PHOTOS - .40 S&W expanded bullets; test w/wet newspaper jugs and denim [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TWS G26
01-02-2010, 19:56
Posting photos of expanded bullets from some of my recent tests with wet newspaper jugs and denim. The cartridges were provided by GT's DRT, who asked that I provide these photos...I'm just a few weeks behind in doing so. The cartridges tested were HST 180 gr, Gold Dot 165 gr, and Ranger T 165 gr. The test gun was a Glock 22.

The links for all three tests are posted here in Caliber Corner. A search for "video" and "tnoutdoors9" or "TWS G26" should get them all. The respective posts will show the link to each video of the test on YouTube.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/tnoutdoors9/40side2reducedlabeled.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u69/tnoutdoors9/40toplabeled.jpg

hurley842002
01-02-2010, 23:02
Wow, that 180gr HST is very impressive. I've watched all of your videos (great vids by the way), and it certainly appears the heavy for the caliber HST's would be a very good choice.

Renceri
01-02-2010, 23:36
Hst 180gr is the clear winner.nice pics and vids.can you test also the hst .40 155gr in your next videos.thanks.

SDGlock23
01-02-2010, 23:47
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.

hurley842002
01-02-2010, 23:53
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.

When I carry .40, this is my round of choice. I did a test with just water in milk jugs, and the end result was very good. Obviously the difference in Media along with the denim, would produce different results, however I have to agree, another test or two and I think the results may be different. As much as those HST's impress me, the same thing could have happened to them. Just goes to show, any type of bullet can and will malfunction from time to time.

Ak.Hiker
01-03-2010, 00:46
I like the deep penetration of the 165 grain Gold Dot. Reminds me more of an XTP. The HST design sure does expand. Lots of good choices depending on your needs in the 40 S&W.

DRT
01-03-2010, 01:30
Thx TWS G26. Your HST and Gold Dot results closely mirror results from my own testing. The Ranger Tseries did fair better in my testing, however. For reference, here's where I posted pictures of my test results.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157528

Here's ATK's data for comparison, HST vs Gold Dot. Since ATK makes both brands there should be no reason for bias.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

The .40 180gr HST penetrates >12", expands reliably and large, and even holds together through various intermediate barriers, including glass.

I agree that the Ranger T series results are interesting. For me, it's been very reliable through denim, even out of a G27. Maybe I'll send some more Ranger Tseries to TWS, along with a few 165gr HSTs, when the weather breaks if he's interested in additional testing.

DRT
01-03-2010, 01:51
Wow, that 180gr HST is very impressive. I've watched all of your videos (great vids by the way), and it certainly appears the heavy for the caliber HST's would be a very good choice.


I agree. Heavy-for-the-caliber HST and Ranger Tseries are top choices. They offer reliable performance through various intermediate barriers. They penetrate acceptably, open reliably, and hold together better than the lightweight, faster versions.

glocksterr
01-03-2010, 07:02
When I carry .40, this is my round of choice. I did a test with just water in milk jugs, and the end result was very good. Obviously the difference in Media along with the denim, would produce different results, however I have to agree, another test or two and I think the results may be different.

can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!

:cool:



As much as those HST's impress me, the same thing could have happened to them.

really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?

hurley842002
01-03-2010, 12:15
can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!

:cool:


really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?

Unclear as to what the first line of rambling is supposed to mean, and
Not sure why you would be asking for proof, as I clearly said it COULD happen, not that it WOULD happen or that i've seen it happen. I was merely pointing out the fact, that one test does not show the HST to be superior to the Winchester or vice versa. For your information I have zero HST's, 50 165gr Ranger T's, and my typical carry round is Speer GD 125gr 357sig. The only thing I need to feel good about, is how accurate I am with my pistol, and I feel very good about that.

sharpshooter
01-03-2010, 13:43
Why 4 layers of denim? Who wears 4 layers of denim? Is this test supposed to replicate real life?

DRT
01-03-2010, 14:00
Why 4 layers of denim? Who wears 4 layers of denim? Is this test supposed to replicate real life?


I know that this question has been answered a number of times before but here you go...

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/02/0604-02a.htm

In summary, bullets that passed the FBI's heavy clothing test occassionally failed to expand in real life so this more difficult protocol was established. Bullets that reliably expand through 4 layers of denim followed by 10% ballistics gelatin have demonstrated more robust expansion and superior terminal performance in the real world.

fredj338
01-03-2010, 14:36
can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera, can i get a do, ooh, ohh, vera ? NOPE!

:cool:


really?


what proof can you offer that suggests it can? or, is it just the fact your sitting on a mess of ammo you need to feel good about?
Test 10rds & see if they all look the same. You'll find some will be diff. especially from diff lots. I've tested the very same 165grGD & gotten better results than shown. To think ANY bullet/ammo is going to be 100% from shot to shot is just a bit nieve.

DRT
01-03-2010, 14:39
Test 10rds & see if they all look the same. You'll find some will be diff. especially from diff lots. I've tested the very same 165grGD & gotten better results than shown. To think ANY bullet/ammo is going to be 100% from shot to shot is just a bit nieve.

I don't think TWS's results are out of the ordinary. I've tested 165gr Gold Dot on several occassions, from different lots, and my results were similar to those above. It's also interesting to note that speer's own ballistics data for 165gr gold dot through 4 layers of denim shows nearly identical expansion at .583". Check out the link that I posted above.

Did you test through 4 layers of denim? If so, can you post pics of the projectiles?

glocksterr
01-03-2010, 14:57
Unclear as to what the first line of rambling is supposed to mean, and
Not sure why you would be asking for proof, as I clearly said it COULD happen, not that it WOULD happen or that i've seen it happen. I was merely pointing out the fact, that one test does not show the HST to be superior to the Winchester or vice versa. For your information I have zero HST's, 50 165gr Ranger T's, and my typical carry round is Speer GD 125gr 357sig. The only thing I need to feel good about, is how accurate I am with my pistol, and I feel very good about that.


my bad!


if your going to test more than one, seems the proper thing to do its test like 5 and take a looksie.


proof?

you could call it that. i guess what im getting @ is your statement "the same thing could have happened to them."


what makes you say it could or would happen. if you have such knowledge, ok. or is it "the same thing could have happened to them." because i say so?

hurley842002
01-03-2010, 15:58
proof?

you could call it that. i guess what im getting @ is your statement "the same thing could have happened to them."


what makes you say it could or would happen. if you have such knowledge, ok. or is it "the same thing could have happened to them." because i say so?

First off, let me make myself clear, so there is no confusion. I don't prefer the Ranger T's over the HST or vice versa. Provided both rounds are reliable in my pistol, I would have NO problem carrying either of them for personal protection. The only brand of the two that I currently have are 165gr 40s&w Ranger T's, and they are the only brand of the two that I have done any sort of "backyard testing" with.

There is a huge difference between the phrases "Could" and "Would". I said "the same thing COULD have happened to them." I don't have knowledge of HST's not expanding properly, COULD it happen? Probably, and that is just me saying so, which I don't think is too harsh of a statement towards the HST.

TWS G26
01-03-2010, 19:37
Thx TWS G26. Your HST and Gold Dot results closely mirror results from my own testing. The Ranger Tseries did fair better in my testing, however. For reference, here's where I posted pictures of my test results.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157528

Here's ATK's data for comparison, HST vs Gold Dot. Since ATK makes both brands there should be no reason for bias.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/HSTInsertPoster.pdf

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

The .40 180gr HST penetrates >12", expands reliably and large, and even holds together through various intermediate barriers, including glass.

I agree that the Ranger T series results are interesting. For me, it's been very reliable through denim, even out of a G27. Maybe I'll send some more Ranger Tseries to TWS, along with a few 165gr HSTs, when the weather breaks if he's interested in additional testing.


DRT, if you want to send more ammo, I'm up for it. No rush, as it's too cold here for testing. I'm using studio lights for filming in the garage this time of year and at 500 watts each, they get hot fast and don't like frigid temps...burned up one today. With regard to .40, I just received some 180 gr Gold Dots from someone local and will test those once the weather breaks somewhat.

DWARREN123
01-03-2010, 20:16
If you are hit in the right place with enough of them I do not believe it will matter which one was used.
I do like 180gr bullets for the 40 S&W.

thegriz18
01-03-2010, 21:52
Nice pics, I think the 165grn Ranger has a lot of potential and deserves a re-do. It's a fantastic load but unfortunately only half expanded in your test for some reason.

I agree. I did the same test using wet pack. I fired 10 rounds. Five through bare wet pack and five through 4 layer denim. All of them expanded as advertised.

Brucev
01-04-2010, 07:07
Stupid question... but what is a HST? Sincerely. Brucev.

Ak.Hiker
01-05-2010, 00:13
The HST is one of Federal's top law enforcement handgun bullet designs. If you go to le.atk.com you can read more about it.

glocksterr
01-05-2010, 06:58
Stupid question... but what is a HST? Sincerely. Brucev.

Hada Shoot Twice

BadAndy
01-05-2010, 13:31
I really wish Federal sold the HST bullets for reloaders.

den888
01-06-2010, 00:03
HST looks pretty good !!!

s2r
01-07-2010, 00:23
HST looks pretty good !!!

Here is a .40 180 gr HST I pulled out of a White Tailed buck I killed yesterday on my Uncles place here in South Texas. He went down after I shot him with my rifle and when I was within 7 yards of him he stood up and looked at me. I pulled out my Glock 23 and shot him behind the shoulder and down he went. The bullet was just under the skin on the opposite side. I’m convinced they work.



http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/s2r600/DSCN0042.jpg

Ak.Hiker
01-07-2010, 01:09
That is impressive performance on a game animal. No wonder the owner of the Speer-Federal ammo shop that I trade with carries the 230 grain +P HST in his .45 when out on his snowmachine as his protection load.