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Kicking bird
01-13-2010, 13:19
Well last night at a persoanl defence shoot i had a squib load. My springfield 45 Champion won't return to battery and i tried four or five times but the slide refused to move forward. The ranger officer running the drill reallized the problem and pushed the bullet out with a brass rod. The RO and I both agreed that we didin't hear a pop of just the primer.

I quit shooting because I was concerned about it happening again and having the bullet lodged further down the barrel and then a round fired on top of the stuck bullet.

I am very careful about my reloading habits and have a single stage press and i don't understand how I missed the uncharged case.

Now i have rough 500-600 loaded rounds to weigh to make sure theres powder in them. PITA!!! :crying:

I had other RO's state that it happens and not to sweat it. This SUCKS !!:steamed:

Colorado4Wheel
01-13-2010, 13:23
Well last night at a persoanl defence shoot i had a squib load. My springfield 45 Champion won't return to battery and i tried four or five times but the slide refused to move forward. The ranger officer running the drill reallized the problem and pushed the bullet out with a brass rod. The RO and I both agreed that we didin't hear a pop of just the primer.

I quit shooting because I was concerned about it happening again and having the bullet lodged further down the barrel and then a round fired on top of the stuck bullet.

I am very careful about my reloading habits and have a single stage press and i don't understand how I missed the uncharged case.

Now i have rough 500-600 loaded rounds to weigh to make sure theres powder in them. PITA!!! :crying:

I had other RO's state that it happens and not to sweat it. This SUCKS !!:steamed:


You can drop them in a funnel and shake them and hear the powder ratttle around inside. Tells you nothing about a double charge.

fredj338
01-13-2010, 13:25
Well last night at a persoanl defence shoot i had a squib load. My springfield 45 Champion won't return to battery and i tried four or five times but the slide refused to move forward. The ranger officer running the drill reallized the problem and pushed the bullet out with a brass rod. The RO and I both agreed that we didin't hear a pop of just the primer.

I quit shooting because I was concerned about it happening again and having the bullet lodged further down the barrel and then a round fired on top of the stuck bullet.

I am very careful about my reloading habits and have a single stage press and i don't understand how I missed the uncharged case.

Now i have rough 500-600 loaded rounds to weigh to make sure theres powder in them. PITA!!! :crying:

I had other RO's state that it happens and not to sweat it. This SUCKS !!:steamed:
What powder & charge? With some powders, it's not impossible to miss the charge by visual inspection if you are in a hurry. It's one reason I like full power or near full power loads & powders that fill more of the case (ie, TG is NOT my choice). FWIW, you will probably not have much luck finding an underloaded round by weighing it. Between the powder, bullet & case variations, unless you are looking for 8-10gr diff, it's tough to find 3-4gr.

Sierra9
01-13-2010, 13:28
[quote=Kicking bird;14537952
I had other RO's state that it happens and not to sweat it. This SUCKS !!:steamed:[/quote]


IMO, don't sweat it as long as this is range ammo and not for self defense. If you hear an uncharacteristic pop instead of a bang, don't feel the expected recoil, and don't see the target being hit, just stop right there and clear the weapon. No harm done. This why it's so important to concentrate when reloading, even though it can become monotonous.

GioaJack
01-13-2010, 13:30
Weighing each round really isn't going to set your mind at ease. You're going to get a variation in each round even with a powder charge.

Each case will have a slight variation in weight, each bullet will vary in weight and if you're shooting lead not only will there be a variation in the actual bullet but lube will also reflect variation if each grease groove is not completely filled.

You'd probably be better off just setting those rounds aside and using them for slow fire practice or target shooting.

If this is the first squib you've ever had in your loading career rest assured that it won't be your last. Any thing a human does comes with a certain degree of potential mistakes... we've all done it, and we'll all do it again.

Good luck.

Jack

Colorado4Wheel
01-13-2010, 13:41
To me, the bigger worry is

"did you put that cases charge into another case, creating a double charge?

I would put a double charge in a case and see if it's a compressed load. If it is a compressed load I would shake every case and discard any case that did not have he "woosh" of powder. If it's not a compressed load I would consider seriously the potential for a double charge and decide if it's worth shooting these rounds or not.

illrooster132
01-13-2010, 13:44
is frustating . but not a big deal. just weight the other bullets . you should be able to tell wich is not loaded.
this has happened to me . someone said . " this things happen once in a million. and if you reload a million bullets this is bound to happen to you."

sourdough44
01-13-2010, 13:44
Glad you caught it.

JuneyBooney
01-13-2010, 13:47
Well last night at a persoanl defence shoot i had a squib load. My springfield 45 Champion won't return to battery and i tried four or five times but the slide refused to move forward. The ranger officer running the drill reallized the problem and pushed the bullet out with a brass rod. The RO and I both agreed that we didin't hear a pop of just the primer.

I quit shooting because I was concerned about it happening again and having the bullet lodged further down the barrel and then a round fired on top of the stuck bullet.

I am very careful about my reloading habits and have a single stage press and i don't understand how I missed the uncharged case.

Now i have rough 500-600 loaded rounds to weigh to make sure theres powder in them. PITA!!! :crying:

I had other RO's state that it happens and not to sweat it. This SUCKS !!:steamed:

Do you weight the completed rounds to make sure they areall the same after completion?

owtlaw
01-13-2010, 13:47
I had a squib in some factory reloaded (HSM) ammo in my 45-70 last week.

Kicking bird
01-13-2010, 13:57
The RO and I didn't notice anything different as far as the rounds being fired and the the pop of a primer. That's what puzzled both of us.

I always test a double charge in a case to make a mental note of the capacity of the case. i then immediately dump the charge out.

I didn't weigh each case after loading them. I will probably just use the ammo for slow fire range work.:crying:

i will be doing some testing tonite of case weights , loaded rounds and rounds loaded with bullets and no powder.:steamed:

MSgt Dotson
01-13-2010, 14:12
Cases of different headstamps very by sometimes 2-3 grains, and bullets easily vary by 4-5 grains...

It can sometimes be very difficult to catch a load missing it's 4-5 grains of powder by weight alone.

Hydraulicman
01-13-2010, 14:54
I think loading on a progressive easier for me to pay attention .

Look for a charge and place a bullet. ONe at a time. Intead of looking at a while trey of charged cases.:dunno:

dudel
01-13-2010, 16:57
Cases of different headstamps very by sometimes 2-3 grains, and bullets easily vary by 4-5 grains...

It can sometimes be very difficult to catch a load missing it's 4-5 grains of powder by weight alone.

+1. Not only that, what if it's a partial charge?

Sorry to say, the safest way will be to pull the bullets. It's a major PITA, but the only way to know for sure. It'll take you a bunch of time; but you may be able to reuse all the components (if you use a kinetic puller and not a collet puller).

You were really pretty lucky (as was your gun!) There's a lesson there if you choose to learn it. Take a lead from C4W and rig up a light like he uses to check that powder was dumped. A small mirror angled to look into the case works well also. Use a powder that gives you a good fill in the case (makes it easier to detect a short load).

Out of curiosity, was this on a single stage, or a progressive? What else was going on while you were reloading? Do you mix headstamps (different case weights)? How were you dumping powder? How often did you weigh charges to ensure the dump had not drifted?

HTH

Don

Jon_R
01-13-2010, 17:18
I have not used this myself but on another thread a person knew he had 50 cases without powder in a ammo can of 1k rounds. He used a stethoscope pressed against the brass and shook it and was able to find the 50 rounds. Just an idea I heard but have not used myself. I also don't know how much a stethoscope costs.

Good luck. Unless you have consistent brass weighing the rounds for pistol if not going to help much. I get swings in pistol brass of + or - 5 grains as my brass is whatever I get my hands on all mixed head stamps brass nickle whatever.

farnorthwintercamper
01-14-2010, 08:26
Super bummer! as others have said weighing will not sort out your oopsie.
I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds and only had one single oopsie, but it was a doozie. I double charged a .38spl case, thank god they were low pressure wadcutter target loads so nothing got hurt!
My father a some what troubled soul use to like to come and attack me at my loading bench (where I was vulnerable to his ranting) after my double charge debacle the next time he showed up I marched him to his car and sent him on his way...
When I am at the bench my wife makes sure I am not bothered by calls or visitors! or kids. that bench is no place for drama/distraction...

PBKing
01-14-2010, 08:39
I am very careful about my reloading habits and have a single stage press and i don't understand how I missed the uncharged case.

If you are loading with your single stage and reloading tray, use a little led flashlight to check all 50 cases after charging. That little doublecheck avoids headaches down the road.

No help here checking your loaded rounds, too many variables.

Colorado4Wheel
01-14-2010, 08:43
I have not used this myself but on another thread a person knew he had 50 cases without powder in a ammo can of 1k rounds. He used a stethoscope pressed against the brass and shook it and was able to find the 50 rounds. Just an idea I heard but have not used myself. I also don't know how much a stethoscope costs.


As already stated, drop the case in a plastic funnel. Shake the case. Plastic funnel is like a stethoscope. You can hear the powder easily. The Lee Red Plastic Funnel is perfect for this as it's hard plastic and very loud when you shake the case compared to some plastics.

REDDAWN
01-14-2010, 08:58
When you drop the hammer on a Loaded round, And it does't go BANG. First you Look for a WHOLE Bullet, IF you find only the Case, IT's time to check for a SQUIB..ALWAYS. NO BIG DEAL.. Part of owning a gun..

PBKing
01-14-2010, 09:02
Shaking the bullet to hear powder doesnt tell you much. Undercharge? overcharge?
I like the arsenal policy...if you run into QC problems , the whole lot is in question. Analise and improve you process to inlcude measures to avoid problems later.

Colorado4Wheel
01-14-2010, 09:07
Shaking the bullet to hear powder doesnt tell you much. Undercharge? overcharge?
I like the arsenal policy...if you run into QC problems , the whole lot is in question. Analise and improve you process to inlcude measures to avoid problems later.

Never said it did. But if he knows his measure is accurate then it can tell you a lot. This is the line of thought.

1) If I put a charge in the case it was a accurate charge? Yes, Move on to the next step, NO, pull the bullets.
2) A double charge in a case results in a compressed load? Yes, Move on to the next step, NO, pull the bullets.
3) Shaking the case I hear powder? Yes, safe to shoot, No Pull the bullet.

Start at #1 and work your way to #3.

PBKing
01-14-2010, 09:14
My comment was a general statement, not directed at anyone.

My suggestion to the op would be
A) Find Squib...Yes, Evaluate your handloading QC.

I can just imagine the look on my RO's face if I had a squib and followed up by picking up the next round and shaking it proclaiming..( This one should be good I can hear powder) lol

ETA I have had squibs. All were when I was in a hurry to get a batch loaded regardless of the type of press.

LoadedTech
01-14-2010, 09:32
Sorry to hear it. I just tried the stethoscope on some loaded rounds and couldnt hear the powder inside, through it. Maybe an electronic one with ear muffs, would work better. The only oops I've had was somehow a single primer got flipped, most likely I didn't let it run low enough down the trough. when I pulled out the primer tray the top one must have flipped over. I bring a small wooden dowel and mallet with me to the range, just in case I run into a squib.

Colorado4Wheel
01-14-2010, 09:35
I just tried the stethoscope on some loaded rounds and couldnt hear the powder inside, through it. Maybe an electronic one with ear muffs, would work better.

Or perhaps a funnel. :upeyes:


Nothing will work if it's a compressed load of course.

GioaJack
01-14-2010, 09:43
May I suggest the ultimate answer to your dilemma;

Divide all of your questionable rounds into thirds... send them to my ex-wives for test firing.

Wagering begins at noon today;

Squib pays even money... double charge pays 2-1... triple charge pays 3-1. Lay off bets for normal load pays 4-6.

Must be 21 to participate; cash wagering only... no credit extended. :whistling:

Jack

PBKing
01-14-2010, 09:51
May I suggest the ultimate answer to your dilemma;Divide all of your questionable rounds into thirds... send them to my ex-wives for test firing.
Jack

That may be the best suggestion yet. lol

Bobshouse
01-14-2010, 11:54
Make it easy on yourself...get one of these

http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages/missing_images2/17999_m.jpg

I had loaded 100 rounds and noticed a problem with my reloader...to be safe I pulled all the rounds...none of them had any issues, but it put my mind at ease.

G36_Me
01-14-2010, 18:09
May I suggest the ultimate answer to your dilemma;

Divide all of your questionable rounds into thirds... send them to my ex-wives for test firing.

Wagering begins at noon today;

Squib pays even money... double charge pays 2-1... triple charge pays 3-1. Lay off bets for normal load pays 4-6.

Must be 21 to participate; cash wagering only... no credit extended. :whistling:

Jack



This is so wrong in so many ways. I'm embaressed cause I laughed out loud.

DoctaGlockta
01-14-2010, 18:36
Make it easy on yourself...get one of these

http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages/missing_images2/17999_m.jpg

I had loaded 100 rounds and noticed a problem with my reloader...to be safe I pulled all the rounds...none of them had any issues, but it put my mind at ease.This gets my vote. Been there.