ flat point bullet
6.6 grains Alliant Power Pistol (7.2 grains max)
Winchester standard small pistol primer
COAL = 1.130"

irishman001
12-30-2009, 10:45
Lyman didn't test AA#7 with a 155 gr bullet. I have used Accurates data and it's good. Start with that. I don't know why you seem nervous about this powder. Just start at starting loads and work it up like normal.

Its not that I'm nervous, I am just a newb and this will be my first time loading. All of this is new to me and I want to make sure that I am not over charging the round. From what I can find the lowest starting point would be 9.3gr so I will start there. I just don't want use to little powder and have problems or to much and have problems.

thanks for all the answers. I will be making my first batch this weekend.

Colorado4Wheel
12-30-2009, 11:09
You will be fine if you stick with the Accurate Arms data I posted. Sorry, I didn't realize this was your first batch. Verify powder in each case. Settle the powder in the measure (super easy with #7). What are you loading on?

irishman001
12-30-2009, 11:31
a dillion 550B. I should of said it was my first batch to begin with. Thanks for all your help.

Colorado4Wheel
12-30-2009, 11:39
Another tip, Get in the habbit of placing the bullet on the empty but charged case in staion #2. Follow the Dillon instructions for setting the flare on the case. I use .015". If you place the bullet on station # 2 right after peering in the case you simply can not pull the handle again and double charge the case. Also, after you get in the habit I think it's actually faster. Key is putting the bullet on the case and not allowing it to tip over. Bullet styles may require more flare for this technique.

shotgunred
12-30-2009, 11:44
I don't know how dense AA7 is but I bet with a load like that it will be impossible to double charge with. Were win 231 you can easily tripe charge. Fred is right stick with medium burners and medium loads when you are learning to reload.

fredj338
12-30-2009, 11:54
Its not that I'm nervous, I am just a newb and this will be my first time loading. All of this is new to me and I want to make sure that I am not over charging the round. From what I can find the lowest starting point would be 9.3gr so I will start there. I just don't want use to little powder and have problems or to much and have problems.

thanks for all the answers. I will be making my first batch this weekend.

Don't make a "batch" of more than 10rds. Load small test batches & increase 0.1gr at a time. Shoot them in order. Note functionality, accuracy, any unburnt powder (often w/ med. burners @ starting levels) & any signs of pressure. In a semiauto, that will be flattened primers, excessive case head marking by the breach face &/or gouges in the extraced case rim. Again, you have more than one data source, use the avg between them for your starting loads. IMO, again, I do not like starting loads w/ med. burn powders in semiautos. You'll likely have less than desireable results w/ unburnt powder & possible FT function.

irishman001
01-01-2010, 23:28
I appreciate all the tips. I'm on my way down to the man cave to start loading my test batches. I think I will start with 9.4gr and go up to 10gr in multiples of 10 increasing .1gr per 10.

steve4102
01-02-2010, 08:45
Just shot this yesterday at 19 yards, 180gr Zero JHP/8.4gr #7. I think I like it.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/IMG_0238.jpg

I also tested some LS in my 23. WOW! I loaded 6.5 to 7.0gr with 180gr Zero JHPs. The 7gr was so "Snappy" that it hurt my trigger finger. Course being -2* didn't help much either. The 7.0gr Clocked at an avg of 1088fps. Hodgdon's max for LS is 8.0gr, I don't think I will be going near there anytime soon.

MSgt Dotson
01-02-2010, 10:17
Titegroup is economical (small charges), clean burning, very good velocities....

PBKing
01-02-2010, 10:23
Titegroup for light loads and HS-6, AA7 or Unique for SD loads.

I really like to work with AA7 and the performance is outstanding in med to SD loads but with light charges you can run into unburnt powder issues.

Of course this is not a recommendation, there are a plethora of other serviceable powders. Experimenting and developing loads is half the fun.

irishman001
01-03-2010, 22:07
Well I went out with the first batches today. Started with 9.4gr AA#7 with 155gr Rainer FN and winchester primers, increasing .1gr every 10 rounds. Shot out of a Sig P226 with 10 shot groups.
The results:
19* wind NNW 19mph with gusts up to 23mph
20yds shooting seated with arms rested on gun rug. Not perfect but fine for freezing weather.

9.4gr= 2.00"
9.5gr= 2.85"
9.7gr= 3.10"
9.8gr= 4.02"
9.9gr= 2.02"
10gr = 4.11"
For reference I shot WWB 180gr first and last and the best group was 4.02"

I am very pleased with my first time loading. It is fun and it looks like they are shooting better then factory white box. I couldn't believe they all functioned 100%

fredj338
01-04-2010, 13:20
Well I went out with the first batches today. Started with 9.4gr AA#7 with 155gr Rainer FN and winchester primers, increasing .1gr every 10 rounds. Shot out of a Sig P226 with 10 shot groups.
The results:
19* wind NNW 19mph with gusts up to 23mph
20yds shooting seated with arms rested on gun rug. Not perfect but fine for freezing weather.

9.4gr= 2.00"
9.5gr= 2.85"
9.7gr= 3.10"
9.8gr= 4.02"
9.9gr= 2.02"
10gr = 4.11"
For reference I shot WWB 180gr first and last and the best group was 4.02"

I am very pleased with my first time loading. It is fun and it looks like they are shooting better then factory white box. I couldn't believe they all functioned 100%

Well done. You'll find most handloads will shoot better by a good margin, than cheap factory plinking ammo. I recently tested some Blazer brass from an extremely accurate 1911. The best I could do @ 15yds was right @ 4". With my worst handloads the same pistol will do 1 1/2" @ 15yds.

irishman001
01-05-2010, 10:39
Thanks. Now I am hooked and I'm already planning out my weekend to start loading more to see if I can replicate the loads. Should I increase the powder and try it? The cases looked good with no high pressure signs. I don't know if more powder would make a difference with accuracy and the recoil seemed the same for each load. I am going to try to get ahold of a buddy that has a chrono so I can see what each round is doing.

Thanks again for all the help, now I am addicted.

MSgt Dotson
01-05-2010, 13:21
I use http://www.precisionbullets.com/ 155grn RNF with 5.3 grains of unique and some magtech small pistol primers. It shot great! I in fact just worked up these loads too
5.7 grains of unique with 155 grn bullets above: shot well but a little bit more snappy..

Used 6.8 gr of Unique with same 155 RNFP bullets, chronos 1135 fps avg from Glock 35...

fr8owner
01-05-2010, 13:30
I didnt want to go up too much as i am using the stock barrel and didnt want to get any leading. I have so far gone up to 6.3 grns of unique with good results too.

shotgunred
01-05-2010, 19:39
Thanks. Now I am hooked and I'm already planning out my weekend to start loading more to see if I can replicate the loads. Should I increase the powder and try it? The cases looked good with no high pressure signs. I don't know if more powder would make a difference with accuracy and the recoil seemed the same for each load. I am going to try to get ahold of a buddy that has a chrono so I can see what each round is doing.

Thanks again for all the help, now I am addicted.

No! try decreasing it a little. look at your results.

9.4gr= 2.00"
9.5gr= 2.85"
9.7gr= 3.10"
9.8gr= 4.02"
9.9gr= 2.02"
10gr = 4.11"
the spread is increasing as you powder up. Adding more will probably make it worst.

irishman001
01-06-2010, 10:47
Even if the 9.9gr was 2.02"? I'm new so I am still trying to grasp all the informtion I can get. The starting load is 9.3gr in the Accurate load data, would I want to go below that? I figured that would be the lowest and still have the gun function correctly.