.45ACP 230gr +P HST anyone? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RMTactical
01-09-2010, 23:31
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6352.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6346.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6354.jpg

I compared it to 230gr Tactical Bonded. I will get those other pictures up sometime soon. They will all be posted on my blog soon.

http://www.minutemanreview.com/

squirrelsniper
01-10-2010, 00:08
230gr +P HST is one of my preferred carry rounds for my 1911s due to tests that appear to be similar to yours. Issue ammo for my TLE II is 230gr +P Tactical Bonded, so I'd be interested in seeing those pics too, though in my opinion it too seems to be great performer even if it doesn't have the awesome expansion of the HST.

NEOH212
01-10-2010, 00:19
Good stuff! :wavey:

dakrat
01-10-2010, 08:28
thats a beautiful flower :)

beforeobamabans
01-10-2010, 09:59
Beautiful stuff. On par with Ranger RA45TP in my book.

triggerjerk
01-10-2010, 10:29
Nice pics.
Although I find HST +p and Ranger T +p a handful in my dw cco.

moncoacp
01-10-2010, 11:07
I got some Remington Golden Sabre 185gr JHP for self defense carry because I got a deal on it. Will it do the job or do I really need the 230gr? I practice with Federal 230gr FMJ or Speer Lawman 230gr TMJ.

jeb_ingram
01-10-2010, 11:15
RMTactical, where did you get those HSTs around here?

(Is it Rocky Mounitan or returned missionary?)

mastrbloata
01-10-2010, 11:23
Scored around 450 rounds of it before our esteemed President assumed office. It's loaded in my G-21 now. I'm FINALLY seeing 50 boxes (very few) at shows for $40.00 a whack and I saw some On-line vendor had them for $39.99 a 50 box. They are awesome alright. I can't wait to see your bonded results. Very cool. Thanx.

mastrbloata
01-10-2010, 11:27
RMTactical, where did you get those HSTs around here?

(Is it Rocky Mounitan or returned missionary?)
It's not "around here" per say (where ever that is) but here's some.:wavey:


http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/cPath/23_76_122/products_id/1393

SDGlock23
01-10-2010, 18:32
Very nice, I often use the very same combo, a DW CBOB and 230gr +P HST's :thumbsup:

RMTactical
01-10-2010, 18:44
OK, here is the Tactical Bonded vs the HST (both 230gr +P). The TB penetrated into the 4th jug, but the mushroom is less dramatic.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6381.jpg

In this picture (below), you can see all of the TB bullets we tested. The one in the center was shot through a pickle jar first to simulate a glass barrier (may not be totally realistic, I am sure a windshield is much harder to penetrate, but it was a barrier of some sort nonetheless). You may be able to see some glass shards imbedded in the lead. The bullet was obviously much more deformed than the others but it stayed together pretty well and still expanded very well, as well as penetrating to the 4th jug.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u87/RMTactical/IMG_6386.jpg

The two bullets flanking the center JHP were both shot through into bare jugs. As you can see one of the petals sheared off of one of them. All bullets penetrated into the 4th jug. Even the sheared petal of the JHP on the left was recovered in the 4th jug as well.

Hope you guys enjoy.

decibels5
01-10-2010, 19:01
I would hate to be on the receiving end of that one. :50cal:

squirrelsniper
01-11-2010, 02:26
Thanks for posting pics. It's about what I expected to see, the HST offering dramatic expansion and the Tactical Bonded offering good expansion with a bit more penetration. IMO, both rounds are some of the best performers available in 45 ACP.

PghJim
01-11-2010, 22:15
I got some Remington Golden Sabre 185gr JHP for self defense carry because I got a deal on it. Will it do the job or do I really need the 230gr?

There is a lot to be said for the 185 GS, look at the link. I think this data was before HST's

http://www.handloads.org/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All

moncoacp
01-12-2010, 09:46
There is a lot to be said for the 185 GS, look at the link. I think this data was before HST's

http://www.handloads.org/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All

Thanks. Look like I can count on this ammo in a tough situation. I may gradually weed it out during practice and get some of the 230 gr ammo discussed here.

mastrbloata
01-13-2010, 17:26
I've bought and used 185gr.+P .45acp Golden Sabers (I realize that you aren't talking about +P) after I saw some pretty impressive gel tests with it. However, after more and more reading, I began to notice that it had a reputation as a jacket shedder. I like the round and I believe that they make a bonded version of that round but I doubt that it exhibits the great wound channel characteristics (at least in gel) that the non bonded version does. It seems as though the 230 grain GS also sheds its jacket quite a bit. Granted, these are just obeservations made by reading about the round, not by me actually testing it for myself so take it for what its worth.

PghJim
01-13-2010, 18:31
I use GS 185gr +P because I shoot it out of a 4" barrel and that gives me about the same velocity as the regular GS185 out of a 5" barrel. I have done alot of testing with this round and never had a jacket separation.

beforeobamabans
01-13-2010, 18:36
I've bought and used 185gr.+P .45acp Golden Sabers (I realize that you aren't talking about +P) after I saw some pretty impressive gel tests with it. However, after more and more reading, I began to notice that it had a reputation as a jacket shedder. I like the round and I believe that they make a bonded version of that round but I doubt that it exhibits the great wound channel characteristics (at least in gel) that the non bonded version does. It seems as though the 230 grain GS also sheds its jacket quite a bit. Granted, these are just obeservations made by reading about the round, not by me actually testing it for myself so take it for what its worth.
The more time you spend studying "wound ballistics", the more you will come to the ultimate conclusion that none of these minute differences makes a hair's worth of split. The GS is a fine JHP, whether in 185 or 230 or +p. So is the HST. So is the Ranger. So is the Gold Dot. Load any in your 45 with confidence. Practice so that you can do your job and deliver the round to COM.

PghJim
01-13-2010, 18:46
The more time you spend studying "wound ballistics", the more you will come to the ultimate conclusion that none of these minute differences makes a hair's worth of split. The GS is a fine JHP, whether in 185 or 230 or +p. So is the HST. So is the Ranger. So is the Gold Dot. Load any in your 45 with confidence. Practice so that you can do your job and deliver the round to COM.

Isn't this Caliber Corner. What else are we going to discuss here?

mastrbloata
01-13-2010, 19:09
The more time you spend studying "wound ballistics", the more you will come to the ultimate conclusion that none of these minute differences makes a hair's worth of split. The GS is a fine JHP, whether in 185 or 230 or +p. So is the HST. So is the Ranger. So is the Gold Dot. Load any in your 45 with confidence. Practice so that you can do your job and deliver the round to COM. Frankly, I've rather come to quite the opposite conclusion as yourself. The more I study this, the more I'm seeing dramatic differences in a bullets performance with respect to its ability to perform as advertised. I agree that making a good shot trumps all but if the study of "wound ballistics" is over rated, someone needs to tell the ammunition engineers and manufactureres to stop fiddling with all that baloney and just start pumping out strictly good old fashioned FMJ, and dispense with the rest of the silliness of expansion, wound ballistics, bonding, non bonding, penetration, and any other marketing gimmicks that keep us nerds fascinated with caliber corner.

RMTactical
01-14-2010, 03:14
Isn't this Caliber Corner. What else are we going to discuss here?

Well put. I agree.

I believe wholeheartedly that there is simply no substitute for shot placement.

However, this is caliber corner. I like to discuss this stuff because it is fun to talk about, test, and read about, but I do believe training to be ready for an encounter is more vital than the specific load you chose.

Ak.Hiker
01-15-2010, 00:59
Frankly, I've rather come to quite the opposite conclusion as yourself. The more I study this, the more I'm seeing dramatic differences in a bullets performance with respect to its ability to perform as advertised. I agree that making a good shot trumps all but if the study of "wound ballistics" is over rated, someone needs to tell the ammunition engineers and manufactureres to stop fiddling with all that baloney and just start pumping out strictly good old fashioned FMJ, and dispense with the rest of the silliness of expansion, wound ballistics, bonding, non bonding, penetration, and any other marketing gimmicks that keep us nerds fascinated with caliber corner.

Then we could spend our money on more guns. They come out something new just about weekly.