Ghost Ring Help. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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BoxerDog25
01-02-2010, 10:52
I would like to put ghost ring sights on my 870 and I am having a hard time figuring out the good and the bad. I know that some people here do not care for ghost rings, but I would like your thoughts on ghost rings as well. Also please suggest other brands that I have not listed if you like them. Any opinions are welcome.


here are some ghost rings that I have been looking at .


There isnt much information regarding the meprolight ghost rings , I dont know much about them.

Mepros

http://www.officerstore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_6182_meprolight_benelli_shotgun_night_sight_ghost_ring_set/


Trijicons , I like these but the front sight seems really small in size.

http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=57&back_row=9&categoryID=7


Wilson Combat, I think these are the same as the trijions.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/sa_traklock.asp


XS sights

http://www.xssights.com/store/shotgun.html

L-2
01-02-2010, 22:42
deleted

aippi
01-02-2010, 22:42
Ghost Rings are simply peep sights. they have no place on a fighting shotgun as you have to have a lot of trigger time to learn to shoot them with both eyes open and aquire the target fast. A shotgun is a close quarters weapon and to put a peep sight on it is not the best option.

A bead sight is all that is needed for a fighting shotgun. Period.

MrMurphy
01-03-2010, 00:11
Peep sights have a small aperature. Ghost rings have a large one. Not EVERY ONE needs tons of time learning to use them. I spent most of my life shooting military and military surplus rifles with aperature sights. Ghost rings were a natural transition to me, and required almost no training.

Going from running an M16 to running a shotgun with the same sighting system made sense. I shot a lot of slugs, and for that, GR's are the way to go. At closer distances, the GR was no slower (to me) than a bead.

LPA makes the ones on Benellis and they're good. XS is also excellent, and their Express sights are almost as accurate with slugs as a GR, but very, very fast (Express sights being made specifically for up close dangerous stuff).

Trijicon, MMC and a few others make good ones as well. If your primary mission is close in work with buckshot, a bead is fine. If you anticipate probable regular use of slugs AND buck.........get GR's or something similar.

Minnow
01-03-2010, 00:15
Ghost rings are every bit as fast as a bead for me and damn sure more accurate at intermediate and long range. I don't think I would want a tritium rear sight, but the front would be a nice feature. Whatever brand you go with make sure the rear ghost ring mounts on the receiver and not out where the rifle rear sight set on the barrel.

Whazoo
01-03-2010, 15:05
Ghost Rings are simply peep sights. they have no place on a fighting shotgun as you have to have a lot of trigger time to learn to shoot them with both eyes open and aquire the target fast. A shotgun is a close quarters weapon and to put a peep sight on it is not the best option.

A bead sight is all that is needed for a fighting shotgun. Period.

Not sure I am with you on this one - I have both and I don't consider these two sighting systems to particularly relevant to speed. The advantage of the bead is symplicity - one point of reference. The advantage of the ghost is that slug shooting now becomes much more accurate, and extends the 20 meter gun to a 75-100 meter gun. In CQB, with multiple targets, a chin weld might be used with both designs. But you may have a point, many people don't train, for them - as Thomas Hobbes said: simplicity equates to survival ... I don't understand WHY one would not have a lot of trigger time, but I suppose there are life circumstances that interfere with training...

Mark A
01-03-2010, 16:53
I let a friend talk me into installing ghost ring sights on my latest 870. I'm really glad I did. I've been shooting 870's for about 35 years and this was the first time I didn't use a bead. It took me about 3-4 rounds of birdshot to get used to it. After that I patterned 00 buck and then moved to slugs. I really like the sight a lot

Mark

aippi
01-04-2010, 19:58
Same responses every time the question comes up. The people posting the greatness of Ghost Rings are mostly exprienced shooters and have mastered them with both eyes open. They also have learned not to allow them to shut down their peripheral vision when you first swing up from the low ready as the rear sight is at the back of the receiver and comes up right in your eye.

Other are lying and shoot with one eys closed and are target shooters and will never need their peripheral vision as multiple paper targets are not a threat to your life..

For the rest of us that are not master shooters, we need a weapon that we can deploy at close quarters and eliminate the threat against our life. And that is a bead sight. The are shotguns and their range is limited.

Mr Murphy, I am amazed you attemped to school me on peep sights. The Armorers manual list them like this. "Peep sight, aperture Large ( Ghost Ring)". That is exactly how they are listed, so they are peep sights no matter what you call them. If you disagree with that verbage I will bring that up in April when I return to the factory and tell them you said they are wrong. Maybe they will change the descriptiong for these sights.

MrMurphy
01-04-2010, 20:28
People generally referring to "peep" sights tend to be referring to very small target aperatures.

Not larger, more open ghost-ring styles. It may be a peep sight but not all peeps are equal.

MAX100
01-08-2010, 13:19
Ghost ring sights on a shotgun are very fast on target and anyone can easily learn how to use them.. They are more versatile than a bead sight.

You can buy a Hawk 982 with GRS for what it would cost you to put a set on your 870.


GC

walkin' trails
01-08-2010, 15:06
I had Scattergun Tech do mine. I was first introduced to ghost rings when the Border Patrol upgraded all their 870s to the ST "Border Patrol" model. I just can't shoot slugs consistently without a rear sight. Ghost rings are great.

David Armstrong
01-09-2010, 12:08
IME, the ghost ring sight on the shotgun is a wonderful solution to a non-existent problem. The bead does everything you need to do for a fighting shotgun. The problem with it is that most folks never learn how to use it at any real distance. A bead-sight shotgun can and will regularly hit a man-size torso at 100 yards with a slug.

MAX100
01-09-2010, 13:31
IME, the ghost ring sight on the shotgun is a wonderful solution to a non-existent problem. The bead does everything you need to do for a fighting shotgun. The problem with it is that most folks never learn how to use it at any real distance. A bead-sight shotgun can and will regularly hit a man-size torso at 100 yards with a slug.

With practice I can hit a man size target with a slingshot @ 100. A shotgun with GRS will do it faster, more consistently and accurately than a bead sight.


GC

walkin' trails
01-09-2010, 19:32
I've got a lot more years of lining up ghost ring sights than I have with shotgun beads. Having something similar to the sights on my AR works better for me. I've known some absolute wizzards with shotguns who prefer a bead to any other sighting system. There's nothing wrong with that. Those guys, though, have spent a lot of time getting to their master levels with scatterguns. I respect them for that. I don't have that kind of time. I'm a lot more confident when I have a front and rear sight. That's what I'm used to.

nickoglock1
01-09-2010, 20:35
ghost rings are simply peep sights. They have no place on a fighting shotgun as you have to have a lot of trigger time to learn to shoot them with both eyes open and aquire the target fast. A shotgun is a close quarters weapon and to put a peep sight on it is not the best option.

A bead sight is all that is needed for a fighting shotgun. Period.


+1 , :)

BoxerDog25
01-09-2010, 23:23
Can I get some input on Ghost Ring brands please?

Puppy
01-09-2010, 23:47
Can I get some input on Ghost Ring brands please?

I have factory Mossberg GRS on my 590A1 - they don't glow in the dark but the blaze orange on the front post is easy enough to see even in low light.

David Armstrong
01-11-2010, 09:43
With practice I can hit a man size target with a slingshot @ 100. A shotgun with GRS will do it faster, more consistently and accurately than a bead sight.
GC
Well, having seen a lot of students come through the ol' shotgun class, I'd just have to disagree with you regarding any significant differences as it relates to using the shotgun in a fighting mode. Even if one grants the claim, however, it amounts to giving up effectiveness for common use in exchange for slight improvement at uncommon uses.

from walklin' trails:
I've got a lot more years of lining up ghost ring sights than I have with shotgun beads. Having something similar to the sights on my AR works better for me.
There is a lot to be said for that. Already being familiar with and used to one sighting system can be advantageous.

aippi
01-11-2010, 10:22
Dr. J frame posted a video on this site from Clint Smith about Defense shotguns. You guys should give it a watch. Same stuff I was taught 40 years ago and has not changed. Hey, but what do guys like us know, we are just old.

As for GR's. The Trijicon GR's are made by Scatergun Tech/Wilson and sent to Trijicon for instalation of the Tritium. So the are Wilson GR sights. Also, the Trijicons will cost you less then the Wilson Track Loc's even though they are the same sights in a different package.

I only install these on my custom builds (when I can't talk a guy out of GR's) so I don't know about others.

That is all I know about Ghost Rings except they can get you killed in a gun fight.

BleedNOrange
01-11-2010, 13:27
Ghost Rings are simply peep sights. they have no place on a fighting shotgun as you have to have a lot of trigger time to learn to shoot them with both eyes open and aquire the target fast. A shotgun is a close quarters weapon and to put a peep sight on it is not the best option.

A bead sight is all that is needed for a fighting shotgun. Period.
I gotta disagree too. Our Dept doesn't issue Patrol rifles so our shotgun serves a dual purpose. Engaging targets out to 75-100 yards is pretty simple with ghost ring sights. With a bead...not so much. With practice the ghost ring is just as fast in target aquisition also.

aippi
01-11-2010, 16:34
If you want to shoot at longer ranges then use rifle sights. Both sights are on the barrel so once you sight it in it stays sighted in. With Ghost rings, the rear sight is on the receiver and the front sight is on the barrel so the sight picture can change with each shot and will each time you take the barrel off for cleaning as shotgun barrel are not pinned, threaded nor pressed on but simply slip into a notch in the receiver and the mag cap holds them on. Same reason receiver mounted scopes are less accurate then the cantilever mount that is on the barrel and once sighted in is sighted in the barrel not the receiver. Receiver mounted scopes are sighted in to the receiver not the barrel.

Also, the rifle sights are out on the barrel approximately the same distance from your eyes as the rear sight on your handgun. it is the same rear sight as your hand gun, a notched rear sight and the same sight picture. Since officers practice more with their handguns, this allows the officer to transistion from his hand gun to the shotgun and from the shotgun to his handgun with the same sights and same sight picture. This is what makes sense when you have to use these weapons in the line of duty.

So with RS on your shotgun it is the same as shooting your handgun except more stable and since you are an LEO and qualified with the handgun you should be fine with rifle sights even at close quarters. You acquire your hand gun sights fast and you will acquire the RS on your shotgun just as fast. Same damn sights.

So all this mess about ghost rings being more accurate are simply not true because of the design of the weapon. That talk only works on people that don't understand shotguns. And I or any shotgun shooter will stand next to you with your GR's and our BS and match your slug shooting at any distance you pick. However the guy with rifle sights will out shoot both of us for accuracy every time.

I'll end comments on this now as the above are facts not opinions and repeating them every time this subject comes up is getting boring. He who has ears let him hear.

CBennett
01-11-2010, 17:18
Honestly I think they are a total waste on a close up close combat weapon(which is what the shotgun is) id rather have a bead sight and something like a XS Big dot front sight. for close combat. I think trying to aim down(in) a ring/peep/ghost type sight quick at close range is fail...give me a bead,bead+XS big dot, or even a red dot holo type sight..only thing id use ghosts for is shooting slugs at longer distances.

BoxerDog25
02-07-2010, 10:40
JD, what rifled sights do you recommend? I mostly work at night, (no dayshift for years ) so night sights help, but I would not rule out quality fiber optics. thanks


If you want to shoot at longer ranges then use rifle sights. Both sights are on the barrel so once you sight it in it stays sighted in. With Ghost rings, the rear sight is on the receiver and the front sight is on the barrel so the sight picture can change with each shot and will each time you take the barrel off for cleaning as shotgun barrel are not pinned, threaded nor pressed on but simply slip into a notch in the receiver and the mag cap holds them on. Same reason receiver mounted scopes are less accurate then the cantilever mount that is on the barrel and once sighted in is sighted in the barrel not the receiver. Receiver mounted scopes are sighted in to the receiver not the barrel.

Also, the rifle sights are out on the barrel approximately the same distance from your eyes as the rear sight on your handgun. it is the same rear sight as your hand gun, a notched rear sight and the same sight picture. Since officers practice more with their handguns, this allows the officer to transistion from his hand gun to the shotgun and from the shotgun to his handgun with the same sights and same sight picture. This is what makes sense when you have to use these weapons in the line of duty.

So with RS on your shotgun it is the same as shooting your handgun except more stable and since you are an LEO and qualified with the handgun you should be fine with rifle sights even at close quarters. You acquire your hand gun sights fast and you will acquire the RS on your shotgun just as fast. Same damn sights.

So all this mess about ghost rings being more accurate are simply not true because of the design of the weapon. That talk only works on people that don't understand shotguns. And I or any shotgun shooter will stand next to you with your GR's and our BS and match your slug shooting at any distance you pick. However the guy with rifle sights will out shoot both of us for accuracy every time.

I'll end comments on this now as the above are facts not opinions and repeating them every time this subject comes up is getting boring. He who has ears let him hear.

fragout
02-07-2010, 15:48
Ghost Rings are simply peep sights. they have no place on a fighting shotgun as you have to have a lot of trigger time to learn to shoot them with both eyes open and acquire the target fast. A shotgun is a close quarters weapon and to put a peep sight on it is not the best option.

A bead sight is all that is needed for a fighting shotgun. Period.

That is simply not true. It is your opinion. I have been through several Shotgun courses in the Army and the Marines. I have used shotguns in combat on several occasions. There is a reason GRS are now issued(and have been) on Military shotguns, they are very fast, accurate, good in the low light. GRS are proven superior in combat situations. A shotgun is a short to medium defensive weapon. Most combat engagements are in that range. But to say they have no place on a fighting shotgun is dead wrong. We could not use slugs legally in combat due to the fact that a shotgun is considered a defensive weapon, not an offensive one. I could sweep a room with GR's as fast as a bead and still engage targets with 00 at 40-60 yards.The Army and Marines have been putting alot of research into combat shotgunning since the late 80's. If you are fine with a bead sight more power to you, but you limit your weapon IMHO.

Minnow
02-07-2010, 16:26
Can I get some input on Ghost Ring brands please?

:supergrin:

I would recommend the XS brand. Every one of their products that I have bought has been of excellent quality. Machine work is 1st class. I've got their Marlin Ghost Ring set with the white striped front sight and it is superb. If I was in your shoes I would seriously consider the set with the tritium stripe front. They provide excellent installation instructions with their products and they install just as advertised.

2 Hawks
02-07-2010, 19:05
That is simply not true. It is your opinion. I have been through several Shotgun courses in the Army and the Marines. I have used shotguns in combat on several occasions. There is a reason GRS are now issued(and have been) on Military shotguns, they are very fast, accurate, good in the low light. GRS are proven superior in combat situations. A shotgun is a short to medium defensive weapon. Most combat engagements are in that range. But to say they have no place on a fighting shotgun is dead wrong. We could not use slugs legally in combat due to the fact that a shotgun is considered a defensive weapon, not an offensive one. I could sweep a room with GR's as fast as a bead and still engage targets with 00 at 40-60 yards.The Army and Marines have been putting alot of research into combat shotgunning since the late 80's. If you are fine with a bead sight more power to you, but you limit your weapon IMHO.

+1 I have MMC GR sights on my 870 and 1100, very fast on target from 7 yards out to 200 yards on a man size target using Winchester foster type slugs. I even hunt with this same set up. Quail and deer are bagged just the same. Anyone who has hunted quail know how quick these birds can scatter.
whatever rig you use train with it and be proficient with it.
Check Brownells for the MMC sights..

Copis
02-07-2010, 20:42
Dr. J frame posted a video on this site from Clint Smith about Defense shotguns. You guys should give it a watch. Same stuff I was taught 40 years ago and has not changed. Hey, but what do guys like us know, we are just old.


I have an article from Clint Smith that sings the praises of his full blown Vang 870 (GR, porting and all :wow:)

I posted a video from LAV (Vickers) that dismisses simple shotguns

There is no reason to get defensive or dogmatic. Pick your tools. Know their advantages and limitations. Learn how to use them.

Bill

Goldstar225
02-08-2010, 07:54
I installed the Scattergun Technologies (now owned by Wilson Combat) Ghost Ring sights on my privately owned, department approved duty 870 many years ago. I've been very pleased with them.