Why 5" for 45ACP Ammo [Archive] - Glock Talk

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PghJim
01-19-2010, 18:13
It seems like with all other caliber the published data is for a 4" barrel, but for 45 ACP it is for a 5" barrel. I personnally do not know anyone that carries a full size 1911. Both of my 45 ACP guns are 4", a Kimber Compact and an XD45 compact. I always wonder if the bullet will be going fast enough out of a 4" barrel to expand, so I end up carrying +p ammo in them. I can handle the +p, but it would be easier with standard pressure loads. I saw some data that 3" barrels do not do well with standard 45 ACP ammo. but I have never seen anything on a 4" barrel. I assume since they give the velocity in a 5" barrel they are saying that is the barrel length the bullet was designed to be fired from.

I just go a few boxes of Winchester PDX1's and it has a 5" barrel velocity of 920 fps. It does not come in +p, so I wonder how they will perform out of my 4" barrels.

Wil Terry
01-19-2010, 18:29
You can carry a 5" 1911 as easily as anything shorter. It is the butt that is hard to conceal, and that too is easily solved.

Berto
01-19-2010, 18:45
Historically, the only .45auto pistol common was a 1911 with a 5" bbl, so the barrel length of choice was 5".

Today, the general rule is to run 200gr in the 4" and 185gr in the 3.5" for assured expansion....but keep in mind, it's already a .45.:supergrin:

Brass Nazi
01-19-2010, 18:48
You can carry a 5" 1911 as easily as anything shorter. It is the butt that is hard to conceal, and that too is easily solved.

Yep, The only advantage that a shorter slide gives you is a quicker draw. But, you would probably have to be a competent competitor gaming in order to see the difference.


Also due to the lower operating pressure of the ACP and the faster powders that are used the difference in barrel length will not make as big of a difference as it would with other cartridges.

KiloBravo
01-19-2010, 18:52
I personnally do not know anyone that carries a full size 1911. Both of my 45 ACP guns are

You do now. I carry a 5" 1911 everyday rather easily. They are very slim guns and I thick the thickness is what makes a gun tough to conceal, not necessarily the length. Another key is learning to dress around the gun, and not settle for something you don't shoot that well just because it is convenient.

Just my $0.02 and YMMV. :wavey:

CanyonMan
01-19-2010, 19:59
Being a 1911 45acp guy for, well, 40 years at least. I can tell you that 3" 4" 5" all work well with a 230gr bullet. I am a minority on GT, (even with some of my good friends here ;) ). But, I use FMJ 230gr in all sizes of my 45's.

There is nothing to carrying a 5" GOV size 1911. I am 6'0" and 210#'s and no fat. (well maybe a pinch), and can conceal my weapon fine. I can carry a G20 fine as well. It is all in just getting it right for you. I have one of my brothers that is like 5'7", and carrries a full size 1911 45.

That being said, and back to ammo. Yes most all ammo for a 45acp is based on the 5" barrel, that was the common standard for this round (230gr) in the begining and still is. That does NOT mean you cannot use it in the commander and compact size. I have carried in the past a Colt Defender 3" like the G30 in size and barrel length. It did just as well as my 5". It is the wonder and the glory of the 45acp. 830/900fps it does not matter. You obviously pick up a tad vel in a 5" over a 3" barrel. This is true for all calibers and guns pretty much you loose a tad vel with the barrel getting shorter. But again, the beauty and mystery of the 45acp is that it just flat does not seem to make a difference on the business end. It performs.

A lot of people run out and buy all the designer 185gr +p's to get that puppy smokin for them. Ridiculous. That 45 will work just fine with the 230gr. It is not a speed demon, and does not need to be. Out of a 3" barrel, the 230gr FMJ will go through a arm and still get in the trunk of the body and to the vitals (of course anything can go wrong), let the reader understand. But it works just as well as the the 5". Why get a goV size then ? Good question at this point. Simple. You gain about 90fps with the 5" with most factory ammo, and this turns people on!

Yes I like the 5", but YES I carry a 3" at times with NO reservations at all but prefer the original 5" Gov..... Why do I carry the 5" ? I like the better sight plane... That is it. It is not to gain the extra few FPS.. This caliber works well at 3-4-5" with 230gr. Why sacrifice and drop down to a 185 or less gr bullet? makes no sense. Do not fall for the "Short Barrel ammo crap." This is a marketing ploy. Good lands what is'nt a marketing ploy anymore? LOL

I carry a Kimber Pro carry II quite often, in commander size. All with 230gr FMJ.

Do NOT look for nor expect the magic mushroom bullet to show up either. There is not such a bullet in this caliber or any other. Gel test and water jug test do not mean squat as to real world in a human being performance of a bullet. They give a small guide line, and I am reluctant to even give these test that much credit. I am a major critic of jello block and water bottle test that provide a picture perfect mushroom, and tell me nothing.

If someone wants to shoot through milk jugs filled with shredded news paper and water, fine... Put some soaked bones (not dry), and some pork meat or beef and some solid and hollow organs from the gut barrel down at the slaughter house in between those bottles, and a t-shirt flannel shirt, and leather jacket over the front..... Then shoot.

Now we will no longer see the picture perfect mushroom, but a clogged JHP that did not get to much penetration. I admit that in 9mm I am not afraid to use FMJ, but I would suggest JHP's in the 9mm 40cal and 10mm and 357sig, for the mere fact they are very fast light and zippy, although again, I have no fear of their use in FMJ. Not a contridiction of myself, just my philosophy through my "experience." Not through what I read or heard or think, but from what I have done with these calibers and loads in various applications. Some I do not want to talk about, and some out here on the ranch, were through test through hind quarters of beef covered in organs, and real clothes. Not 4 layers of denim. That is BS. (the 4 layers of denim).

Any way. 230gr Gold Dot. 230gr. XTP, and 230gr ball ammo are the ONLY three choices IMO and for "me", in the 45acp. I will say this as well, sounds like a contridiction... In the shorter barrels 4" and especially 3" it is 230gr FMJ or I won't carry the gun. In fact amigo I carry 230gr FMJ in them all. Just saying that if this scares folks, I always suggest the 230gr XTP next, then the 230GR GD. In this order.

Let me say this asell. I do prefer a Round nose flat point in the FMJ to get that little Meplat. That really helps a great deal. More than most think. It is very hard to find in a factory offering, but a load all my carry ammo, and hunting ammo so I do not worry about it.

Over penetration is not a concern with me at all. Missing is.


Don't know that I helped ya in any way. All I got are MY own exeriences and what I have done and for how long and to what who.


God bless ya.
Stay safe





CanyonMan

BMcDonald7
01-19-2010, 20:11
230gr will be fine in a 4" Barrel. I have shot about 12 HST bullets out of my HK45c (like 3.9in) into water jugs, wet pack etc and not had 1 fail to fully expand. Even into 4-layers of denim they performed the same. My dad has the full sized HK45 with a 5" barrel and we shot an HST into water jugs and it expanded to over 1" with 1 petal even breaking off in the last jug. The same goes for 230gr Ranger-T. I would say stay away from the +P as it just gives you more recoil and maybe another inch of penetration, but the standard pressure already penetrates over 12 inches so....

SIGShooter
01-19-2010, 20:18
They make different sized barrels for 1911s other than 5"???

Where the hell is the memo???

I didn't get one!!!

CanyonMan
01-19-2010, 20:23
They make different sized barrels for 1911s other than 5"???

Where the hell is the memo???

I didn't get one!!!



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I hear ya hoss. I am just trying to throw out to this OP some variables...
I do prefer the 5". The others are fun to shoot. But you really nailed it.. Wow they really are making them shorter.. The hem line has went up every time you turn around huh ? ;)



Stay safe Bud.




CanyonMan

fredj338
01-19-2010, 22:32
Yep, The only advantage that a shorter slide gives you is a quicker draw. But, you would probably have to be a competent competitor gaming in order to see the difference.


Also due to the lower operating pressure of the ACP and the faster powders that are used the difference in barrel length will not make as big of a difference as it would with other cartridges.
Well owning, training with & carrying 3", 4" & 5" 1911, there def. is a diff. when it comes to comfortable CCW. The longer slide just likes to dig in when you sit, especially in a car. The lt.wt. Comm is great for carry & pleasent to shoot. My OM is also nice for carry & about the same as the lt.wt. COmm for shooting.
AS to ammo, I have no issue using any std 230grJHP load, even in the OM, but like the Speer 230grGDSB there. For the OM, I do prefer the 185gr WWSTHP or the 200grXTP. Both will still hit 900fps in the short bbl, expand well & easy to get good followup shots. I'll leave the +P ammo for the hairy chested all steel gun shooters. I like to hit what I aim at in a hurry, everytime. There are few bad choices in 45acp, even ball works to some extent, but a bit slippery for me. A 230grLTC would be nice though.

CanyonMan
01-19-2010, 22:59
Well owning, training with & carrying 3", 4" & 5" 1911, there def. is a diff. when it comes to comfortable CCW. The longer slide just likes to dig in when you sit, especially in a car. The lt.wt. Comm is great for carry & pleasent to shoot. My OM is also nice for carry & about the same as the lt.wt. COmm for shooting.
AS to ammo, I have no issue using any std 230grJHP load, even in the OM, but like the Speer 230grGDSB there. For the OM, I do prefer the 185gr WWSTHP or the 200grXTP. Both will still hit 900fps in the short bbl, expand well & easy to get good followup shots. I'll leave the +P ammo for the hairy chested all steel gun shooters. I like to hit what I aim at in a hurry, everytime. There are few bad choices in 45acp, even ball works to some extent, but a bit slippery for me. A 230grLTC would be nice though.



LOL. Agreed.



;)





CM

RMTactical
01-20-2010, 00:07
The stuff I have tested in my 4.25" commander have worked well so far. More tests pending though.

coal
01-20-2010, 01:57
... But, I use FMJ 230gr in all sizes of my 45's. ... Yes most all ammo for a 45acp is based on the 5" barrel, that was the common standard for this round (230gr) in the begining and still is. .... That 45 will work just fine with the 230gr. It is not a speed demon, and does not need to be. ... Do NOT look for nor expect the magic mushroom bullet to show up either. ...

Agreed. The 230gr is all I use, or will given the choice.

Well owning, training with & carrying 3", 4" & 5" 1911, there def. is a diff. when it comes to comfortable CCW. The longer slide just likes to dig in when you sit, especially in a car. ...

Agreed. I can't reasonably CCW a 5" all day, but can with my 4" Compact.

PghJim
01-20-2010, 05:44
Thanks for your opinions, I own many 5" 1911's but due to shoulder issues and hiding the butt, I prefer 4" with a compact frame for CC. From what I am hearing, I should not wory about it.

BuckyP
01-20-2010, 06:15
Thanks for your opinions, I own many 5" 1911's but due to shoulder issues and hiding the butt, I prefer 4" with a compact frame for CC. From what I am hearing, I should not wory about it.

Speer does make ammo specifically designed for shorter barrels, appropriately labeled:

"Gold Dot Short Barrel Personal Protection"

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 07:54
Thanks for your opinions, I own many 5" 1911's but due to shoulder issues and hiding the butt, I prefer 4" with a compact frame for CC. From what I am hearing, I should not wory about it.




Exactly right......... ;)


Good shooting.




CanyonMan

Iceman cHucK
01-20-2010, 11:19
Word for word I agree with everything CandyMan, oh , I meant CanyonMan has said. In addition I like the 230fmjFlatPoint. Hornady makes the bullet, and Dt has a hot load for it.

I like 5" 1911s and have three of them, all steel. I grew up on the full size from my military service, like the balance, sight plane ,velocity, and recoil. I would not hesitate to carry a commander length but prefer the 5".
Tried a couple of shorties (3") years ago and found them to be nothing but trouble and got rid of them. Not reliable!

Now, I'm not hairy chested but my SA 1911 is "springed up" for 45Super. What a hoot. 230GDhp at 1100fps (approx 635fpe)! This is getting max potential from a 45acp and is getting it into the range of a warm 45Colt load. Recoil is stout, but similar to a hot big bore revolver. And the best part is that it still functions 100% with standard 230ball and /or 230+P.

Cineski
01-20-2010, 11:22
This country's thought process seems to be stuck in 1911 formula with the 45 platform. Even the newer polymers with thumb safeties mostly come in the 45 acp or at least started with this caliber. It's just the dogma of the 45 that no other caliber suffers from.

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 11:49
Word for word I agree with everything CandyMan, oh , I meant CanyonMan has said. In addition I like the 230fmjFlatPoint. Hornady makes the bullet, and Dt has a hot load for it.

I like 5" 1911s and have three of them, all steel. I grew up on the full size from my military service, like the balance, sight plane ,velocity, and recoil. I would not hesitate to carry a commander length but prefer the 5".
Tried a couple of shorties (3") years ago and found them to be nothing but trouble and got rid of them. Not reliable!

Now, I'm not hairy chested but my SA 1911 is "springed up" for 45Super. What a hoot. 230GDhp at 1100fps (approx 635fpe)! This is getting max potential from a 45acp and is getting it into the range of a warm 45Colt load. Recoil is stout, but similar to a hot big bore revolver. And the best part is that it still functions 100% with standard 230ball and /or 230+P.



LOL... IC, I'm going to use you for test media if you ain't careful now... LOL

Just kidding Amigo.


Stay safe my friend ! ;)


CanyonMan
AKA CandyMan

BuckyP
01-20-2010, 12:03
CanyonMan
AKA CandyMan


Hehe.

http://www.thecinemasource.com/moviesdb/images/CandymanDVD-300.jpg

Blitzer
01-20-2010, 12:15
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I hear ya hoss. I am just trying to throw out to this OP some variables...
I do prefer the 5". The others are fun to shoot. But you really nailed it.. Wow they really are making them shorter.. The hem line has went up every time you turn around huh ? ;)



Stay safe Bud.




CanyonMan

It was xsent via email, probly ended in your junk mail folder. :shocked:

fredj338
01-20-2010, 12:32
This country's thought process seems to be stuck in 1911 formula with the 45 platform. Even the newer polymers with thumb safeties mostly come in the 45 acp or at least started with this caliber. It's just the dogma of the 45 that no other caliber suffers from.
Let me guess, young guy that likes the soft recoil of the 9mm& the extra rounds to allow yo uto get at leasat one hit on your target huh? It's not dogma. The 45acp is still what every other round is compared to as a fight stopper. Still works & without a lot of specially designed HP to get it to expand, I mean it's already 45caliber. Same goes for the 1911 haters, guys that have never or can't shoot the 1911 platorm. Still works, still outshoots most other platforms in the hands of skilled shooter. I imagine the 1911 & 45acp will be around as long as there are still cartrdige firng platforms.:upeyes: Others are good, but few better.

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 12:51
It was xsent via email, probly ended in your junk mail folder. :shocked:


Must cofess the highest degee of ignorance on this on man... Over my head here. ;)




CM

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 12:55
Let me guess, young guy that likes the soft recoil of the 9mm& the extra rounds to allow yo uto get at leasat one hit on your target huh? It's not dogma. The 45acp is still what every other round is compared to as a fight stopper. Still works & without a lot of specially designed HP to get it to expand, I mean it's already 45caliber. Same goes for the 1911 haters, guys that have never or can't shoot the 1911 platorm. Still works, still outshoots most other platforms in the hands of skilled shooter. I imagine the 1911 & 45acp will be around as long as there are still cartrdige firng platforms.:upeyes: Others are good, but few better.


Well Said !


CanyonMan
:patriot:

beforeobamabans
01-20-2010, 12:56
I'll leave the +P ammo for the hairy chested all steel gun
Well, I will admit to some hair on my chest, and I shoot a G30 not a steel 1911, but I sure feel good about that 500 round case of Winchester Ranger-T 230+p sitting in my garage.

Cineski
01-20-2010, 13:02
Let me guess, old fart who knows it all that's stuck in yesteryear? Do we really need to have this type of rhetoric on here? Do you need to go look up the word rhetoric? Okay, we done now? :steamed:

If you read my post again, I never said anything detrimental of your precious 45. I shot it for 6 years before going a full diet of 9 and 10mm. I'm talking about platforms for the 45, whatever they may be, seems to pattern itself after the 1911 more than any other caliber. I'm not saying its good or bad, but it is the 1911 dogma that grips the US gun industry just like almost every gun mag has a constant supply of 1911's on the cover. I'm not saying good or bad either way, just what I notice.

Let me guess, young guy that likes the soft recoil of the 9mm& the extra rounds to allow yo uto get at leasat one hit on your target huh? It's not dogma. The 45acp is still what every other round is compared to as a fight stopper. Still works & without a lot of specially designed HP to get it to expand, I mean it's already 45caliber. Same goes for the 1911 haters, guys that have never or can't shoot the 1911 platorm. Still works, still outshoots most other platforms in the hands of skilled shooter. I imagine the 1911 & 45acp will be around as long as there are still cartrdige firng platforms.:upeyes: Others are good, but few better.

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 13:34
Let me guess, old fart who knows it all that's stuck in yesteryear? Do we really need to have this type of rhetoric on here? Do you need to go look up the word rhetoric? Okay, we done now? :steamed:

If you read my post again, I never said anything detrimental of your precious 45. I shot it for 6 years before going a full diet of 9 and 10mm. I'm talking about platforms for the 45, whatever they may be, seems to pattern itself after the 1911 more than any other caliber. I'm not saying its good or bad, but it is the 1911 dogma that grips the US gun industry just like almost every gun mag has a constant supply of 1911's on the cover. I'm not saying good or bad either way, just what I notice.




Let me guess. Young fart head, stuck in a dream world of fancy calibers and magic bullets from Hollywood shows where you see guns that look like buck rogers death ray guns... A condo dweller who has never had 15 minutes of experience in the real world with a gun, been shot, or shot at!

Fred has forgotten more than you'll ever know smart ***, because you obviously do not have a ear to hear, or the humility it takes to learn, so you attack like a shark out of your darkness of ignorance about a platform you obviously no nothing about.


Fred does NOT need my defence, but when the young and ignorant go after their elders that have spent a life time out there doing it every day, shooting tons of lead, and running test till their blue in the face, and have some real world truth and wisdom to share, I call that ignorance not to listen.

You want to rant, do it on me.... You are one rude dude jack. You got a face I always like to shake hands with.....


I cannot tolerate rude behaviour in a man.


So, Why don't you climb down so you can see, and maybe you'll learn something.




CanyonMan

Cineski
01-20-2010, 13:41
This is hilarious. The guy came after me with angry accusations over something he took completely out of context with what I said and I defended myself with the same tone as he and I'm the bad guy despite asking to get back to a normal tone. And CanyonMan reacts with gasoline on the fire. Nice. My response to his tone with an equally harsh tone was nothing more than to show the rediculousness of yelling at people on a forum. CanyonMan, you have anger and I have no interest or intention of getting into a shouting match with someone with your state of mind. I'm quite sure Fred is a nice standup guy with loads of experience but this does not put him out of the realm of any criticism from any individual anywhere. The fact that you're so narrow minded and spiteful with your tone is sad. It's a flipping forum. Get over yourself.

Can we get this back on topic and friendly now? Or is that question deepening my not-self induced rut?

Cineski
01-20-2010, 13:47
Deleted for tact purposes.

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 13:49
This is hilarious. The guy came after me with angry accusations over something he took completely out of context with what I said and I defended myself with the same tone as he and I'm the bad guy despite asking to get back to a normal tone. And CanyonMan reacts with gasoline on the fire. Nice. My response to his tone with an equally harsh tone was nothing more than to show the rediculousness of yelling at people on a forum. CanyonMan, you have anger and I have no interest or intention of getting into a shouting match with someone with your state of mind. I'm quite sure Fred is a nice standup guy with loads of experience but this does not put him within the realm of any criticism from any individual anywhere. The fact that you're so narrow minded and spiteful with your tone is sad. It's a flipping forum. Get over yourself.

Can we get this back on topic and friendly now? Or is that question deepening my not-self induced rut?




BS dude. You come on this man with insults, and hit him like a freight train. Me angry, mad ? I did not put the angry flaming red faced smilie on my post. to the contrary. I am calm as hell. I just do not like rude behaviour to one's elders, and especially when they know a thing or two...

Tell ya what.. Your right. Let's all get back on track. I think perhaps we all got some what riled, but I have personally not been scared, or angered, just pissed off at the rudeness to a man who knows what the heck he is doing and talking about....

So, that being said.. let's all take a little blame, and as you said, carry on, back on track.



CanyonMan

Zombie Steve
01-20-2010, 13:56
The .45acp data usually comes from a 5" barrel because that's the way Saint Browning made it so. :supergrin:






<--- another full size 1911 carrying fella that tends to like the 230 grainers.







And guys, let's stop the name calling. I resemble too many of these remarks. :embarassed:

fredj338
01-20-2010, 14:33
This country's thought process seems to be stuck in 1911 formula with the 45 platform. Even the newer polymers with thumb safeties mostly come in the 45 acp or at least started with this caliber. It's just the dogma of the 45 that no other caliber suffers from.
Really, this is just a statement & not some slanted opinion attacking both the 1911 & 45acp? So I was right, you are a 20 soemthing that saw a few movies & think the Glcok rocks & the 9mm is "Awesome" because yo uhave 15rds to hit something once or twice. Yeah, that is how I read it & I am probably not far off. No one brought up dogma (negative conotation) but you. If calling you a young guy that likes soft recoiling 9mm makes you feel "attacked" then you need to grow thicker skin my friend. There was no anger or tone, other than you not really knowing what you're opining about. You are the one that came back irritated & calling me an old fart. i may be older, yes over 50, but on my best day, I am a better man than that.

Glolt20-91
01-20-2010, 18:10
Let me guess, old fart who knows it all that's stuck in yesteryear? Do we really need to have this type of rhetoric on here? Do you need to go look up the word rhetoric? Okay, we done now? :steamed:

If you read my post again, I never said anything detrimental of your precious 45. I shot it for 6 years before going a full diet of 9 and 10mm. I'm talking about platforms for the 45, whatever they may be, seems to pattern itself after the 1911 more than any other caliber. I'm not saying its good or bad, but it is the 1911 dogma that grips the US gun industry just like almost every gun mag has a constant supply of 1911's on the cover. I'm not saying good or bad either way, just what I notice.

Those who have been invited to share a campfire and BBQ typically get to shoot . . .

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/At%20the%20range/Para38Super004.jpg

5" barrels CCW IWB very well for me.

Oh, BTW, you don't need worry yourself about getting any mesquite smoke in your eyes. :wavey:

Bob :cowboy:

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 18:20
those who have been invited to share a campfire and bbq typically get to shoot . . .

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o144/aztrekker/at%20the%20range/para38super004.jpg

5" barrels ccw iwb very well for me.

oh, btw, you don't need worry yourself about getting any mesquite smoke in your eyes. :wavey:

Bob :cowboy:



;)



cm

PghJim
01-20-2010, 18:42
Thanks again everyone, I did not mean to start any arguements. I will now feel comfortable shooting regular pressure 230gr bullets out of my 4" guns. I just wish they (ammo manufacturers) should start testing and publishing velocities for 4" barrels. I understand a lot of people carry full size guns, but the 4" would be right in the middle of the barrel range.

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 18:53
Thanks again everyone, I did not mean to start any arguements. I will now feel comfortable shooting regular pressure 230gr bullets out of my 4" guns. I just wish they (ammo manufacturers) should start testing and publishing velocities for 4" barrels. I understand a lot of people carry full size guns, but the 4" would be right in the middle of the barrel range.


Shoot that 230gr man and do not look back it will be fine !


PS... YOU did NOT start any arguements. Ignorance starts them. Your fine.


Good shooting.



CanyonMan

Berto
01-20-2010, 20:06
I really see no benefit to the short 1911's, always liked the 5".
Seen too many of the chopped guns have problems working right...and I like the 230gr boolit as well.

<--------carries a 5" 1911 IWB.

Glolt20-91
01-20-2010, 20:16
Shoot that 230gr man and do not look back it will be fine !

Good shooting.

CanyonMan

The 125gr is pretty hot too. :whistling:

Have you loaded the 255gr Keith style bullet?

Bob :cowboy:

SIGShooter
01-20-2010, 20:33
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I hear ya hoss. I am just trying to throw out to this OP some variables...
I do prefer the 5". The others are fun to shoot. But you really nailed it.. Wow they really are making them shorter.. The hem line has went up every time you turn around huh ? ;)



Stay safe Bud.




CanyonMan


You'd be lucky to even see a hem line now' a days.

I am currently ordering a Les Baer Stinger. Just got off the phone with my dealer about 30 minutes ago.

I love the 5" 1911s. No doubt about it. It is a platform that everyone goes to when designing a 45. Hell, it's one of the oldest semi auto platforms still in production today. Why? Because it works!

There's just something about that Stinger...Maybe because it's a 1911...

CanyonMan
01-20-2010, 21:24
You'd be lucky to even see a hem line now' a days.

I am currently ordering a Les Baer Stinger. Just got off the phone with my dealer about 30 minutes ago.

I love the 5" 1911s. No doubt about it. It is a platform that everyone goes to when designing a 45. Hell, it's one of the oldest semi auto platforms still in production today. Why? Because it works!

There's just something about that Stinger...Maybe because it's a 1911...




My friend I could not agree with you more. although I told the OP i carry a 3" 4" 5" at times and a commander at times. My POINT was to help him, I guess, understnd that the 230gr will work fine in any of those barrel lengths. I have to do this on occasion because of dress. BUt, other than sunday go to meetin..... I carry a full 5" gov model in colt, some times a Kimber, but a prefer Colt.

Les Baer Stinger I am not familiar with , but am very familiar with Les Baer, and Wilson combat as well. I have a smith here in Texas. Ken Crawley http://www.crawleycustom.com/index.php Who is a good friend of mine who will take the Caspian frame etc and build up your gun from there the way you want it... Man he is a artist to the max...

I like all the models we are talking about here, and do prefer the 5". I do mess around with the commander length when the situation calls for it, but find NO problem when I am in a town, to all day carry a 5'" gov. And would rather do so, with 230gr FMJ's.

I would like to see a pic of the LB your talking about. Sounds interesting.
Get me some pics if you can man...

Your right. The 5" platform works ! Has for me in the past, and not so distant past, and I trust my life to it daily. I don't give a rats behind wht most say to me, I carry 230GR FMJ's and they have saved my bacon in situations I DO NOT want to talk about, and don't, and I have no problem with them. Yes, the 5" 1911 45acp is a he!! of a gun. No doubt. Good luck with the LB... I want pics man. ;)



Good shooting bud
send me some pics when you can




CanyonMan

fredj338
01-20-2010, 22:17
Thanks again everyone, I did not mean to start any arguements. I will now feel comfortable shooting regular pressure 230gr bullets out of my 4" guns. I just wish they (ammo manufacturers) should start testing and publishing velocities for 4" barrels. I understand a lot of people carry full size guns, but the 4" would be right in the middle of the barrel range.

I've gotten decent expansion w/ the 230grRGS in my OM @ only 770fps. Penetration suffers a bit when vel. drops off that much, why I like the 200grXTP in the little OM. BTW, it's as relaible as any 1911 I have ever fired. Change the recoil spring every 15oords or so & she just runs & runs w/ anything from 200grLSWC target stuff to the hot 185grRGS+P.

Zombie Steve
01-20-2010, 22:36
Thanks again everyone, I did not mean to start any arguements. I will now feel comfortable shooting regular pressure 230gr bullets out of my 4" guns. I just wish they (ammo manufacturers) should start testing and publishing velocities for 4" barrels. I understand a lot of people carry full size guns, but the 4" would be right in the middle of the barrel range.

If you start reloading, this will drive you more and more nuts. You're dealing with a 4" barrel, and the test data is from a 7-1/2". Sometimes it can make you a little worried about what you just ran through your gun. Multiple data sources usually help, but I feel your pain.


Just a side note, I wonder how much of it is to make their published numbers look better, be it pistol, rifle, reloading data...

Cineski
01-21-2010, 00:56
Apologies if my response to yours was too much. I've always found assumptions and crack judgements about people you've never met on a forum to be a waste of time and you've proven this theory of mine to be correct.

Really, this is just a statement & not some slanted opinion attacking both the 1911 & 45acp? So I was right, you are a 20 soemthing that saw a few movies & think the Glcok rocks & the 9mm is "Awesome" because yo uhave 15rds to hit something once or twice. Yeah, that is how I read it & I am probably not far off. No one brought up dogma (negative conotation) but you. If calling you a young guy that likes soft recoiling 9mm makes you feel "attacked" then you need to grow thicker skin my friend. There was no anger or tone, other than you not really knowing what you're opining about. You are the one that came back irritated & calling me an old fart. i may be older, yes over 50, but on my best day, I am a better man than that.

Brucev
01-21-2010, 07:41
"It seems like with all other caliber the published data is for a 4" barrel, but for 45 ACP it is for a 5" barrel. I personnally do not know anyone that carries a full size 1911. Both of my 45 ACP guns are 4", a Kimber Compact and an XD45 compact. I always wonder if the bullet will be going fast enough out of a 4" barrel to expand, so I end up carrying +p ammo in them. I can handle the +p, but it would be easier with standard pressure loads. I saw some data that 3" barrels do not do well with standard 45 ACP ammo. but I have never seen anything on a 4" barrel. I assume since they give the velocity in a 5" barrel they are saying that is the barrel length the bullet was designed to be fired from.

I just go a few boxes of Winchester PDX1's and it has a 5" barrel velocity of 920 fps. It does not come in +p, so I wonder how they will perform out of my 4" barrels."

"Why 5" for 45ACP ammo?" Because J.M Browning was a genius. He developed the .45ACP to provide and excellent level of ballistic effectiveness from a pistol of highly portable size and weight. That it has so successfully been adapted to use in smaller sized pistols is a testimony to both the effectiveness of the caliber as well as the creativity of firearms designers and producers.

The Winchester PDX1 that you bought gives a stated velocity of 920 from a 5" barrel. You can reasonably expect a velocity loss of possibly 40-50 fps in going to a 4" barrel. Given the distances at which pistols are typically used, there should not be any problems with this load performing fully up to your expectations.

fredj338
01-21-2010, 10:23
"It seems like with all other caliber the published data is for a 4" barrel, but for 45 ACP it is for a 5" barrel. I personnally do not know anyone that carries a full size 1911. Both of my 45 ACP guns are 4", a Kimber Compact and an XD45 compact. I always wonder if the bullet will be going fast enough out of a 4" barrel to expand, so I end up carrying +p ammo in them. I can handle the +p, but it would be easier with standard pressure loads. I saw some data that 3" barrels do not do well with standard 45 ACP ammo. but I have never seen anything on a 4" barrel. I assume since they give the velocity in a 5" barrel they are saying that is the barrel length the bullet was designed to be fired from.

I just go a few boxes of Winchester PDX1's and it has a 5" barrel velocity of 920 fps. It does not come in +p, so I wonder how they will perform out of my 4" barrels."

"Why 5" for 45ACP ammo?" Because J.M Browning was a genius. He developed the .45ACP to provide and excellent level of ballistic effectiveness from a pistol of highly portable size and weight. That it has so successfully been adapted to use in smaller sized pistols is a testimony to both the effectiveness of the caliber as well as the creativity of firearms designers and producers.

The Winchester PDX1 that you bought gives a stated velocity of 920 from a 5" barrel. You can reasonably expect a velocity loss of possibly 40-50 fps in going to a 4" barrel. Given the distances at which pistols are typically used, there should not be any problems with this load performing fully up to your expectations.

There are more 5" 45acp out there than shorter bbls, far more. So the factory sticks w/ what it has done before micro 45s hit the market. The good thing about the larger bore is it doesn't bleed vel as fast as smaller bores. 230grRGS in my 5"1911 goes about 820fps, in my short OM, 770fps, not much diff, but still enough w/ the wrong bullet to cause problems. FOrtuantely, todays bullets work across a pretty broad range of vel. I do NOT carry +P ammo in my lt.w.t Comm, too much recoil for fast followup shots & the std. vel. 230gr JHP expand fine. If you want more vel. go to a 200grXTP or 185grRGS.

Ak.Hiker
01-21-2010, 20:32
Life must have been simple for our Grandfathers when they went to the hardware store to buy ammo. It really is a wonder that they were able to hunt, take care of farm chores and defend themselves without all of the ammo choices we now have.

CanyonMan
01-21-2010, 20:46
Life must have been simple for our Grandfathers when they went to the hardware store to buy ammo. It really is a wonder that they were able to hunt, take care of farm chores and defend themselves without all of the ammo choices we now have.



Amen...... ;)




CM

SIGShooter
01-21-2010, 20:55
My friend I could not agree with you more. although I told the OP i carry a 3" 4" 5" at times and a commander at times. My POINT was to help him, I guess, understnd that the 230gr will work fine in any of those barrel lengths. I have to do this on occasion because of dress. BUt, other than sunday go to meetin..... I carry a full 5" gov model in colt, some times a Kimber, but a prefer Colt.

Les Baer Stinger I am not familiar with , but am very familiar with Les Baer, and Wilson combat as well. I have a smith here in Texas. Ken Crawley http://www.crawleycustom.com/index.php Who is a good friend of mine who will take the Caspian frame etc and build up your gun from there the way you want it... Man he is a artist to the max...

I like all the models we are talking about here, and do prefer the 5". I do mess around with the commander length when the situation calls for it, but find NO problem when I am in a town, to all day carry a 5'" gov. And would rather do so, with 230gr FMJ's.

I would like to see a pic of the LB your talking about. Sounds interesting.
Get me some pics if you can man...

Your right. The 5" platform works ! Has for me in the past, and not so distant past, and I trust my life to it daily. I don't give a rats behind wht most say to me, I carry 230GR FMJ's and they have saved my bacon in situations I DO NOT want to talk about, and don't, and I have no problem with them. Yes, the 5" 1911 45acp is a he!! of a gun. No doubt. Good luck with the LB... I want pics man. ;)



Good shooting bud
send me some pics when you can




CanyonMan


Les Baer Stinger is a Commander Slide with an Officer Lower.

It'll be blue with night sights and a solid trigger.

I'll post pictures in the 1911 section when I get it. About 12 weeks from now.

SIGShooter
01-21-2010, 20:58
Life must have been simple for our Grandfathers when they went to the hardware store to buy ammo. It really is a wonder that they were able to hunt, take care of farm chores and defend themselves without all of the ammo choices we now have.


This post and this post only should be a sticky!!!

Damn straight brother!!!

Gunnut 45/454
01-21-2010, 23:13
CanyonMan
I was going to jump all over this thread ,but you said it all! I carry a P345 with 200gr XTPs and I don't worry about them doing what is needed when used! The BG is going to have one very bad day!:rofl:

CanyonMan
01-23-2010, 16:38
This post and this post only should be a sticky!!!

Damn straight brother!!!



Amen !




CM

CanyonMan
01-23-2010, 16:39
CanyonMan
I was going to jump all over this thread ,but you said it all! I carry a P345 with 200gr XTPs and I don't worry about them doing what is needed when used! The BG is going to have one very bad day!:rofl:


That is the idea. ;)



Stay safe



CM

PghJim
01-23-2010, 21:01
Here is something I did last night with my 4" XD45 Compact that gave me even more confidence in the 230 grain bullet out of a 4" barrel. It is not a perfect test but it did show me something.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14606449#post14606449

ssilvestro
01-24-2010, 02:32
Really, this is just a statement & not some slanted opinion attacking both the 1911 & 45acp? So I was right, you are a 20 soemthing that saw a few movies & think the Glcok rocks & the 9mm is "Awesome" because yo uhave 15rds to hit something once or twice. Yeah, that is how I read it & I am probably not far off. No one brought up dogma (negative conotation) but you. If calling you a young guy that likes soft recoiling 9mm makes you feel "attacked" then you need to grow thicker skin my friend. There was no anger or tone, other than you not really knowing what you're opining about. You are the one that came back irritated & calling me an old fart. i may be older, yes over 50, but on my best day, I am a better man than that.

Pfft, that's what all you kids with your 1911's think! You need your "larger diameter" and your "8 rounds" to stop a bad guy, after maybe landing a hit or two. Give us old timers (who can actually shoot straight) six shots in our trusty .38's!!

Kids these days, geez! :supergrin:

fredj338
01-24-2010, 13:33
Pfft, that's what all you kids with your 1911's think! You need your "larger diameter" and your "8 rounds" to stop a bad guy, after maybe landing a hit or two. Give us old timers (who can actually shoot straight) six shots in our trusty .38's!!

Kids these days, geez! :supergrin:
I've been known to pack a 5-6shot snub 357mag as well (w/ extra reload though). I've seen countless expamples of the high cap spray & pray crowd for the last 30yrs. Nothing beats good hits & good hits w/ more powerfull rounds end a fight sooner. Things havent' changed much since the 45acp 1st became popular as a fight stopper. The younger generation likes to think mo rounds is mo better, that has been going on since S&W brought oput the M59. They just miss faster though. Only good hits count & the 1911 is probably one of the easiest to get good hits with for most shooters.