Hawaii Says ANY Alcohol Voids LEOSA [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Captain38
01-11-2010, 14:05
http://hawaii.gov/ag/LEO/Guidelines%20QRLEO.pdf

Those active or retired law enforcement officers planning on traveling to Hawaii should take note of the state's policy regarding LEOSA, which, in part, reads as follows:

1. Note: Hawaii’s LEOSA Firearm Policy takes a zero
tolerance position on carrying a concealed firearm
while “under the influence” of alcohol or intoxicating or
hallucinatory drugs or substances. The LEOSA
Firearm Policy defines “under the influence” as “any
amount of alcohol or other intoxicating or hallucinatory
drug or substance, in the blood or breath.” The policy
further states that “if a Qualified Retired Law
Enforcement Officer violates 18 U.S.C. §926C(c)(6),
by being under the influence of alcohol or other
intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance while
carrying a concealed firearm, he/she will be viewed as
a Non-qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer and
shall be subject to all State of Hawaii laws including
271185_1.DOC 2
but not limited to State of Hawaii firearms laws in
chapter 134 of the Hawaii Revised Statues.”

Mayhem like Me
01-11-2010, 14:28
Too bad that is not what the Federal LAW says, state policy let alone one that has not been tested in court is not a standard.

Click on the link it says right at the top this policy is NOT a legal opinion..

Dragoon44
01-11-2010, 14:54
Well that just sucks, I would have to be drunk in order to convince myself to go park my ass on an island chain that is in reality active volcanoes.

:rofl::rofl:

blueiron
01-11-2010, 14:59
Based on the amount of time I spent at Kaneohe Bay on Oahu, I have plans to never set foot in Hawaii again.

The arrogance and intolerance I saw on Oahu were incredible.

Malstorme
01-11-2010, 14:59
(Hawaii's) LEOSA
Firearm Policy defines “under the influence” as “any
amount of alcohol or other intoxicating or hallucinatory
drug or substance, in the blood or breath.”

Dunno about that one. LEOSA specifically supercedes most state laws pertaining to LE Officers' right to carry a firearm. The only federal BAC "under the influence" guidelines I can find are .08 (driving/boating) and .04 (CMV driving). In my 2 minute search of federal guidelines, I don't see a "zero tolerance" level.

I doubt this restriction is any more constitutional than prohibiting the carry of black firearms (since they're so scary-looking). I'm a cop, not a lawyer, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Mals

trifecta
01-11-2010, 15:04
Does it also look like they are going for NJ style ammo restrictions of type of round and limit of 10 rounds? I'm no lawyer either.

evilwill
01-11-2010, 15:05
Based on the amount of time I spent at Kaneohe Bay on Oahu, I have plans to never set foot in Hawaii again.

The arrogance and intolerance I saw on Oahu were incredible.

Please elaborate, as we are planning a trip out there in the spring.

trifecta
01-11-2010, 15:12
Please elaborate, as we are planning a trip out there in the spring.

I will have to say my experience in Oct 09 was far different. Everybody I met was extremely courteous. Their politics are not mine but if you live in NYC, they are what you are used to. PM me if you like, I also lived there in the 80's.

blueiron
01-11-2010, 15:17
There are a significant number of natives in Hawaii that do not like natives of non-Hawaiian descent, non-natives, or mainlanders whatseoever. They don't claim America in any way, shape, or form.

If you are a tourist, military personnel assigned there, or have not lived there for any length of time, expect to be hustled as if you were in a foreign nation.

ateamer
01-11-2010, 15:23
I assume that the Hawaiians who hate America live in grass huts, don't drive cars, don't own any good made anywhere but in da islands and don't accept American money. If they don't, they're just bigmouthed blowhards.

ateamer
01-11-2010, 15:25
Sounds like the federal government needs to tune Hawaii up. There is no way that any court will uphold their claim that any amount of alcohol at all is being under the influence. Hell, .08 is borderline for actually being under the influence in many people.

trifecta
01-11-2010, 15:33
Sounds like the federal government needs to tune Hawaii up. There is no way that any court will uphold their claim that any amount of alcohol at all is being under the influence. Hell, .08 is borderline for actually being under the influence in many people.

I'm still not an attorney, but in TX we have Minor DUI. Drive with any amount of alcohol while underage and it's an offense. I'm not saying it matters with Federal Law or HI but no court has found a problem with it.

Also, to test it, somebody will probably have to get in trouble and take it all the way. Maybe the Feds will clean the language up some on that and a few other things like carrying duty ammo in states that prohibit it.

Mayhem like Me
01-11-2010, 15:39
If you are Caucasian and in Hawaii you are a Haole (how lee).

The rest of Hawaii's folks do not like you!

I lived this for a short period of time, luckily I played football and knew some of the Samo/Poly kids and families,,, I lived through kill Haole day my 8th grade year.. Was in Hawaii only a year and 6 months they don't like Haole...Hawaii is a beautiful and very strange strange place.

blueiron
01-11-2010, 15:40
If anything, the Feds will rescind it because some fool with tin went somewhere they shouldn't have, drunk too much, ticked off the wrong people, and got into a jam because they have zero discretion.

The Feds will restrict it more, not add freedoms about mags, ammo, and related issues

LEOSA is a good thing, not perfect mind you, but someone is eventually going to mess it all up for the rest of us.

ateamer
01-11-2010, 16:17
I'm still not an attorney, but in TX we have Minor DUI. Drive with any amount of alcohol while underage and it's an offense. I'm not saying it matters with Federal Law or HI but no court has found a problem with it.

Also, to test it, somebody will probably have to get in trouble and take it all the way. Maybe the Feds will clean the language up some on that and a few other things like carrying duty ammo in states that prohibit it.
Having a BAC limit might carry the same penalty as DUI, but the state only has to prove that the BAC was over the limit, not that the driver was under the influence. California has two DUI statutes - DUI and the .08 limit. The .08 limit is presumptive, but they don't have to prove that the alcohol in the system produced any symptoms of influence, just that the level was beyond the limit.

Either way, Hawaii is overstepping their bounds and needs to be straightened out regarding LEOSA.

Sgt127
01-11-2010, 16:21
I lived in Hawaii growing up. Public schools etc. Never had any real problems. Lived through at least 5 kill Haole days without a scratch. Went back for our honeymoon and, I guess, readopted my Hawaiin "roots" and enough pidgeon english to pass as a local. It helps if you can actually tell someone where you went to school and, don't butcher the pronunciation. Actually got treated as a local everywhere we went.

The trick is to not stay out the first day, in the sun, for 5 hours. It will burn you. Badly. And, all the locals will make fun of you for looking like a traffic cone walking around. Skip the tourist garb. Hawaiians were T shirts, shorts even jeans and flip flops, or, go barefoot.

Walk around with a bag of Crack Seed and spit the seeds out on the sidewalk. You will blend right in.

As an aside, Hawaii is extremely anit gun. When we went there, before LEOSA, it is the one trip I took without a gun. I was that paranoid. (Your bags can be searched for a Agriculture inspection going in or out)

Funny too as Hawaii does not have a public intox law as I recall. I was riding out with a HPD cop and noticed a drooling staggering drunk bumping down the sidewalk, asked him about it and he said "We gotta wait until he staggers in the street before we do anything."

Faulkner
01-11-2010, 20:48
1. Note: Hawaii’s LEOSA Firearm Policy takes a zero
tolerance position on carrying a concealed firearm
while “under the influence” of alcohol or intoxicating or
hallucinatory drugs or substances. The LEOSA
Firearm Policy defines “under the influence” as “any
amount of alcohol or other intoxicating or hallucinatory
drug or substance, in the blood or breath.”

I don't get what the beef is . . . I certainly don't have a problem with it. :upeyes:

pgg00
01-11-2010, 21:03
I grew up in Hawaii also (lived there for 10 years). Those were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met

blueiron
01-11-2010, 21:10
I grew up in Hawaii also (lived there for 10 years). Those were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met

I would agree and include American Samoa and Guam.

trifecta
01-11-2010, 21:55
I grew up in Hawaii also (lived there for 10 years). Those were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met

When I lived there in the 80's, I had that feeling. When I went back last year, it was totally different. I was only on Oahu, but was all over the island and never felt it. It was quite the opposite.

pgg00
01-11-2010, 21:59
When I lived there in the 80's, I had that feeling. When I went back last year, it was totally different. I was only on Oahu, but was all over the island and never felt it. It was quite the opposite.

I grew up in Molokai

Hearmoretalkless
01-11-2010, 22:59
I spent a week in Keihe on Maui -- people were friendly, never heard a bad word or glare against us. Lots of white people co-mingling with the darker-skinned folks. I'd go back -- nicest week I've spent in a while.

I never had a moment where I wished I was CCW either -- all I had was a couple of knives... and while I missed the weight of my chunk I didn't ever have an "oh $#it..." moment where I wished I had a gun.

YMMV

lawman800
01-12-2010, 01:01
Been to Hawaii a few times, never liked Oahu. Always thought it was just a tropical island version of any other tourist traps around the world. I loved Maui and the Big Island - Hilo side.

I still hold a grudge against Pele though for breaking up me and my then-fiancee. Damn those jealous Goddesses!

As for drinking and carrying, what's the problem?

Bearcat06
01-12-2010, 02:53
I grew up in Hawaii also (lived there for 10 years). Those were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met

I live here and haven't had any issues....at all.....

And I have been all over Oahu and to the other islands since I got back here.

Are there some places I know not to go to after dark...? Yeap....but it's like that anywhere....

I also carry on my badge from back home.....haven't had an issue yet.

I registered my (2) Glocks as required by state law.....and don't plan on drinking and carrying...

Anyone who does that is just asking for trouble no matter where they are at....

lawman800
01-12-2010, 10:58
Register your 2 Glocks?

Malstorme
01-12-2010, 11:21
Register your 2 Glocks?

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/7/70/Tomb-saaq1.jpg/600px-Tomb-saaq1.jpg

[southern drawl]I have two guns, one for each of ya...[/southern drawl]

Mals

Bearcat06
01-12-2010, 14:08
Register your 2 Glocks?

Hawaii requires all handguns to be registered.... They also "encourage" visiting LEOs to do the same thing.....even though you are covered under 218......

lawman800
01-12-2010, 22:34
I don't think I will register my handguns when visiting Hawaii... as a matter of fact, I ain't visiting Hawaii... problem solved.

G-man
01-13-2010, 00:16
I think if Hawaii made an issue and arrested an out of state LEO for their "STATE VERSION" of LEOSA I have a good feeling it will go the way of the trash can just like the Sturgis incident.

That would just mean there would be new case law for them NOT to do it again.

G-man
1*

Bearcat06
01-13-2010, 02:32
I think if Hawaii made an issue and arrested an out of state LEO for their "STATE VERSION" of LEOSA I have a good feeling it will go the way of the trash can just like the Sturgis incident.

That would just mean there would be new case law for them NOT to do it again.

G-man
1*

All the Hono PD Guys/Gals I know have flaty stated they would never arrest a LEO that hasn't registered their weapon upon entering the State......and later observed for some reason.....

As for the intoxicated and carrying part.....My personal opinion is if you do that....you are asking for trouble and need a swift kick in the ass......

billinaz
05-21-2011, 12:31
If anything, the Feds will rescind it because some fool with tin went somewhere they shouldn't have, drunk too much, ticked off the wrong people, and got into a jam because they have zero discretion.

The Feds will restrict it more, not add freedoms about mags, ammo, and related issues

LEOSA is a good thing, not perfect mind you, but someone is eventually going to mess it all up for the rest of us.

Im glad this prediction was proven wrong!

Steve in PA
05-21-2011, 18:55
http://hawaii.gov/ag/LEO/Guidelines%20QRLEO.pdf

Those active or retired law enforcement officers planning on traveling to Hawaii should take note of the state's policy regarding LEOSA, which, in part, reads as follows:

1. Note: Hawaii’s LEOSA Firearm Policy takes a zero
tolerance position on carrying a concealed firearm
while “under the influence” of alcohol or intoxicating or
hallucinatory drugs or substances. The LEOSA
Firearm Policy defines “under the influence” as “any
amount of alcohol or other intoxicating or hallucinatory
drug or substance, in the blood or breath.” The policy
further states that “if a Qualified Retired Law
Enforcement Officer violates 18 U.S.C. §926C(c)(6),
by being under the influence of alcohol or other
intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance while
carrying a concealed firearm, he/she will be viewed as
a Non-qualified Retired Law Enforcement Officer and
shall be subject to all State of Hawaii laws including
271185_1.DOC 2
but not limited to State of Hawaii firearms laws in
chapter 134 of the Hawaii Revised Statues.”

Does Hawaii have a zero tolerance for driving after having a beer or wine with dinner????

Hawaii is full of BS when it comes to LEOSA. They are trying to re-write it to fit what they want.

blueiron
05-21-2011, 19:17
Im glad this prediction was proven wrong!


The law is still in effect and just because some darn fool hasn't done something of obvious stupidity, doesn't mean we are out of the woods yet.

We all know that there are plenty of Thou Shall and Thou Shall Not department policies written because of dumb cops doing dumb things.

alaskacop556
05-22-2011, 12:41
Does it also look like they are going for NJ style ammo restrictions of type of round and limit of 10 rounds? I'm no lawyer either.

HR 218 was amemded to allow qualified LEO's to carry "evil rounds" even if states like NJ ban them for carry use (the ammedment was specific in that regard because of the hollow point issue in NJ).

It would be very interesting to see if this new "homegrown" rule in Hawaii is ever challenged. Remember the cops in Stergis a few years ago that they tried to charge for carrying in a bar? The charges were dismissed because the judge cited HR218. I am sure a few had a beer or two but had not been under the influence at the time.

Personally I do not ever drink any alcohol and handle or carry a firearm, just keeps it simple.

mrsurfboard
05-22-2011, 13:15
Obama was born in Hawaii. Enough said.

MeefZah
05-22-2011, 13:24
I don't get what the beef is . . . I certainly don't have a problem with it. :upeyes:

I agree, carrying and drinking is stupid; and they shouldn't have to legislate it.

mrsurfboard
05-22-2011, 13:28
I agree, carrying and drinking is stupid; and they shouldn't have to legislate it.

There is a big difference between drinking and being under the influence. One or two drinks with dinner is the not the same as an all night bender at the club.

fla2760
05-22-2011, 16:14
Well that just sucks, I would have to be drunk in order to convince myself to go park my ass on an island chain that is in reality active volcanoes.

:rofl::rofl:




You owe me a PC monitor, I spouted Yuban all over mine. :supergrin: