Giving up on my CZ 452 - Find me a good .22WMR rifle. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Mercedesrover
01-11-2010, 05:39
I've had my CZ 452 American for almost a year now and I just can't seem to dial it in. I've floated the barrel and installed a Brooks kit. Didn't seem to help much. Out of a 5-round mag at 50-yards I'm getting 3 maybe within 2", maybe, and two fliers off into the wild blue yonder. I've tried a dozen different brands of ammo, warm barrel, cold barrel....nothing seems to help.

Just yesterday I had it out on the range for another try and also brought along a 9422m that I just bought to sight a scope in on it. This old lever gun was shooting circles around this CZ. I mounted an old Bushnell 4x scope on it and was drilling 1" groups at 50 yards. So much for the CZ...

Anyway, I want to find a bolt-gun that will do sub-1" at 50 yards and 2" at 100 yards. I don't think I'm asking too much, though I know that .22wmr isn't the most accurate round in the world. I don't really want a varmint barrel as it won't get shot a lot, though if ya'll think that makes a huge difference in accuracy, I'm open to it.

So I'm looking at the Savage 93 Classic. It's a pretty thing and I like the 24" barrel. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

goosedowner1
01-11-2010, 18:02
The Sako quad's in WMR have a very good reputation. Last year I got a bug for a accurate WMR and after spending a lot of time on rim fire central I decided to buyt a quad, since then I have mounted a scope on it and have yet to sight it in. So much for the bug. LOL
It is a nice gun and it has a adjustable trigger.

ElevatedThreat
01-11-2010, 19:25
Don't give up on that CZ. It's an excellent gun, and should shoot well.

Obvious questions first:

1) Is the barrel clean or full of lead and old wax lube? Inspect with a bore scope if you know someone who has one.

2) The fliers you describe sound like they could be caused by a damaged muzzle crown. CZs usually have good crowns, but there can be exceptions.

Inspect the crown visually, and if there is any doubt about it, have it re-cut. (Be careful of the crown when cleaning -- most crown damage is done during cleaning....)

If the barrel is clean and the crown is properly cut and undamaged, try these steps in order:

1) Bed the action with some AcraGlass Gel where the screws pull it into the stock.

2) If it does not shoot well with the action properly bedded and the barrel fully floated, bed the first couple of inches of the barrel.

3) If still no joy, try some cardboard pressure points against the barrel just back of the tip of the fore end. If that gives good accuracy, replace the cardboard with little columns of AcraGlass Gel.

Somewhere in that process you should get good accuracy.

-ET

FLIPPER 348
01-12-2010, 01:16
sell it and buy a .17HMR

CMG
01-12-2010, 07:05
Don't give up on that CZ. It's an excellent gun, and should shoot well.


-ET

Lemons happen in every manufacturing environment... :whistling:

ElevatedThreat
01-12-2010, 20:46
Lemons happen in every manufacturing environment... :whistling:

That's true, but unless the barrel itself is fundamentally bad -- which seems unlikely with a CZ -- any problems with the action bedding or the muzzle crown can likely be found and fixed.

Until those possible causes have been systematically investigated and ruled out, it is too early to give up on the whole rifle.

-ET

ElevatedThreat
01-12-2010, 20:49
By the way, another area to investigate is the rifle's scope and its mountings, even if all seems tight.

I've cured mystery accuracy problems in people's rifles by replacing the scope base, rings, and scope -- even when there was nothing apparently wrong with the existing setup.

Scopes go bad all the time, and play can exist in bases and rings even when the screws are tight.

-ET

Mercedesrover
01-13-2010, 05:19
Thanks all. Although I floated this barrel when the rifle was new, I pulled the stock and gave it a bit more clearance. I really don't think it was touching but a little extra room can't hurt.

The barrel is clean and the crown looks fine (to the naked eye).

The scope is mounted with a Rimfire Technology base (http://www.rimfiretechnologies.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=42) and Weaver Quad Lock (http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/quadlock/quadlock.aspx) rings. The scope is a Nikon Monarch 6-24x50 and I've always had good luck with Nikon scopes.

I'll try bedding the action and give this thing one more go. Unfortunately I won't be able to get back out and shoot this girl for a couple of weeks now, but I'll report back when I do.

If that doesn't help, it's going back to CZ. I've already gotten in touch with them and they seem great and willing to help any way they can.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I'll let you know how I make out!

hagar
01-13-2010, 10:08
Both my Ruger stainless bolt action and my Marlin 922M 22 magnums shoot very well with Winchester ammo, with others just so-so. Winchestes has a real copper jacketed bullet, most other makes just a copper plated bullet. Try the 34 grain SXT's or 40 grain hollow points.

Mercedesrover
01-17-2010, 14:32
Well, I floated this barrel and made sure there was plenty of clearance all around. I took this CZ to the range today along with a 1974-built Winchester 9422M to have another go at it. I also brought six different brands/types of ammo.

The CZ has a Nikon Monarch 6-24x50 scope
The Winchester has an old Bushnell 4x38 wide angle scope
Shots were taken at 110 yards.
The targets are 6" wide.

Here is the target with 6 shots from the CZ:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/cz-target.jpg

Here is the target with 10 shots from the Winchester:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/winchester-target.jpg

Pretty sad that this old lever gun with an old 4x fixed-power scope out shoots this fancy CZ with a very good scope on it. I will box it up and get it back to CZ this week.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

DriBak
01-23-2010, 16:49
Keep us posted

FLIPPER 348
01-23-2010, 16:54
Here is the target with 6 shots from the CZ:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/cz-target.jpg


Thanks for all the help and suggestions.



....with a $200 Marlin .17 and a $100 scope ALL your shots could have been in that little gray circle

Indy_Guy_77
01-26-2010, 14:38
Are you lifting your head between shots...when you cycle the bolt?

Berto
01-27-2010, 20:50
Man....that is weird.
Did you test the gun before you did the accurizing?

Mercedesrover
01-28-2010, 16:09
Did you test the gun before you did the accurizing?

Yup. It was fired fresh out of the box after a good clean/lube, etc. For a year and at least a dozen trips to the range it's always shot exactly like this.

It ships back to CZ tomorrow and with a little luck they can figure it out. I'm sure it'll take a while but I'll keep you posted.

Berto
01-29-2010, 18:21
Strange, gotta wonder if it's the rifling twist or maybe bore diameter is off.

Another Miller
01-29-2010, 20:01
Probably bad rifling somewhere in the barrel.close to the chamber




Savage makes excellent rifles, +100 on that.

Darkangel1846
01-30-2010, 14:14
Dude there is something drastically wrong with either that rifle or the scope. try another scope & shoot at 50 yards. If the same problem continues then call the company.
I have a Marlin 25MN(.22 mag) that I picked up years ago for $125.00. Using Federal 50 gr ammo I can put all 7 rounds in a 1 inch circle at 100 yards. Now I know that most CZs can at least do that so I know something is just wrong with your rifle or scope.

bambikilr
01-30-2010, 14:19
i have a savage model 93, with a cheap bushnell 3x9, i can shoot sub 1" at 100yards, not a bull barel either...love mine...good luck

bambikilr
01-30-2010, 14:21
oh yeah, i shoot wichester super X 40 grain hollow points

dfryabq
02-03-2010, 11:39
You really need to try a different scope. These groups are typical of a scope gone bad, or bases/rings not tight. Changing and trying another scope will be the quickest way to eliminate the scope as an issue. Don't think that Nikons can't go bad, I just had a 30mm 4.5x-14x50 tactical go south on me. One day was shooting bench reast groups, next time out was grouping 3 moa. Changed to another scope to verify and the groups were back down. It's on its way back to Nikon for repair. At least if you try another scope and there is not change, you will know for sure that it is something else and can look elsewhere. But when you have groups like this, it is best to always check the mounting and then if that has no change, go to another known scope that you know is still fully functional. You may jsut get lucky and its the scope and don't have to look for other issues. Once you do that, then you can be concerned with rifling, bedding, crown, etc.

Mercedesrover
02-03-2010, 14:34
You really need to try a different scope....

I've had three different scope on it. All did just the same.

The rifle arrived at CZ in Kansas City today. Will keep you all posted on what they find and the results when I get it back.

ElevatedThreat
02-06-2010, 18:46
Not to be TOO much of a jerk, but did you have someone else try the rifle?

After looking at both of those targets, I'd not send the rifle back until someone known to be a skilled rifle shot had struck out with it.

-ET

Mercedesrover
02-07-2010, 03:01
Not to be TOO much of a jerk.....-ET

No worries. No offense.

I know that second target isn't really that impressive looking, but keep in mind it was a 36-year old lever gun with an old 4x scope at 100 yards, and that we're talking .22WMR here. If that second target was shot with a more accurate rifle and round I would be embarrassed by it. And not that I'm the best shooter in the world by a long shot, but I have a Tikka in .270 that I can hit a 1" or so circle at 100 yards with all day long.

And to answer you question, yes, a good friend that shoots with me has tried this rifle out with the same results.

Bilbo Bagins
02-09-2010, 13:29
Well, I floated this barrel and made sure there was plenty of clearance all around. I took this CZ to the range today along with a 1974-built Winchester 9422M to have another go at it. I also brought six different brands/types of ammo.

The CZ has a Nikon Monarch 6-24x50 scope
The Winchester has an old Bushnell 4x38 wide angle scope
Shots were taken at 110 yards.
The targets are 6" wide.

Here is the target with 6 shots from the CZ:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/cz-target.jpg

Here is the target with 10 shots from the Winchester:

http://www.seriestrek.com/images/winchester-target.jpg

Pretty sad that this old lever gun with an old 4x fixed-power scope out shoots this fancy CZ with a very good scope on it. I will box it up and get it back to CZ this week.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Yea that is bad. I have a 9422M too and from the bench the CZ should outshoot it.

ChiefWPD
02-20-2010, 08:25
If you still had the gun I would have suggested you fire her at 50 yards with its iron sights (if it has iron sights...). That might help verify the scope is the problem.

Too late anyway. :wavey:

Best of luck with her.

Mercedesrover
02-20-2010, 09:31
If you still had the gun I would have suggested you fire her at 50 yards with its iron sights (if it has iron sights...). That might help verify the scope is the problem.

Good thought but the CZ American doesn't have iron sights.

It's been back at CZ USA for a couple weeks now. They say to expect 6-8 weeks before I hear anything...

Mercedesrover
03-08-2010, 10:05
Well, I was sitting at work today when a big FedEx truck pulls in. FedEx dude walks in the office with a nice big box from CZ! I wasn't expecting it....No call, no email or anything from CZ...It just shows up.

I open the box to find the following note:

"8" group at 100 yards, very random groups."
"Replaced with serial number A******."

That was it. Inside was a brand new CZ 452 2E rifle inside a new box with all the paperwork, target, etc.

Guess I'll take it to the range on Saturday and give it a go!!

BigWaveRider
04-04-2010, 10:06
....and??????

You were willing to spend alot of time telling us how crappy your rifle was ...

CZ custumer service came through and replaced it ......

Hows the new one shoot ????

trigger19isbest
04-06-2010, 05:32
The OP asked about replacing his CZ with a .22 WMR. You can't go wrong with a Marlin 25MN. Finding one may be a problem.

Titurel
04-14-2010, 02:57
That's pretty awesome, they just up and sent a whole new rifle. I'm glad to hear they came clean and upheld the high expectations that many people have for CZ .22's

Mercedesrover
04-14-2010, 14:27
To be dead-honest with you, I haven't been out to shot it yet! :upeyes:
I know, I know...It's been here for weeks. No excuse other than being busy.

I'll try to get out one night in the next week and report back.

And yes, I'm very impressed with CZ customer service. Great people!

HAMMERHEAD
04-17-2010, 19:23
I hope it shoots great, my 452 Lux in .22WMR is my best long gun.

Mercedesrover
05-11-2010, 04:48
OK then....I finally got out to the range Sunday and got to shoot the new CZ-452. I think we have a winner.

It was a little bit windy out but between gusts it was shooting pretty darn well. Certainly a world of difference to the old one. I shot a few different brands and the most accurate seemed to be Winchester Super-X FMJ 40-grain. Like I said, it was a bit windy Sunday but I was still getting 2" groups at 110 yards. I'm happy with that considering it's a .22 mag.

HAMMERHEAD
05-12-2010, 21:07
Good to hear. Mine will do about 1" at 100 with CCI Maxi Mag 40 grain JHP's, try those.

txpitdog
05-16-2010, 19:40
Yeah, that's crazy my 452Lux will put 5 rounds into a dime at 25 and a nickel at 50