870 unloading question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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southernshooter
12-29-2009, 10:18
Probably the most common way is to cycle all the shells from the mag to the chamber, then eject them out (with the safety on) I have experimented with opening the action to drop a shell out of the mag tube, then just letting it fall out of the ejection port without chambering it. Another way is to press on the side under the mag tube with the carrier pushed in-this does not seem to work very well for me. My beretta 390 is easy to unload the mag tube this way. What is your proferred method?

Jon_R
12-29-2009, 11:55
I just make sure my finger is off the trigger hold down the bolt release and cycle the action. I have lots of different pump shotguns and that method works for all of them.

Faulkner
12-29-2009, 12:22
I just make sure my finger is off the trigger hold down the bolt release and cycle the action. I have lots of different pump shotguns and that method works for all of them.

Racking them through the chamber is an unnecessary method of unloading an 870. 870's are very easy to unload the magazine just by pushing the leaf spring at the rear of the mag well and letting the rounds fall into your hand one at a time, then open the chamber and let the loaded round fall out.

As a LE firearms instructor I would remove anyone from our range who unloaded a 870 or Mossburg by racking them through the chamber.

Jon_R
12-29-2009, 12:26
Racking them through the chamber is an unnecessary method of unloading an 870. 870's are very easy to unload the magazine just by pushing the leaf spring at the rear of the mag well and letting the rounds fall into your hand one at a time, then open the chamber and let the loaded round fall out.

As a LE firearms instructor I would remove anyone from our range who unloaded a 870 or Mossburg by racking them through the chamber.

I am taking a shotgun class in March maybe we will cover that.

In our 3-Gun Competitions everyone unloads via the chamber. I am not sure I follow why it is a problem but whatever the range rules are I would follow them. :)

jmb79
12-29-2009, 14:53
Racking them through the chamber is an unnecessary method of unloading an 870. 870's are very easy to unload the magazine just by pushing the leaf spring at the rear of the mag well and letting the rounds fall into your hand one at a time, then open the chamber and let the loaded round fall out.

This is the correct way. I have taken shotgun classes from numerous prominent instructors/schools and this method is what each of them uses for unloading a Remington 870 (other than unloading via the business end of the barrel).

aippi
12-29-2009, 15:52
With the safety on and the weapon pionted down range, Rack it back slow and roll the round from the chamber into your hand. Leaving the bolt back Push the carrier up. Press the right shell latch and it releases the shell, continue till empty. this is the safe way.

I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

silversport
12-29-2009, 16:04
...and there won't be any surprise boom...
Bill

byf43
12-29-2009, 17:59
To expound on what Bill just said. . . . .

A friend of mine (May he Rest In Peace) that was a LEO, was hunting with his beloved 870.
Well, he emptied the shotgun by racking the slide, chambering each round and dumping them into his hunting jacket, laying on the ground.

He visually inspected the chamber and then put the shotgun into the case.

When he got home, he took this 870 out of the case, racked the slide one more time. He then pointed the shotgun at the side wall where he had some 1 gallon paint cans stored.
He pulled the trigger.

BOOM!!!!!

The follower had stuck with a shell, quite a ways up, inside the magazine tube and was dislodged (apparently) on the trip home, in the trunk of that old Malibu.

Moral to the story. . . .
1. Unload your shotgun properly.
2. Check, then double-check that firearm is empty.
3. Verify with eyes and fingers.
(If my friend had checked to see that the follower was not against the shell stop, he wouldn't have painted his wife's car a light pink and ceiling white!!!!!!!

AKJD
12-29-2009, 18:21
With the safety on and the weapon pionted down range, Rack it back slow and roll the round from the chamber into your hand. Leaving the bolt back Push the carrier up. Press the right shell latch and it releases the shell, continue till empty. this is the safe way.

I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

I'll add that if you had one in the chamber and rounds in the magazine, you also need to remove from the ejection port the round that is on the carrier in addition to the round that was in the chamber. Pulling back on the forearm loads a round on to the carrier after extracting the one that was in the chamber. Always, always, always remember to remove 2 rounds from the ejection port, then unload the magazine with the forearm to the rear. Then visually and/or manually check the chamber and magazine for any rounds.

If you go to a professional LE type class and unload by racking them through the chamber you will not make a good impression.

22highcaps
12-29-2009, 18:52
With the safety on and the weapon pionted down range, Rack it back slow and roll the round from the chamber into your hand. Leaving the bolt back Push the carrier up. Press the right shell latch and it releases the shell, continue till empty. this is the safe way.

I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

My method is some what similar except that I push the carrier up while opening the action to get the first round out without it getting on the carrier.

Jon_R
12-29-2009, 19:11
With the safety on and the weapon pionted down range, Rack it back slow and roll the round from the chamber into your hand. Leaving the bolt back Push the carrier up. Press the right shell latch and it releases the shell, continue till empty. this is the safe way.

I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

I look forward to my CQB Shotgun class. I am not sure if I will shoot the 590 or 870 but 300 rounds in a one day class should be exciting and tiring. Hopefully they will cover this.

guitarguy69
12-29-2009, 22:00
So,.... instead of showing them a better way you just dismiss them. Sounds like bad teaching to me. If I was shown a better way to do something I would appreciate it. I bet most people would also. I thank you for showing me a better way though. Thank you Faulkner!

aippi
12-29-2009, 22:17
As the range instuctor it would be Faulkners call to put an officer off the range. As it was mine when I was doing that job. These are not newbies, these are officers that we re-certify and they know better then to pull that mess. They know how to unload any weapon they carry safely, However, they get lazy and do dumb stuff out there on duty and when they step on to the range that we are responsible for they are going to do it safely or get kicked off.

They can then explain to their shift commander why they did not re-certify. Of course they come back to the range in another session and they don't pull that careless mess again.

This is serious stuff and anyone who has ever done this for a living has had a lot of loaded weapons pointed at them by so called "Veteran" Officers. Some of them are a Range Instructors worse nightmare because they all think they have been there done that and don't have to listen to the guy giving the safety instructions.

The best class I ever instucted was a group of Police Explorers. Those kids listen and hung on every word. No a single issue with them the entire day.

Not so when you are re-certifing line officers in most any department. If you get careless and think for one minute that just because these are LEO's you can easy up, you will pay for that mistake.

David Armstrong
12-29-2009, 22:46
Probably the most common way is to cycle all the shells from the mag to the chamber, then eject them out (with the safety on)
While that may be the most common way, it is not the correct way. Aippi got it right. Clear the chamber, raise the carrier, hit the shell latch. Put me down as another range officer who DQ'd the shooter who emptied a mag by racking the shells through the chamber.

southernshooter
12-31-2009, 04:24
While that may be the most common way, it is not the correct way. Aippi got it right. Clear the chamber, raise the carrier, hit the shell latch. Put me down as another range officer who DQ'd the shooter who emptied a mag by racking the shells through the chamber.

I just tried that again. Sometimes the shell drops out of the tube but more often it only drops about 1/8" out and stops-yes the lift bar is pushed all the way down. The gun functions 100% in use. My Beretta 390 will drop shells out of the tube every time this way.

silversport
12-31-2009, 05:33
if you are doing it right and the shells are not being pushed out of the magazine with gusto...you may need a new spring, the magazine tube may need to be cleaned/polished or your magazine follower may be damaged or hanging up...all easy and/or cheap fixes... www.aiptactical.com has the info to help with this and is really worth a read...lots of information on that site...
Bill

southernshooter
12-31-2009, 19:14
[QUOTE=silversport;14449042]if you are doing it right and the shells are not being pushed out of the magazine with gusto...you may need a new spring, the magazine tube may need to be cleaned/polished or your magazine follower may be damaged or hanging up...all easy and/or cheap fixes... www.aiptactical.com has the info to help with this and is really worth a read...lots of information on that site...

After looking again, the shells are catching on the lift bar/elevator even though it is pushed all the way down. If I lift up a little on the back of the shell it comes out. Just needs a little help to jump over the lift bar. The spring is plenty strong.

aippi
01-01-2010, 03:52
I assume you mean the carrier when you are saying lift bar???? If you rack the weapon back the bolt is out of the way and the carrier pushes completly out of the way, so I don't understand the issue you are having.

BHP9
01-01-2010, 06:17
To expound on what Bill just said. . . . .

A friend of mine (May he Rest In Peace) that was a LEO, was hunting with his beloved 870.
Well, he emptied the shotgun by racking the slide, chambering each round and dumping them into his hunting jacket, laying on the ground.

He visually inspected the chamber and then put the shotgun into the case.

When he got home, he took this 870 out of the case, racked the slide one more time. He then pointed the shotgun at the side wall where he had some 1 gallon paint cans stored.
He pulled the trigger.

BOOM!!!!!

The follower had stuck with a shell, quite a ways up, inside the magazine tube and was dislodged (apparently) on the trip home, in the trunk of that old Malibu.

Moral to the story. . . .
1. Unload your shotgun properly.
2. Check, then double-check that firearm is empty.
3. Verify with eyes and fingers.
(If my friend had checked to see that the follower was not against the shell stop, he wouldn't have painted his wife's car a light pink and ceiling white!!!!!!!

This is the reason for coloured followers.

I prefer Lime Green. YMMV.

Faulkner
01-01-2010, 08:02
So,.... instead of showing them a better way you just dismiss them. Sounds like bad teaching to me. If I was shown a better way to do something I would appreciate it. I bet most people would also. I thank you for showing me a better way though. Thank you Faulkner!

As aippi noted, by the time the deputies get to the range with me they should already know better. If you were shown a proper way to do it and didn't, you would be removed from the line (for remedial instruction, I should have added eariler, my bad). We don't apologize for running a strict range.

A little off topic, but something that has stuck with me for years. While doing a detail review of the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, It's been noted that one of the FBI agents who was killed had a handful of spent .38 brass in his pocket where he had dumped them after a reload. Where did he learn this bad habit . . . at the range. He may have been a reloader or maybe he just didn't like policing brass after a range session, who knows, but how you train is how you will perform when the adrenalin is flowing. Did stuffing the empties into his pocket get this agent killed, we'll never know, but in a situation where every second counts I wouldn't want one of my trainees fumbling around with some bad habit they learned at the range.

GoBow
01-01-2010, 17:57
A little off topic, but something that has stuck with me for years. While doing a detail review of the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, It's been noted that one of the FBI agents who was killed had a handful of spent .38 brass in his pocket where he had dumped them after a reload. Where did he learn this bad habit . . . at the range. He may have been a reloader or maybe he just didn't like policing brass after a range session, who knows, but how you train is how you will perform when the adrenalin is flowing. Did stuffing the empties into his pocket get this agent killed, we'll never know, but in a situation where every second counts I wouldn't want one of my trainees fumbling around with some bad habit they learned at the range.

Forget which video it was, but remember seeing a dashboard cam video with a LEO in a shoot out w/BG at a car stop. LEO reloads w/fresh mag, then bends over outta sight. Re appears a moment later and re engages with the BG. Don't know for sure, but I'll just about guarantee ya he dropped his spent magazine and bent over to pick it up. Just like he did on his range hundreds of times before. We do play exactly as we practice.

And to keep it OT, done correctly, unloading a pump shotgun will bring two rounds out through the bolt port (the chambered round and the on deck round in the magazine that never makes it to the chamber), and the rest of them straight out of the magazine.

guitarguy69
01-01-2010, 23:55
I actually appreciate the insight on this subject Faulkner. I received my 870 for my 12th birthday. After taking hunter safety courses and walking with dad and his friends for 2 years, (started walking with them at 10 years old) I was given the nod to carry during grouse and quail hunts. We made hundreds of trips to the woods in Minnesota Wisconsin and South Dakota, hunted with all sorts of different people, and never knew how to do this. I am now 40 and will take this lesson with me.

BMH
01-02-2010, 10:29
I'm a LE firearms instructor. When I went through training, one of my instructors told me of being in the basement of his buddy's house. His buddy started to empty his shotgun the way he had seen it on TV. One of the shells hit the corner of a concrete step and went off. Thankfully no one was hurt.

David Armstrong
01-08-2010, 12:02
A little off topic, but something that has stuck with me for years. While doing a detail review of the infamous 1986 FBI Miami Shootout, It's been noted that one of the FBI agents who was killed had a handful of spent .38 brass in his pocket where he had dumped them after a reload. Where did he learn this bad habit . . . at the range.
Sorry, but that is an urban legend that has been going around since long before the Miami fight. Usually it is attributed (also falsely) to the Newhall shooting in 1970. There is no verified instance of a LEO putting brass in his pocket during a gunfight.

Unistat
01-08-2010, 13:33
I would like to thank you all for providing me with a new piece of firearms saftey info. I really appreciate the folks who take the time to write out complete answers as opposed to one line throw aways.

I've not really had anyone show me/tutor me about firearms. Everything I know I learned in my (few) classes and picked up reading books and internet forums. Fortunatley, I am an obsessive researcher with a highly developed critical thinking apparatus or I would have succumbed to mall-ninjary long ago.

Anyway, thanks again for providing answers, you never know when your "common knowledge" is someone's epiphany.

CodyBoy
01-08-2010, 20:30
Will this method work with a Winchester as well?

Thanks.

B Coyote
01-09-2010, 09:50
With the safety on and the weapon pionted down range, Rack it back slow and roll the round from the chamber into your hand. Leaving the bolt back Push the carrier up. Press the right shell latch and it releases the shell, continue till empty. this is the safe way.

I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

I never knew there was a way OTHER than this...

bc

Faulkner
01-09-2010, 15:51
I think that is what the guys above ment but I thought I would post it with the correct names for the parts involved.

:agree:

You can still have sex even if you don't know the correct names for all the parts involved.

David Armstrong
01-11-2010, 09:50
Will this method work with a Winchester as well?

Thanks.
I don't have my manuals with me, but IIRC yes, it works with the Winchester pump also. Every shotgun I've run across is going to have some means of emptying the magazine without cycling a round through the chamber every time.

tdc rangemaster
01-11-2010, 10:47
Our dept. does not carry with a round chambered. And to unload pull the forearm back 3/4th the way back,( I place my little finger behind the forearm and when it touches the reciever thats far enough). push the shell foreward in the mag tube until an audible click the pull the forarm the rest of the way back then remove all the rounds from the tube using the shell stop(latch). This prevents ejecting the first round into the reciever.

southernshooter
01-11-2010, 18:00
I haven't seen anybody else mention it but on my late model standard 870 express when I push in on the shell stop latch the shell drops out only 1/8', then I have to push the stop latch on the other side to remove the shell. I know mine must be the same as all the others of it's type-there are identical shell stop latches on both sides. One has to be pushed, then the other.

AKJD
01-11-2010, 19:02
I haven't seen anybody else mention it but on my late model standard 870 express when I push in on the shell stop latch the shell drops out only 1/8', then I have to push the stop latch on the other side to remove the shell. I know mine must be the same as all the others of it's type-there are identical shell stop latches on both sides. One has to be pushed, then the other.

The latches are not the same and have different functions. At first glance they look the same but if you take them out of the gun you can see the difference. The gun will actually work without them staked in place because the trigger plate pins hold them in place. The right latch is the stop latch and the left latch is the feed latch. As the Forearm moves back and forth, the timing cuts in the action bars move the latches in or out to let the round out of the mag and to feed it. The feed latch lets the first round in the mag slide out onto the carrier and the stop latch prevents the next shell from following it. If you turn the gun upside down and move the forearm back and forth and look through the bottom you can see how they move. When unloading (action open)you should only have to push on the right shell latch to remove the shells. Remember it is the right shell latch when the gun is right side up, if you hold the gun upside down it is now on the left side.

CBennett
01-11-2010, 19:54
Racking them through the chamber is an unnecessary method of unloading an 870. 870's are very easy to unload the magazine just by pushing the leaf spring at the rear of the mag well and letting the rounds fall into your hand one at a time, then open the chamber and let the loaded round fall out.

As a LE firearms instructor I would remove anyone from our range who unloaded a 870 or Mossburg by racking them through the chamber.

100% I have NEVER just racked them all out...never would. when I saw that as it was like the "norm" for some I was like :shocked::dunno:

Jon_R
01-11-2010, 20:03
100% I have NEVER just racked them all out...never would. when I saw that as it was like the "norm" for some I was like :shocked::dunno:

I understand the value in what you are saying but I use my shotguns to play a game. IPSC 3-Gun and in multi-gun stages where I have to put down an empty shotgun to pick up the next gun to complete the stage I rack them out as the clock is running and that seems faster. :) Ideally I want the shotgun empty when I take the last shot. No reason to take the time putting more shells in then I need but getting a good count when you have ~20 shells to get down range on a stage you don't always end up empty.

CBennett
01-12-2010, 09:33
I understand the value in what you are saying but I use my shotguns to play a game. IPSC 3-Gun and in multi-gun stages where I have to put down an empty shotgun to pick up the next gun to complete the stage I rack them out as the clock is running and that seems faster. :) Ideally I want the shotgun empty when I take the last shot. No reason to take the time putting more shells in then I need but getting a good count when you have ~20 shells to get down range on a stage you don't always end up empty.

If it works for games cool..I have no problem with that I was replying to the OP and was giving the "safe" way to do it..I just didnt want people to think that racking them out was the "proper" way..its not..can you do it??? Sure..hell I can rack all the rounds out of my Glock to unload it also.... And I dont play games per say I either hunt or use it for HD maybe even trap/skeet in all cases for what I do I use the proper/safe method cause im not concerned about a timer in a game..but if you need to do that for your game and its acceptable more power to ya.

But from the OP post it didnt sound like he was playing games sounded like he was asking a legit how do I safely unload a shotgun question..and to be honest some people because they have never been taught the RIGHT way to unload a shotgun think that racking them all out IS the ONLY or right way to do it and its not.

southernshooter
01-12-2010, 16:46
The latches are not the same and have different functions. At first glance they look the same but if you take them out of the gun you can see the difference. The gun will actually work without them staked in place because the trigger plate pins hold them in place. The right latch is the stop latch and the left latch is the feed latch. As the Forearm moves back and forth, the timing cuts in the action bars move the latches in or out to let the round out of the mag and to feed it. The feed latch lets the first round in the mag slide out onto the carrier and the stop latch prevents the next shell from following it. If you turn the gun upside down and move the forearm back and forth and look through the bottom you can see how they move. When unloading (action open)you should only have to push on the right shell latch to remove the shells. Remember it is the right shell latch when the gun is right side up, if you hold the gun upside down it is now on the left side.

Just went and tried it again. Definitely have to push in on both sides to get the shell out of the mag. One latch will be visibly holding the shell, when you push it in it drops about 1/16" and the other side catches it. These are sabot slugs in a rifled barrel 870 express.

AKJD
01-12-2010, 17:53
Your action must not be completely to the rear. If it is not by only a small amount the shells will be stopped by both latches, exactly what you are describing. The action should be able to go back far enough that only the right latch holds the shells. If not there is something wrong.

southernshooter
01-12-2010, 18:33
Your action must not be completely to the rear. If it is not by only a small amount the shells will be stopped by both latches, exactly what you are describing. The action should be able to go back far enough that only the right latch holds the shells. If not there is something wrong.

Hmm, with the action all the way to the rear the forearm covers over half of the loading port and you can't reach either spring loaded clip or even see the shell. The gun functions perfectly when shooting.

AKJD
01-12-2010, 23:23
That would explain it. I only work with Police Magnums and they don't have that problem.

CodyBoy
01-28-2010, 19:10
Will this method work with a Winchester as well?

Thanks.


Yep, it does tried it.:wavey:

AA#5
01-28-2010, 19:18
Probably the most common way is to cycle all the shells from the mag to the chamber, then eject them out (with the safety on) I have experimented with opening the action to drop a shell out of the mag tube, then just letting it fall out of the ejection port without chambering it. Another way is to press on the side under the mag tube with the carrier pushed in-this does not seem to work very well for me. My beretta 390 is easy to unload the mag tube this way. What is your proferred method?

Letting live rounds fall out of the action without chambering them is obviously the safest way to do it.