Different kind of home defense ammo question. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Thrillhouse700
01-18-2010, 12:52
I searched "Home Defense" and got TONS of info. Basically the most common suggested HD ammo is speer gold dot for handguns. My friend has also told me this. Basically I have 2 guns, a mossberg 500 and a glock 17 rtf2. I have always kept the mossberg with birdshot for my home defense. My reason for this is I live in a townhome where the homes share common walls.

In the very slim chance i have to use one of my guns for home defense the very last thing I want is to have a round go through a wall. Should I stick with birdshot, and stick my G17 away for a zombie invasion, or can you guys recommend a good round for either the G17 or Mossy that would have less velocity? I do understand that hollow points are meant to expand and slow down considerably when inside a person. What Im worried about is in the heat of battle if a shot is missed.

Like I said the chances of me using one of my weapons for defending my home are slim to none but there is always that chance. With the economy crapping out people get more and more desperate. I don't want to end up a victim. Thanks guys.

MSgt Dotson
01-18-2010, 13:02
There is really no way to have an effective pistol round that will not also fully penetrate sheetrock in the event of a missed shot....

I'd step up the birdshot in the shotgun to at least #4 buck.....; that being said, your current choice of birdshot will hardly draw snickers from anyone who takes a charge to the chest at 5 feet...

mitchshrader
01-18-2010, 13:06
There are glaser rounds that possibly apply to your situation. In no case would I recommend birdshot for HD. #4 buckshot yes, or BB's, or #2 Hevi-Shot turkey loads, but NOT birdshot.

And here's where I argue with most folks. . use the gun you train with most, as your primary defensive weapon. Shoot a lot in low light, shoot with your 'off' hand, get an alarm system or a good dog, and USE YOUR HANDGUN..

unless you've trained formally with a shotgun in the past year, or have a decades worth of informal experience. A better gun doesn't mean you're instantly an expert. IMO your second HD gun should be a copy of your first one, and THEN get a shotgun.

Thrillhouse700
01-18-2010, 13:14
Good info thanks. The shotgun was my first gun. Bought it because all my friends shoot clays. Thats mainly what I use it for. I have a long barrel for clays and a 18.5" for HD.

Without trying to sound like a complete noob, even tho i am when it comes to HD. What is the reasoning that birdshot is not rec. Is it because it will just make the intruder angry and not dead?

gunsablazin
01-18-2010, 13:18
There are glaser rounds that possibly apply to your situation. In no case would I recommend birdshot for HD. #4 buckshot yes, or BB's, or #2 Hevi-Shot turkey loads, but NOT birdshot.

And here's where I argue with most folks. . use the gun you train with most, as your primary defensive weapon. Shoot a lot in low light, shoot with your 'off' hand, get an alarm system or a good dog, and USE YOUR HANDGUN..

unless you've trained formally with a shotgun in the past year, or have a decades worth of informal experience. A better gun doesn't mean you're instantly an expert. IMO your second HD gun should be a copy of your first one, and THEN get a shotgun.

+1, That is some good advice.

BadAndy
01-18-2010, 13:20
Good info thanks. The shotgun was my first gun. Bought it because all my friends shoot clays. Thats mainly what I use it for. I have a long barrel for clays and a 18.5" for HD.

Without trying to sound like a complete noob, even tho i am when it comes to HD. What is the reasoning that birdshot is not rec. Is it because it will just make the intruder angry and not dead?

Bird shot doesn't penetrate enough. It very well could kill someone depending on how close they are and where it lands but I wouldn't want to risk it not causing enough damage to stop them from attacking me.

Thrillhouse700
01-18-2010, 13:34
Ok cool thanks for the info.

fredj338
01-18-2010, 14:04
Birdshot from a cyl bor eriot SG is not very effeective much past contact distances. It wlacks penetration to guarantee a hit to vitals. Use #4 buckshot as the min. It will still pentrate deep enough to hit vitals on even the biggest BG. It will also penetrate less in bldg materials. Anything that will be effective on a BG will penetrate drywall & wood. So, don't miss.

mteagle1
01-18-2010, 14:19
I keep reading the "bird shot is not effective" BS but take a few pieces of sheet rock to the range at see at what distance the shot will no longer penetrate. Also bird shot is a misnomer because of its large range, clay pigeons with #9 or turkey with #2. As a kid I remember shooting different things at different ranges with a shotgun, now I shoot milk jugs to see what different pistol rounds do.

The purpose of home defense is to stop some one from hurting you or your family and not necessarily to kill them, though the trial is easier if they aren't there.

crenca
01-18-2010, 14:35
I keep reading the "bird shot is not effective" BS but take a few pieces of sheet rock.....

Birdshot simply does not have the terminal ballistics to be HD round. Backyard "ballistic tests" not withstanding, you can not find a single legit source who recommends it. A gel test:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=381023

I.Hate.Glocks.
01-18-2010, 14:50
I read on here and other sites that birdshot will not do the job and I bought #4 Buckshot. Told my Dad why I wouldn't use birdshot and he told me about a murder that happened near my home some time back. A guy pulls into his driveway steps out of the car and is shot in the back with birdshot from 20-25 yards, more than likely full choke and the pellets were no larger than 4 birdshot. He fell dead on the spot and my Dad saw his back peppered with little red spots. I say anything will do in home defense.

crenca
01-18-2010, 15:02
I read on here and other sites that birdshot will not do the job and I bought #4 Buckshot. Told my Dad why I wouldn't use birdshot and he told me about a murder that happened near my home some time back. A guy pulls into his driveway steps out of the car and is shot in the back with birdshot from 20-25 yards, more than likely full choke and the pellets were no larger than 4 birdshot. He fell dead on the spot and my Dad saw his back peppered with little red spots. I say anything will do in home defense.

That's just silly. You can find folks who have been killed with air rifles. Does that make it a good HD round? You can find folks who have been killed with slingshots, with small rocks, and by a slap to the face.

"anything will do in home defense" if that is all you have, but why choose something beforehand that has been shown to consistently not penatrate more than 4 or 5 inches?

One can find legit ballistic testing and recomendations here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Thrillhouse700
01-18-2010, 15:24
I like what this guy said about the birdshot.

"Wow, that's not far at all. Imagine a fat guy with a leather jacket on holding a crowbar above his head and 4" isn't much."

So with that said very good info. Ill try to find some #4 buckshot somewhere in california.

I.Hate.Glocks.
01-18-2010, 17:44
I suppose a blast at HD range would only tickle at best with 12ga birdshot. :upeyes: :wavey:

fredj338
01-18-2010, 18:25
I suppose a blast at HD range would only tickle at best with 12ga birdshot. :upeyes: :wavey:
Really, for all of you BS shooters, have you actually taken your cyl bore SG out & shot stuff with it? You'll find that even a 1 1/8"oz #6 load pentrates very shallow. Yes, cover the BG in a leather jacket & hit him @ 21ft & your nice spread of 6" will just get throught the jacket & the surface layer of fat. Now you have either taken the fight out of him or, if he is determined, pissed him off so he takes your SG away from you & beats you to death with it.
Some pics from a backyard test.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/4buck.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/6shot.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/ribs-1.jpg These ribs were shot at 15 feet! You can see no penetration form the 1 1/8oz #6 load (right) from my 870 w/ cyl bore. Yes choke matters. The #4 buck not only went through but broke all the ribs hit. You are welcome to continue to believe you are well protected w/ birdshot in a cyl/riot bore SG, but I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it. If you want less than lethal, go bean bag round. At least it delivers the shot charge in a smaller area increasing trauma & the ability to stop the BG.

bentbiker
01-19-2010, 01:40
I live in a townhome where the homes share common walls.

In the very slim chance i have to use one of my guns for home defense the very last thing I want is to have a round go through a wall.It is my understanding that most townhomes sharing a common wall are required to have a firewall in between -- that usually means concrete block. Do you know for sure that you don't have such a firewall?

fredj338
01-19-2010, 10:11
It is my understanding that most townhomes sharing a common wall are required to have a firewall in between -- that usually means concrete block. Do you know for sure that you don't have such a firewall?

New construction, but older ones can be a single wood wall in most parts of the country.