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a_tack
12-25-2009, 14:40
Whos got em? do you like them?

WellArmedSheep
12-25-2009, 15:09
I built my 3-gun AR on a DPMS lower. It works great. I figured it would make sense to give props to the guys that support the sport.

Cobbersmom
12-25-2009, 15:39
Got one, like it, no complaints and lots of fun to shoot!

Alaskapopo
12-25-2009, 18:15
Whos got em? do you like them?

Been over this. Don't own one myself and never will. As a police department firearms instructor and armorer responsible for them however I have a lot of un wanted experience with them. Don't waste your money. Others are going to disagree but that is my 2 cents on the subject.
Pat

thisaway
12-25-2009, 19:08
I have a "Frankenrifle" AR built on a DPMS lower, but only the stripped lower and the bolt itself came from DPMS. All the other parts on the weapon are from other manufacturers. So I don't feel badly about it at all. It functions well, and it shoots well. I am not in Iraq, Afghanistan, Bananastan, or wherever, so I will likely never experience any problems.

Kentak
12-25-2009, 19:58
:popcorn:

furioso2112
12-25-2009, 20:01
I have an AP4 (their 16" .308 AR). I like it quite well, though only have 100+ rounds through it. So far, it seems far better than I expected based on the mixed reviews I saw about them before buying.

Randolph da man
12-25-2009, 20:04
junk...

but look on the bright side....


gays collect them....

ulose2
12-25-2009, 20:29
DPMS are forged & made to mil spec. I have my DPMS lower built with a 3#jp trigger mated to a POF gas piston upper. I owned other DPMS with no issues..

mattyk6
12-25-2009, 21:04
I have an AP4 and I've had it about a year. I love it. The only malfunctions I've had was with Wolf ammo when I first got it and didn't know anything ARs and 223.

Alaskapopo
12-25-2009, 21:49
DPMS are forged & made to mil spec. I have my DPMS lower built with a 3#jp trigger mated to a POF gas piston upper. I owned other DPMS with no issues..

Actually there is nothing mil spec about DPMS. I am happy that you have had good luck with yours. Without getting everyone all stired up I will say the DPMS is what it is, but it is certainly not mil spec.
Pat

Petrie
12-25-2009, 22:18
I have a DPMS Panther Classic. It's an A2 style rifle. No chrome-lining. I put 600 rounds of various ammo through it with only one jam when it was new. Real accurate gun. It's less than a year old so time will tell if it holds up.

mgs
12-26-2009, 06:58
There are only two suppliers of raw AR lowers in this country. The different manufacturers finish them to their specs to build their guns.....Mil-Spec or not. I built a rifle off a DPMS lower and it works fine. I did not use their parts kit but am shooting one of their 20" heavy barrels/tmarked upper & bolt/carrier and it's a tack driver. I personally would not pick their complete rifle over a Stag, Bushmaster, LMT, etc., Mike.

ulose2
12-26-2009, 07:49
Actually there is nothing mil spec about DPMS. I am happy that you have had good luck with yours. Without getting everyone all stired up I will say the DPMS is what it is, but it is certainly not mil spec.
Pat
Not to stir up a big debate, Could you give examples of 2 AR lowers that are consider one of the best and why? ex.. Noveske or RRA.. etc.. Thanks

madecov
12-26-2009, 07:57
Pretty much, a lower is a lower is a lower.
On 95% of them pick your roll mark and go.

Since the election when AR things had gone crazy there have been a whole slew of new lowers on the market. Some smaller companies have some out of spec issues

As for a decent lower to use as a build

Any of the known names who were around before the election should be good to go

BulgarWheat
12-26-2009, 09:18
I like my DPMS just fine. Haven't had any bad experience with it yet.

Having said that, I DID also pick up a Colt.

Alaskapopo
12-26-2009, 12:35
Not to stir up a big debate, Could you give examples of 2 AR lowers that are consider one of the best and why? ex.. Noveske or RRA.. etc.. Thanks

For the most part a lower is a lower is a lower. Some times the are out of spec. (holes drilled in wrong location seen that with Oly) What I was talking about with DPMS not being mil spec is their compete guns. If you want to use their lowers go ahead. The only issue I have had with lowers in my builds is tight mag wells in some of them that did not drop free with pmags. Laure (LMT) was one. CMMG was another.
Pat

MySiK26
12-26-2009, 17:00
In my 30+ years as a swat instructor and urban mall tactical entry instructor, I've seen many DPMS' malf when others colts' kept running (insert sarcastic upeyes smiley face here.)

MARSH1
12-26-2009, 17:41
The OP needs to be more specific about which model. In the past their entry level ARs might have been a decent value but it is a buyers market today and you can do better for little or no more money.

The make a pretty good .308 and some of the other calibers they build on the the standard AR platform get good user feedback for hunting.

Narc1911
12-26-2009, 18:03
I've have DPMS' and they are hit and miss, but overall they are a poor choice for an AR. Many casual shooters will have no problems if they get. I would never trust my life to a DPMS at work or even take one to a carbine class.

DPMS has piss poor testing and quality control. They let way too much crap out the door onto the public, plus they are way overpriced.

45reloader
12-26-2009, 18:43
Owner of the DPMS A2 lite.Never jammed a round of brass or steel ammo.
So it sucks,I feel cheated.

larry_minn
12-26-2009, 19:16
Like many other companies things have changed. They had dang good quality control/product in 80s till dang near 2000. I have my first one from them during ban. Just a hair under 5k rds would be my guess. One jam. (roll over prone, weak hand shooting under cover) my right hand blocked fired brass.

I have handled a couple after they moved to St Cloud... They just didn't feel as good. So I bought a RRA. BTW last carbine class I was at the Colts were the guns going down. Imagine that...

I have been told they have improved again. They sure are better then a number of ARs I have shot.

jobob
12-26-2009, 22:50
I've had good experiences with them, some folks haven't. Their quality control does seem to be a little hit or miss sometimes. I've had some problems with my .308, but never had a hitch with a 5.56/223 DPMS, though I've seen a couple (saw a locking lug break on a nearly new gun). They make accurate barrels, and if you want one for serious purposes, I'd change the bolt for a BC or JP, and have a gunsmith make sure the gas key is well staked. Then shoot 500 or 1k rounds through to make sure it's gtg. A lot of 3 gun shooters use them, because they support the sport, and they puts lots of lead downrange. I've heard of few complaints from competitors specific to DPMS.

That's all I'll say about them. I won't get into another pissing match with DPMS haters. Life's too short!

faawrenchbndr
12-27-2009, 14:06
Was shooting my Colt AR next to MySik26 today at the range.
He was shooting a DPMS,....:wow:

Guess what,

NO JAMS
NO EXPLOSIONS
NO FAILURES
NO ISSUES

Hmm was it luck or does he have a good one?
Or maybe the "DPMS is poor quality" is a myth?! I'm guessing Urban Legend!

Alaskapopo
12-27-2009, 14:24
Was shooting my Colt AR next to MySik26 today at the range.
He was shooting a DPMS,....:wow:

Guess what,

NO JAMS
NO EXPLOSIONS
NO FAILURES
NO ISSUES

Hmm was it luck or does he have a good one?
Or maybe the "DPMS is poor quality" is a myth?! I'm guessing Urban Legend!

Not a myth because I have seen the problems with my own eyes. As you know one range trip without problems does not a pattern make. I don't want to get into a pissing match again. But calling it a myth is basically call those of us who have seen the problems liars which I know is not your intent. But it did compel me to respond. I would not be as strong on this issue if I did not spend many a frustrated hour working to get DPMS guns to run right.
Happy new year.
Pat

faawrenchbndr
12-27-2009, 14:59
I hear ya Pat,.....not trying to stir the pot, but the record needs to be clarified.

You can not label all DPMS rifles as problematic. So you have seen some
that were problemsome. How many have they manufactured and how many have YOU
personally messed with?

Doubt the number you have handled would be .5% of the rifles DPMS has produced.

This one is one I checked out for another member when he bought it.
A short time ago, Mysik26 picked it up. I could find no issues with this
one. Key is staked very well, receiver fitment is good, trigger is fair,....
over all a good basic Carbine.

shineybore
12-28-2009, 14:41
Tack Drivers


DPMS is setting the AR industry standards. The true AR Cinderella firearms company. A platform all others model after. You don't own a DPMS you own a knock off.....














Disclaimer: I can't verify any of this BS just using others thoughts in my posts.

faawrenchbndr
12-28-2009, 14:43
.......Disclaimer: I can't verify any of this BS just using others thoughts in my posts.

:faint:,.....oh noooooo!

MySiK26
12-28-2009, 16:47
:faint:,.....oh noooooo!

:rofl:

I just got one of the good ones I guess, but what you say works BOTH ways. Just because I got a good one dont mean they're ALL good. I just don't like to see bashing or, someone trying to sell someone one specific brand. State your experience and move on.:dunno:

faawrenchbndr
12-28-2009, 16:54
I hear ya MySik26,....... but I bet there are at least 100 good ones for every bad one.

MySiK26
12-28-2009, 17:06
I hear ya MySik26,....... but I bet there are at least 100 good ones for every bad one.

YUP, just letting people I was NOT making a baised statement, at least not intentionally. I do not have extensive experience with these guns like some others here, just stating my experience with close to 1000 rounds downrange in 2 range trips.:wavey:

faawrenchbndr
12-28-2009, 17:10
I got'cha,......it may not hold up to a fast pace Carbine Class or
as a LEO Patrol rifle. But, I'd like to see ya wear it out! :rofl:

Is it "white glove clean" like my Colt?

mark68
12-30-2009, 00:49
Used one of their lowers on my 16" HB carbine. No complaints after about 300 rounds.

kirgi08
12-30-2009, 01:52
I know APP,we do tit-for-tat over this.Mine is/as far as I can tell 100% reliable.Brass/Steel,whatever.I shoot COM/like you do,never a FTF/FTE,NONE.Hits right where I aim it.'08.

LLL
12-30-2009, 20:33
Not a myth because I have seen the problems with my own eyes. As you know one range trip without problems does not a pattern make. I don't want to get into a pissing match again. But calling it a myth is basically call those of us who have seen the problems liars which I know is not your intent. But it did compel me to respond. I would not be as strong on this issue if I did not spend many a frustrated hour working to get DPMS guns to run right.
Happy new year.
Pat

just wondering, do you see a patternd problem with them, or different problems? and when you say many hours to fix, do you mean throw it in the trash can and buy a colt?
LLL

Alaskapopo
12-30-2009, 20:38
just wondering, do you see a patternd problem with them, or different problems? and when you say many hours to fix, do you mean throw it in the trash can and buy a colt?
LLL

I see various problems. If you own a DPMS I would not throw it away. I would probably sell the upper however or at the least have it re barreled and then buy a new bolt for it. I would stake the carrier key. Most of the most serious problems have been related to overly tight chambers which causes extraction issues when they get a tad dirty. You don't have to buy a Colt either. I am not a Colt snob. Colt is good but so is BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, Larue Etc. If those are out of your range as a new shooter I think Stag has a lot going for it. Bushmaster and RRA are also better options than DPMS.
pat

Alaskapopo
12-30-2009, 20:43
This would be a good thread for you to look at.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

LLL
12-30-2009, 20:48
I see various problems. If you own a DPMS I would not throw it away. I would probably sell the upper however or at the least have it re barreled and then buy a new bolt for it. I would stake the carrier key. Most of the most serious problems have been related to overly tight chambers which causes extraction issues when they get a tad dirty. You don't have to buy a Colt either. I am not a Colt snob. Colt is good but so is BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, Larue Etc. If those are out of your range as a new shooter I think Stag has a lot going for it. Bushmaster and RRA are also better options than DPMS.
pat

so if you had one, what would you do in order.(and getting a new upper is out, I just bought this set up, but want the best I can have with what I have. Thanks for any advise)

Alaskapopo
12-30-2009, 20:56
so if you had one, what would you do in order.(and getting a new upper is out, I just bought this set up, but want the best I can have with what I have. Thanks for any advise)

I would test fire it to see if it has any issues with extraction. This will be expensive but shoot at least 500 rounds through it without cleaning it. If it can handle that the barrel is most likely fine. Then I would buy a BCM extractor upgrade kit and a BCM bolt. I would also have your carrier key staked. (that is a simple job)

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm%20extractor%20spring%20upgrade.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-AR15-Bolt-Assembly-MPI-p/bcm%20bolt%20assemly%20mp.htm

I would do the staking job for you for free as would many others who own a MOAKS tool.
Before staking
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Stuff%20for%20sale/stagstakingjob.jpg

After.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Stuff%20for%20sale/stakingjob2.jpg

LLL
12-30-2009, 21:06
WOW, i never heard that before, you really dont think I should shot a clean barrel for the first 50 maybe???
I might take you up on the staking since I can just ship it to you and get it when your done, since I have one it would not be a rush job. In other words at you convenience.
LLL

Alaskapopo
12-30-2009, 21:09
WOW, i never heard that before, you really dont think I should shot a clean barrel for the first 50 maybe???
I might take you up on the staking since I can just ship it to you and get it when your done, since I have one it would not be a rush job. In other words at you convenience.
LLL

Go ahead and clean it if you want but if you are going to find out how reliable it is you need to let it get dirty. But make sure you lube it properly. Meaning very wet.
Pat

LLL
12-30-2009, 21:17
by chance do you have a link to proper break in, and any opinions are good, in other words you can give me the short list, didnt build it for sniping since I have a FNar, built for a battle rifle( and I already read all the save up a little more, again to late on that).
LLL

Alaskapopo
12-30-2009, 21:56
by chance do you have a link to proper break in, and any opinions are good, in other words you can give me the short list, didnt build it for sniping since I have a FNar, built for a battle rifle( and I already read all the save up a little more, again to late on that).
LLL

I don't have a link. I have followed break in procedures on some rifles and then not on others and I have not noticed one bit of difference. In my opinion its a waste of time.
Pat

LLL
12-30-2009, 22:23
tend to agree, worked on base a while and those guys just grab em out the box and start shotin, Ill baby it for the first 50 to make sure alls working correct then Ill let it run. thanks for the advise, im going to do those tips.
LLL

Seattle206
12-30-2009, 23:54
I had a DPMS LPK in one of my receivers, absolute crap! parts were out of spec, the rear take down pin comes loose under fire. Ordered a CMMG LPK, swtiched out everything and problem solved, can't rely on their stuff.

K. Foster
12-31-2009, 07:10
You can stake the carrier key with a hammer and punch. Takes me about 5 minutes.

LLL
12-31-2009, 08:26
You can stake the carrier key with a hammer and punch. Takes me about 5 minutes.

takes me less than 5 min to f#^k it up. LOL:tongueout:

Alaskapopo
12-31-2009, 10:36
You can stake the carrier key with a hammer and punch. Takes me about 5 minutes.

While its possible most people don't get it done properly with this method and it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes.
Pat

Singlestack Wonder
12-31-2009, 11:07
i hear ya pat,.....not trying to stir the pot, but the record needs to be clarified.

You can not label all dpms rifles as problematic. So you have seen some
that were problemsome. How many have they manufactured and how many have you
personally messed with?

Doubt the number you have handled would be .5% of the rifles dpms has produced.

This one is one i checked out for another member when he bought it.
A short time ago, mysik26 picked it up. I could find no issues with this
one. Key is staked very well, receiver fitment is good, trigger is fair,....
Over all a good basic carbine.

+1..........

Petrie
12-31-2009, 21:14
To properly stake the gas key you turn it on its side in a vice and hit with punch from the side right? Some photos I see look like they stake it from the top.

Alaskapopo
12-31-2009, 21:20
To properly stake the gas key you turn it on its side in a vice and hit with punch from the side right? Some photos I see look like they stake it from the top.

I use a MOAKS tool. It crimps it in very fast and easy.
Pat

jrs93accord
01-01-2010, 02:25
This started out as a DPMS Panther Carbine (11.5" barrel w/ 5.5" FH) back in 2004. It became a registered SBR in 2006. In 2009, the configuration was changed to a MK18 CQBR with a LMT 10.5 upper and a few other goodies. It still retains the original DPMS LPK and works very well to this day.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/DSC00845.jpg

K. Foster
01-01-2010, 14:42
While its possible most people don't get it done properly with this method and it takes a lot longer than 5 minutes.
Pat



If you know what youíre doing it takes about 5 minutes.

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 14:51
If you know what you’re doing it takes about 5 minutes.

I have seen 5 minute stake jobs with a punch and guess what they were not staked very well. The MOAKS tool makes it easy.
Pat

faawrenchbndr
01-01-2010, 15:24
I use a MOAKS tool. It crimps it in very fast and easy......

The MOAKS does an outstanding job,....it's also "idiot proof"

45reloader
01-01-2010, 16:39
The MOAKS does an outstanding job,....it's also "idiot proof"
I bet he bought two then :tongueout:

rkwrichard
01-01-2010, 16:45
I have one and it has been great. I have never had a malfunction and it shoots very small groups at 100 yard. Mine is tight and the bolt and carrier have held up great.

K. Foster
01-01-2010, 17:09
I have seen 5 minute stake jobs with a punch and guess what they were not staked very well. The MOAKS tool makes it easy.
Pat


I can only speak for the work I do.
For anyone that’s interested, here’s a brief explanation.
Place the carrier group in a padded vice. A small punch and any decent size hammer will work fine. With the hammer and punch, push metal from each side of the bolt holes up against the 2 bolt heads, staking each bolt in 2 places. If any of the metal from the sides of the key protrude much above the key or bolt head, I tap it back down or file it off. The carrier key is fairly soft metal so start with light taps. The goal of staking is to keep the bolts from vibrating loose.
The MOAKS is a good tool if you do a lot of staking. My only point was it’s not necessary if you just do it occasionally.

Singlestack Wonder
01-01-2010, 17:20
I can only speak for the work I do.
For anyone thatís interested, hereís a brief explanation.
Place the carrier group in a padded vice. A small punch and any decent size hammer will work fine. With the hammer and punch, push metal from each side of the bolt holes up against the 2 bolt heads, staking each bolt in 2 places. If any of the metal from the sides of the key protrude much above the key or bolt head, I tap it back down or file it off. The carrier key is fairly soft metal so start with light taps. The goal of staking is to keep the bolts from vibrating loose.
The MOAKS is a good tool if you do a lot of staking. My only point was itís not necessary if you just do it occasionally.


The Moak's is a great tool and certainly keep the project almost "idiot proof", but as stated, with experience, it's not needed. In regards to DPMS, the only current issue I tend to see is the bolt carrier staking. As stated above, this is easily fixed by either re-staking or adding an aftermarket bolt carrier group such as a BCM, Daniel Defense, LMT, etc.

Singlestack Wonder
01-01-2010, 17:22
This started out as a DPMS Panther Carbine (11.5" barrel w/ 5.5" FH) back in 2004. It became a registered SBR in 2006. In 2009, the configuration was changed to a MK18 CQBR with a LMT 10.5 upper and a few other goodies. It still retains the original DPMS LPK and works very well to this day.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/DSC00845.jpg

Nice build!

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 17:28
I bet he bought two then :tongueout:

Really do you feel this post added anything to the thread. Try and follow the rules by not insulting other posters.
Pat

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 17:30
I can only speak for the work I do.
For anyone thatís interested, hereís a brief explanation.
Place the carrier group in a padded vice. A small punch and any decent size hammer will work fine. With the hammer and punch, push metal from each side of the bolt holes up against the 2 bolt heads, staking each bolt in 2 places. If any of the metal from the sides of the key protrude much above the key or bolt head, I tap it back down or file it off. The carrier key is fairly soft metal so start with light taps. The goal of staking is to keep the bolts from vibrating loose.
The MOAKS is a good tool if you do a lot of staking. My only point was itís not necessary if you just do it occasionally.

Do you have some pics of one of your staking jobs. Generally when people try this they don't get it done well enough from what I have seen.
Pat

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 18:22
Nice build!

Yes it is considering the key elements of the rifle that affect reliability the most have been replaced with LMT parts. (the upper)
Pat

jrs93accord
01-01-2010, 18:55
Yes it is considering the key elements of the rifle that affect reliability the most have been replaced with LMT parts. (the upper)
Pat

Even before the DPMS upper was changed out, I was running a BCM FA BCG with the upgrade kit.

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 19:03
Even before the DPMS upper was changed out, I was running a BCM FA BCG with the upgrade kit.

You're a smart man.
Pat

K. Foster
01-01-2010, 19:27
Pat
I never thought to take any pictures. The first time I did one, I just kept tapping until it looked just like a Colt bolt carrier I was using for comparison. After that, I just tapped on them until they looked good. You can take my word for it or not.

Alaskapopo
01-01-2010, 19:50
Pat
I never thought to take any pictures. The first time I did one, I just kept tapping until it looked just like a Colt bolt carrier I was using for comparison. After that, I just tapped on them until they looked good. You can take my word for it or not.

I believe you I just have not seen that many people get good results from the method your are describing including myself. That is why I got the MOAKS tool. If you say it looks as good as Colts then that is great. Most I have seen are not and look more like what you see on a RRA carrier. (not much)

Singlestack Wonder
01-02-2010, 12:21
While at the range today putting another 500 malfunction free rounds thru my DPMS AP4 (400 of which was Wolf) while running various drills, my partner's Colt carbine would not run more than two mags of the Wolf without choking (failure to extract). Sooner or later I need to "upgrade" to a Colt or other "top tier" rifle. :rofl:

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 13:23
While at the range today putting another 500 malfunction free rounds thru my DPMS AP4 (400 of which was Wolf) while running various drills, my partner's Colt carbine would not run more than two mags of the Wolf without choking (failure to extract). Sooner or later I need to "upgrade" to a Colt or other "top tier" rifle. :rofl:

The experience you listed is the exception not the rule. Again take that Don't Pass Muster Scrap rifle to any good carbine class and see how long it goes. If it finishes the class it would be the first time a DPMS has done so that I know of. I have yet to see a DPMS make it all the way through carbine class without crapping out. Are there Colts out there in dis repair or worn out that perform as baddly as a new DPMS sure there is. You shoot anything long enough and it will wear out. The problem with DPMS is they come from the factory unreliable.
Video of a DPMS choking. 35 seconds into the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5mz8ZlHaJ4
Pat

faawrenchbndr
01-02-2010, 13:38
Pat, you NEED to understand,....... not everyone needs or can afford the
top-of-the-line AR15.
Just like how everyone does not need a Mercedes, some people's budgets/needs
dictate that they drive a Ford Focus.

There is no need to constantly tell everyone DPMS is crap. It works for
Singlestack Wonder, it works for MySik26,....it works for others. Unless it
is your mission in life, to go down as "that guy from Alaska that was always
putting down peoples' rifles" drop the Crusade.

You are a very knowledgeable individual with the AR platform, PLEEEEESE
use your talent a bit more constructively. You can teach new shooters a LOT!

Singlestack Wonder
01-02-2010, 14:29
Pat, you NEED to understand,....... not everyone needs or can afford the
top-of-the-line AR15.
Just like how everyone does not need a Mercedes, some people's budgets/needs
dictate that they drive a Ford Focus.

There is no need to constantly tell everyone DPMS is crap. It works for
Singlestack Wonder, it works for MySik26,....it works for others. Unless it
is your mission in life, to go down as "that guy from Alaska that was always
putting down peoples' rifles" drop the Crusade.

You are a very knowledgeable individual with the AR platform, PLEEEEESE
use your talent a bit more constructively. You can teach new shooters a LOT!

+1

The "elitist AR-15" crowd tends to do this for some unknown reason. Reminds me of the equivalent in the 1911 world. A group of us have weekly shoots thru the winter to attempt to stay in form for the upcoming shooting season. We typically shoot 200+ rounds or more a week thru our tactical style rifles. I shoot both 5.56 and 7.62 thru the AR platform. This weekend I put over a 1000 rounds thru both my DPMS 7.62 and 5.56 platforms with no issues whatsoever. I've owned many manufacturer's models over the past 20years including Colt, BCM, and Daniel Defense. While the more expensive rifles ran fine, so did the Bushmasters and DPMS models. Yes, once in a while I would have an issue with extraction or a canted FSB, but they were easy fixes and cost much less to fix than spending the extra dollars on the "top tier" models. In closing, if one wants a top tier rifle, go for it. However, to get a great functioning rifle, one can be had for less.

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 15:53
+1

The "elitist AR-15" crowd tends to do this for some unknown reason. Reminds me of the equivalent in the 1911 world.

Here we go with the name calling. The simple truth is you get what you pay for. If something is cheaper there is a reason. There is no free lunch in life. 1911's are another area where you need to be willing to pay for good guns. There is a lot of pure crap out there that does not work. I have to make an observation about you. You have said things in the past about operators likeing their Ar10's. BS. No operators use AR10's. You pretty much talk out your rear and its obvious. The military did go with Stoner sniper rifle that is a semi auto .308 but its not an AR10 or a DPMS Ar10. Guns from both companies failed miserably in the millitary trials. Hell even the Stoner did not do that great it just did better than the others. There are a lot of complaints from the field as well from end users having reliablity problems with their SR25's. Yet you claimed the AR10 is just as reliable as the Ar15. This is just one example of a claim you have made as fact that is clearly BS. Now over here on GT you are saying that your DPMS is better than Colt because your buddies Colt malfunctioned with Wolf ammo. More great logic. You need to get some training so you might actually know what you are talking about.
The lack of tact in this post is brought on by your name calling which was un called for.

Pat

faawrenchbndr
01-02-2010, 15:58
Wow,...great "people skills" :upeyes:

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 16:06
Wow,...great "people skills" :upeyes:

Calling people elitist is not exactly tactiful either. It seems that you only call people out on thier poor manners if they disagree with you.
Pat

faawrenchbndr
01-02-2010, 16:11
Calling people elitist is not exactly tactiful either. It seems that you only call people out on thier poor manners if they disagree with you.
Pat

You have me there, Pat.

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 18:14
You have me there, Pat.

Its human nature. To want to back the man who you agree with. No hard feelings.

My irritation with singlestack comes from some other threads in another forum where we butted heads.
Pat

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 20:46
:couch:

alaskacop556
01-02-2010, 20:59
Some of you are right...not all of us can afford a high end AR, but there are plenty of decent quality AR's that wont break your bank...AR's that cost around the same price as a DPMS but work...

Pat is right, I have been to plenty of shooting matches and have never seen a stock DPMS work reliability but I have seen Stag's and Bushy's that run a lot better..

:deadhorse:

I keep on saying it (like a lot do) but the only company with a worse track record is Oly..

tebklr
01-02-2010, 21:18
...if Pat (Alaskapopo) is the revered Patrick Sweeney? Sure seems like there is a ton of great experience and knowledge there, but Mr. Sweeney had a different opinion of DPMS firearms in both of his AR books. Has something changed in the recent past?

Again, just curious, since I have a DPMS that has been a fine gun (for my civilian uses).

Thanks!

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 21:28
Sweeney is a gun writer.......... that doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about.

He is supposed to be a 1911 expert too...You want to read something that he said about 1911's in the "Complete book of the Model 1911"? If you know 1911's, he made himself sound very stupid.

alaskacop556
01-02-2010, 21:30
...if Pat (Alaskapopo) is the revered Patrick Sweeney? Sure seems like there is a ton of great experience and knowledge there, but Mr. Sweeney had a different opinion of DPMS firearms in both of his AR books. Has something changed in the recent past?

Again, just curious, since I have a DPMS that has been a fine gun (for my civilian uses).

Thanks!

How often do you shoot the rifle? When you take it to the range, how many rounds do you put through it and how hard are you on the gun? Before Pat and I were cops, we owned post 94 Bushy AR's. At the time we had the same opinion as most "weekend shooters", and AR is an AR. Our shooting consisted of small 5 shot groups with the occasional rapid fire mag thrown in. On a given day we would put maybe 50 rounds through the guns. Naturally we never had any real issues with the rifles and just assumed the rifles were 100% reliable. If we took those same rifles and put them through what we do today they would have probably failed us...that is the difference between a lower end AR (like DPMS) and a more expensive "mil spec" AR.

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 21:36
...if Pat (Alaskapopo) is the revered Patrick Sweeney? Sure seems like there is a ton of great experience and knowledge there, but Mr. Sweeney had a different opinion of DPMS firearms in both of his AR books. Has something changed in the recent past?

Again, just curious, since I have a DPMS that has been a fine gun (for my civilian uses).

Thanks!

No that is not me. Not a gun writer. In fact from my posts you can tell I am not the best with grammar and other required writing skills.
pat

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 21:42
No that is not me. Not a gun writer. In fact from my posts you can tell I am not the best with grammar and other required writing skills.
pat

Holy bat(stuff)!!!!

I didn't catch the part were that guy thought you were P. Sweeney!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pat, I know your dumb. But even I know your smarter than Sweeney. :tongueout:










Sorry, could not help it. Pat is a extremely knowledgeable young man. I was just being funny (trying) and couldn't help myself.
Pat, you get a free shot to my ribs when I ain't looking for blindsiding you.:wavey:

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 21:45
How often do you shoot the rifle? When you take it to the range, how many rounds do you put through it and how hard are you on the gun? Before Pat and I were cops, we owned post 94 Bushy AR's. At the time we had the same opinion as most "weekend shooters", and AR is an AR. Our shooting consisted of small 5 shot groups with the occasional rapid fire mag thrown in. On a given day we would put maybe 50 rounds through the guns. Naturally we never had any real issues with the rifles and just assumed the rifles were 100% reliable. If we took those same rifles and put them through what we do today they would have probably failed us...that is the difference between a lower end AR (like DPMS) and a more expensive "mil spec" AR.

Actually I did own a Bushy V Match for a time but my first Ar was a Colt Match Target 20 inch Ar (A2) with a 1/9 twist barrel. That thing shot great and was reliable. I then bought a 16 inch pencile barrel upper for it so I could try a carbine. Never should have sold that one. it was light and easy to carry. But it was an A2. I had a cheap Tasco propoint mounted on it for a time.

Then I got the Oly Ultramatch that turned out to be the worst gun buying choice of my life. Later I got rid of the Oly upper kept the lower and purchases a Wilson upper with an 18 inch barrel. This was during the ban still. It was an ok gun but over priced for the performance it gave. Then I became a cop and I started to get a Bushmaster Patrolman carbine but my Lt. talked me into a Colt. (before it was called the 6920) It was simply called the Colt Law Enforcment carbine. It was priced at $960 on letter head back then and the Bushy was $880. So I figured what the hell and got the Colt. It was the best decision of my life. That gun has ran and ran for me. I have right about 10 K down the barrel in it with no problems. I recently upgraded it with an Omega X12 inch rail. I sent myself to my first real rifle training. It was a class taught by Bennie Cooley. It was a week long and I fired about 1500 rounds through the gun. It ran great. Later on I got sent to a Colt Armorers training with Ken Elmore. Then I realized how easy it was to assemble Ar's and that is when the addiction started. I have assembled a lot of AR's since then. I just put the lower together with the parts I want and buy a compete upper. I am starting to think about doing uppers soon too.
Pat

tebklr
01-02-2010, 21:46
How often do you shoot the rifle? When you take it to the range, how many rounds do you put through it and how hard are you on the gun? Before Pat and I were cops, we owned post 94 Bushy AR's. At the time we had the same opinion as most "weekend shooters", and AR is an AR. Our shooting consisted of small 5 shot groups with the occasional rapid fire mag thrown in. On a given day we would put maybe 50 rounds through the guns. Naturally we never had any real issues with the rifles and just assumed the rifles were 100% reliable. If we took those same rifles and put them through what we do today they would have probably failed us...that is the difference between a lower end AR (like DPMS) and a more expensive "mil spec" AR.

You're right. My DPMS is a pile of ****....I'm a lowly "weekend shooter".

I am not a SWAT team member/ "Operator", nor am I in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Glad that your ARs are more dependable and reliable than mine since you're out there on the front lines.

Still want to know if Alaskapopo is Patrick Sweeney....

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 21:47
Holy bat(stuff)!!!!

I didn't catch the part were that guy thought you were P. Sweeney!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pat, I know your dumb. But even I know your smarter than Sweeney. :tongueout:










Sorry, could not help it. Pat is a extremely knowledgeable young man. I was just being funny (trying) and couldn't help myself.
Pat, you get a free shot to my ribs when I ain't looking for blindsiding you.:wavey:

This is embarressing but before I do a google search who is Sweeney? As a rule I don't like gun writers much mainly because they have nothing bad to say about anything. I do know Jeff Hall a NRA Law Enforcment Instructor and gun writer that I respect. I asked him why they always write good reviews. He said he doesn't but the publisher won't print the bad ones for fear of losing advertising dollars.
Pat

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 21:51
This is embarressing but before I do a google search who is Sweeney?
Pat

Idiot gun writer that writes about AR's and 1911's. Usually making a darn fool of himself while doing so. He says the most ridiculous things.

alaskacop556
01-02-2010, 21:54
You're right. My DPMS is a pile of ****....I'm a lowly "weekend shooter".

I am not a SWAT team member/ "Operator", nor am I in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Glad that your ARs are more dependable and reliable than mine since you're out there on the front lines.

Still want to know if Alaskapopo is Patrick Sweeney....


:supergrin:
Sorry that statement was taken the wrong way but I wanted to impress on you the differences it stock AR's. If you just shoot at a local range on occasion and are not into competitions or training then you should not see or have too many issues with you rifle. In my experience, the problems (with DPMS) will come out once you put the rifle through a more rigorous regiment. No, Alaskapopo is not Patrick Sweeeny...unless he has been lying to me for the past 14 years...

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 21:57
Forgot to add back when I first started shooting I believed pretty much all guns were 100% reliable. The main reason was as Alaskacop556 stated we would go to the range shoot 5 shot groups and go back home and clean our guns. Then I went to Bethel a small community in Western Alaska that is built on permfrost and fine silty sand is everywhere. Out there if you dropped your mag on the deck in the summer it would not run again until you took the magazine apart and cleaned it. When you smiled your teeth got sand blasted by the wind and sand. The sand made all guns have issues. I even had issues with an AK I owned out there. The Colt ran in those conditions while the DPMS department guns had the issues I have spoke of earlier. Alaskacop556's Bushy ran as well. The worst offenders were the magazines on the pistols. We carried Glock 21's and you could expect the first 13 rounds in the initial magazine to work. But the spare mags would barf unless the officer was on top of cleaning his mags out weekly. I am so glad to be out of that place. Blowing sand, bitter cold temperatures and the people in the community did not support the police that much mostly due to racial tensions. But that is another topic. The point being if you take good care of your guns and only use them occaisionally you will never really know how reliable your gear really is or is not.
Pat

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 21:57
If you just shoot at a local range on occasion and are not into competitions or training ....

Then a DPMS is just fine.

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 21:59
Idiot gun writer that writes about AR's and 1911's. Usually making a darn fool of himself while doing so. He says the most ridiculous things.

Got it. I pretty much only buy gun magazines now when I have to wait for a flight at the airport and then only to look at the pretty pictures. I have found gun magazines to be worse for dis information than the internet and that is bad.
Pat

HAIL CAESAR
01-02-2010, 22:02
Got it. I pretty much only buy gun magazines now when I have to wait for a flight at the airport and then only to look at the pretty pictures. I have found gun magazines to be worse for dis information than the internet and that is bad.
Pat
Me too.

Sorry about the jab. It was just to good to let go away. I didn't mean it.

I did mean the below part though. You keep shooting..your going to know something one of these days.:whistling:

:rofl::tongueout: Sorry, I have to quit. Just having fun. These threads kill me.

Alaskapopo
01-02-2010, 22:08
Me too.

Sorry about the jab. It was just to good to let go away. I didn't mean it.

I did mean the below part though. You keep shooting..your going to know something one of these days.:whistling:

:rofl::tongueout: Sorry, I have to quit. Just having fun. These threads kill me.

Yea these threads are fun. No offense taken to any of the good natured humor.
Pat

jobob
01-03-2010, 02:48
Do you Alaskans have anything to do in the winter other than hang out on the forums (like I should talk, huh)? I was over on Arfcom and there was a poster that sounded vaguely familiar. Went by another moniker, but name was Pat and from Alaska. Now, I know there must be one or two other Pats in all of Alaska, but the similarities are just spooky!

My New Year's resolution is to have a round count as high as your post count! Ha! :rofl:

bambikilr
01-03-2010, 23:16
so will a quality bcg, bring a mid tier rifle up to high tier? or just make it a better mid tier...had a DPMS, over 5K "fun" rounds through it no prob, sold it to a co-worker, i needed some cash, so should i buy it back & replace, or build a lower & go with a complete upper, CMMG, Stag, Bravo...which i know Pat really likes, any out there as reliable...oh yeah, would like to take some tacticle courses some day...thank you all

faawrenchbndr
01-04-2010, 05:34
Stag and BCm are great quality for the money.
As stated before, only a few hundred dollars sepertate a mid level
and a tier 1 weapon.

shineybore
01-04-2010, 06:35
Ok, I'll be the first to tell you that I believe everything I see and read on the internet. With this in mind. I have found a video that shows the true reliability of a DPMS. If anyone has any doubts that DPMS is not reliable, just listen to this guy's review.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBGo0MJNCI&feature=related


To get a good laugh, fast forward to 3:20 and listen to the round count and number of failures. This guy has a cherry.

P.S I'm only kidding about the first sentence. Enjoy.............

45reloader
01-04-2010, 07:36
To get a good laugh, fast forward to 3:20 and listen to the round count and number of failures.
I'm glad to see he's a GT'er

K. Foster
01-04-2010, 16:00
To you guys that have DPMS (or other not so well thought of brands) that run right and you are happy with, I’m happy for you. I say good for you, rock on and enjoy your gun.
However, if you are buying a DPMS with the belief that all AR’s are equal and that it will be as good as a Colt, I hope you're not disappointed.

tebklr
01-04-2010, 18:39
Ok, I'll be the first to tell you that I believe everything I see and read on the internet. With this in mind. I have found a video that shows the true reliability of a DPMS. If anyone has any doubts that DPMS is not reliable, just listen to this guy's review.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBGo0MJNCI&feature=related


To get a good laugh, fast forward to 3:20 and listen to the round count and number of failures. This guy has a cherry.

P.S I'm only kidding about the first sentence. Enjoy.............


Man, oh man! Too painful to watch for more than about 30 seconds.

MySiK26
01-04-2010, 20:05
NO donuts!

RMTactical
01-04-2010, 20:07
They make good stripped lowers. :supergrin:

DenaliPark
01-04-2010, 20:56
Calling people elitist is not exactly tactiful either. It seems that you only call people out on thier poor manners if they disagree with you.
Pat

Tact? :faint: You may well be the most grandiose screenname on the entire GT forum, tact? :rofl: Perhaps you meant "tacked!":rofl:

Alaskapopo
01-04-2010, 21:10
Tact? :faint: You may well be the most grandiose screenname on the entire GT forum, tact? :rofl: Perhaps you meant "tacked!":rofl:

And the Troll came out from under the bridge. http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Humor/do_not_feed_trolls.jpg

bambikilr
01-04-2010, 21:38
faawrenchbndr,
thanks for the reply, i've seen that a few hundred makes the difference, isn't a high quality bcg & charging handle almost 200, so again, would that make it that much better, & again, should i buy mine back or build a lower & buy a complete upper, was hoping Pat (alaskapopo) would respond as well to my question.
thank you again!

NeverMore1701
01-04-2010, 21:40
Oh jesus, Denali's parents let him back on the computer! Run!