Federal XM9HA....479 ft/lbs!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cmspeedy
01-16-2010, 11:57
I was thinking about ordering a few boxes of this stuff, but have seen one member that has had bad luck with XM9HA.

Has anyone else shot any yet? It seems like it should be a good loading with a 147g HST clocking along at 1180 fps and giving 479 ft/lbs of energy. WOW!!

It should expand quickly and penetrate very deep.

I am a huge Federal ammo fan and shoot it mostly in all my guns with never a problem. I would be shocked if Federal released a bad batch to the public and risked their good reputation.

Ready to pull the trigger.

Renceri
01-16-2010, 12:33
i have 4 failure to fire with it.buy it if you like but dont blame me if it wont fire by the time you will use it for self defense.i've shot all of my stock at the range to get over with it.good for plinking though.the recoil is like 127+p+ ranger t.

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cmspeedy
01-16-2010, 12:39
OK - I think I'll pass unless yours is an isolated incident. Have you done any mods to your gun? Lightened springs? How many rounds through your XD? Did you appear to have a good strike on the primer? any other FTF's with any other ammo? Did you contact Federal?

Renceri
01-16-2010, 12:43
i dont have any failure to fire with my other SD ammos.the strike in the primer is deep but i dont know why it did not fire.no mods whatsover,all stock with my xd.my xd has about almost 1,500 rounds.no malfunctions except with this ammo.i did not contact federal anymore as I only have 100 rounds of it before and all has been fired in my local range.

.45Super-Man
01-16-2010, 16:32
If I felt the 9mm needed to be effectively "turbo-charged" to that extent, I'd get a .357SIG and be done with it.

cmspeedy
01-16-2010, 18:14
Yeah loading it the way the Europeans originally intended is stupid. Does a .357 Sig equivalent in size to the G19 also hold 15 rounds? Nope. Go shoot your .45 super and if you don't have anything nice to say - keep your fingers off the buttons.

You obviously feel the need to "turbo charge" the .45 ACP

thegriz18
01-16-2010, 18:48
Yeah loading it the way the Europeans originally intended is stupid.

I'd say that is what 9mm should be.

PersonOfInterest
01-16-2010, 21:59
I'd say that is what 9mm should be.
And how!
CIP pressure charts have it loaded at very close to the 357sig - its a shame SAAMI decided to cut its nads off - wonder why America did that? ill never get it.

I handload my 9mm's using a 124gn Projectile at 1300fps its not dangerous at all and its not like im turbo-charging it i dont feel, never understand that stupid mentality people come up with 'why not move to a bigger calibre?' simle fact is your going with what works - a 124/125gn projectile moving at 1250fps all the way up to 1450fps works exceptionally well, moving to .40 165gn@ 1150fps or a .45cal @ 950fps wont necessarliy perform better - its a wrong asumption - the idea of moving a .355/.357 projectile faster isnt about getting it to perform like the .40/.45 is just getting the balance that works and has been shown to work well.

Using the 9mm or 357sig to kill alot of animals has proven to me to be better than the other calibres overall - i will admit i like the 357sig because it gets that balance 'easier' but it can be done with the 9mm and id take the 9mm if i could only have 1 gun for that and other reasons.

.45Super-Man
01-17-2010, 00:33
Yeah loading it the way the Europeans originally intended is stupid. Does a .357 Sig equivalent in size to the G19 also hold 15 rounds? Nope. Go shoot your .45 super and if you don't have anything nice to say - keep your fingers off the buttons.

You obviously feel the need to "turbo charge" the .45 ACP

Someone's just a little to high strung :upeyes:

thegriz18
01-17-2010, 00:58
And how!
CIP pressure charts have it loaded at very close to the 357sig - its a shame SAAMI decided to cut its nads off - wonder why America did that? ill never get it.
When I was younger I switched to 40 because I thought 9mm was too weak. If I knew what I know now I might not have switched. That being said, if a 40 is loaded to its potential, it blows away the 9mm. I think SAAMI needs to increase the pressure limits and ammo companies need to start loading ammo to its potential. The reason I don't think a lot of companies load to its full potential is because they load for the lowest common denominator of shooter. For most average shooters 9mm +P is a handful. Could you imagine if that was standard 9mm like it should be? :wow: That is my feeling on the matter. I know that 124 grain .355 bullets can be pushed to 1300fps in a 9mm and I know that 165 grain .400 bullets can be pushed to 1225/1250fps in .40S&W. I just wish a main stream ammo company would do it.

PersonOfInterest
01-17-2010, 03:23
When I was younger I switched to 40 because I thought 9mm was too weak. If I knew what I know now I might not have switched. That being said, if a 40 is loaded to its potential, it blows away the 9mm. I think SAAMI needs to increase the pressure limits and ammo companies need to start loading ammo to its potential. The reason I don't think a lot of companies load to its full potential is because they load for the lowest common denominator of shooter. For most average shooters 9mm +P is a handful. Could you imagine if that was standard 9mm like it should be? :wow: That is my feeling on the matter. I know that 124 grain .355 bullets can be pushed to 1300fps in a 9mm and I know that 165 grain .400 bullets can be pushed to 1225/1250fps in .40S&W. I just wish a main stream ammo company would do it.

Yep could be more to do with litigation and companies too seems all loads have had the same treatment - silly when your consider guns are better built nowdays and last for hundreds of thousands of rounds, the 124gn in the 9mm has had superb performane for nailing animals over the years its a real shame more companies dont pull there finger out and make the loads as there supposed to be.

What i find even scarier is that people here just dont see it - hence they come out say its dangerous to load to that level and tell us hey just move on to a bigger calibre - theres a bit more to it.

I can safely load the 357sig to 1450fps too, same with the 9mm it is safer to keep it a bit lower as far as pressure goes but good to know it can be done.

Angry Fist
01-17-2010, 03:41
Acquiring a 10mm will change your mind! Get your 700+ FPE on right now...:rofl:

PersonOfInterest
01-17-2010, 04:05
Acquiring a 10mm will change your mind! Get your 700+ FPE on right now...:rofl:
Id prefer a a .44

cmspeedy
01-17-2010, 09:24
Someone's just a little to high strung :upeyes:

Looking for feedback - not a worthless opinion.

Angry Fist
01-17-2010, 10:42
Always wanted a .44. Wife used to want that Ruger Alaskan, .454 snubbie!

glocksterr
01-17-2010, 11:03
Id prefer a a .44

agreed!

:cool:

Angry Fist
01-17-2010, 11:46
Then there's the 9x25 Dillon. But who REALLY needs a 9mm being pushed upwards of 2000 FPS? People should stick with whatever ammo makes them sleep better at night. Even/especially if it is the not-so-lowly 9mm or .40 S&W. The 9mm has a long and proud reputation, dating back to the days of the German Empire, and so many handguns are chambered for it. As far as the ammo companies loading for the lowest common denominator, I think its their way of cheepin' out, and covering their arses at the same time.

cmspeedy
01-17-2010, 12:17
Guess I'll be the guinea pig. I ordered 4 boxes and plan on shooting them all for function tests. I'll also be doing some wetpack and water jug testing vs standard pressure 147g HST.

I plan on doing all of the shooting out of a well used (30,000 round) G19.

Renceri
01-17-2010, 12:30
Guess I'll be the guinea pig. I ordered 4 boxes and plan on shooting them all for function tests. I'll also be doing some wetpack and water jug testing vs standard pressure 147g HST.

I plan on doing all of the shooting out of a well used (30,000 round) G19.

Post the pictures here then after yout tests, your results on wetpacks And waterjugs for xm9ha and standard 147gr hst.i always get consistent petal separation with wetpacks with my xm9ha rounds.

cmspeedy
01-17-2010, 12:37
Will do.

unit1069
01-17-2010, 14:52
Guess I'll be the guinea pig. I ordered 4 boxes and plan on shooting them all for function tests. I'll also be doing some wetpack and water jug testing vs standard pressure 147g HST.

I plan on doing all of the shooting out of a well used (30,000 round) G19.

That sounds like a good test medium and platform.

If you have no problems that will indicate the round's a good deal for those who like the 147-grain ammo.

If you do have issues from your reliable Glock then we'll know it's no bargain for self-defense purposes.

glocksterr
01-17-2010, 15:18
dont forget the mandatory 9-layers of denim and a down jacket.


:whistling:

.45Super-Man
01-17-2010, 17:49
Looking for feedback - not a worthless opinion.

What's the difference? One is something you want to hear and one is not? I gave my opinion...if you dont want it, maybe it's best not to start a thread.

renotse
01-17-2010, 19:39
I fired 50 rounds of XM9ha today and got no failures to fire or mis-feeds from my new Glock 19. Must have got a better batch of ammo or the G19 is more reliable than Renceri's XD :wow:. I also shot 50 rounds of Winchester Q4318 FMJ with the same reliability. The accuracy of both rounds were beyond my shooting ability. The recoil and report on the XM9ha was noticeably more than the FMJ but not unmanageable. With today's shooting that makes only 150 rnds I have fired with the G19.

I was thinking about ordering a few boxes of this stuff, but have seen one member that has had bad luck with XM9HA.

Has anyone else shot any yet? It seems like it should be a good loading with a 147g HST clocking along at 1180 fps and giving 479 ft/lbs of energy. WOW!!

It should expand quickly and penetrate very deep.

I am a huge Federal ammo fan and shoot it mostly in all my guns with never a problem. I would be shocked if Federal released a bad batch to the public and risked their good reputation.

Ready to pull the trigger.

JBP55
01-17-2010, 20:24
I fired 50 rounds of XM9ha today and got no failures to fire or mis-feeds from my new Glock 19. Must have got a better batch of ammo or the G19 is more reliable than Renceri's XD :wow:



Yes, Wow.

Renceri
01-17-2010, 21:34
:rofl: Only stupidity to think that firing 50 rounds flawlessly makes your gun superior to xd.and you are absolutely moron to think that firing 50 rounds of that xm9ha makes it reliable for your gun.

renotse
01-17-2010, 21:51
:rofl: Only stupidity to think that firing 50 rounds flawlessly makes your gun superior to xd.and you are absolutely moron to think that firing 50 rounds of that xm9ha makes it reliable for your gun.

more reliable than yours or maybe you're just a liar and you experience was just as flawles as mine

jesse2205
01-17-2010, 22:34
:popcorn:

Renceri
01-17-2010, 22:54
Lol this newbie just dont have common sense.50 rounds without failures makes his gun superior and 50 rounds makes this ammo reliable in his gun? hahaha very funny.

fredj338
01-17-2010, 22:59
I was thinking about ordering a few boxes of this stuff, but have seen one member that has had bad luck with XM9HA.

Has anyone else shot any yet? It seems like it should be a good loading with a 147g HST clocking along at 1180 fps and giving 479 ft/lbs of energy. WOW!!

It should expand quickly and penetrate very deep.

I am a huge Federal ammo fan and shoot it mostly in all my guns with never a problem. I would be shocked if Federal released a bad batch to the public and risked their good reputation.

Ready to pull the trigger.
Where did you get you vel. numbers from? The ATK site only rates this ammo @ 1050fps?:dunno:http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/pistol/tacticalhst.aspx Is this like fishing. the one that got away was this big?:rofl:

PersonOfInterest
01-18-2010, 01:47
Then there's the 9x25 Dillon. But who REALLY needs a 9mm being pushed upwards of 2000 FPS? People should stick with whatever ammo makes them sleep better at night. Even/especially if it is the not-so-lowly 9mm or .40 S&W. The 9mm has a long and proud reputation, dating back to the days of the German Empire, and so many handguns are chambered for it. As far as the ammo companies loading for the lowest common denominator, I think its their way of cheepin' out, and covering their arses at the same time.
Agreed :)
by the way wasnt having a go at the 10mm - i think its a great round! the 9x25 would be interesting not to mention fun
Speaking of .44s heres the one i used to have (dont have it anyymore due to the crap laws introduced here in 2003) but man it was fun to shoot
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/shaneme28/IMG_0880.jpg
Its a Ruger Redhawk that had a 8" tube which i had shortened, crowned and re-sighted/re blued - the barrel in the pic is just under 3".

Angry Fist
01-18-2010, 03:28
Dat there is one sweet snubbie!:wow:

Angry Fist
01-18-2010, 03:30
Are the gun laws really as bad there down under as they are in the rest of the Queen's shadow?:dunno:

Angry Fist
01-18-2010, 03:41
To the OP, though, have you considered Federal 9PBLE? Its a 9mm +P+ 115 grain JHP that is said to do 1450 FPS / 430 FPE, its light, but screamin' fast. Will another ammo god chime in here? A 300 FPS increase should outweigh ~50 pounds less energy, right? If not, it is still a contender for what you want, a nuclear 9. I keep em' in my Kel-Tec P11, and they are HOT! I need a chronograph...

PersonOfInterest
01-18-2010, 04:04
Are the gun laws really as bad there down under as they are in the rest of the Queen's shadow?:dunno:
Well they could be alot better, we can own handguns but in 03 they gave us minumum barrel lengths (120mm for autos, 100mm for wheel guns) they arent really easy to own but if your a member of gun club you your all good and you can keep them at home - id prefer the old laws but just gotta live with it make the best of it, good thing is theres lots of room here big farms etc lots of game (last trip out west i nailed 40 wild goats with my 357sig) could have shot more but i got board. :)
Long gun laws suck - not autos etc but plenty of room big bolt/lever guns.

Angry Fist
01-18-2010, 04:24
Dang!

glocksterr
01-18-2010, 04:43
Yes, Wow.

hee,hee,


maybe he was limp wristing, hee, hee.


seriously, just because it works for one gun does not imply it works for all.

i thinks thats where the 300-500 round number was arrived @ as a baseline for function testing new ammo.

of couse the burry your head in the sand and shoot twwwooo mags and call it good works for some, or does it???


:supergrin:

coal
01-18-2010, 05:10
Enjoy that recoil (http://kwk.us/recoil.html). 147gr at 1180fps = ~11.5 ft/lb

"Regular" 147gr at 950fps = ~7.8 ft/lb

Difference = +32%

Fun, fun times.


p.s. at ~1050fps it's ~9.3 ft/lb, +19%. This is the more likely velocity UNLESS the 147gr is fired from a longgun.

Assumptions (using calculator)
Gun = 1lb
Powder = 4.2gr
Charge fps = 4000

cmspeedy
01-18-2010, 09:26
Guys I want to use this ammo in my G19 for woods and boat carry - not as a SD round - I have plenty of premium defense ammo for that.

I'm also an ammo junky and like to investigate terminal performance on my own - nothing scientific, just fun and a little practical knowledge is gained. So far I have been most impressed with 124+P Gold Dots, 115g +P DPX, 127+P+ RAnger t's, and standard pressure 147g HST. My experience with the 147g HST leads me to believe that this could be a very effective round.

I just want to put this crap to rest as I've never had any problems with Federal ammo and if I do with this lot they are sure to hear about it as will you.

Normally I prefer lower recoil and faster follow ups - it's why I carry standard 147g HST when in the city.

Usually I carry a G20 when out (mostly during hunting season in case I jump a deer or pig), but would like to tote something a bit smaller from time to time (off-season) and this ammo in a G19 should fill that niche nicely for me......after I confirm that it works.

The velocity and energy numbers are directly from Federal and yes it is even more powerful than 147g +P HST if their numbers are correct.

No one has run it over a chrono yet, though.

Renceri
01-18-2010, 09:57
Can someone chrono this thing so that we will know the actual velocity of it.

fredj338
01-18-2010, 10:09
Enjoy that recoil (http://kwk.us/recoil.html). 147gr at 1180fps = 11.8 ft/lb

"Regular" 147gr at 950fps = 8.4 ft/lb

Difference = +29%

Fun, fun times.


p.s. at 1050fps it's 12.5%.
Again, the 147gr+P is NOT making 1180fps from a G19. Recheck your numbers on recoil. I don't think you are seeing 12ft# of recoil in a G19, that is approaching magnum revolver numbers.
The velocity and energy numbers are directly from Federal and yes it is even more powerful than 147g +P HST if their numbers are correct. Reaslly, where is the link? I gave you a link to ATK, shows 1050fps, which seems attainable. Since you missed it the last time. http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/pistol/tacticalhst.aspx It's still a 9mm, not my choice for woods gun against claws & fangs. Fast followup shots & mag cap won't help against a large predator. You need power & penetration.

G21FAN
01-18-2010, 10:13
Where may I order that load from? I am interested in testing it.

cmspeedy
01-18-2010, 10:18
They do not list xm9ha as it is an overrun from an agencies contract and not standard production.

Several members - one here and one on another site have e-mailed federal's ask the expert on their website and this was the reply:

I emailed Federal with these questions

I have purchased 500 rds of XM9ha.
1)Can you tell me what the spec on this ammo is.
2)Is it for pistol?
3)I read on a forum that this ammo is unreliable and had many failure to fire. Can you confirm this or give reason to disprove it?

Their response on Jan 15, 2010

Greetings,

The XM9HA is a great personal defense load. It is loaded with our HST
bullet with velocities of 1180FPS and energy of 479FT lbs. this was
designed for a government agency and is product over run. We are unaware
of the forum stating such data and have not had such reports.

Thank you

Federal

G21FAN
01-18-2010, 10:20
If anynody want to send me a few(I will buy) I can run it over my Chrono and list the data.

cmspeedy
01-18-2010, 10:25
Oh yeah - we don't have many claws and fangs around here. Gators are my biggest fear and they are TOUGH - shot placement will be key anyway. When we hunt them we usually use a .22. My off season shooting consists of Pigs, Armadillos, Bobcats, Coons, Nutria, snakes...... nothing that a 9mm can't handle - even cheap standard pressure hollow points would work, but these are priced good and use a premium bullet.

glocksterr
01-18-2010, 10:35
If anynody want to send me a few(I will buy) I can run it over my Chrono and list the data.

hee,hee,

if it goes bang!


:supergrin:

SDGlock23
01-19-2010, 09:34
That sounds awfully fast for a 147gr 9mm. I'm not saying it can't be done, but that's a lot faster than any factory 9mm 147gr I've ever seen. Oh and btw, a 147gr @ 1180fps is 454 ft lbs not 479. Compare that to your average 147gr factory load which is around 300 ft-lbs.

cmspeedy
01-19-2010, 11:31
Got a tracking number - should be here thursday. By early next week I can give a little more data. I plan on shooting 200 rounds this weekend and have a pile of phone books waiting to be soaked. Have to go see my buddy at the dairy for the jugs.

More to come!

Jeff82
01-19-2010, 13:25
To the OP, though, have you considered Federal 9PBLE? Its a 9mm +P+ 115 grain JHP that is said to do 1450 FPS / 430 FPE, its light, but screamin' fast. Will another ammo god chime in here? A 300 FPS increase should outweigh ~50 pounds less energy, right? If not, it is still a contender for what you want, a nuclear 9. I keep em' in my Kel-Tec P11, and they are HOT! I need a chronograph...

I get 1381fps and 487fpe out of my G17 with 9BPLE. That's average over ten rounds. ES 41, SD 11.5.

It's advertised at 1300/432 out of a 4" test barrel.

Would love to see valid ballistics gel and chrono data on the XM9HA. I've ordered two boxes of it but I don't know when I'll be able to put it over my chrono.

Angry Fist
01-19-2010, 15:47
Jeff82, if you happen to have a 3" barreled 9, could you chrono it too? Just wanna know what I got!! Thanx!:supergrin:

Jeff82
01-19-2010, 21:18
I've got a G19 that I will chrono once I'm able. Prob right now is all my gear is in storage pending a move. Stuff keeps coming up postponing the move so I don't know when I'll get to run it.

Here's some data that will give you an idea...

I chrono'd some P9HST2 (standard 147gr HST) in my 19, 17, and 34.
In order: 1013, 1035, and 1041 fps. Only 28 fps from shortest to longest. 335, 349, 354 fpe. (ten round avg's each gun)

Federal advertises 1000fps/326fpe.

So you can see there wasn't much diff in velocity over the various barrel lengths.

cmspeedy
01-21-2010, 17:35
Uh oh - another user on AR15 had malfunctions in a G17 with this ammo.

One Failure to fire and three that failed to eject correctly in only 100 rounds - NOT GOOD!

Mine didn't make it today but tomorrow - hopefully.

I will definitely contact Federal if I have the same problems.

cmspeedy
01-21-2010, 17:45
To all interested parties - I would hold off on buying this for defense ammo until we clarify what is actually occurring. Part of the problem is that it's hard to trust people on the internet. But the latest poster seems VERY credible and I would certainly not bet my life on this stuff.

They can send me some HST 147+P if I have problems or a refund.

cmspeedy
01-26-2010, 10:28
Looks like one of the lots may be having problems and not others. Should find out soon enough.

BleedNOrange
01-26-2010, 13:17
What's the difference? One is something you want to hear and one is not? I gave my opinion...if you dont want it, maybe it's best not to start a thread.
You speak of "turbo charging" a 9mm but yet your name is 45 super. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?:upeyes: But hey, thats just my opinion.

cmspeedy
01-26-2010, 13:25
You speak of "turbo charging" a 9mm but yet your name is 45 super. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?:upeyes: But hey, thats just my opinion.

AGREED!! I don't think you are a bad guy Super, after reading many of your other posts, just watch what you say......Your comments here looked hypocritical.

Jeff82
01-26-2010, 19:23
I received my two boxes today. I don't have access to my chrono for now so that will have to wait. In the mean time I've been thinking about the ftfe (failure to feed) problems that have been mentioned. I measured 15 of the XM9HA and 15 of my P9HST2 for OAL (overall length). Here's what I found (in inches):

.............XM9HA......P9HST2
Avg:......1.1256.......1.1257
Max:......1.127.........1.126
Min:.......1.124.........1.125
Median:..1.126.........1.126

It seemed the XM stuff was a bit "looser" than the P9 but not by much. Enough to make any difference, I don't think so. Half a "thou" here, half a "thou" there.

If XM is "nose-diving" more than P9 it's not because of a thousandth or two diff in OAL.

cmspeedy
01-26-2010, 19:52
Hi guys I posted this on AR15 and this is my report:

This one is sure to stir the pot - But here is my report.... and I DON'T LIE!!!!

I just got back from the range with 4 boxes (200 rounds) of Federal XM9HA lot # 223 446W001 (The lot with all of the supposed problems)

I'm sorry guys I was not able to run it over a chrono, but the felt recoil was not bad at all. I felt it to be less than a Ranger T127+P+, but more than a standard 147g HST. To be honest the recoil was about the same as the 147g+P HST I have. I have my doubts about the claimed velocity, but we will see.

ALL 200 ROUNDS FUNCTIONED PERFECTLY in my well used, 100% reliable and bone stock 3rd gen Glock G19. I had zero failures to feed, cycle, fire......

All fired brass was kept and looked good - zero signs of overpressure a,d it was not flying into the next zip code.

After my experience today I will use this round around our property to dispatch of pests and plink with. Until more reports like mine come in I still have a smidge of doubt in the back of my head and refuse to have any doubt in my carry ammo - Gold Dots, regular HST or Ranger T's are what I bet my life on.

I am starting to question whether some of the members here are intentionally spreading misinformation so that they can buy up more of the supply of xm9ha. If so, you are a POOR representative of the gun community and I would chose to no longer associate with you. The ammo shortage and price gouging have been rough on us all and if you keep on the lookout you should be able to supply yourself with plenty of premium self defense ammo.

Please continue to post your HONEST results of shooting this ammo here - I gave you mine.

kensteele
01-26-2010, 20:59
My 3 boxes arrived today. I'll probably shoot it....later in the year. :)

Honestly, my 9mm is put up for the winter, 40S&W is on the job. I'll keep this ammo and wait for you guys to give the all clear. :)

hurley842002
01-26-2010, 21:08
To Jeff82 and cmspeedy, thanks for your testing and observations. I've got one box of the same ammo from the same lot, and another on its way. With all the negative comments about this ammo i've been hesitant to order too much of it. With your testing however, its possible you are right about the members spreading misinformation so maybe i'll order more. I plan to shoot 50 rounds of mine this weekend, thru my 19 and hopefully a 26 (planning to get one either Fri or Sat), I realize its not alot for testing, but i'll let you all know my results.

cmspeedy
01-26-2010, 21:27
To Jeff82 and cmspeedy, thanks for your testing and observations. I've got one box of the same ammo from the same lot, and another on its way. With all the negative comments about this ammo i've been hesitant to order too much of it. With your testing however, its possible you are right about the members spreading misinformation so maybe i'll order more. I plan to shoot 50 rounds of mine this weekend, thru my 19 and hopefully a 26 (planning to get one either Fri or Sat), I realize its not alot for testing, but i'll let you all know my results.

Every round helps. We need a large sample size so we can find out if people should use this for self defense ammo. I wouldn't as the LEO only stuff seems to be higher quality and not much more expensive.

If the velocity numbers prove to be true, however, this would be a very potent 9mm loading.

I still want to know what agency overrun this is or if that is just federals way of marketing rounds that didn't meet quality control.

tarheelman23
01-27-2010, 17:58
I emailed federal about this ammo four days ago, and have not received a reply. I have never contacted this company, but you would think their customer service would have replied by now.

Police Marksman
01-27-2010, 20:40
Does the XM9HA have Nickeled cases?

hurley842002
01-27-2010, 21:08
Does the XM9HA have Nickeled cases?

Yes they do

Police Marksman
01-30-2010, 13:10
This XM9HA is Federals standard 9mm 147 HST round. It is a government (ICE) contract overrun. Velocity should be around 1,000 fps.

Federal has not produced a 147 gr. 9mm with 1,180 fps velocity!

Federal HST 147 +P has a velocity of approximately 1,050 fps. This is the highest velocity 147 gr. 9mm Federal has produced.

tarheelman23
01-30-2010, 13:58
This XM9HA is Federals standard 9mm 147 HST round. It is a government (ICE) contract overrun. Velocity should be around 1,000 fps.

Federal has not produced a 147 gr. 9mm with 1,180 fps velocity!

Federal HST 147 +P has a velocity of approximately 1,050 fps. This is the highest velocity 147 gr. 9mm Federal has produced.

This is a response I received from Federal when inquiring about the ammo:

"Greetings,

The XM9HA is first run ammunition loaded with the HST bullet. With
velocity of 1180fps and energy of 479 it would make an excellent
personal defense load.


Thank you"

cmspeedy
01-30-2010, 14:51
Guys - I'll chrono it this week when I can get to the outdoor range. My subjective opinion (after 200 rds) is that it is not running at 1180fps. I could be wrong, but I shoot a lot of "hot" loads and these don't feel like the powerhouse Federal is claiming them to be - I could be wrong.

No doubt about it the Ranger T 127 +P+ recoils noticeably more. Expect an update midweek with CED chrono numbers.

Jeff82
01-30-2010, 17:15
This is a response I received from Federal when inquiring about the ammo:

"Greetings,

The XM9HA is first run ammunition loaded with the HST bullet. With
velocity of 1180fps and energy of 479 it would make an excellent
personal defense load.


Thank you"

Federal got their math wrong. Can't be 1180 @ 479 with 147 gr bullets.

glocksterr
01-30-2010, 18:59
1080 anybody?






:rofl:

hurley842002
01-30-2010, 21:43
No velocity results here, however I shot 50 rounds of my small XM9HA stash today, with Zero issues out of my G26. 50 rounds is obviously not enough to determine reliability, but I figured I would pass on my results.

jesse2205
01-31-2010, 00:31
I shot 100 rds a couple of weeks ago and posted about it on here. I had no misfires or FTF. This ammo is reliable to the fullest extent and there has been only one member on here spreading lies about the ammo. His thread has been locked and i'm glad others have found the ammo reliable as well.

Police Marksman
01-31-2010, 03:21
If it doesn't say "Not For Law Enforcement Use" on the box. it should be as reliable as Standard Federal HST, and a very good self defense round!

Danzig
02-01-2010, 12:14
I also think federal got their math wrong because when i emailed them they told me that XM9HA has the same velocity as the .40 cal XM40HB 155gr..Is that possible? 147gr and 155gr has same fps and energy?

bentbiker
02-01-2010, 14:52
If it doesn't say "Not For Law Enforcement Use" on the box. it should be as reliable as Standard Federal HST, and a very good self defense round!
The problem is that Federal sometimes puts that sticker on the 1000-cartridge cases, but not the individual boxes.

glocksterr
02-01-2010, 15:13
so they gave you the specs on the 155gr., .40 load.


ya. i believe them when they say its first run ammo.


LMAO!

remat
02-01-2010, 20:35
While 1180fps is certainly within the realm of possibility (Vihtavuori's max load for 147gr is 1200fps) I am skeptical that Federal would release such a hot load. Then again.......somebody needs to clock it :)

Austinite
02-02-2010, 01:19
I've shot 50 rounds of the XM9HA out of my Glock 17 with no failures whatsoever.

During the same shooting period, I also shot 115 gr ball, 147 HST +P, and Speer's 115 Gr +P+.

The XM9HA recoils about the same as the 147 HST +P and both of these loads recoil less than the Speer 115 Gr +P+ (this load has some real pop for a 9mm). As expected, all HP loads recoils significantly more than the 115 ball.

Austinite
02-02-2010, 01:20
Interestingly, the XM9HA cases are NOT labelled +P on the case head. Not sure if that can get Federal in trouble or not, but I figured that loads that are supposed to be this hot would at least be labelled as such.

Jeff82
02-02-2010, 20:36
Please list your lot numbers when reporting on the ammo. They're stamped in the boxes.

kensteele
02-03-2010, 22:04
Any updates any truth to any of this? I have 3 boxes that I could either keep forever or shoot it all up tomorrow depending on what's reality. Thanks.

glocksterr
02-04-2010, 08:10
Any updates any truth to any of this? I have 3 boxes that I could either keep forever or shoot it all up tomorrow depending on what's reality. Thanks.

the reality is you should run the 3 boxes in your gun to test for function and buy 3 more.

:supergrin:

cmspeedy
02-04-2010, 09:36
Well I've seen pictures of these rounds online that have folded over case lips from the loading process and I've also seen 2 with what looked like decent primer strikes that didn't go bang.

This - combined with other similar problems from other users has me wondering.

I've shot 200 rounds of this stuff and they all worked 100%

I would not use this for self defense ammo personally after seeing the pictures.

Danzig
02-04-2010, 21:24
Me too i saw it at ar15. I wont be using this also for self defense.im glad i only bought 50 rounds.but can somebody chrono it.

Police Marksman
02-04-2010, 21:27
Me too i saw it at ar15. I wont be using this also for self defense.im glad i only bought 50 rounds.but can somebody chrono it.

I have some of the ammo on its way. I will Chono it sometime next week.

glocksterr
02-05-2010, 05:51
I have some of the ammo on its way. I will Chono it sometime next week.

please......

Danzig
02-05-2010, 11:48
Thanks Police Marksman.Cmspeedy did u chrono it already?

cmspeedy
02-05-2010, 12:05
Thanks Police Marksman.Cmspeedy did u chrono it already?

Been too friggin lazy, besides I wanted to chrono a bunch of loads out of my new G29SF, but it was such a POS out of the box I sent it back to Glock.

When I get it back I'll break out the chrono.

I seriously doubt you will see 1180 fps, but that is my subjective opinion after 200 rounds. I know what that kind of power feels like out of a G23 and it didn't feel anywhere near as snappy out of my G19. Quite manageable actually.

It recoiled noticeably less that Ranger T 127 +P+.

kensteele
02-07-2010, 16:07
Yes please. You are correct, if it's gtg, I should shoot it all up and buy more to keep.

Able 5
02-08-2010, 08:42
Went to the range yesterday and chrono'd some 147 gr XM9HA (lot # 446W001) and some 147 gr P9HST2 out of my Gen4 G17. Fired 100 rds of XM9HA from the G17 and my Kahr PM9 with no failures.

Chrono results were 1046 fps average for the XM9HA and 1037 fps average for the P9HST2. Also shot through 2 layers of blue jeans into water filled milk jugs. Bullet stopped in the 4th and expanded to .709 in. It looks just like the standard 147 gr HST. After firing bullet weight was 147.6 gr.

Hope this helps.

glocksterr
02-08-2010, 09:17
special ammoo?
or, special ed...




:rofl:

hurley842002
02-08-2010, 12:59
Went to the range yesterday and chrono'd some 147 gr XM9HA (lot # 446W001) and some 147 gr P9HST2 out of my Gen4 G17. Fired 100 rds of XM9HA from the G17 and my Kahr PM9 with no failures.

Chrono results were 1046 fps average for the XM9HA and 1037 fps average for the P9HST2. Also shot through 2 layers of blue jeans into water filled milk jugs. Bullet stopped in the 4th and expanded to .709 in. It looks just like the standard 147 gr HST. After firing bullet weight was 147.6 gr.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your Testing and contribution to the thread. Much appreciated.

greyeyezz
02-08-2010, 13:22
My 147's get 1072 @ 100 yds! :wow:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/greyeyezz/P1020865.jpg

Jeff82
02-08-2010, 19:34
Went to the range yesterday and chrono'd some 147 gr XM9HA (lot # 446W001) and some 147 gr out of my Gen4 G17. Fired 100 rds of XM9HA from the G17 and my Kahr PM9 with no failures.

Chrono results were 1046 fps average for the XM9HA and 1037 fps average for the P9HST2. Also shot through 2 layers of blue jeans into water filled milk jugs. Bullet stopped in the 4th and expanded to .709 in. It looks just like the standard 147 gr HST. After firing bullet weight was 147.6 gr.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! This is the kind of data we need. Looks like the XM9HA may be the ballistic equivalent of the 147+P HST round (P9HST4). More data would be great. Now I'm scratching my head. Why?
:headscratch: :dunno:

cmspeedy
02-08-2010, 19:50
i was pretty sure they were over-hyped numbers. Thanks for the verification.

I was just too damn lazy to break out my chrono.

I try to wait until I have several loading work ups to test out.

remat
02-10-2010, 00:12
1080fps seems more like a Federal non+P load so that makes sense. I don't think we know what Fed shot it out of to claim 1180fps.

So, the non-ignition issues were both in XD's? Was that the net result?

glocksterr
02-10-2010, 05:46
1080fps seems more like a Federal non+P load so that makes sense. I don't think we know what Fed shot it out of to claim 1180fps.



nothing, you cant get there from here. they where stroking your chain.


:upeyes:

Jeff82
02-10-2010, 15:52
1080fps seems more like a Federal non+P load so that makes sense. I don't think we know what Fed shot it out of to claim 1180fps.


Federal 147 HST (P9HST2) is advertised at 1000 fps while the +P load (P9HST4) is 1050. The XM9HA seems very close to the +P load.

Maybe the XM9HA is a carbine load? 1180fps would make more sense out of a 16" barrel...

jesse2205
02-10-2010, 20:53
I bet they had the .40 and the 9mm mixed up

Police Marksman
02-14-2010, 17:16
I just finished Chronographing this load and the Standard HST load!

My chronograph is a Oehler Model 35P and the temperature was 53 degrees. I fired five rounds of each out of a Glock 17.

FEDERAL 9mm Luger 147 grain XM9HA Lot #23 P444W001
1. 1019
2. 1012
3. 993
4. 1027
5. 1022
Average = 1014 fps

Federal 9mm Luger HST 147 grain P9HST2 LOT # 3-23Y707
1. 1019
2. 1028
3. 1021
4. 1027
5. 1039
Average = 1026 fps

I would say these are the same rounds. I did not have any malfunctions!

glocksterr
02-14-2010, 18:10
thanks!

Jeff82
02-14-2010, 19:35
It certainly isn't +P+!!

Thanks for the info PM.

kensteele
02-14-2010, 21:32
Thanks for the info. So does that mean XM9HA = P9HST2? A lot of people are looking for HST rounds in 9mm, is this it...or the closest one can come to it today?

glocksterr
02-14-2010, 21:38
Thanks for the info. So does that mean XM9HA = P9HST2? A lot of people are looking for HST rounds in 9mm, is this it...or the closest one can come to it today?


no it means some peeps been had. personally id opt for the 124gr. anywho.


you dont need no stinkin' ammo. you have enough!


:whistling:

Jeff82
02-15-2010, 00:00
So far the jury is out. We've got two chrono reports; one shows velocity similar to P9HST4 (+P), and one shows velocity similar to P9HST2 (standard) both out of G17's. Until we see more we don't know which way it will trend. What it is not is +P+ (or anything like it) at "1180 fps".

glocksterr
02-15-2010, 10:29
So far the jury is out. We've got two chrono reports; one shows velocity similar to P9HST4 (+P), and one shows velocity similar to P9HST2 (standard) both out of G17's. Until we see more we don't know which way it will trend. What it is not is +P+ (or anything like it) at "1180 fps".


my jury came back. the ammo is inconsistant, doesnt meet spec and is seconds.

clear cut case, open and shut.


i dont buy any defensive/hunting ammo that starts with an X or a Z.


:)


moral of the story, if its tooo good to be true, it prolly is.

Police Marksman
02-15-2010, 11:20
I was told by a good source that XM9HA was a government agency (ICE), contract over run. If there were primer issues it would display a warning on the box, "NOT FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT USE".

The only difference I see is the serrations on the XM9HA bullet, seem to be a little longer than the P9HST2. I guess this would mean the XM9HA bullet would possibly expand to a little larger diameter. This serration difference could just be a change from one lot to the next.

I believe the two are the same! They should both be a excellent self defense rounds!

glocksterr
02-15-2010, 12:09
one mans second is another mans first.


thruthfully, exzactly what is an overun. its what they have laying around after they get enough good ammo to fill.

Little Joe
02-15-2010, 12:28
I had 10 boxes ordered and canceled it until we heard some conclusion here. I'm glad I did. I'm happy with the standard issue. I wouldn't mind picking up some 147+P if it became available. I'm not holding my breath.


LJ

Jeff82
10-24-2010, 19:53
It's ALIVE!! (this thread, raised from the dead)

Finally got to chrono (ten rounds) of my XM9HA, Lot 223 446W001.

It shot fine, no probs.

Avg 1009 fps, right in line (within 3 fps) with the P9HST2 shot from the same gun, a G19. Extreme spread and standard deviation were very close too.

Temp 73 degrees F.

It's definitely not +P+ or even +P.

cowboy1964
10-25-2010, 05:38
When I was younger I switched to 40 because I thought 9mm was too weak. If I knew what I know now I might not have switched. That being said, if a 40 is loaded to its potential, it blows away the 9mm. I think SAAMI needs to increase the pressure limits and ammo companies need to start loading ammo to its potential. The reason I don't think a lot of companies load to its full potential is because they load for the lowest common denominator of shooter. For most average shooters 9mm +P is a handful.

9mm +P is a handful but a 40 "loaded to it's potential" is not?! 9mm +P is still more manageable than any 40, hot or not.

+P is nothing. I can barely feel more recoil than standard stuff. Even the Ranger +P+ ammo is pretty mild.