Scope a Flat-Top with a standard front sight. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TnShooter83
01-06-2010, 19:22
After searching for awhile, I finallaly found an AR rifle with a Flat-top that will work with my budget. (I hope).

The problem is, that it has a standard AR front sight. Like the the ones used on the carry handle style. (Forgive me, I'm new to ARs and don't know the technical names of the parts)

How would I go about scoping this AR with that "huge" front sight in the way?
If I do find a way to get it pretty much above the sight, will the scope adjust enough down in elevation to even work with out having a zero of like 600+ yards?

Or will the front sight even been seen in the scope?
I know with MANY of my bolt actions the sight are not seen in the scope, and they are obstructing 1/4 of the front lens.

Thanks for any help.....
I just don't want to buy something only to have it NOT work the way I hope it will...

NeverMore1701
01-06-2010, 19:45
You shouldn't even notice it.

Alaskapopo
01-06-2010, 19:47
Nevermore is right. Zero like normal you will not notice the sight at 4x and above. At lower mags its is not an issue but you will see it.
Pat

mattyk6
01-06-2010, 20:15
You must be using a scope base that raises the scope a bit, because if I use normal rings mounted to the flattop, I can't see past the front sight using a Leupold 4x scope.

Alaskapopo
01-06-2010, 20:28
You must be using a scope base that raises the scope a bit, because if I use normal rings mounted to the flattop, I can't see past the front sight using a Leupold 4x scope.

You need to use a mount that places the scope at the same height the Irons would be. Such as Larue.
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=157

Here is one of my guns with a fixed front sight.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/DanielDefenseM4.jpg

Chuck TX
01-06-2010, 22:35
Slightly taller scope rings will do the trick if you don't want to spend much. That's what I used to use, or short rings with a riser.

The preferable way to mount a mag scope, IMO, would be with QD scope mount like Bobro (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Bobro-Engineering-Precision-Optic-Mount-1-p/b03-202-254.htm), LaRue (http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=30), or ADM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/American-Defense-RECON-Scope-Mount-1-inch-rings-p/ad%20recon%201in.htm). I prefer the Bobro's attachment method, but they're all fine scope mounts. Downside is they'll run you $170-230, but you'll be able to remove it and put it back on without losing zero. Depends if that's something you need.

desertfox
01-06-2010, 22:40
i believe in having the scope as close to the center of the bore as possible. I have found the if you use a low power scope you can see the friend sight, but it is not a problem. anything above 4 power and your not going to really notice it, maybe just a small shadow in the bottom.

tedg-23
01-06-2010, 22:51
I use a Burris P.E.P.R mount with a Millet DMS scope. Got less than $300 into the two of them and the front site is not a issue at all.

Alaskapopo
01-06-2010, 23:27
i believe in having the scope as close to the center of the bore as possible. I have found the if you use a low power scope you can see the friend sight, but it is not a problem. anything above 4 power and your not going to really notice it, maybe just a small shadow in the bottom.

On an Ar the scope should not be lower than where the irons would be mainly because you will not be able to get a good cheek weld with a really low optic.
Pat

duncan
01-07-2010, 00:10
If you are buying a scope . . .

Usually shoot at 100 yards plus . . .

Where acuracy is important . . .

Where I would free float my hardguards . . .

And if you free float your handguards . . .

You can put a low profile gas block . .

Eliminating that standard FSB.

If you scope it, free float and ditch the FSB.

Alaskapopo
01-07-2010, 01:21
If you are buying a scope . . .

Usually shoot at 100 yards plus . . .

Where acuracy is important . . .

Where I would free float my hardguards . . .

And if you free float your handguards . . .

You can put a low profile gas block . .

Eliminating that standard FSB.

If you scope it, free float and ditch the FSB.
I prefer not to have a front sight base but you don't have to ditch it. Scopes work just fine with or without it.
pat

TnShooter83
01-07-2010, 12:22
If you are buying a scope . . .

Usually shoot at 100 yards plus . . .

Where acuracy is important . . .

Where I would free float my hardguards . . .

And if you free float your handguards . . .

You can put a low profile gas block . .

Eliminating that standard FSB.

If you scope it, free float and ditch the FSB.

I think I should send the extra money and get the heavier barrel, and no front sight. Sounds like it will be just as expensive both ways?

Thanks Everyone for the help. I'll just opt for the DPMS LoPro Classic if I can find one. I'm stuck at around an $800.00 budget...

jobob
01-07-2010, 14:16
I recently put a lightwieght Bushy flat top w/front sight tower on a Cavalry Arms lower. My scope is a 1-3x Weaver, which is a great low power AR scope, btw. The mount I usually like without spending too much money is the Armalite one piece because it places the center line of the scope right at the height of the normal iron sights, and it can be mounted forward for enough to the the eye relief I need. With this settup, though, I was looking through the front sight on low power, and it was also visible enough to be distracting at 3x. So, I switched to a Burris PEPR mount, which is a bit higher, and I'm very happy with it. Yeah, you can still see the fs, but it's below the crosshairs and isn't distracting.

On guns without the front tower the Aramlite mount is just about perfect. Unless QD is a really important feature for you, in which case the LaRue is probably the best there is.

vafish
01-07-2010, 14:22
I think I should send the extra money and get the heavier barrel, and no front sight. Sounds like it will be just as expensive both ways?

Thanks Everyone for the help. I'll just opt for the DPMS LoPro Classic if I can find one. I'm stuck at around an $800.00 budget...

What's the flat top option you were looking at for $800?

It may be a better choice than the DPMS Lo-Pro.

The front sight tower really doesn't block your view that much. As others have said, you see it, but it's not a big deal.

NeverMore1701
01-07-2010, 14:27
I'd take a good look at Stag in that price range.

RLCbushpilot
02-07-2010, 12:02
Take a look at Del-Ton. They make great stuff. You could build your own for between $550 and $650. Or they sell complete rifles for around $750. I just finished a flat top build and I'm in your boat. I got a standard front sight. I'm going to put a Burris Fairfield II 3x-9X on it in a Burris P.E.P.R mount. A friend of mine has that setup and loves it.

1811guy
02-07-2010, 12:58
If you are buying a scope . . .

Usually shoot at 100 yards plus . . .

Where acuracy is important . . .

Where I would free float my hardguards . . .

And if you free float your handguards . . .

You can put a low profile gas block . .

Eliminating that standard FSB.

If you scope it, free float and ditch the FSB.

If you talk...

Like you write...

You might have asthma...

Or emphyzema...

Or live at very high altitudes.





















Sorry - I couldn't resist.

Jitterbug
03-15-2010, 12:45
I think the question has been answered, but since I just got of the phone with LaRue, I wanted to double check.

I have a standard front site post. I shoot nose to the charging handle.

Ordered a LT-139 with both 30mm and 1" rings.
I'm planning on trying to run a 1" Leopold 3x9x40 for load workup and range work, then swap out the rings and use the same mount for a Vortex 1-4 Viper when they become available or Burris XTR 1-4, I'm still waiting on the reviews and availability on the 30mm Vortex.

My questions is about the front sight getting in the way? From the post above it sounds like it will be visible on the lower power settings, but below the crosshair, do I have this right?

Should I be concerned about the LT-139 being to far forward? Will this cause issues with the front sight versus the LT-104?

Frog1
03-17-2010, 18:59
I agree, build. Just completed range testing two very inexpensive 20" flat top guns. Half inch groups at 100 yards with Privi 62 grain FMJ ammo.

Bushnell Trophy 3x9 inch scope on cheap CAA rings. Cheap free float tubes, cheap Mossberg barrels, Delton bcg and trigger group. DSA blem lower with a Bcm-non ramped upper. Total investment for each gun, $600.00.

I won't buy anyone else's guns anymore. I prefer to roll my own.

Alaskapopo
03-17-2010, 20:10
I agree, build. Just completed range testing two very inexpensive 20" flat top guns. Half inch groups at 100 yards with Privi 62 grain FMJ ammo.

Bushnell Trophy 3x9 inch scope on cheap CAA rings. Cheap free float tubes, cheap Mossberg barrels, Delton bcg and trigger group. DSA blem lower with a Bcm-non ramped upper. Total investment for each gun, $600.00.

I won't buy anyone else's guns anymore. I prefer to roll my own.

3 shot or 5 shot groups?

faawrenchbndr
03-18-2010, 05:54
I agree, build. Just completed range testing two very inexpensive 20" flat top guns. Half inch groups at 100 yards with Privi 62 grain FMJ ammo.

Bushnell Trophy 3x9 inch scope on cheap CAA rings. Cheap free float tubes, cheap Mossberg barrels, Delton bcg and trigger group. DSA blem lower with a Bcm-non ramped upper. Total investment for each gun, $600.00.

I won't buy anyone else's guns anymore. I prefer to roll my own.

Hmmmmm, I'd like to see that. :supergrin:

faawrenchbndr
03-18-2010, 05:55
If you talk...

Like you write...

You might have asthma...

Or emphyzema...

Or live at very high altitudes.





















Sorry - I couldn't resist.


Give Stevie a break Malcom!

Glock-it-to-me
03-18-2010, 07:42
Mine worked fine with a 4x ACOG on a LaRue mount. When I was given an EOTech, things changed. The front sight had to go.

Kentak
03-18-2010, 08:38
I think the question has been answered, but since I just got of the phone with LaRue, I wanted to double check.

I have a standard front site post. I shoot nose to the charging handle.

Ordered a LT-139 with both 30mm and 1" rings.
I'm planning on trying to run a 1" Leopold 3x9x40 for load workup and range work, then swap out the rings and use the same mount for a Vortex 1-4 Viper when they become available or Burris XTR 1-4, I'm still waiting on the reviews and availability on the 30mm Vortex.

My questions is about the front sight getting in the way? From the post above it sounds like it will be visible on the lower power settings, but below the crosshair, do I have this right?

Should I be concerned about the LT-139 being to far forward? Will this cause issues with the front sight versus the LT-104?

If the optical center of the scope is even a little above the front sight, it won't obstruct the crosshairs, though at lower power it might be distracting. At higher power, the narrower field of view either bypasses the FSB completely or the image of the FSB is so blurred that no obscuring image is formed. At 9x, a pencil held at FSB distance from my 3-9 is completely invisible. Technically, this causes a slight decrease in image contrast which could affect visibility in very low light, but it doesn't degrade accuracy.

As far as the scope being too far forward, won't that be a factor of the scope's optical eye relief rather than the design of the base?

Kentak
03-18-2010, 08:47
Mine worked fine with a 4x ACOG on a LaRue mount. When I was given an EOTech, things changed. The front sight had to go.

Why? Lot's of people use EO's with standard FSB.

Glock-it-to-me
03-18-2010, 09:00
Why? Lot's of people use EO's with standard FSB.

It's a field of vision thing for me. My dominate eye tends to focus on the front sight. I had LASIK 4 months ago and it changed the way I look at things.

AZ Husker
03-18-2010, 09:06
I love the option of co-witness through my EOTech.

faawrenchbndr
03-18-2010, 09:30
It's a field of vision thing for me. My dominate eye tends to focus on the front sight. I had LASIK 4 months ago and it changed the way I look at things.

Gotta love it,....I had it done in '05 :supergrin:

Jitterbug
03-23-2010, 14:51
The LaRue SPR-E also known as the LT-139 mount showed up today, I mounted up my 3x9x40 Leopold, so far so good. I mounted it just forward of the Magpul RBUIS and was able to easily adjust for eye relief at 9x. Even got a hat, beer bottle opener and some BBQ rub.

Now if I could only get to the range, I'll see what this 16" Stainless BCM can do!

Man it's sweet when things come together!