Best value piston driven AR? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Eric2340
01-16-2010, 18:51
Who's got the best value in a GOOD, HIGH QUALITY piston driven AR out there currently?

I had a regular gas injection Bushmaster years ago, but got rid of it, the piston driven guns started coming out not long after that. :( I looked at their gun, $1500 and up is a bit more than I want to spend. :(

I see Ruger is asking $2K for theirs - no thanks. :(


Other suggestions?


I have a Kel Tec SU16 that's piston op, but I really kind of worry if it's as tough as a piston AR or even a Mini 14?


Thanks -

Eric

furioso2112
01-16-2010, 19:12
I don't know enough about them to say if they are worth it, but Bushmaster makes a $400-ish piston system that can be used in place of the gas system on a typical AR. Build an with the system, and you can likely keep your cost under $1000 (parts build an economical AR minus the cost of the parts you don't need (as they are replaced by the piston system - like the gas tube/gas block, etc.), plus the cost of the piston conversion system). Midway had a sale price of $399 IIRC on the Bushy gas conversion system a couple days ago, probably still in effect. I don't know if that is a competitive price on the system or not, but it is a reference point.

I bought a Sig556 (it's piston-driven action) and soon after bought an AR as I wanted the parts interchangeability and options that the AR platform offers. I considered selling the Sig, but then I cleaned it and remembered how easy it is to clean, what a nice quality the components are, and how low the market is right now...so I have decided to keep it.

BTW - nice avatar!

Eric2340
01-16-2010, 19:19
I don't know enough about them to say if they are worth it, but Bushmaster makes a $400-ish piston system that can be used in place of the gas system on a typical AR. Build an with the system, and you can likely keep your cost under $1000 (parts build an economical AR minus the cost of the parts you don't need (as they are replaced by the piston system - like the gas tube/gas block, etc.), plus the cost of the piston conversion system). Midway had a sale price of $399 IIRC on the Bushy gas conversion system a couple days ago, probably still in effect. I don't know if that is a competitive price on the system or not, but it is a reference point.

I bought a Sig556 (it's piston-driven action) and soon after bought an AR as I wanted the parts interchangeability and options that the AR platform offers. I considered selling the Sig, but then I cleaned it and remembered how easy it is to clean, what a nice quality the components are, and how low the market is right now...so I have decided to keep it.

BTW - nice avatar!


I considered that (just buying a Bushy piston upper and building a gun) but I figured by the time I got done doing that and getting it tricked out the way I wanted it after starting from scratch (w/ all Bushy parts mind you) I would not be that far off from the price of their gun (turn key version).

I wish now I had just kept my old 16 Bushy AK carbine :(, all I would have needed would have been a complete piston upper, an M4 style stock, and some sights. :( Oh well.


Thanks on the avatar. Not too many people can name him. :)

hardeyes
01-16-2010, 19:47
Hello;

Look into the LMT MRP.

hardeyes

Flinter
01-16-2010, 20:51
Why Bushmaster? Why not try a quality AR from one of the better makers before worrying about the pistol system. LMT, BCM, LaRue, etc.

johnny00
01-16-2010, 23:31
Another vote for the LMT Piston MRP....

up1911fan
01-16-2010, 23:37
I've seen the Rugers for around $1425, a little heavy though.

highprimer
01-17-2010, 00:01
Everyone I have known to bought one of the CMMG piston rifles/uppers is very happy with them, and complete rifles come in at just 1k.

I've only gotten to paw one, and never fired one but they seem to be built very well.

Eric2340
01-17-2010, 01:19
Why Bushmaster? Why not try a quality AR from one of the better makers before worrying about the pistol system. LMT, BCM, LaRue, etc.


Thank you, but no thank you.

Sorry, I am of the "piston driven upper AR" crowd and do not wish to debate the pros and cons of the two designs in this thread. I am only looking for info on piston driven guns here, but thank you again for your info. :)


I had no issues w/ the quality of the Bushy traditional gas injected gun I had, I merely rushed into the purchase uninformed around '99, got a gun w/ a less than 16" barrel I was not happy w/, an AK brake that was REALLY loud, got stuck then w/ a traditional A2 stock I did not want, and a non-flat top upper I did not want either.

All my fault, all made in one of those "gotta have one" decision purchases. :)

I would have dumped the gun regardless b/c the price of correcting everything I did not like about the gun was pretty close to the price of correcting it w/ another traditional gas injected gun when I sold it in '06 or so. :(

Thanks again though. :)

Eric2340
01-17-2010, 01:24
I've seen the Rugers for around $1425, a little heavy though.

HHmmmmm................

I'm still not a Ruger fan either way, but even at that price I'd still be more tempted to lean towards a Mini 14 if it were not for the expense of mags and the fact that it will not accept the seven 30 round AR mags I already have for the KT SU16. :(

I know I need to get over my hard on for Ruger products, but I guess I just still have a problem w/ that ever time I look at all the pre-ban G22 mags I bought before the sunset, but that is for another thread altogether............ :(

Eric2340
01-17-2010, 01:36
Another vote for the LMT Piston MRP....


Yow, a lot more than what I wanted to spend, and I thought the Bushy guns were high. :(


Maybe I am being un-realistic about this, in looking to do this for less than $1200 or so for a complete gun? :(


At that kind of $$ I'd rather do one of a couple things to see if they work -

1. Torture test my KT SU16 to see how far it can be pushed and buy a second one then if it makes it (hey I'm not going to fight a war w/ the thing, I've got AKs and an M1A for that :) past what I am comfortable with.

2. Dump the KT and AR mags and go get a couple of Mini 14s and a whole bunch of mags.

3. Sell my KT and my 870 and go buy a nice 1187P and the softest shooting loads it will still function with.


Part of this plan is something to supplement my HD gun for in a long gun that I KNOW my old lady can shoot also if I am not here besides my 870 (which is too much for her and too much to reload quickly and easily under stress), and won't tear though the outer CBS of the house like one of the AKs will. A pistol caliber carbine scares me for zipping through 4" sheet rock too much too. :( That leaves low recoil to smaller sized buckshot, a 12 ga or smaller SG, or a mag fed .223 gun. I figuring the easiest thing for her is a mag fed .223 gun and a bunch of spare mags?

Thanks -

12131
01-17-2010, 02:54
Maybe I am being un-realistic about this, in looking to do this for less than $1200 or so for a complete gun? :(
Then maybe you want to check out CMMG piston AR. I'm not making recommendation. Just letting you know, based on your price limit.

nipperwolf
01-17-2010, 06:12
There are STAG Arms piston models on Gunbroker for under $1100. I have no experience with them, though.

phxfa
01-17-2010, 09:39
Love my LMT,,better then my LWRC :cool::cool:

internal
01-17-2010, 09:42
I know I'm probably a bit off base in your request but the extra money that a piston driven AR brings could pay for all the legalities for owning an SBR (assuming you live in a SBR friendly state).

Seriously, you could have a badass 10.5-11.5" DI AR15 for the price of a standard 16" retrofitted piston system in an AR.

Quiet
01-17-2010, 09:51
You'll be very hard pressed to find a high quality gas-piston AR for under $1500.


ADDAX, LMT, LWRC and Barrett make great high quality gas-piston ARs.
However, their gas-piston AR uppers start in the $1300 range and complete ARs are in the $2000+ range.

pleaforwar
01-17-2010, 10:10
You'll be very hard pressed to find a high quality gas-piston AR for under $1500.


ADDAX, LMT, LWRC and Barrett make great high quality gas-piston ARs.
However, their gas-piston AR uppers start in the $1300 range and complete ARs are in the $2000+ range.

Thank you very much for mentioning our product. :cool:

We actually have our ATAC MK-1 gas piston upper currently marked at $1175. The OP can purchase a complete lower and still be under his original <$1500 price point.


My personal ATAC MK-1:
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af350/daniel_frank3/longstroke5.jpg

And here is a link with all the information about this piston upper:
Addax ATAC MK1 (http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1333&idcategory=137)

phxfa
01-17-2010, 10:27
You'll be very hard pressed to find a high quality gas-piston AR for under $1500.


ADDAX, LMT, LWRC and Barrett make great high quality gas-piston ARs.
However, their gas-piston AR uppers start in the $1300 range and complete ARs are in the $2000+ range.
I just bought (from G&R tactical) a 12 inch LMT piston MRP for $1580.00. prices are definitely coming down

thisaway
01-17-2010, 10:45
CMMG offers their complete piston AR for $999, and the upper only for $675. I intend to buy a good lower, and then get the CMMG upper for it, when my funds permit.

Stag offers their piston AR for about $1100, and the SIG 516 is supposed to be competitve to this (whenever they become available).

Quiet
01-17-2010, 11:07
We actually have our ATAC MK-1 gas piston upper currently marked at $1175. The OP can purchase a complete lower and still be under his original <$1500 price point.

This is a very good deal for a well built quality gas-piston AR upper.
(didn't know the price got lowered)

Glock Man_G19
01-17-2010, 17:02
Great info guys.

madecov
01-17-2010, 19:23
I like Stag products as a general rule for a non custom build as opposed to RRA and Bushmaster.

I have not seen or handled the newest piston Stag but that's the one I would look at since they've been in business for so long and offer a decent warranty.

jbremount
01-17-2010, 21:19
I like Stag products as a general rule for a non custom build as opposed to RRA and Bushmaster.

I have not seen or handled the newest piston Stag but that's the one I would look at since they've been in business for so long and offer a decent warranty.



IMO, reading the tea leaves/etc, there will become ever increasing choices of piston guns to choose from. FWIK, the CMMG and Stag are very similar in design and pricing. The Adams Arms conversion kits and the Sig new piston gun are also quite similar. The Adams Arms is establishing a solid track record with piston shooters. These are all short stroke systems and not a whole lot different in pricings. The Sig is not out yet, but their reputation is usually one of quality. Personally, I would continue doing research on all the brands. Keep the money under your hat/ save until you have the funds to get the piston gun you want. Look for quality and reliability. This way, you only buy once and are satisfied with your purchase.

GlockLovin
01-17-2010, 23:22
Love my LMT,,better then my LWRC :cool::cool:

My LWRC is pretty hard to beat so you must have a nice LMT there.

phxfa
01-18-2010, 01:46
My LWRC is pretty hard to beat so you must have a nice LMT there.
Not really, just comparing performance/reliabilty between the two guns.
My LWRC in 6.8 has had issues since new and is back at the factory, the LMT runs flawlessly. going to SHOT tomorrow havin a little chat with em,,,

Kilroy
01-18-2010, 11:00
You will have to spend some money to gain life saving quality.

If your lane makes the Mini-14 or Kel-Tec attractive, I'd suggest the Mini, a lot of ammo, some good (OEM) magazines and a training class.

crenca
01-18-2010, 13:47
Thank you very much for mentioning our product. :cool:

We actually have our ATAC MK-1 gas piston upper currently marked at $1175. The OP can purchase a complete lower and still be under his original <$1500 price point.


My personal ATAC MK-1:
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af350/daniel_frank3/longstroke5.jpg

And here is a link with all the information about this piston upper:
Addax ATAC MK1 (http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1333&idcategory=137)

Do you or anyone else make a 18-18.5 inch piston upper or complete rifle?

pleaforwar
01-18-2010, 14:02
Do you or anyone else make a 18-18.5 inch piston upper or complete rifle?

I'm sorry but we do not build piston uppers in the 18-18.5" configuration. We do, however, build them in the DI flavor. :thumbsup:

Addax 18" SPR Upper (http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1410&idcategory=0)

sleepygreen
01-18-2010, 15:16
I bought my piston driven bushmaster lightly used for $1200.

4lifeglocker
01-21-2010, 09:07
+1 For LMT got over 400 rounds on her and she is flawless

chewybaca67
01-21-2010, 11:39
I'm lookin' at either a Stag or Ruger sr-556. The thing I like about the Ruger is I get 3 magpull mags, to with all my other AR mags, and it's already got all the bells and whistles I'd ever want on an AR. Plus, the rail is pinned in so it won't start loosenin' itself up. Pretty good stuff on there for the price.

phxfa
01-21-2010, 13:19
I'm lookin' at either a Stag or Ruger sr-556. The thing I like about the Ruger is I get 3 magpull mags, to with all my other AR mags, and it's already got all the bells and whistles I'd ever want on an AR. Plus, the rail is pinned in so it won't start loosenin' itself up. Pretty good stuff on there for the price.
The LMT rail is monolithic, aint ever comin off! :cool:

Kentak
01-23-2010, 08:49
Just some thoughts about the Ruger.

No one pays anywhere close to the $2G MSRP. I think 1500 is on the high side of a typical street price now, and you should be able to do better.

Consider it comes standard with the excellent Troy BUIS and Troy rail. If those are items you might have paid for to add to another make, that 1500 begins to look darn attractive. The lower has a nice rubberized grip (I forget the maker). The three Pmags thrown in is minor, but it's a nice touch, as is the soft case included.

I'm very impressed with mine and look forward to really putting a lot more rounds downrange when our state operated ranges open in the spring.

internal
01-23-2010, 09:10
Just some thoughts about the Ruger.

No one pays anywhere close to the $2G MSRP. I think 1500 is on the high side of a typical street price now, and you should be able to do better.

Consider it comes standard with the excellent Troy BUIS and Troy rail. If those are items you might have paid for to add to another make, that 1500 begins to look darn attractive. The lower has a nice rubberized grip (I forget the maker). The three Pmags thrown in is minor, but it's a nice touch, as is the soft case included.

I'm very impressed with mine and look forward to really putting a lot more rounds downrange when our state operated ranges open in the spring.

Like others have said, you don't charge $1500+ and have the barrel come in a 1/9 twist.

That's just a no no.

Kentak
01-23-2010, 14:52
Like others have said, you don't charge $1500+ and have the barrel come in a 1/9 twist.

That's just a no no.

This is an honest question, I'm not looking to start any arguments. Can you explain what you mean? I understand the 1/7 has the edge on stabilizing the longer bullets, but what would that have to do with the price of the gun?

I have heard Ruger spokesmen and others who have said they have obtained very good accuracy with heavier bullets. I, myself, haven't shot anything heavier than 70 gr with my guns, mostly due to sticking with cheaper ball ammo. I'll definitely be trying some of the heavier stuff this spring, as my curiosity has been aroused now.

Added later: Anyone?

Darkangel1846
01-23-2010, 16:48
Sig 516

jobob
01-24-2010, 16:26
Do you or anyone else make a 18-18.5 inch piston upper or complete rifle?

POF makes a great 18" piston. I've been shooting an upper for 3 years as my main 3gun match rifle. 1" groups at 100 yards and dead reliable. Here:
http://www.pof-usa.com/main.htm

FYI, I've seen some comments on other forums that their customer service can be hit or miss lately. My experience has been good, though.