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B Coyote
12-26-2009, 18:47
This is a review I wrote at AR15Armory.com....but felt it might be enjoyed here. bc


Details, Details, Details:
The Remington 870 has been the quintessential law enforcement shotgun for the last several decades. Find a police vehicle with a shotgun inside, and there's a good chance that shotgun will be a Remington 870. It's been available in a variety of configurations with stock, barrel and finish options to suit the user (or at least the purchaser). All 870's have double action bars for reliability in operation.
The 870 has a very large, side-ejection port which I like very much. The magazine follower is a bright orange and provides a VERY visual indication of an unloaded magazine tube. The safety is a cross-bolt behind the trigger and action release lever is forward of the trigger. All current Remington Police shotguns wear their very effective R3 recoil pad. All 870P's are chambered for the 12 gauge 3" shell (though most users stay with the 2 3/4" round).

I've chosen a near-clone of the gun that's kept in the police cruiser I usually drive as a Reserve Police Officer, for personal use (I wanted a wood stock on my gun and the department uses synthetic). My reason for devoting so much time to the scattergun is simple. It's the weapon I will go to on the street, and my shotgun-fu was VERY weak. Over the past few years I'd spent so much time on the handgun and the carbine, I'd nearly forgotten the shotgun (except to clean it monthly). Faced with being limited on duty, I decided to take the leap and learn what I'd been presented to the best of my ability.

My 870P wears the traditional walnut stock and forearm and parkerized finish. It has rifle sights on an 18.5" Improved Cylinder barrel and a capacity of 6+1 using 2 3/4" shells. This picture is not mine, but my gun is identical.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870p003.jpg

Police vs. Express:
There are several very important differences between the commonly found Express models and the higher-end Police shotguns. They can be found at the following link.
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/...sPol6-30-05.pdf (http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/articles/870ExpvsPol6-30-05.pdf)

Patterning, 00 and #4 Buckshot:
I patterned my gun at three, five, seven, ten, fifteen, twenty, and twenty-five yards with Winchester Ranger Low Recoil 00 Buckshot (RA12005). The target used was an IDPA competition target. At three to ten yards, all pellets stayed in the "-0" zone. At 20 yards, all pellets stayed inside the "-1" zone of the target. At 25 yards several of the nine pellets wandered into the "-3" zone. I was very pleased. I'll repeat this test again and take pics when the weather gets halfway decent and I get a day to head to the range. This particular load is my favorite general purpose load. If I were limited to one type of shell for my shotgun, this would be the one I'd take. Thirty rounds of Ranger Low Recoil 00 is what's in my go bag (more on this later).
This round has a bright red hull.

Since I'm not limited to one load, I choose a different round for home defense. The 870P's tube is filled with Federal Tactical Low Recoil #4 Buckshot(LE1324B) for home defense. Considering my apartment living arrangement, and the direction and proximity of my immediate neighbors, I've gone with the smaller pellet #4 load for safety reasons. I patterned my gun at five and ten yards. At both distances all pellets stayed inside the "-1" zone of the IDPA target. Considering my living conditions, this is perfect for what I want it to do. I feel it's the best balance of performance in target and lack of barrier penetration. This round has a dark red hull. Be aware, as it has been discontinued by Federal, this load can be fairly difficult to find if you attempt to buy some. I have a very limited supply myself, and have had much difficulty finding replacements for what I've shot. I'm presently scouring the internet and local shops, but have thus far been unsuccessful in finding more. When my supply is depleted I'll switch to the Ranger 00 exclusively, but I won't be happy about that change.

Slug accuracy:
My chosen slug load is the brand mate to the 00 Buck. Winchester Ranger Low Recoil, 1oz.(RA12RS15). I shot this off the bench at 25 yards. All slugs stayed in the "-0" zone of the IDPA target. For fun, I also shot a few rounds at the target's head box at the 15 yard line unsupported. Head shots were easily accomplished. I keep 18 rounds of this load in my go bag. Something I think is great; this round has a medium grey hull (visually different than the red hull of the buckshot load).

Below are a couple pics of the shells and their boxes. Take note of how Winchester crimps and seals their buckshot load. I REALLY like this feature. The Federal shells will occasionally leak their shot buffer if they're not rotated out frequently (every six months at max). Subsequent research post writing this review has led me to the cause of this issue. Winchester makes their hulls out of a stiffer plastic to prevent warping or bulging in the magazine tube under spring tension. Federal's shells leak buffer because they're, literally, uncrimping inside the tube. That explains a LOT of what I've observed over the last few years.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag011.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag010.jpg


Dislikes:
Nothing is perfect. There are a few things about this gun I really don't like. Are they easily correctable? Yes. I choose not to do so things are the same across the board from work to home. Here's my short list...
-LOP!! The length of pull on this gun is a full sized 14". That's fine if you're in a duck blind or trap shooting with the Fudd's at the gunclub. Put body armor on and things suddenly don't fit right anymore. Fighting shotguns should come with 12" LOP stocks.
-Small-head safety. This is a pet peeve. While the safety is easy enough to find under normal conditions, if you add stress or gloves it's not such a simple task. A larger button on the safety would be a vast improvement.
-Rotating front sling stud. This is minor, but the front sling stud on my gun rotates. I'd prefer a fixed unit, to keep the sling from twisting around.
-Sights. While not a dislike, I think they could be better. The rifle sights as issued on the gun are fine, with a white triangle in the rear and a fairly small post with a white face on the front. That said, XS Sight Systems makes a tritium Express set for the 870 that would VASTLY improve on the 870's functionality as a close combat tool.

MY 870P and why I like a KISS shotgun.
My previous shotgun (a Mossberg 590A1) was loaded with tacticool goodies. I think I found about every way I could to modify it from the factory configuration. Dedicated forearm light, side saddle, shortened stock, ghost ring sights, adjustable choke...I did it all. It was heavy, slow, and stuff caught on everything. While the gun had a very high "cool factor", it never really made me happy with the way it felt. Sure, it had all the whizbang gadgets that make a gun look awesome in a youtube video, but when it came time to actually put the gun to use in training I was underwhelmed by the way it swung, came to the shoulder, and generally how it handled (the thing weighed a TON).

When I got this Remington, I promised myself I was going to keep it simple and exactly like my cruiser gun. I wanted clean and fast handling rather than sluggish with tacticool goodies. My first trip to the range simply reinforced what I already knew: KISS is best. The 870P swings from target to target with ease, is fast from ready to the shoulder, and doesn't have a bunch of crap on it affecting what is the best balance I've ever seen on a riot-type shotgun.

All of this brings the question "Well if you don't have a side saddle, where do you keep ammo?" That brings me to the next part of my thread title, the Sneaky Bag.

bc

Showing the "Police Magnum" marking. Also visible at the front of the trigger guard is the action release lever.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag009.jpg


The rear rifle sight.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag007.jpg

B Coyote
12-26-2009, 18:49
The Details are in the Bag:

Sneaky Bags (http://www.originalsneakybags.com/Mini_Sneaky_Bags.html)

I'm a big fan of the "Go Bag" idea. The premise is simple: have a shoulder bag of ammo and a few other important items next to your gun and ready to go. It's not a new idea, either. Take a look back into history to the days of the musket. "Possibles bags" were a necessity. Usually the gun and bag were stored together as a unit, so when a person grabbed one, the other was there. This is the approach I take with my shotgun, on and off duty. Bag and gun are stored together. Rather than weigh my gun down and trash it's handling capabilities for just a few shells, I've got a much larger quantity of ammo there with the gun, and a couple other dangerous goodies, too.

I first found out about the Sneaky Bags Mini Sneaky Bag through Gabe Suarez's "Shotgun Gunfighting" DVD. Clicky. I thought about it, really liked the idea, so I ordered a bag for myself.

This bag is a very handy size to live up to it's name of being sneaky. It looks like a small camera bag or a tool bag. I chose the grey bag with black trim specifically to avoid the ninja/operator "tacticool" colors of solid black, coyote, foliage, or olive green. Note the removable padded shoulder strap. Not pictured is the leg strap on the rear bottom, and the document pouch on the back. There's also a handy grab handle on the top at the junction of the flap and back (you can kind of see it in this pic).
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag001.jpg

Here's a view from the top. I didn't do a great job of getting all of the main compartment in the pic, but I assure you it's there and has a few rounds of 00 Buckshot inside at the bottom, as well as the slugs in their loops (they're visible). The front compartment has a flap to cover it, but I left it open and tucked into the center compartment. I wanted access to my G22 mags and might just get an American Flag or morale patch for the exposed velcro there.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag002.jpg

Here's a view of the side. The bag has loops (molle, pals, whatever) for mounting goodies on both sides, so I added my Benchmade Nimravus to the side that would face rear when I wear the bag (the bag's left). I like having a fixed blade knife, and this is a good way to keep one handy. This particular knife was a very nice gift from my good friend Jeff.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag003.jpg

Here's a view of the bag's right side. I put a Surefire G2 here. A flashlight is another handy item to have around. This particular one was free and just lying around collecting dust. It fits perfectly through the loops...enough tension to get it out without a struggle, but enough to hold it in place through some fairly vigorous activity.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag004.jpg

Here's a pic of the contents of the bag. There are three extra Glock 22 mags that fit perfectly in the bag's front-most compartment. The Cav Arms Personal Trauma Kit was ordered with the bag from One Source Tactical. This or a similar kit is a MUST in any Go Bag. There's also a couple extra batteries for the G2.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag005.jpg

Criticisms:
I LOVE this bag overall. I regret not buying one sooner. It's really an overall great purchase that I find myself liking more each time I practice with it. I'm very eager to get out to a tactical shotgun match in the spring with my Sneaky Bag. While I won't likely finish with the guys who use game gear, I have no doubt I'll turn a few heads with my bag. That said, I do have a couple of small criticisms of the bag (and both of them are really just me being me more than a problem with the bag itself).

-Cost!! This bag was $107 and the shotgun shell loops were another $25. (The bag comes with a pouch to hold a couple rifle magazines so the decision to make this into a shotgun bag was 100% at my expense.) Had my wife not agreed to this project before our baby was born, and had I not had a large chunk of income from a gun sale, she'd have beat me to death with it when she saw the invoice. I recognize that buying American is sometimes expensive. In fact, being American-made was a huge factor in buying this bag. I do honestly feel that cost could prevent some from having a Sneaky Bag. That said, this bag oozes quality. The stitching is perfect, and you can feel the durability when you pick the bag up for the first time. This bag is HEAVY DUTY! I'll have no qualms about taking this bag into an unhappy social occasion, either personal or on duty.

-The main compartment could be a LITTLE bigger. This means exactly what it says. If the main compartment were even a quarter inch roomier, it'd make getting stuff (read buckshot) out of the bottom that much easier when the middle compartment is filled with a PTK and a couple spare batteries.

bc

Update: This posting has turned into a work in progress, the most up to date version can be found at http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Remington-870P-Sneaky-Ba-t70452.html#entry911617. Thanks, bc

B Coyote
12-26-2009, 18:51
GT limits the amount of pics I can post to five per post. The following pic was in the first part of the review, and shows the front rifle sight.

bc

The front rifle sight.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/870PandSneakyBag008.jpg

OVERTHEHILLGUY
12-26-2009, 19:00
Very nice review! NICE PHOTOS. Thank you. OVERTHEHILLGUY

B Coyote
12-26-2009, 19:12
Thank you. I appreciate the compliment.

When I get a day when the weather cooperates, I'll head back out to the range and repeat my patterning for photos and add them at AR15Armory.com and here.

bc

silversport
12-26-2009, 19:17
thank you for taking the time and making this review...I want a sneaky bag...
Bill

Mr. S
12-28-2009, 17:02
Nice review.
I like the sneaky bag alot and I may be ordering one.

B Coyote
02-07-2010, 23:14
As promised, I did some patterning and took pics. They'll be on page 2:

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Remington-870P-Sneaky-Ba-t70452.html

bc

mixflip
02-08-2010, 00:15
I freakin love the old school wood furniture on a combat shotgun. It just looks badazz!

Sweet17
02-08-2010, 04:53
Super review :cool:. The 870 Police Mag is quite possibly the ultimate KISS shotgun. I have been searching for a nice one on the used racks and at gun shows to no avail. I guess the new route is the only sure thing. Found one at a show yesterday. Not new by any means, unless you include the price. Nearly $500 used! Not this dude. You have a dandy weapon there,enjoy.

Ljay
02-08-2010, 06:31
I freakin love the old school wood furniture on a combat shotgun. It just looks badazz!

+1 Wood works for me too, I don't like the black synthetic on the remys
the flat stain they use is very nice looking,

I have an 11-87 special purpose coming in a week with the good wood on it.

22highcaps
02-08-2010, 19:44
I recommend the Vang Comp big head safety. I never used the safety on my 870P until I got one.

B Coyote
02-08-2010, 19:47
I recommend the Vang Comp big head safety. I never used the safety on my 870P until I got one.

I'm used to the smaller safety now. I'd like the larger one, but won't change (unless I leave my current department or they install the larger button on the agency guns).

bc

B Coyote
02-08-2010, 19:56
Super review :cool:. The 870 Police Mag is quite possibly the ultimate KISS shotgun. I have been searching for a nice one on the used racks and at gun shows to no avail. I guess the new route is the only sure thing. Found one at a show yesterday. Not new by any means, unless you include the price. Nearly $500 used! Not this dude. You have a dandy weapon there,enjoy.

Thanks for the compliment.

I looked around used, fully willing to go that route, but couldn't find one like I wanted. When I found this one, I jumped on it.

bc

B Coyote
02-08-2010, 19:57
I freakin love the old school wood furniture on a combat shotgun. It just looks badazz!

I got lucky with this gun. The one on the wall was synthetic, but when they pulled my gun out of the back, it had wood. You see the decision I made.

bc

Whazoo
02-08-2010, 20:17
I recommend the Vang Comp big head safety. I never used the safety on my 870P until I got one.

wondering if this is necessary - being sporting arms (non-MILSPEC) almost none of the shotguns are drop safe - (except the Mossberg & Saiga) - so carry mode is cruiser ready (empty chamber hammer dropped) - when the gun comes to shoulder, the slide is racked and safety stays off..., threat goes away and shotgun is returned to cruiser ready...

David Armstrong
02-09-2010, 10:47
It was heavy, slow, and stuff caught on everything. While the gun had a very high "cool factor", it never really made me happy with the way it felt. Sure, it had all the whizbang gadgets that make a gun look awesome in a youtube video, but when it came time to actually put the gun to use in training I was underwhelmed by the way it swung, came to the shoulder, and generally how it handled (the thing weighed a TON).

That has been my experience both as a student and as a shotgun trainer. Lots of added doo-dads look cool, but it seems the folks who always did the best on actual shooting tests used very simple, low-tech guns, particularly when it involved moving through areas.
One trick I have found to be very helpful is a little two-round holder from Safariland http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=080-12 that clips on the belt. I put a velco piece on it and my stock so the holder stays with the gun while in storage, but when I grab the shotgun I can easily grab the holder and slip it on the belt. This gives me two quick rounds for reload if needed, or as I use it I keep two slugs in to facilitate a select slug drill instead of having to dig in the pouch.

Special Reserve
02-09-2010, 12:21
good stuff!

B Coyote
02-09-2010, 12:54
That has been my experience both as a student and as a shotgun trainer. Lots of added doo-dads look cool, but it seems the folks who always did the best on actual shooting tests used very simple, low-tech guns, particularly when it involved moving through areas.
>>This is part of the reason for my switch. Even at the local clubs' "tactical shotgun" matches, the gun underwhelmed. In setting up several very basic drills, there's no comparison between the two...the KISS gun wins every time.

One trick I have found to be very helpful is a little two-round holder from Safariland http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=080-12 that clips on the belt. I put a velco piece on it and my stock so the holder stays with the gun while in storage, but when I grab the shotgun I can easily grab the holder and slip it on the belt. This gives me two quick rounds for reload if needed, or as I use it I keep two slugs in to facilitate a select slug drill instead of having to dig in the pouch.
>>That's interesting. I'll have to acquire one and work it into my practice routine.

BTW--Your blog is excellent. I've read a few things there and will read a few more when I go back to work tonight.
bc


My comment in red.

B Coyote
02-09-2010, 23:57
Five yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning001.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning001.jpg)

Seven yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning002.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning002.jpg)

Ten yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning003.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning003.jpg)

15 yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning004.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning004.jpg)

20 yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning005.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning005.jpg)

bc

B Coyote
02-10-2010, 00:02
Slugs:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning006.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning006.jpg)

Ooops. Pulled the first one to the right to just outside of the -0. That was my fault and I called it as soon as I did it.

A pic of the target and range:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning007.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning007.jpg)

Lastly: a pic of me, the gun, and the bag.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_870PPatterning010.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=870PPatterning010.jpg)

bc

Chainsaw33
02-10-2010, 02:08
Great review! Thanks!!!

David Armstrong
02-10-2010, 13:56
BTW--Your blog is excellent. I've read a few things there and will read a few more when I go back to work tonight.
bc
Thanks! It's fairly new, and I'm always on the hunt for suggestions and input, particularly from those who would like to write an article of their own on a relevant issue.

billyblooshoes
02-10-2010, 16:32
nice writeup i enjoyed it. also about the sneaky bag...where did you order it from? also, are there any "get out" bags like that one that are more suitable to a pistol/AR/carbine type setup. ie, has mag pouches for AR mags inside/outside it instead of loops for shotgun ammo.

22highcaps
02-10-2010, 20:47
wondering if this is necessary - being sporting arms (non-MILSPEC) almost none of the shotguns are drop safe - (except the Mossberg & Saiga) - so carry mode is cruiser ready (empty chamber hammer dropped) - when the gun comes to shoulder, the slide is racked and safety stays off..., threat goes away and shotgun is returned to cruiser ready...

You are absolutely right in that most shotgun safeties only block the trigger and not the sear. I put the VC BHS on my 870P in because I figured they would teach use of the safety at a shotgun course.

BlackbirdSR-71
02-10-2010, 21:01
Very nice writeup

B Coyote
02-10-2010, 22:17
nice writeup i enjoyed it. also about the sneaky bag...where did you order it from? also, are there any "get out" bags like that one that are more suitable to a pistol/AR/carbine type setup. ie, has mag pouches for AR mags inside/outside it instead of loops for shotgun ammo.

The bag was purchased at www.onesourcetactical.com. It comes with rifle magazine pouches.

bc

trob
02-10-2010, 22:38
Thanks for taking the time to do that writeup. was a good read

B Coyote
06-07-2010, 15:21
Since it was time to rotate out the old #4 rounds for fresh, I decided to take the camera along for a couple pics of the patterns. I've searched high and low for replacements, but simply cannot find any. When this stuff is gone, I'll switch to the Ranger 00 Low Recoil that I use for everything else.

First at 5 yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_4Bpatterning5yrdsfirst.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=4Bpatterning5yrdsfirst.jpg)
Notice that I held slightly high, and a couple pellets left the -0 zone. Had I held slightly lower, they'd have all stayed in.

Next, at 10 yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_4Bpatterning10yrds.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=4Bpatterning10yrds.jpg)
Here I had two stray pellets. One wandered out of the pattern and into the -3 area to the right, and one dropped low toward the bottom of the -1. The other 25 pellets grouped nicely.

Another at 5 yards:
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/th_4Bpatterning5yrdssecond.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb71/arvg1/?action=view&current=4Bpatterning5yrdssecond.jpg)
For grins and giggles, I went back to the five yard line and fired another. This patterned perfectly.

bc

Troy106
06-07-2010, 16:20
+1 great write up

team9x19
06-07-2010, 16:29
have you had a chance to get your hands on the winchester pdx-1 home defense ammo?
i'm using that now in my 870.

B Coyote
06-07-2010, 16:48
have you had a chance to get your hands on the winchester pdx-1 home defense ammo?
i'm using that now in my 870.

I have not tested it for myself....it's abnormally expensive and I have not seen it locally.

bc

bsg1
06-15-2010, 19:26
thanks for the review. very handsome looking shotgun as well.

Troy106
06-15-2010, 22:40
This is a very good thread with lots of info, thanks for the write ups

DHart
06-22-2010, 01:10
Excellent review, Coyote! I'm a major fan of the "old school" style pump shotgun... walnut furniture and bluing (although park is nice too!). I dislike a shotgun laden with a ton of stuff as well. For me, a good sling and a very small weapon light (like a TLR-1) are all a fighting shotgun needs. And great to hear about the Sneaky Bag, too. Great idea!

I agree the 20" 590 is a wonderful gun (I love my 18.5" 500 better*), but you're right the 20" barrel with all those shells in the mag tube, heat shield, bayonet lug makes for a relatively front heavy, long, less-wieldy shotgun. Especially if you pile on even more stuff like shell holder, large format weapon light unit, etc.

I like the stripped-down 18"ers the best myself. (My 590 is quietly fuming in the safe as I say this.)

B Coyote
06-23-2010, 03:31
Excellent review, Coyote! I'm a major fan of the "old school" style pump shotgun... walnut furniture and bluing (although park is nice too!). I dislike a shotgun laden with a ton of stuff as well. For me, a good sling and a very small weapon light (like a TLR-1) are all a fighting shotgun needs. And great to hear about the Sneaky Bag, too. Great idea!

I agree the 20" 590 is a wonderful gun (I love my 18.5" 500 better*), but you're right the 20" barrel with all those shells in the mag tube, heat shield, bayonet lug makes for a relatively front heavy, long, less-wieldy shotgun. Especially if you pile on even more stuff like shell holder, large format weapon light unit, etc.

I like the stripped-down 18"ers the best myself. (My 590 is quietly fuming in the safe as I say this.)
Thank you for the compliment. I agree that blue/walnut looks good...but this is strictly a utility gun. Parkerizing is the only way to go, IMO.

I'm playing with adding a TLR-1 to my gun, even though my agency gun does not have one. I'm just deciding which mounting route I want to take. IMO, Surefire's dedicated forearms are the best way to mount a light, but they're just so pricey and the money simply isn't available.

bc

DHart
06-23-2010, 04:23
bc... Honestly, I'm not much of a fan of the Surefire forearm. Surefire makes great quality products, generally, but I've read some complaints about the forearms and they're so bulky, expensive, and limited in applicability. I don't think they're that great of a choice for most folks.

The Streamlight TLR-1 can be moved from a pistol to a shotgun in a few seconds. Provides a superb, artifact-free beam; excellent user interface; neutral to ever-so-slightly-warm tint; quite bright with a good intense central spot giving way through a very smooth and even transition from the spot to a wide, and very bright spill area. I'm a bit of a flashaholic with a lot of great lights (including Surefires) and this TLR-1 really impresses me.

The TLR-1 at around $105 is the best weapon light going, in my view. It's as useful on a pistol as on a shotgun. At the moment it's on my G21SF, but will move to a shotgun in a few seconds.

And for attachment to a shotgun, all that's needed is a small bracket with a short picatiny strip. Scott at cdmgear.com provides some great solutions for this at moderate prices. Check out his BMT and MT. And if you already have a great 1" diameter light, consider his Mod-C.

http://www.cdmgear.com

As for the finish, yes, parked is more durable, great finish for a utility application for sure. But I'm easy on my guns, so the more beautiful blued finish works for me. ;) Either is a great choice!

Great gun and bag ya got there, buddy!


Thank you for the compliment. I agree that blue/walnut looks good...but this is strictly a utility gun. Parkerizing is the only way to go, IMO.

I'm playing with adding a TLR-1 to my gun, even though my agency gun does not have one. I'm just deciding which mounting route I want to take. IMO, Surefire's dedicated forearms are the best way to mount a light, but they're just so pricey and the money simply isn't available.

bc

B Coyote
06-23-2010, 23:36
bc... Honestly, I'm not much of a fan of the Surefire forearm. Surefire makes great quality products, generally, but I've read some complaints about the forearms and they're so bulky, expensive, and limited in applicability. I don't think they're that great of a choice for most folks.
>>I had the Surefire forearm in my previous M590. It was a good light but I agree, that it was kinda bulky. I never had a single issue with the light's function, however. Cost is the biggest issue with this product, IMO.

The Streamlight TLR-1 can be moved from a pistol to a shotgun in a few seconds. Provides a superb, artifact-free beam; excellent user interface; neutral to ever-so-slightly-warm tint; quite bright with a good intense central spot giving way through a very smooth and even transition from the spot to a wide, and very bright spill area. I'm a bit of a flashaholic with a lot of great lights (including Surefires) and this TLR-1 really impresses me.

The TLR-1 at around $105 is the best weapon light going, in my view. It's as useful on a pistol as on a shotgun. At the moment it's on my G21SF, but will move to a shotgun in a few seconds.
>>I'm in 100% agreement. I've carried a TLR-1 on duty for several years now and used one on my nightstand gun before that. I've compared it to the Surefire lights, as well as the Procyon, and it did just as well or better in my own unscientific on-the-range tests. Literally thousands of rounds downrange with a mounted TLR-1 on both 9mm's and .40's with zero issues. I did spring for an updated C4 model recently, and put the older light on my practice pistol. My thought is to get a TLR-1S for my duty pistol, and put the C4 light on my 870. Eh...it's all thought process at the moment.

And for attachment to a shotgun, all that's needed is a small bracket with a short picatiny strip. Scott at cdmgear.com provides some great solutions for this at moderate prices. Check out his BMT and MT. And if you already have a great 1" diameter light, consider his Mod-C.

http://www.cdmgear.com
>>Thanks for the head's up on this mount!

As for the finish, yes, parked is more durable, great finish for a utility application for sure. But I'm easy on my guns, so the more beautiful blued finish works for me. ;) Either is a great choice!
>>I don't baby my guns. I treat them well, but scratches and dings are all character. I love how a blue/walnut gun looks, but I gotta go for the tougher finish. My concession to looks is a walnut stock, however. ;)

Great gun and bag ya got there, buddy!
>>Thanks. They've both been excellent and made a very difficult to please person happy.
bc


My comments in red. :)

bc

Shepherds_Hook_47
04-21-2011, 15:41
awww.... sneaky bag is no more....

what happened to them?

B Coyote
04-21-2011, 17:00
I don't know....they're just not there anymore. Which is sad, they made a good product.

bc

Shepherds_Hook_47
04-23-2011, 13:52
yeah they are just poof gone....

That stinks... Well I here that http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ is trying to find someone to make their bags again....

hoosier#17
04-24-2011, 06:29
Nice looking shotty!

DFin
04-24-2011, 09:54
I have about 25 rounds in a reproduced Civil War black leather over the shoulder cartridge box carrier. It was made to carry a tin box with 40 holes in it for 40 paper .58 cal cartridges. Mine does not have the tin box.
Not exactly state of the art but it does have an external flap with a brass grommet fastener that is quick to release and an internal flap that folds over the rounds that may or may not stop s-gun shells from bouncing out.

Truckee
04-25-2011, 23:00
BC,
Unsure how I've missed your post for 16 months! Nice 870 and review, thanks.

I wanted a trunk bag to support the long guns that might be deployed. The criteria was a small but, capable bag that one could shoulder in a hurry. A few years ago, and post a lot of looking and reading, I chose the Sneaky Mini. The Maxpedition bags got a serious twice over but, they just never seemed to fit the nitch. Max either did too much or just not enough. And when running or rolling around, the Max didn't do.

My Sneaky is primary support to the carbine. I also added the shell carrier to service the 870 in the event the SG came out of the trunk. Like you, three Glock mags in the med pouch. I run the deluxe shoulder strap chiefly because I didn't like the OEM sleeve pad sliding around. Removing the sleeve pad, the strap dug my shoulder a bit, so I went deluxe.

I attached an off brand end pouch to the Molle. This pouch carries a med kit, knife and flashlight. I throw a bottle of water and power bars in the dump pouch; these can relocate to a pocket if necessary.

One thing I do with the bag flap is to fold it over the back, toward my belt, before securing the waist strap. This gets the flap out of my way. I've trained pretty hard that way and have rarely lost bag contents. A couple of times, an empty mag has slipped out of the dump. But, that has occurred during a lot of rolling around.

I share your minor criticisms of the main pouch (more so since the addition of the shell carrier), and of the cost. The Sneaky is exxxpensive to say the least. Especially with my two accessories adding $60 after shipping... likely why it's gone from One Source, slow sales. Sad as the Mini is great for what I need it to do.

Is someone going to email One Source and ask where the Sneaky snuck off to?

Big_Grumpy
04-27-2011, 16:53
The stock 870P's are a thing of beauty, and chances are even if they're "ugly"; i.e., "beat up", the things will outrun your grand kids. IMO, K.I.S.S. is all about Remington 870 shotguns.

It's relatively easy to add doo-dads to one's preference, but I agree, don't go overboard. You'd like them as mobile and deployable as possible if you're using it for defense.

BTW, B Coyote, I hope you OILED that park. Sure looks thirsty in those pics. :supergrin:

B Coyote
04-28-2011, 05:14
It's dry for the pictures.

bc

jamaicanj
04-28-2011, 13:33
Great review. Thanks for sharing.

Good looking bag that is not screaming "gunstuff"

B Coyote
04-29-2011, 05:41
Great review. Thanks for sharing.

Good looking bag that is not screaming "gunstuff"

That's why I like it.

bc

B Coyote
04-29-2011, 05:46
BC,
Unsure how I've missed your post for 16 months! Nice 870 and review, thanks.
>>Thanks for the compliment.

I wanted a trunk bag to support the long guns that might be deployed. The criteria was a small but, capable bag that one could shoulder in a hurry. A few years ago, and post a lot of looking and reading, I chose the Sneaky Mini. The Maxpedition bags got a serious twice over but, they just never seemed to fit the nitch. Max either did too much or just not enough. And when running or rolling around, the Max didn't do.
>>I have a Maxpedition bag set up for rifle mags and I'm not happy with it at all. The mags ride on the outside of the bag and really throw it off balance. I took a trip recently and converted my Mini over to rifle mags, and couldn't have been happier. I wish I'd ordered more while they were still in business.

My Sneaky is primary support to the carbine. I also added the shell carrier to service the 870 in the event the SG came out of the trunk. Like you, three Glock mags in the med pouch. I run the deluxe shoulder strap chiefly because I didn't like the OEM sleeve pad sliding around. Removing the sleeve pad, the strap dug my shoulder a bit, so I went deluxe.
>>I wasn't aware there was a different shoulder strap. Can you post a pic?

I attached an off brand end pouch to the Molle. This pouch carries a med kit, knife and flashlight. I throw a bottle of water and power bars in the dump pouch; these can relocate to a pocket if necessary.
>>Hmmm....That's a great idea.

One thing I do with the bag flap is to fold it over the back, toward my belt, before securing the waist strap. This gets the flap out of my way. I've trained pretty hard that way and have rarely lost bag contents. A couple of times, an empty mag has slipped out of the dump. But, that has occurred during a lot of rolling around.
>>I do the same thing. When the bag is deployed, the flap gets tucked. I've never lost shells, but I haven't done much rolling around with the bag.

I share your minor criticisms of the main pouch (more so since the addition of the shell carrier), and of the cost. The Sneaky is exxxpensive to say the least. Especially with my two accessories adding $60 after shipping... likely why it's gone from One Source, slow sales. Sad as the Mini is great for what I need it to do.

Is someone going to email One Source and ask where the Sneaky snuck off to?
>>I'm told they're out of business all together.

bc

My comments in red. :)

Truckee
04-29-2011, 11:39
shoulder strap and out of business
BC, if you'll look at this bag strap, they are similar.
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/hsgi-teatool-equipment-accessoriesbag.aspx
The Sneaky strap is curved to contour your neck. The pad is a bit wider, more padding, and is sewn to the webbing (no slip).

The Sneaky "Deluxe Shoulder Strap" seems to have been Sneaky specific. I don't see the strap anywhere on One Source. The strap was listed with the "Sneaky Bag Accessories."

If I can figure out how to post a pic, I will do so.

Sorry that bag is gone. Maybe One Source will do something different but, the same.

Thanks again BC