Saiga fresh from the box pictures before conversion [Archive] - Glock Talk

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my762buzz
01-16-2010, 22:08
Its factory marked Dec 2008 so it arrived at RAA the US distributor late Dec to Early 2009. Other than the lack of dimples, this is generally (not exactly) how the Arsenal SGL rifles should look like when they arrive from Russia. As far as I know, the receiver (except for the dimples), rear trunnion, front trunnion, barrel (except for the retainer notches and chamber step), carrier, bolt, cover, rear sight block, and recoil rod should be the same. The front sight block, rear sight (not the block), gas block, gas tube, addition of bullet guide, trigger parts and obviously furniture are different. As one last side note, Arsenal states in their online manuals that the furniture, muzzle device if applicable and trigger parts are made in the USA.Feel free to point out any differences if you have an Arsenal SGL and want to make a distinct comparison.

http://i47.tinypic.com/rcvtwo.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/jrxlxk.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/25honr9.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2gv24gp.jpg

my762buzz
01-16-2010, 22:10
http://i46.tinypic.com/2vxov88.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2hz7m2q.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/262w0mr.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/24y2rgm.jpg

my762buzz
01-16-2010, 22:13
Arsenal SGL 10


http://www.arsenalinc.com/saiga_lftangled02.gif


http://www.arsenalinc.com/saiga_lftangled.gif

my762buzz
01-16-2010, 22:25
Actual differences Arsenal points out.
http://www.arsenalinc.com/articles/sgl10/sgl10.pdf

The Saiga inner gas block looks chrome lined.I'm not even sure that this is a feature on non Russian rifles like Bulgarian, Hungarian, East German, Romanian,
or Chinese.

The Veprs also were and they made sure to point that out as something of added value.
http://www.molot.biz/product-e/vepr.php
"For increasing the durability against the mechanical galling as well as rust-preventive and erosive resistance the bore and the chamber, the gas chamber and the shaft with the bolt carrier piston are chrome-lined."

photoguy
01-18-2010, 08:41
I'm eagerly waiting for my Saiga x39 to arrive this week. After conversion I suspect it will be very similar to my Arsenal AK except for some of the details you've pointed out (dimples). Please post pics of your conversion when you get to it.

my762buzz
01-18-2010, 19:23
I found some thing unusual. Retainer side notches.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2cf75o1.jpg

my762buzz
01-18-2010, 19:55
5 minutes of filing on the rear latch produces a beautiful thing called magazine compatibility.

http://i46.tinypic.com/300d7ur.jpg

my762buzz
01-18-2010, 21:04
10 minutes with a drill bit and the stock trigger is gone and so are the linkage pins.

http://i48.tinypic.com/90d74p.jpg

my762buzz
01-18-2010, 22:22
3 rivets drilled out in 30 minutes of actual work. The plate is gone.

http://i48.tinypic.com/w2jebt.jpg

GerryV
01-19-2010, 07:31
I found some thing unusual. Retainer side notches.




Mine also came with the retainer grooves. It seems there are some odd issues going on with the Saiga 7.62's lately as some over on the Saiga 12 board have found out that theirs have threaded a barrel under the front sheath. Who knows what those crazy Russians are doing?

my762buzz
01-20-2010, 20:34
To set up for drilling into the trunnion, I crazy glued a nut in place to keep the
drill bit from moving around before it finally bites in. This worked real well. I got a good pilot hole going with a number 6 cobalt bit and later switched to a number 8 after 3 number 6 bits broke on the way through. After 10 minutes I had a nice clean hole all the way through. Next I used a 8-32 tap to thread the hole. I used plenty of gun oil in the hole to prevent the tap from seizing up. 3 minutes with the tap and I was done.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2uxtheg.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/1fzdoj.jpg



I couldn't help but wonder if the glued in nut would happen to work as a bullet guide. I inserted the carrier, bolt, and a loaded magazine. It actually worked very well, but it wasn't inletted for a bolt head to anchor it down properly. I will get a a premade bullet guide for this purpose.

my762buzz
01-22-2010, 01:47
My saiga factory trigger guard has been recycled into this new version. My home made bullet guide works perfect.


http://i50.tinypic.com/2a9elbk.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/5vvtbs.jpg

CarlosC
01-22-2010, 07:19
My saiga factory trigger guard has been recycled into this new version. My home made bullet guide works perfect.


I love projects like this and I am contemplating doing one in 5.45. Anyway...great work. BTW, I have seen people make bullet guides from a piece of stainless tubing. Don't you just love a gun that you can do stuff like this to?!

photoguy
01-22-2010, 15:21
I've got dimples and barrel notches on my new March 09 Saiga x39. Sweet!

skanless
01-22-2010, 15:52
Nice work buddy. :thumbsup:

my762buzz
01-22-2010, 19:17
Saiga 7.62x39 rifles of the past few years have a chamber step.
The other calibers don't have this from the few reports I have seen.
The arsenal SGL rifle barrels do not have this step.


Here is a comparison of the same saiga as seen above and a mak90.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2myqdyo.jpg

my762buzz
01-25-2010, 22:39
Fresh from the oven refinished with a high temperature coating.

http://i45.tinypic.com/x2qm3d.jpg

my762buzz
02-01-2010, 20:06
http://i54.tinypic.com/2cnf5za.jpg

Glocker08
02-02-2010, 16:50
:cool: Good job. Simple,clean,me likes. :thumbsup:

DEADLYACCURATE
02-02-2010, 18:31
:thumbsup:

Glocker08
02-02-2010, 22:50
Saiga 7.62x39 rifles of the past few years have a chamber step.
The other calibers don't have this from the few reports I have seen.
The arsenal SGL rifle barrels do not have this step.


Here is a comparison of the same saiga as seen above and a mak90.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2myqdyo.jpg

10 minutes with a drill bit and the stock trigger is gone and so are the linkage pins.

http://i48.tinypic.com/90d74p.jpg

:cool: Interesting stuff.

What exactly is the chamber step supposed to do ? Also, what is that little gray tab in front of the trigger guard ? My Saiga doesn't have one of those.

my762buzz
02-02-2010, 23:20
:cool: Interesting stuff.

What exactly is the chamber step supposed to do ? Also, what is that little gray tab in front of the trigger guard ? My Saiga doesn't have one of those.

The chamber step is a recent modification going back to around 2003/2004.
Its a Russian government policy/law to require marking 7.62x39 fired cases so that it can be established if a found case had been fired from commercial gun.
None of the Robarm Veprs ever got the step maybe because the last batch imported were made in 2003.


The gray tab is a bolt hold open button to lock the carrier back.
I took it off completely during the process.

surety agent 1
02-02-2010, 23:40
Have you thought about doing this conversion for others?

surety agent 1
02-02-2010, 23:46
Buzz, or anyone else, when you convert a saiga, can you install a standard lower and upper handguard on it without modification? I found a company on gunbroker thats sells the converted saigas for 529.00 thinking about picking one up, tennessee guns international or TGI . Seems like a deal for what u get.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 00:06
Have you thought about doing this conversion for others?

I'm not a licensed gunsmith and you pretty much need to be to do work
like that for others if people send you a gun and are not there in person.
I would be glad to help anyone locally.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 00:27
Buzz, or anyone else, when you convert a saiga, can you install a standard lower and upper handguard on it without modification? I found a company on gunbroker thats sells the converted saigas for 529.00 thinking about picking one up, tennessee guns international or TGI . Seems like a deal for what u get.

Make sure you find out if their bullet guides are actually rivoted or bolted in.
Some builders in the recent past have glued/epoxied the guides in.
That is a problem waiting to happen.

To install the lower handguard there is 3 options.
1. Remove the front site block and the gas block and modify a handguard retainer to fit as well as cutting notches on the barrel.

2. A dinzag custom retainer that requires none of that work.
Its held in place by a set screw.

Or 3.
Edit to add: The new slip on retainer is the best way to install a 100 series handguard as shown in the picture. Yes it has a heat shield.

I actually prefer the Izhmash factory saiga sporter handguard to
a conventional one. There is much more area to grip.

Edit to add: But I love the Arsenal made handguard set even more. Not conventional totally modernized.

toshbar
02-03-2010, 07:35
That's awesome. I didn't know it was so easy to convert. I'll look into one now. The only thing I'm not sure of is how you moved the trigger guard forward.

Oh, and I never knew the cleaning pod could be used on the gas tube release. I've always just used my fingers.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 07:59
That's awesome. I didn't know it was so easy to convert. I'll look into one now. The only thing I'm not sure of is how you moved the trigger guard forward.

Oh, and I never knew the cleaning pod could be used on the gas tube release. I've always just used my fingers.

The other 2 decent things the cleaning kit has is the sight adjustment wrench and a pin punch to drift the firing pin retaining pin out.

toshbar
02-03-2010, 08:03
The other 2 decent things the cleaning kit has is the sight adjustment wrench and a pin punch to drift the firing pin retaining pin out.
I knew about the sight wrench, but never figured out what the punch was for. I also turns into a handle for the cleaning rod as I guess you know. This is why the Russian weapon is superior.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 08:07
The only thing I'm not sure of is how you moved the trigger guard forward.



The trigger guard starts out welded to the plate that is rivoted into the receiver. By drilling out those 3 rivots, the plate comes right off.
Then you can disattach the trigger guard from the plate.
Drill out the two triggerguard-plate spot welds on the plate after the plate comes off. Or if your careful, use bolt cutters to trim the plate off the guard.
The bolt cutters method takes a few minutes.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 08:10
I knew about the sight wrench, but never figured out what the punch was for. I also turns into a handle for the cleaning rod as I guess you know. This is why the Russian weapon is superior.

All I ever use to clean my rifles is an otis cleaning cable. Virtually impossible to scratch any steel bore with those. And, its fast.

FireForged
02-03-2010, 09:08
What gas tube and stock set is that?

toshbar
02-03-2010, 09:35
Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, but I have a few more questions.

If I have this right, the Saiga conversion consists of:

1. Opening up rear of mag well.
2. Putting in some sort of material to serve as bullet guide. I have a welder so a small piece of something flat and metallic will work with 2 small tack welds?
3. Drilling off that bottom plate and separating trigger guard from plate.
4. Drill trigger pins out and removing linkage. Filling holes with rivets if I so desire.
5. Buying pistol grip with bolt and bushing, tapco trigger, stock, + installing these.
6. Weld/rivet trigger guard back on.

Do the 922r requirements apply to this since it is no longer a sporting rifle and are there any other compliance parts needed in addition to the pistol grip, trigger, stock etc.?

I really like keeping that fore grip.

This might be an awesome project for this summer. How many hours would it take? I'd think you could get this done in an afternoon assuming you have all the parts ready to put in. If I end up doing this, how will accuracy and reliability be in comparison to my WASR/is it worth buying a saiga and converting it if I already have a wasr?

surety agent 1
02-03-2010, 10:49
Yea check out you tube the conversion video is on there. Thanks for the advice on the bullet guide, the longer I look at the standard handguard the more I like it.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 15:53
What gas tube and stock set is that?

The stock set is Arsenal made in the USA. The grip is a MD Arms molot style. The gas tube is an east german.

my762buzz
02-03-2010, 16:29
Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, but I have a few more questions.

If I have this right, the Saiga conversion consists of:

1. Opening up rear of mag well.
2. Putting in some sort of material to serve as bullet guide. I have a welder so a small piece of something flat and metallic will work with 2 small tack welds?
3. Drilling off that bottom plate and separating trigger guard from plate.
4. Drill trigger pins out and removing linkage. Filling holes with rivets if I so desire.
5. Buying pistol grip with bolt and bushing, tapco trigger, stock, + installing these.
6. Weld/rivet trigger guard back on.

Do the 922r requirements apply to this since it is no longer a sporting rifle and are there any other compliance parts needed in addition to the pistol grip, trigger, stock etc.?

I really like keeping that fore grip.

This might be an awesome project for this summer. How many hours would it take? I'd think you could get this done in an afternoon assuming you have all the parts ready to put in. If I end up doing this, how will accuracy and reliability be in comparison to my WASR/is it worth buying a saiga and converting it if I already have a wasr?

The magwell does not need opening up. It comes wide enough from the factory. Only the mag latch needs to be filed.


Yes the 922r compliance does count any time you piece together parts into something that would be illegal to import in the first place. But, not illegal to assemble provided you follow the guidelines.


In the configuration I have it in, it has 15 parts to legally consider.

For your purpose of compliance.
The trigger set counts as three. The pistol grip counts as one. The stock counts as one. The handguard counts as one. A muzzle brake/flash hider would count as one if it were there and that would require to be counted as one more beyond 15 parts and so would a forward grip.

Figure if you had every thing you see so far and lets include a muzzle brake and a forward grip that would be 17 parts total of which you should have no more than 10 which are not made in the USA. The key point is never go over 10 foreign parts no matter how many extras you add on.

It might take you a couple of hours depending on how fast you want to work on it.

As far as is it worth it? It's made of brand new parts that are fit together very well. The steel quality is second to none. Even the gas block interior is chrome lined unlike most any other alternative rifle. I have shot sub 2 MOA with a scope mount using better ammo like double tap in my other saiga.
A member of Saiga12 forum worked up a good handloaded ammo for his .223 version saiga and scoped shot groups that were sub 1 MOA. Its definitely a better quality gun than a wasr.

surety agent 1
02-03-2010, 17:35
Make sure you find out if their bullet guides are actually rivoted or bolted in.
Some builders in the recent past have glued/epoxied the guides in.
That is a problem waiting to happen.

To install the lower handguard there is two options.
1. Remove the front site block and the gas block and modify a handguard retainer to fit as well as cutting notches on the barrel.

2. A dinzag custom retainer that requires none of that work.
Its held in place by a set screw.


I actually prefer the Izhmash factory saiga sporter handguard to
a conventional one. There is much more area to grip.
It also provides a solid front engagement point where the factory
barrel handguard pin(only on a regular saiga) locks in and keeps the handguard off of the barrel. This might have an effect on keeping shot to shot accuracy more consistant. If the handguard pressure against the barrel
changes from shot to shot, this can potentially change point of impact.
Free floating a handguard is a bit more difficult but keeping only two points
of contact is the next best thing. Izmash designed the sporter handguard for improved accuracy. The .308 handguard version is even better.

Thanks for the heads up, They told my they weld the bullet guide in place, guess I found my next rifle:cool:

my762buzz
06-04-2011, 06:51
http://i54.tinypic.com/2cnf5za.jpg

Now its finished.

g22od
06-04-2011, 08:33
Nice work sir!

toshbar
06-04-2011, 13:29
Well it's only been a year and a half.....:whistling:

g22od
06-04-2011, 16:34
Well it's only been a year and a half.....:whistling:
D'oh, hadn't noticed this until your post. I still say good job, very, very thorough, but good. LOL:rofl:

adamg01
06-04-2011, 22:16
http://i54.tinypic.com/2cnf5za.jpg

Now its finished.

Very nice! How much total do you have in that proj. if you don't mind me asking.

my762buzz
06-04-2011, 23:09
Nice work sir!

Thank you

my762buzz
06-04-2011, 23:12
Well it's only been a year and a half.....:whistling:

It took this long to find the final piece I needed. The piece was not yet invented back then.

my762buzz
06-04-2011, 23:18
Very nice! How much total do you have in that proj. if you don't mind me asking.

Around $550 in cost and several hours of time.

toshbar
06-04-2011, 23:31
It took this long to find the final piece I needed. The piece was not yet invented back then.
What was the piece and who did you call up to make it for you?

Nice rear sight. I have the MicroClick version along with a .034" front sight post.

my762buzz
06-04-2011, 23:53
What was the piece and who did you call up to make it for you?




Nice rear sight. I have the MicroClick version along with a .034" front sight post.

Final piece was from http://www.saiga-ak.com/parts.html
http://www.saiga-ak.com/saiga-ak_LHG_retainer/saiga-ak_LGH_retainer_hot_blue_mill.jpg

adamg01
06-05-2011, 01:24
Around $550 in cost and several hours of time.

That is a bargain for what you have now. I like how you made it your own instead of the common conversion. I would gladly pay $550 for it.

my762buzz
06-05-2011, 03:37
That is a bargain for what you have now. I like how you made it your own instead of the common conversion. I would gladly pay $550 for it.

Thanks I appreciate it.

geofri
06-05-2011, 18:54
Thanks for sharing.

Just got a saiga, and am stalling now on starting it/ordering parts as I keep learning new stuff and seeing new parts I want.