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WiskyT
01-01-2010, 14:14
100 primers: $2.80
400 grains of powder: $0.86
100 used 40SW cases: $0.00
100 175 grain TC bullets: $0.00
Refilling a WinUSA Value Pack for $3.66, priceless

Scared_of_zombies
01-01-2010, 14:15
Very nice. Any idea how long it took to load them?

dougader
01-01-2010, 14:20
that would take me about 2 hours or so... you could argue that my time is worth more than that.. but sitting on my butt watching tv doesn't pay too well, so....

Edit: Sorry.. those times are for 1,000 rounds :)

Deployment Solu
01-01-2010, 14:26
You must be using a single stage press. I have a Dillon 650 that will load as fast as I can put a bullet on powdered, resized, & primed case. :wavey:


Still though, big difference between $3.66 & $11.00....must be the white box?????

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 14:30
I figure about 20 minutes to load them on my Lee 1000, probably an equal amount of time to obtain the lead, render it, and cast the bullets. I enjoy it too, so the time doesn't really count. I also like stickin' it to The Man.

GioaJack
01-01-2010, 14:35
I figure about 20 minutes to load them on my Lee 1000, probably an equal amount of time to obtain the lead, render it, and cast the bullets. I enjoy it too, so the time doesn't really count. I also like stickin' it to The Man.



What it was... What it is... What it shall be... Power to the Peop... err, wait a minute... I use to be The Man. Nevermind. :whistling:

Jack

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 14:53
What it was... What it is... What it shall be... Power to the Peop... err, wait a minute... I use to be The Man. Nevermind. :whistling:

Jack



I'll see you, and raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJYXXeMIrE&feature=player_embedded#

GioaJack
01-01-2010, 15:41
How the hell do you people find this stuff... half the time I can't find my teeth and then all I have to eat in the house is soup. :crying:

Jack

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 15:45
How the hell do you people find this stuff... half the time I can't find my teeth and then all I have to eat in the house is soup. :crying:

Jack

First you have to remember it. Once you do that, you operate under the assumption that if it exists, it's on the internet. If it's on the internet, it can be found via google. I remembered Whitey's on the Moon, googled it hoping to find GSH and ended up with that kook and her puppet.

ron59
01-01-2010, 16:36
How is it that your bullets cost $0.00 ???

Is it lead that you casted from free wheel weights or something ?

Cobra64
01-01-2010, 16:39
How the hell do you people find this stuff... half the time I can't find my teeth and then all I have to eat in the house is soup. :crying:

Jack

Jack, I have the same problem. :supergrin:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cartoons/NOTEETH-SMALL.jpg


.

WiskyT
01-01-2010, 16:50
How is it that your bullets cost $0.00 ???

Is it lead that you casted from free wheel weights or something ?

Scrap from my club's indoor range.

GioaJack
01-01-2010, 16:51
Jack, I have the same problem. :supergrin:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Cartoons/NOTEETH-SMALL.jpg


.



Figured we'd hear from the peanut gallery sooner or later. Where ya been old man... Metamucil not working like advertised? :supergrin:

Happy New Year and all that politically correct stuff.

Jack

shotgunred
01-01-2010, 21:14
100 primers: $2.80
400 grains of powder: $0.86
100 used 40SW cases: $0.00
100 175 grain TC bullets: $0.00
Refilling a WinUSA Value Pack for $3.66, priceless

What does it cost to melt the lead? what are you using for lube? Is it free also?
Does That $1500 dollars plus you spent in equipment doesn't factor in either?

Don't get me wrong $4.00 a hundred is still dirt cheap and cheaper than anything I am doing.

dougader
01-01-2010, 21:30
What does it cost to melt the lead?

About the same as it does to heat water for a couple showers.

what are you using for lube?

Isn't that a bit personal? :whistling:

Is it free also?

Nothing ever is really free, now is it? ;)

Does That $1500 dollars plus you spent in equipment doesn't factor in either?

You must think I have a lot of money. I maybe have $700 in casting and loading equipment.... and most of it is 20+ years old. I wonder how that amortizes out.... :whistling:

Don't get me wrong $4.00 a hundred is still dirt cheap and cheaper than anything I am doing.

:cool:

WiskyT
01-02-2010, 08:21
What does it cost to melt the lead?

At $0.0873/per kilowatt hour, to take scrap lead to 100 bullets, I'd say about $0.04.

what are you using for lube?

A very tiny amount of White Label liquid xlox.

Is it free also?

No, and neither is the current used to run the Sirius Radio I listened to while casting my free bullets.

Does That $1500 dollars plus you spent in equipment doesn't factor in either?

You put an extra 0 in there by mistake. I have about $150.00 in casting equipment in use when making a given bullet. Less really, $40.00 mold with $15.00 handles and a $40.00 pot. Amortize that over "forever" and it's not worth mentioning. I've spent more on dinner.

Don't get me wrong $4.00 a hundred is still dirt cheap and cheaper than anything I am doing.

Find yourself 50# of lead. Melt it into ingots to see how easy it is. Then you can make the leap to a 10# bottom pour and a 2 cavity Lee mold. Within in a year you'll have several molds and you will be giving all your friends and neighbours bullets for their birthdays.

Colorado4Wheel
01-02-2010, 08:45
Casting hurts my head, on one hand..... on the other hand.......

I can't decide.

bno762
01-02-2010, 09:03
100 primers: $2.80
400 grains of powder: $0.86
100 used 40SW cases: $0.00
100 175 grain TC bullets: $0.00
Refilling a WinUSA Value Pack for $3.66, priceless

Sounds like a good deal to me!

Oh btw thought I'd mention- The price of primers at one of the shops by me is $10.99 per 100!!! I friggin fell out laughin when I read it. I was gonna sell half of my primers at a decent discount, say maybe $8.00 per 100 and make me some extra cash. But so far they are the only ones I found askin that much for primers.

I gotta start casting my own boolits. Got me a nice bottom pour furnace and all the extras....except for lead and time.

PCJim
01-02-2010, 10:19
Within in a year you'll have several molds and you will be giving all your friends and neighbours bullets for their birthdays.

WiskyT, are you casting .356 9's or .452 45's? We're too far apart to be neighbors, but I'd sure like to be YOUR friend. BTW, my birthday's coming up......:cool:

Bob2223
01-02-2010, 10:35
Casting hurts my head, on one hand..... on the other hand.......

I can't decide.

You need to go visit Jack and use his equipment, he was just braggin about all the WW he got :whistling:

Bob

WiskyT
01-02-2010, 10:35
Not yet. I'm doing 0.358 158 SWC, .402-3 175TC, and .311 95RN. I have enough 9mm bullets left over from before the bho blight and I've never shot my 45.

WiskyT
01-02-2010, 10:41
bno, those were special primers for "special" people to buy. Hang in there, the prices have been getting better. I can buy them for $28.00/k locally but only a couple k at a time. Online is down to 25/k but you have to pay shipping. I think 25/k, locally, all I can eat, is about as good as it will get.

GioaJack
01-02-2010, 10:46
You need to go visit Jack and use his equipment, he was just braggin about all the WW he got :whistling:

Bob


Steve:

You're less than two hours away... drive on up here and I'll give you a crash course in casting. If you have a mould bring it and we'll cast you up a big pile of pretty little projectiles.

Bring an oxygen tank, you Flatlanders tend to faint at high altitudes... oh, wait a minute, you can use one of my tanks. :whistling:

Jack

Have to leave for Florida in three weeks so I'll be home till then. Have a lot of casting to catch up on.

shotgunred
01-02-2010, 14:27
At $0.0873/per kilowatt hour, to take scrap lead to 100 bullets, I'd say about $0.04.



A very tiny amount of White Label liquid xlox.



No, and neither is the current used to run the Sirius Radio I listened to while casting my free bullets.



You put an extra 0 in there by mistake. I have about $150.00 in casting equipment in use when making a given bullet. Less really, $40.00 mold with $15.00 handles and a $40.00 pot. Amortize that over "forever" and it's not worth mentioning. I've spent more on dinner.



Find yourself 50# of lead. Melt it into ingots to see how easy it is. Then you can make the leap to a 10# bottom pour and a 2 cavity Lee mold. Within in a year you'll have several molds and you will be giving all your friends and neighbours bullets for their birthdays.

I have several hundred pounds of lead. About 200 lbs made into diving weights , one big sheet and a bunch of bread pans full. A propane burner and a pot that will hold at least 20 lbs of lead. I am sure my lead stuff is to big for making bullets. I do keep it around just in case I ever have to join you in making bullets. But for now making bullets is something I just don't have time for. As I shoot simi-autos I prefer plated rounds.

I

Colorado4Wheel
01-02-2010, 16:40
Steve:

You're less than two hours away... drive on up here and I'll give you a crash course in casting. If you have a mould bring it and we'll cast you up a big pile of pretty little projectiles.

Bring an oxygen tank, you Flatlanders tend to faint at high altitudes... oh, wait a minute, you can use one of my tanks. :whistling:

Jack

Have to leave for Florida in three weeks so I'll be home till then. Have a lot of casting to catch up on.

It's more about buying a barrel. Then the equipment. I had a bad experiance in the past with a Lone Wolf barrel and trying to make Moly and Lead work right. So it's hard to pull the trigger.

GioaJack
01-02-2010, 18:22
Little Stevie, Little Stevie, Little Steve... what in the world are we going to do with you? Lets break down your concerns and see if we can dispel some myths. (I say WE because I don't want to take all the blame for anything I might say.

First, a barrel for your Glock. Now I'm not much of a Glock guy, only have one, a G30 and I'm really not all that crazy about it but we'll save that topic for another time. I don't see why buying an after market barrel would be an immediate priority... lots of guys around here shoot lead out of their stock barrels on a regular basis. Okay, maybe you want to scrub the bore every couple hundred rounds, big deal. It gets your toe in the water shooting lead without the hundred buck expense of a barrel. That can be added later. (Or just buy a real gun.) :supergrin:

You say that you've had a problem with Moly... well I had a problem with Molly too, even after three dates she still wouldn't give it up so I... oh, you meant Moly coated bullets. Can't help you there, never loaded or shot any of 'em... when you cast there's no need to.

You also mentioned that you've had problems with lead but failed to elaborate on the problems which is in itself strange because the only one more verbose than me... is you. :tongueout:

Lets look at a little bit of history concerning lead bullets. (There's nothing good on TV right now... I've got time.)

The longest recorded sniper kill, until Carlos Hathcock made his famous shot in Vietnam, was made during the Civil War using a soft lead, lubed Minie ball.

For decades and decades NRA records were set with 148 grain .38 cal wadcutters and .45 cal semi-wadcutters.

Every manner of dangerous game on earth has been taken with lead bullets... I have taken my share of wily coyotes and sly foxes harassing my livestock.

Back when I was still able to hold a pistol steadily in one hand I use to regularly put five .45 cal round ball out of a Ruger Old Army in the ten ring at 25 yards during black powder matches. (A black powder revolver uses no patching material... it's just pure lead ball on steel barrel with lube smeared over the ball in the cylinder.

As long as one stays within velocity limitations, and given proper casting, sizing and lube lead projectiles are ever bit as accurate as jacketed, plated or Moly bullets... at a fraction of the price. (HA! Got your attention there.)

Okay, lets talk about equipment and lets relate it to something you'll understand... construction.

The first thing you ever built probably was not done with the same quality or caliber tools you now use in your business. You may have spent years pulling a line against diagonal measurements trying to square a foundation until you realized the cost, time and accuracy benefits of a transit, but you made do with what you had until the time was right to upgrade. Casting equipment is no different.

You can cast perfectly acceptable bullets with a propane heated pot and a ladle or you can increase production, (and enjoyment) with more sophisticated equipment. (You bought Glocks for the quality and reliability but you could have started out with a Rossi... it would still put a bullet down range. Maybe.)

The cost of casting equipment is totally up to you. A Lee electric bottom spout can be had probably for well under a hundred bucks. Lee moulds are considerably cheaper than one carton of cigarettes and although I don't do it you can even get by without sizing them and using Alox or one of the other products for lube. (I started casting well before those products came out so I know absolutely nothing about them.)

If you choose you can start out at a higher level and pretty much never have to upgrade. In over forty-five years I've on;y used three electric, bottom pour pots and I'm still using the third one. I'm still using the same Lyman and Lachmiller moulds I bought back then although obviously I've added a bunch over the years. I still have the same Lyman sizer I bought back then and have been using the same Star sizer for over thirty years. If my son-in-law takes care of all the stuff he'll be able to pass it on to my grandson. Quality equipment lasts... be it casting equipment or construction tools.

So, we've addressed some of your tangible concerns, the one intangible is something you have to decide... do you want to learn and experience another facet of reloading?

As much as it kills me to admit it, that old fart 'unclebob' says it best... 'shooting is a byproduct of reloading'. Casting just brings it to a higher level.

Good luck... you're more than welcome to come up and dip your toe in the water... keep it out of the lead, it's hot!

Jack

jawjaboy
01-02-2010, 19:30
This past Spring(09) before I retired I sold 10 Value Pak boxes to my work mates. Got tired of hearing 'em whine about no ammo available anywhere. I had been staring at the factory mess for years, decided to help 'em out and rid myself of it.

Sold 'em 4 boxes of 45acp and 6 boxes of 9mm, 1k total. They was glad ta get it, I made a tidy profit :cool: , and bought components wit da $.

WIN WIN all around.

Colorado4Wheel
01-02-2010, 20:02
You also mentioned that you've had problems with lead but failed to elaborate on the problems which is in itself strange because the only one more verbose than me... is you. :tongueout:

Jack

My lone wolf barrel had a HUGE throat so everything leaded. No mater what I did. But thats another story. I need to be able to shoot at least 300rds with out cleaning. More is better. But 300 is a day of shooting and I can't stop to clean during my practices. No time. So unless I can hit 300 with zero concerns it's a huge issue for me. Second concern is smoke. For that, I would just need to try it and see. I already use a lead freindly powder so I should be OK for my outdoor stuff. But until I try it I won't know. It would run me about $250 with a barrel to get the LEE Bottom Pour, mold and a barrel and a couple other things. No big deal but I don't want to assume it will work and then find out I wasted $250 for no good reason.

WiskyT
01-02-2010, 20:29
In my experience a load either leads or it doesn't. 10 shots or 200, if it leads, it will be a mess from the get go. It's easy to avoid leading, just use a slower powder like Unique or other similar powder, and load down. The hard part can be using a fast powder like Bullseye or trying to get a specific high velocity.

The harder the bullet, in a high pressure round like 40sw, the more you can "get away with" in terms of using fast powders and/or getting high velocity. With some hard cast commercial bullets I still have left from the days of $25.00/K bullets, I can put 5.0 Bullseye under them and get 950fps with no leading. They shoot better with 5.4 Unique for the same velocity. With my softer range scrap bullets, 5.0 BE gives terrible accuracy, leading, and keyholing. The same bullet with 3.2 BE shoots like a dream. I haven't clocked the 3.2BE load, but it's a sure bet it's not running the 950fps of the 5.0 load. With 4.2 Unique, I get zero leading, and a 5 shot 2.5" group offhand with my Beretta 96. They shoot a larger, but still decent group with the 5.4 Unique.

So I can get the velocity I want if I use a slower powder. I could use a harder alloy, but by playing around with the load I don't need to. For my purposes right now, I want the most accurate load at 25yds I can get for my clubs informal PPC matches. So "ill play around a bit more, but I'll probably stick with the 4.2 Unique. All of the loads I listed cycle the gun reliably even though my recoil spring is a couple of pounds heavier than stock.

My range scrap bullets aren't as hard as wheel weights. WW are a PITA for me to get as no one place will let me have them twice. I have to hunt around, strike out a lot etc. I get all the range scrap I want any time I want.

So basically, you could easily walk before you have to run, if you decide you even need to run. A mediocre bullet cast out of low quality alloy with a mild load of Unique will get you a good shooting round that will run your gun.

All loads I listed are from various published sources. DO NOT take my posted data and consider it safe without verifying it from a published source. I can and do make typos etc and every gun is different.

ron59
01-02-2010, 21:15
Second concern is smoke. For that, I would just need to try it and see. I already use a lead freindly powder so I should be OK for my outdoor stuff.

Smoke is the deal breaker for me. I do ALL my practice at an indoor range.

After reading about all the guys shooting lead, I bought a Lone Wolf barrel and 3000 bullets from Missouri Bullets. Took some to the range... cough, cough. WAY too smoky! With the partitions separating the shooting bays, the smoke just didn't want to disperse too well. They have a HUGE ventilation system (you can easily hear the fans even with muffs on), but trying to shoot a double-tap is tough. There's so much smoke from the first shot, it makes the sights hazy lining up the second.

I shot 100 Black Bullets (moly-coated) today. Considerably less smoky, but after I was done, it seemed like I could still "taste" that smoke an hour later. I don't think that's good ju ju. If I was shooting outside, it might be okay, but not inside.

CaptJim
01-03-2010, 16:20
Smoke is the deal breaker for me. I do ALL my practice at an indoor range.

After reading about all the guys shooting lead, I bought a Lone Wolf barrel and 3000 bullets from Missouri Bullets. Took some to the range... cough, cough. WAY too smoky! With the partitions separating the shooting bays, the smoke just didn't want to disperse too well. They have a HUGE ventilation system (you can easily hear the fans even with muffs on), but trying to shoot a double-tap is tough. There's so much smoke from the first shot, it makes the sights hazy lining up the second.

I shot 100 Black Bullets (moly-coated) today. Considerably less smoky, but after I was done, it seemed like I could still "taste" that smoke an hour later. I don't think that's good ju ju. If I was shooting outside, it might be okay, but not inside.

Not saying that This is some sort of panacea, but I have been shooting matches with my .45 1911's using 200gr LSWC bullets from a local caster and also from well known casters like Kead and Missouri without a lot of smoke and just what I consider a minimal amount of leading. Not sure if all the bullets I've loaded have the same kind of lube, but I know that can definitely be a major source of smoke.

My best results for lower vel match rounds so far have been using 3.8 and 4.0gr of Hodgdon's Clays (not sure of vel), but I also use HP38(a little smokier/dirtier) and HS6 with good results as well. I grew up using Unique, and still do for higher velocity loads, but get a little more smoke than I like with lower vel. loads using it. At least compared to some of the other shooters at our matches, my gun seems to make very little smoke. Have never shot indoors with these loads so I can't say they would be OK, but at least relative to what I've seen I've been fortunate.

In the summer when those big Swamp Skeeters are out, I like to be in the smoke, cause the Skeeters don't like it.

As always, YMMV and always start low and work up,

Jim

Kentucky Shooter
01-03-2010, 16:44
100 primers: $2.80
400 grains of powder: $0.86
100 used 40SW cases: $0.00
100 175 grain TC bullets: $0.00
Refilling a WinUSA Value Pack for $3.66, priceless

very nice-----you can't beat that. A great feeling to load your own ammo. :supergrin:

Landric
01-04-2010, 13:12
My standard .38 Special IDPA load uses Trail Boss powder and a 200 grain Lyman 358430 RN bullet that I cast myself. The lead is free, the brass is free, and powder costs me about $1.10 per 100 rounds, and I'm using primers I got for $2.50/100, so yeah, $3.60 for 100 rounds that cannot be purchased at all most places (where does one find 200 grain .38 Special ammunition, especially that makes power factor, these days?) isn't too shabby. I love handloading and casting, I couldn't afford to shoot otherwise.

MoNsTeR
01-04-2010, 19:00
100 primers: $2.80
400 grains of powder: $0.86
100 used 40SW cases: $0.00
100 175 grain TC bullets: $0.00
Refilling a WinUSA Value Pack for $3.66, priceless

You forgot to account for opportunity cost. You could have sold those components, after all. TANSTAAFL.

Market value of 100 40S&W cases: $3.00 (roughly)
Market value of 100 175gr case bullets: $6-ish

Still a great price.

WiskyT
01-04-2010, 21:03
You forgot to account for opportunity cost. You could have sold those components, after all. TANSTAAFL.

Market value of 100 40S&W cases: $3.00 (roughly)
Market value of 100 175gr case bullets: $6-ish

Still a great price.

From an academic standpoint, you're right about the components. From a practical standpoint, I'd have a hard time selling them. What is "TANSTAAFL"?

Brucev
01-05-2010, 08:11
"What is 'TANSTAAFL?'" "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."

WiskyT
01-05-2010, 16:21
"What is 'TANSTAAFL?'" "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."

Received.